Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 7:55 am, John M. Harris Jr wrote: Correcting what I said above, perhaps it'd be best to use what Lennart mentions as "mode 1" of systemd-resolved, such that /etc/resolv.conf is read, while using nss-resolve. If you want to do that, you can. You just need to make

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Florian Weimer
* Lennart Poettering: > On Do, 16.04.20 12:49, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > >> As explained elsewhere, NetworkManager-openvpn extracts the search list >> from OpenVPN parameters, passes that to NetworkManager, which I expect >> will pass ito to systemd-resolved in the future. >>

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Thursday, April 16, 2020 7:41:07 AM MST John M. Harris Jr wrote: > Really, it may be best to go about this in the same way as Ubuntu, with > nss- dns instead of nss-resolve.. Editing /etc/resolv.conf is still > commonly done on Fedora, especially on servers. In fact, I never knew that >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Daniel Walsh
On 4/15/20 17:06, James Cassell wrote: > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020, at 1:27 PM, Daniel Walsh wrote: >> On 4/15/20 10:07, Lennart Poettering wrote: >>> On Di, 14.04.20 15:57, James Cassell (fedoraproj...@cyberpear.com) wrote: >>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020, at 3:23 PM, Ben Cotton wrote: >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 6:34:56 AM MST Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Di, 14.04.20 12:57, Kevin Fenzi (ke...@scrye.com) wrote: > > > > Can you expand on what that means? > > > > > > > > Does it mean: > > > > > > > > a) systemd-resolved will use DNS over TLS if it detects that > > the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 4:18 pm, Tomas Mraz wrote: Trusted for what? I would expect corporate VPNs doing such tricks to monitor the user's internet traffic. Which does not mean the user is fully screwed with such VPN if he for example uses hardcoded configuration of a caching nameserver. In

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 12:23:27 PM MST Ben Cotton wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/systemd-resolved > > == Summary == > > Enable systemd-resolved by default. glibc will perform name resolution > using nss-resolve rather than nss-dns. > > == Owner == > * Name:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Florian Weimer
* Lennart Poettering: > On Do, 16.04.20 12:53, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > >> > Meh. I mean /etc/resolv.conf here, of course, not /etc/nsswitch.conf. >> >> So if /etc/resolv.conf comes from somewhere else, then nss_resolve will >> still forward queries to the daemon, which

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Tomas Mraz
On Wed, 2020-04-15 at 10:02 -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:38 pm, Florian Weimer > wrote: > > Not sure if that's compatible with the new split DNS model because > > VPN1 > > could simply start pushing longer names in the scope of VPN2, thus > > hijacking internal

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Do, 16.04.20 12:53, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > > Meh. I mean /etc/resolv.conf here, of course, not /etc/nsswitch.conf. > > So if /etc/resolv.conf comes from somewhere else, then nss_resolve will > still forward queries to the daemon, which contacts the upstream server > on

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Do, 16.04.20 15:26, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > If /etc/resolv.conf is a regular file, will systemd-resolved deactivate > itself? Or use the name server configuration found there instead? It will use it. It's smart on this: if it finds a symlink there that points to one of

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Do, 16.04.20 12:46, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > * Lennart Poettering: > > > Long story short: if you experienced issues with DNSSEC on with > > resolved today, then be assured that with DNSSEC off things are much > > much better, and that's how we'd ship it in Fedora if it

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread James Cassell
On Thu, Apr 16, 2020, at 9:26 AM, Florian Weimer wrote: > * Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek: > > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 12:53:48PM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote: > >> * Lennart Poettering: > >> > >> > On Mi, 15.04.20 16:30, Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Mi,

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Do, 16.04.20 12:49, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > As explained elsewhere, NetworkManager-openvpn extracts the search list > from OpenVPN parameters, passes that to NetworkManager, which I expect > will pass ito to systemd-resolved in the future. > > >> Ugh. That will have to be

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Florian Weimer
* Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek: > On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 12:53:48PM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote: >> * Lennart Poettering: >> >> > On Mi, 15.04.20 16:30, Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) wrote: >> > >> >> On Mi, 15.04.20 15:50, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: >> >> >> >> > *

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 13:27, Daniel J Walsh (dwa...@redhat.com) wrote: > > If a container manager copies in /etc/resolv.conf from the host into > > the container on container *start*, it might be wise to copy in > > /run/systemd/resolve/resolv.conf instead of /etc/resolv.conf, if it > > exists. That

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 07:10, Pavel Raiskup (prais...@redhat.com) wrote: > On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 9:23:27 PM CEST Ben Cotton wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/systemd-resolved > > > > == Summary == > > > > Enable systemd-resolved by default. ... > > We had serious headaches because

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 12:53:48PM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote: > * Lennart Poettering: > > > On Mi, 15.04.20 16:30, Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) wrote: > > > >> On Mi, 15.04.20 15:50, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > >> > >> > * Lennart Poettering: > >> > > >> > > 1. If

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Tom Hughes via devel
On 16/04/2020 11:46, Florian Weimer wrote: * Lennart Poettering: Long story short: if you experienced issues with DNSSEC on with resolved today, then be assured that with DNSSEC off things are much much better, and that's how we'd ship it in Fedora if it becomes the default. Would you please

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Florian Weimer
* Lennart Poettering: > On Mi, 15.04.20 16:30, Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) wrote: > >> On Mi, 15.04.20 15:50, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: >> >> > * Lennart Poettering: >> > >> > > 1. If /etc/resolv.conf is a regular file, resolved will *consume* it >> > >for DNS

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Florian Weimer
* Michael Catanzaro: > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 10:48 am, Florian Weimer > wrote: >> The second Kubernetes issue I worry about [1] is that the CoreDNS name >> server is installed first, and it does additional rule-based >> processing >> for in-cluster names. External DNS servers are listed

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-16 Thread Florian Weimer
* Lennart Poettering: > Long story short: if you experienced issues with DNSSEC on with > resolved today, then be assured that with DNSSEC off things are much > much better, and that's how we'd ship it in Fedora if it becomes the > default. Would you please clarify what switching DNSSEC off

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread James Cassell
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020, at 1:27 PM, Daniel Walsh wrote: > On 4/15/20 10:07, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > On Di, 14.04.20 15:57, James Cassell (fedoraproj...@cyberpear.com) wrote: > > > >> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020, at 3:23 PM, Ben Cotton wrote: > >>>

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:05:40PM -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 4:33 pm, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > wrote: > >https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/15437 > > To change this for existing Fedora systems is going to require some > scriptlet hackery... somewhere

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread stan via devel
On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:46:02 +0200 Lennart Poettering wrote: > resolved has three modes: [Snipped for brevity.] Thanks. Saved for future reference. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Daniel Walsh
On 4/15/20 10:07, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Di, 14.04.20 15:57, James Cassell (fedoraproj...@cyberpear.com) wrote: > >> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020, at 3:23 PM, Ben Cotton wrote: >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/systemd-resolved >>> >>> == Summary == >>> >>> Enable systemd-resolved by

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 4:33 pm, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/15437 To change this for existing Fedora systems is going to require some scriptlet hackery... somewhere (systemd package, maybe?). ___

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 10:02:17AM -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 4:12 pm, Lennart Poettering > wrote: > >The suggested line in nsswitch.conf is: > > > >hosts: files mymachines resolve [!UNAVAIL=return] dns myhostname > > My plan is to use: > > hosts: files

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 10:48, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > > As I understand the terminology the "stub resolver" in systemd-resolved > > refers to the thing that listens on 127.0.0.53 and that won't do > > anything clever with single label queries because it will expect > > it is

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Florian Weimer
* Michael Catanzaro: > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 9:36 am, Florian Weimer > wrote: >> And we really need to move /etc/nsswitch.conf out of glibc. We spend >> some time on maintaining that file, when in fact it doesn't matter >> because too many scriptlets and programs patch it. > > Moving it to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Florian Weimer
* Lennart Poettering: > On Mi, 15.04.20 10:09, Michael Catanzaro (mcatanz...@gnome.org) wrote: > >> You're right that continuing to use nss-dns would avoid any such problems >> while maintaining the other benefits of systemd-resolved. That could be a >> fallback plan if needed. > > So, it is my

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 10:53, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > Thanks. Does this mean that no search list processing happens, for > neither single-label names (per for the first paragraph), nor for > multi-label names (per the routing description)? Or is this process > described in some

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 5:06 pm, Lennart Poettering wrote: If RH VPN configures "redhat.com" as search domain for their VPN then this means all redhat.com traffic is automatically pulled over to the VPN and will not be routed elsewhere anymore. In particular: current behavior is that

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 09:29, Fedora Development ML (devel@lists.fedoraproject.org) wrote: > > Most Kubernetes/OKD clusters assume that both single-label and > > multi-label query names are forwarded over DNS (contrary to ICANN > > recommendations), and that DNS servers are processed in listed order

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 10:09, Michael Catanzaro (mcatanz...@gnome.org) wrote: > You're right that continuing to use nss-dns would avoid any such problems > while maintaining the other benefits of systemd-resolved. That could be a > fallback plan if needed. So, it is my understanding that containers as

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 10:09 am, Michael Catanzaro wrote: Hm, it sounds like this is the main outstanding issue from this discussion. It is beyond my expertise. I guess we'll need a bug report where the relevant experts can figure out whether we need to change Kubernetes or systemd here.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 10:08 am, Florian Weimer wrote: * Ben Cotton: Enable systemd-resolved by default. glibc will perform name resolution using nss-resolve rather than nss-dns. Is this intended for Fedora Server and others as well, or just Workstation? I assume it's for everywhere.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 10:02, Michael Catanzaro (mcatanz...@gnome.org) wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 9:36 am, Florian Weimer wrote: > > And we really need to move /etc/nsswitch.conf out of glibc. We spend > > some time on maintaining that file, when in fact it doesn't matter > > because too many

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 10:08, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > > systemd-resolved has been enabled by default in Ubuntu since Ubuntu > > 16.10, but please note we are doing this differently than Ubuntu has. > > Ubuntu does not use nss-resolve. Instead, Ubuntu uses the traditional > > nss-dns

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 10:48 am, Florian Weimer wrote: The second Kubernetes issue I worry about [1] is that the CoreDNS name server is installed first, and it does additional rule-based processing for in-cluster names. External DNS servers are listed later. Parallel queries and random

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 4:12 pm, Lennart Poettering wrote: The suggested line in nsswitch.conf is: hosts: files mymachines resolve [!UNAVAIL=return] dns myhostname My plan is to use: hosts: files resolve [!UNAVAIL=return] mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns myhostname Apparently

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:38 pm, Florian Weimer wrote: Not sure if that's compatible with the new split DNS model because VPN1 could simply start pushing longer names in the scope of VPN2, thus hijacking internal traffic there (and this sort of hijacking is exactly what a DNS sinkhole

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 9:36 am, Florian Weimer wrote: And we really need to move /etc/nsswitch.conf out of glibc. We spend some time on maintaining that file, when in fact it doesn't matter because too many scriptlets and programs patch it. Moving it to authselect might be sensible. BTW:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 16:30, Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) wrote: > On Mi, 15.04.20 15:50, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > > > * Lennart Poettering: > > > > > 1. If /etc/resolv.conf is a regular file, resolved will *consume* it > > >for DNS configuration, and never change

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 16:27, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > > That said, resolved has a bus API for resolving hosts too, which gives > > a bit richer an API to do things, instead of using > > gethostbyname(). resolved parses and caches /etc/hosts for that > > natively, so that we can

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 15:50, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > * Lennart Poettering: > > > 1. If /etc/resolv.conf is a regular file, resolved will *consume* it > >for DNS configuration, and never change it or modify it or replace > >it. If this mode is selected arbitrary other

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 09:01, Daniel J Walsh (dwa...@redhat.com) wrote: > > I didn't consider cases where systemd is not running because Fedora > > hasn't supported booting without systemd in about a decade. But I > > guess the problem here is for containers where systemd is not running > > inside the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Florian Weimer
* Lennart Poettering: > On Mi, 15.04.20 09:36, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > >> * Michael Catanzaro: >> >> > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 8:48 pm, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek >> > wrote: >> >> I guess the lesson here is the nsswitch.conf change should be >> >> clarified in the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 09:36, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > * Michael Catanzaro: > > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 8:48 pm, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > > wrote: > >> I guess the lesson here is the nsswitch.conf change should be > >> clarified in the proposal. > > > > OK, I've just added it

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Di, 14.04.20 15:57, James Cassell (fedoraproj...@cyberpear.com) wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020, at 3:23 PM, Ben Cotton wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/systemd-resolved > > > > == Summary == > > > > Enable systemd-resolved by default. glibc will perform name resolution > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 15.04.20 11:14, Fedora Development ML (devel@lists.fedoraproject.org) wrote: > On 14.04.2020 21:23, Ben Cotton wrote: > > Enable systemd-resolved by default. glibc will perform name resolution > > using nss-resolve rather than nss-dns. > > I've tested systemd-resolved on my laptop for a

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Florian Weimer
* Lennart Poettering: > 1. If /etc/resolv.conf is a regular file, resolved will *consume* it >for DNS configuration, and never change it or modify it or replace >it. If this mode is selected arbitrary other programs that do DNS >will talk directly to the provided DNS servers, and

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Di, 14.04.20 15:52, Fedora Development ML (devel@lists.fedoraproject.org) wrote: > On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:18:02 -0500 > Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > > NetworkManager has three DNS backends: default (nss-dns, what we use > > currently), dnsmasq, and systemd-resolved. The default backend just

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Di, 14.04.20 12:57, Kevin Fenzi (ke...@scrye.com) wrote: > Can you expand on what that means? > > Does it mean: > > a) systemd-resolved will use DNS over TLS if it detects that > the nameservers it is querying can do so (ie, it would do a query to > port 853 of the nameservers dhcp or static

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Daniel Walsh
On 4/14/20 17:26, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 8:48 pm, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > wrote: >> I guess the lesson here is the nsswitch.conf change should be >> clarified in the proposal. > > OK, I've just added it at the end of this part here: > > "systemd-libs currently

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Christopher
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 5:31 AM Tom Hughes via devel wrote: > > On 15/04/2020 10:14, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel wrote: > > On 14.04.2020 21:23, Ben Cotton wrote: > >> Enable systemd-resolved by default. glibc will perform name resolution > >> using nss-resolve rather than nss-dns. > > > > I've

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Florian Weimer
* Tom Hughes: > I'm not sure OpenVPN itself has any way to do DNS setup automatically > on linux but the NetworkManager integration might, I don't use that > though. Yes, the NetworkManager integration seems to mirror what happens on Windows, by looking at the foreign_option_* environment

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Tom Hughes via devel
On 15/04/2020 10:14, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel wrote: On 14.04.2020 21:23, Ben Cotton wrote: Enable systemd-resolved by default. glibc will perform name resolution using nss-resolve rather than nss-dns. I've tested systemd-resolved on my laptop for a month. It worked very, very unstable.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Vitaly Zaitsev via devel
On 14.04.2020 21:23, Ben Cotton wrote: > Enable systemd-resolved by default. glibc will perform name resolution > using nss-resolve rather than nss-dns. I've tested systemd-resolved on my laptop for a month. It worked very, very unstable. Sometimes it stopped responding and I needed to manually

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Tom Hughes via devel
On 15/04/2020 09:48, Florian Weimer wrote: >>> Is this expected to work with the Red Hat VPN out of the box, or do we >>> have to disable all this and use a custom configuration? Has this been >>> discussed with Infosec? It looks like this will break their DNS >>> sinkholing for domains such as

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Tom Hughes via devel
On 15/04/2020 09:53, Florian Weimer wrote: > Thanks. Does this mean that no search list processing happens, for > neither single-label names (per for the first paragraph), nor for > multi-label names (per the routing description)? Or is this process > described in some other context? That text

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Florian Weimer
* Tom Hughes: >· Single-label names are routed to all local interfaces capable of IP >multicasting, using the LLMNR protocol. Lookups for IPv4 addresses >are only sent via LLMNR on IPv4, and lookups for IPv6 addresses are >only sent via LLMNR on IPv6.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Florian Weimer
* Tom Hughes: > On 15/04/2020 09:08, Florian Weimer wrote: > >> I cannot find documentation of the systemd stub resolver behavior: how >> it handles search list processing, and how it decides which upstream >> name servers to query. > > As I understand the terminology the "stub resolver" in

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Tom Hughes via devel
On 15/04/2020 09:29, Tom Hughes via devel wrote: > I'm not sure what happens if there are multiple interfaces with > no specific routing but I think it may try them all? Found the documentation now - it does try them all. Full details from systemd-resolved(8) are: Lookup requests are

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Tom Hughes via devel
On 15/04/2020 09:08, Florian Weimer wrote: I cannot find documentation of the systemd stub resolver behavior: how it handles search list processing, and how it decides which upstream name servers to query. As I understand the terminology the "stub resolver" in systemd-resolved refers to the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Florian Weimer
* Ben Cotton: > Enable systemd-resolved by default. glibc will perform name resolution > using nss-resolve rather than nss-dns. Is this intended for Fedora Server and others as well, or just Workstation? I assume it's for everywhere. > systemd-resolved has been enabled by default in Ubuntu

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Florian Weimer
* Michael Catanzaro: > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 8:48 pm, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > wrote: >> I guess the lesson here is the nsswitch.conf change should be >> clarified in the proposal. > > OK, I've just added it at the end of this part here: > > "systemd-libs currently has >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-15 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 07:42:12AM +0200, Zdenek Dohnal wrote: > On 4/14/20 9:23 PM, Ben Cotton wrote: > > === Multicast DNS === > > > > systemd-resolved's multicast DNS support conflicts with Avahi. Per > > recommendation from the systemd developers, we will change the default > > value of this

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Zdenek Dohnal
On 4/14/20 9:23 PM, Ben Cotton wrote: > === Multicast DNS === > > systemd-resolved's multicast DNS support conflicts with Avahi. Per > recommendation from the systemd developers, we will change the default > value of this setting in Fedora from the upstream default > `MulticastDNS=yes` to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Pavel Raiskup
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 9:23:27 PM CEST Ben Cotton wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/systemd-resolved > > == Summary == > > Enable systemd-resolved by default. ... We had serious headaches because racy systemd-resolved got enabled for some unknown reasons on copr builders

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread stan via devel
On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 18:39:05 -0500 Michael Catanzaro wrote: > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 3:52 pm, stan via devel > wrote: > > Will the ability to turn off NetworkManager involvement in DNS in > > the configuration file (None) still remain? I use a local caching > > DNS server, and had to do that

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 3:52 pm, stan via devel wrote: Will the ability to turn off NetworkManager involvement in DNS in the configuration file (None) still remain? I use a local caching DNS server, and had to do that in order to allow it to run without interference / override by

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread stan via devel
On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 15:52:55 -0700 stan via devel wrote: > On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:18:02 -0500 > Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > > NetworkManager has three DNS backends: default (nss-dns, what we > > use currently), dnsmasq, and systemd-resolved. The default backend > > just does the wrong thing

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread stan via devel
On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:18:02 -0500 Michael Catanzaro wrote: > NetworkManager has three DNS backends: default (nss-dns, what we use > currently), dnsmasq, and systemd-resolved. The default backend just > does the wrong thing and cannot be fixed. When either dnsmasq or > systemd-resolved is in

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 8:48 pm, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: I guess the lesson here is the nsswitch.conf change should be clarified in the proposal. OK, I've just added it at the end of this part here: "systemd-libs currently has

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Adam Williamson
On Tue, 2020-04-14 at 16:18 -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 12:45 pm, Adam Williamson > wrote: > > Doesn't NetworkManager already broadly address both of these on all > > installations where it's used (which is all Fedora installs by > > default)? > > I don't think so,

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 12:45 pm, Adam Williamson wrote: Doesn't NetworkManager already broadly address both of these on all installations where it's used (which is all Fedora installs by default)? I don't think so, no. As far as I know, NetworkManager does not have a DNS cache. The only

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 12:57 pm, Kevin Fenzi wrote: Can you expand on what that means? Does it mean: a) systemd-resolved will use DNS over TLS if it detects that the nameservers it is querying can do so (ie, it would do a query to port 853 of the nameservers dhcp or static config gave it)

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 03:57:50PM -0400, James Cassell wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020, at 3:23 PM, Ben Cotton wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/systemd-resolved > > > > == Summary == > > > > Enable systemd-resolved by default. glibc will perform name resolution > > using

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread James Cassell
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020, at 3:23 PM, Ben Cotton wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/systemd-resolved > > == Summary == > > Enable systemd-resolved by default. glibc will perform name resolution > using nss-resolve rather than nss-dns. > > == Owner == > * Name: [[User:catanzaro|

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Kevin Fenzi
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 02:40:08PM -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 2:33 pm, Michael Cronenworth > wrote: > > Why wait? > > > > This is something I've been interested in and was interested in > > implementing in Fedora. > > Caution mainly, so that we only make one major

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Adam Williamson
On Tue, 2020-04-14 at 15:23 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > > === Caching === > > systemd-resolved caches DNS queries for a short while. This can > [https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/glib/-/merge_requests/682#note_441846 > dramatically] improve performance for applications that do not already >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 2:33 pm, Michael Cronenworth wrote: Why wait? This is something I've been interested in and was interested in implementing in Fedora. Caution mainly, so that we only make one major change at a time instead of two. The goal is to do this without generating too many

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Michael Cronenworth
On 4/14/20 2:23 PM, Ben Cotton wrote: === DNS over TLS === systemd-resolved supports DNS over TLS (different from DNS over HTTPS). Although this feature will not initially be enabled by default, using systemd-resolved will enable us to turn on DNS over TLS in a future Fedora release, providing

Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Ben Cotton
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/systemd-resolved == Summary == Enable systemd-resolved by default. glibc will perform name resolution using nss-resolve rather than nss-dns. == Owner == * Name: [[User:catanzaro| Michael Catanzaro]] * Email: == Detailed Description == We will enable

Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: systemd-resolved

2020-04-14 Thread Ben Cotton
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/systemd-resolved == Summary == Enable systemd-resolved by default. glibc will perform name resolution using nss-resolve rather than nss-dns. == Owner == * Name: [[User:catanzaro| Michael Catanzaro]] * Email: == Detailed Description == We will enable

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