John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> On Monday, February 10, 2020 10:53:45 AM MST Jared K. Smith wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 3:30 AM John M. Harris Jr
>>
>> wrote:
>> > As for the software available, that's called choice. I know
>> > it's a relative unknown in the GNOME world, as one option is
On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 10:57:26 -0700
"John M. Harris Jr" wrote:
> On Monday, February 10, 2020 10:53:45 AM MST Jared K. Smith wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 3:30 AM John M. Harris Jr
> >
> >
> > wrote:
> > > As for the software available, that's called choice. I know
> > > it's a relative
On Monday, February 10, 2020 10:53:45 AM MST Jared K. Smith wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 3:30 AM John M. Harris Jr
>
> wrote:
> > As for the software available, that's called choice. I know
> > it's a relative unknown in the GNOME world, as one option is shoved down
> > everyones' throat,
On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 3:30 AM John M. Harris Jr
wrote:
> As for the software available, that's called choice. I know
> it's a relative unknown in the GNOME world, as one option is shoved down
> everyones' throat, but it's a key part of the KDE ideology, as well as GNU/
> Linux itself.
>
John,
On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 9:25 AM John M. Harris Jr
wrote:
> On Thursday, February 6, 2020 7:33:52 AM MST Kevin Kofler wrote:
> > Kamil Paral wrote:
> >
> > > Yet you're one of the few people caring about the KDE spin, where major
> > > applications are duplicated or triplicated.There are 3
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 2:01 PM Bohdan Khomutskyi
wrote:
> I'd suggest not selecting any specific area to concentrate on, but to
> achieve an all-good solution that will combine the benefits, without
> specializing in one particular area.
>
Even if you can achieve some modest improvement in all
On Thursday, February 6, 2020 7:33:52 AM MST Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Kamil Paral wrote:
>
> > Yet you're one of the few people caring about the KDE spin, where major
> > applications are duplicated or triplicated.There are 3 different web
> > browsers(!), 2 different package managers, 2 file
Hello David,
As an author of this change, I'd like to comment on the options provided:
1) Reduce the ISO image size.
2) Improve installation time.
3) Improve image composition time.
All three can be achieved at the same time.
1) Using the best compression with plain SquashFS will reduce the
On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 03:34:23PM -0500, David Cantrell wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 03, 2020 at 05:22:55PM +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> >Hardware with low connectivity or low storage (chromebooks, vms)
> Your note about Chromebooks here is good. I don't have a Chromebook
> and do not know the main
On Tue, Feb 04, 2020 at 01:21:33PM +0100, Kamil Paral wrote:
On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 5:55 PM Kevin Fenzi wrote:
So, I propose:
reduce install time
reduce image size
reduce compose time
is the order we should put them in
I very much agree with this. The official compose gets done just once,
On Mon, Feb 03, 2020 at 05:22:55PM +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le 2020-02-03 17:11, David Cantrell a écrit :
Hi,
We want input from the community on what the main goal should be and
prioritize the rest. For example, is ISO reduction size more
important than
improving installation time,
On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> […]Fedora reportedly has millions of users, but I have no way of telling how
> many of those are actually affected by the longer download time […]
To add another aspect, that cannot be counted properly (and thus being a
personal
Kamil Paral wrote:
> Yet you're one of the few people caring about the KDE spin, where major
> applications are duplicated or triplicated.There are 3 different web
> browsers(!), 2 different package managers, 2 file managers.
I am not the one who makes the decisions on what goes on the Spin. The
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 3:06 PM Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Hence, the remainder of your post is a strawman based on entirely
> fictional
> "statistics".
>
>
I'm glad you agree that your own argumentation is flawed, since it's based
entirely on fictional statistics :)
Since you not only presented no
Lukas Ruzicka wrote:
> PS: KDE, especially, is very generous about unnecessary applications. Why
> do I need three web browsers installed?
Because the KDE SIG still procrastinates dropping Firefox, even though it is
a non-KDE application that has no business being on the KDE Spin, and Falkon
is
Josef Skladanka wrote:
> Assuming that your numbers are even accurate (which I have not seen any
> proof of so far), your vaguely defined "thousands" (semantically implies <
> 10, but absolutely < 20k, especially since you tend to use hyperbole, and
> that would definitely be "tens of thousands"
On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 11:58 PM Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Kamil Paral wrote:
> > I have already responded to your exaggerated numbers once, and you didn't
> > even reply. "Hours of difference" for "a few percent increase", let's say
> > 3 hours for 3 percent increase, means 100 hours total download
Hello everybody,
as I see it, we all want the same, but the priorities differ. My several
cents (although I will repeat myself):
*Let us properly curate the composes in terms of shipped applications
(a.k.a essential applications)*
Explanation: Our composes ship too many applications. By making a
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 12:01 AM Kevin Kofler wrote:
> So you propose to optimize Fedora for your own internal use at the expense
> of thousands of users?
>
Optimizing for automated QA and CI will increase the quality for everyone
(perhaps not immediately, but definitely in the long run, at
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 12:01 AM Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Oh, and to answer your other point:
>
> Lukas Brabec wrote:
> > It is pretty common for us in Fedora QA (well, I'm quite biased in this
> > case).
> > And no, we cannot compose our images, we have to test the exact same
> > images that will
Oh, and to answer your other point:
Lukas Brabec wrote:
> It is pretty common for us in Fedora QA (well, I'm quite biased in this
> case).
> And no, we cannot compose our images, we have to test the exact same
> images that will be shipped. We cannot test custom images and pretend
> the results
Kamil Paral wrote:
> I have already responded to your exaggerated numbers once, and you didn't
> even reply. "Hours of difference" for "a few percent increase", let's say
> 3 hours for 3 percent increase, means 100 hours total download time.
> That's over 4 days of non-stop download. I don't
Lukas Brabec wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 4:44 PM Kevin Kofler
> wrote:
>> given fixed-size physical media or not. The original change proposal of
>> trying to minimize the size might actually make at least the smaller
>> spins fit on a DVD again.
>
> All current Fedora spins [1] are well
On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 4:44 PM Kevin Kofler wrote:
> And on a slow enough connection (e.g., dial-up, which is still common in
> large parts of the world), "a few percent increase or decrease" in
> download
> time can mean hours of difference, much more than even 30-40% of install
> time.
I
On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 5:55 PM Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> So, I propose:
> reduce install time
> reduce image size
> reduce compose time
+1 Sounds very reasonable.
On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 1:22 PM Kamil Paral wrote:
> ...
>
Exactly what Kamil wrote. Few percent grow is negligible, but install
Kamil Paral wrote:
> I very much agree with this. The official compose gets done just once,
> lowest priority (Note that most tested configurations actually decrease
> the compose time, or increase slightly, but nothing major). The image size
> is important, so that stuff fits on a flash drive.
On 2/3/20, David Cantrell wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Changes/OptimizeSquashFS
[[snip]]
Being the engineering steering committee, we all had our own ideas and
opinions about what the problem is and how best to approach it.
[[snip]]
It seems to me that there is not
On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 5:55 PM Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> So, I propose:
> reduce install time
> reduce image size
> reduce compose time
>
> is the order we should put them in
I very much agree with this. The official compose gets done just once,
lowest priority (Note that most tested configurations
David Cantrell wrote:
> The goals identified:
>
> 1) Reduce the ISO image size.
> 2) Improve installation time.
> 3) Improve image composition time.
>
> We want input from the community on what the main goal should be
1) Reduce the ISO image size.
Kevin Kofler
On 2/4/20 9:32 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 03, 2020 at 05:22:55PM +0100, Nicolas Mailhot via devel wrote:
>> Le 2020-02-03 17:11, David Cantrell a écrit :
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>> We want input from the community on what the main goal should be and
>>> prioritize the rest. For
On Mon, Feb 03, 2020 at 05:22:55PM +0100, Nicolas Mailhot via devel wrote:
> Le 2020-02-03 17:11, David Cantrell a écrit :
>
> Hi,
>
> >We want input from the community on what the main goal should be and
> >prioritize the rest. For example, is ISO reduction size more
> >important than
>
On Mon, Feb 03, 2020 at 11:11:27AM -0500, David Cantrell wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Changes/OptimizeSquashFS
>
> In today's FESCo meeting (03-Feb-2020), we discussed this change proposal.
> Being the engineering steering committee, we all had our own ideas and
> opinions
(and before someone says "it’s about the iso not the packages", iso
files get downloaded too)
--
Nicolas Mailhot
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Le 2020-02-03 17:11, David Cantrell a écrit :
Hi,
We want input from the community on what the main goal should be and
prioritize the rest. For example, is ISO reduction size more important
than
improving installation time, for instance? If so, why?
This is a nonsensical question without
On 03. 02. 20 17:11, David Cantrell wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Changes/OptimizeSquashFS
BTW that page seem to be misplaced as a subcategory of changes on the wiki.
--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Changes/OptimizeSquashFS
In today's FESCo meeting (03-Feb-2020), we discussed this change proposal.
Being the engineering steering committee, we all had our own ideas and
opinions about what the problem is and how best to approach it. After
discussion, we
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