Re: Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-02-08 Thread Igor Gnatenko 
On Wed, 2017-02-08 at 09:55 -0500, Daniel J Walsh wrote:
> What is going on with this Change Request?  Any reason it has not been
> acted on at this point?  We are putting changes into our packages
> assuming that this will be allowed.
Given that it is in category "ChangeAcceptedF26", just go ahead and push changes
;)

Once it's done, change status of tracking bug 
(https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_b
ug.cgi?id=1419514) to MODIFIED.
> 
> 
> On 01/06/2017 05:08 PM, Igor Gnatenko wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Daniel J Walsh  wrote:
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DockerOverlay2
> > 
> > Thanks! Note, that you will need to send it for wrangler.
> > > 
> > > On 01/06/2017 02:27 PM, Igor Gnatenko wrote:
> > > 
> > > Shouldn't this be submitted as a change?
> > > 
> > > This would bring much more visibility to users of Fedora and even outside.
> > > 
> > > -Igor Gnatenko
> > > 
> > > On Jan 6, 2017 8:13 PM, "Daniel J Walsh"  wrote:
> > > > Upstream docker is moving to overlay2 by default for its storage.  We
> > > > plan on following suit.  Their are some performance advantages of
> > > > overlay2 over devicemapper in memory sharing, which we would like to
> > > > take advantage of.   We now have SELinux support for Overlay  file
> > > > systems, so the security should be just as good.
> > > > 
> > > > Note: Overlay is not a Posix Compliant file system, so their could be
> > > > problems with your containers running on overlay, so
> > > > we want to make sure it is fairly easy to switch back to devicemapper.
> > > > 
> > > > Devicemapper out of the box, on Fedora Workstation, currently defaults
> > > > to loopback devices for storage, which has a performance penalty, but
> > > > this was the only way we were able to get docker to work right away.
> > > > Switching to overlay2 will cause the storage to be shared with / and
> > > > will eliminate this performance overhead.   This is the way we will ship
> > > > Fedora Workstation.
> > > > 
> > > > On Fedora atomic host and Fedora server we have been storing
> > > > devicemapper storage on a separate partition.  We plan on doing the same
> > > > thing with overlay2.  This means separate device will be mounted on
> > > > /var/lib/docker.  This will make it easier for someone to switch back to
> > > > devicemapper, if overlay2 has problems.
> > > > 
> > > > Upgraded systems will not be effected.
> > > > 
> > > > If you want to switch from one storage to another take a look at the
> > > > `atomic storage` commands.
> > > > 
> > > > We will write up release notes to cover this change. Along with a blog
> > > > explaining the commands to switch back and forth.
> > > > ___
> > > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
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> > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

-- 
-Igor Gnatenko

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Re: Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-02-08 Thread Daniel J Walsh 
What is going on with this Change Request?  Any reason it has not been
acted on at this point?  We are putting changes into our packages
assuming that this will be allowed.


On 01/06/2017 05:08 PM, Igor Gnatenko wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Daniel J Walsh  wrote:
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DockerOverlay2
> Thanks! Note, that you will need to send it for wrangler.
>>
>> On 01/06/2017 02:27 PM, Igor Gnatenko wrote:
>>
>> Shouldn't this be submitted as a change?
>>
>> This would bring much more visibility to users of Fedora and even outside.
>>
>> -Igor Gnatenko
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2017 8:13 PM, "Daniel J Walsh"  wrote:
>>> Upstream docker is moving to overlay2 by default for its storage.  We
>>> plan on following suit.  Their are some performance advantages of
>>> overlay2 over devicemapper in memory sharing, which we would like to
>>> take advantage of.   We now have SELinux support for Overlay  file
>>> systems, so the security should be just as good.
>>>
>>> Note: Overlay is not a Posix Compliant file system, so their could be
>>> problems with your containers running on overlay, so
>>> we want to make sure it is fairly easy to switch back to devicemapper.
>>>
>>> Devicemapper out of the box, on Fedora Workstation, currently defaults
>>> to loopback devices for storage, which has a performance penalty, but
>>> this was the only way we were able to get docker to work right away.
>>> Switching to overlay2 will cause the storage to be shared with / and
>>> will eliminate this performance overhead.   This is the way we will ship
>>> Fedora Workstation.
>>>
>>> On Fedora atomic host and Fedora server we have been storing
>>> devicemapper storage on a separate partition.  We plan on doing the same
>>> thing with overlay2.  This means separate device will be mounted on
>>> /var/lib/docker.  This will make it easier for someone to switch back to
>>> devicemapper, if overlay2 has problems.
>>>
>>> Upgraded systems will not be effected.
>>>
>>> If you want to switch from one storage to another take a look at the
>>> `atomic storage` commands.
>>>
>>> We will write up release notes to cover this change. Along with a blog
>>> explaining the commands to switch back and forth.
>>> ___
>>> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-01-18 Thread Igor Gnatenko 
On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 9:54 PM, Dusty Mabe  wrote:
>
>
> On 01/18/2017 03:50 PM, Igor Gnatenko wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 9:48 PM, Dusty Mabe  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/06/2017 03:29 PM, Daniel J Walsh wrote:
 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DockerOverlay2
>>>
>>> Can we get this onto the "official looking" page for F26 changes [1]?
>> Change initiator should add it to category ReadyForWrangler and this
>> change will be discussed on next (or after next) FESCo meeting.
>
> I see this on that page already: Category:ChangeReadyForWrangler
no, it's just text. real category is: [[Category:ChangePageIncomplete]]
>
> Does that work?
>
> Dusty
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Re: Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-01-18 Thread Igor Gnatenko 
On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 9:48 PM, Dusty Mabe  wrote:
>
>
> On 01/06/2017 03:29 PM, Daniel J Walsh wrote:
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DockerOverlay2
>
> Can we get this onto the "official looking" page for F26 changes [1]?
Change initiator should add it to category ReadyForWrangler and this
change will be discussed on next (or after next) FESCo meeting.
>
> Do we also need to document in here the different configurations for the 
> different variants?
>
> Atomic Host vs Server vs Workstation?
>
> Dusty
>
> [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/26/ChangeSet
>
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Re: Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-01-18 Thread Dusty Mabe 


On 01/06/2017 03:29 PM, Daniel J Walsh wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DockerOverlay2

Can we get this onto the "official looking" page for F26 changes [1]?

Do we also need to document in here the different configurations for the 
different variants? 

Atomic Host vs Server vs Workstation? 

Dusty

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/26/ChangeSet
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Re: Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-01-18 Thread Dusty Mabe 


On 01/18/2017 03:50 PM, Igor Gnatenko wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 9:48 PM, Dusty Mabe  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 01/06/2017 03:29 PM, Daniel J Walsh wrote:
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DockerOverlay2
>>
>> Can we get this onto the "official looking" page for F26 changes [1]?
> Change initiator should add it to category ReadyForWrangler and this
> change will be discussed on next (or after next) FESCo meeting.

I see this on that page already: Category:ChangeReadyForWrangler

Does that work?

Dusty
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Re: Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-01-09 Thread Vivek Goyal 
On Fri, Jan 06, 2017 at 11:15:35PM +0100, Alec Leamas wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Is there a local convention that discussion about containers is using
> top-posting?
> 
> "Curious"

Nope. I just posted it without thinking about convention. But if we are
following inline replies on this list, next time onwards I will follow
that. No issues.

Vivek

> 
> --alec
> 
> On 06/01/17 23:12, Vivek Goyal wrote:
> > There is more conversation on this issue here.
> > 
> > https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/186
> > 
> > I wished there was a single thread of conversation on this instead of
> > separate conversation for per product variant.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Vivek
> > 
> > On Fri, Jan 06, 2017 at 02:05:49PM -0500, Daniel J Walsh wrote:
> > > Upstream docker is moving to overlay2 by default for its storage.  We
> > > plan on following suit.  Their are some performance advantages of
> > > overlay2 over devicemapper in memory sharing, which we would like to
> > > take advantage of.   We now have SELinux support for Overlay  file
> > > systems, so the security should be just as good.
> > > 
> > > Note: Overlay is not a Posix Compliant file system, so their could be
> > > problems with your containers running on overlay, so
> > > we want to make sure it is fairly easy to switch back to devicemapper.
> > > 
> > > Devicemapper out of the box, on Fedora Workstation, currently defaults
> > > to loopback devices for storage, which has a performance penalty, but
> > > this was the only way we were able to get docker to work right away.
> > > Switching to overlay2 will cause the storage to be shared with / and
> > > will eliminate this performance overhead.   This is the way we will ship
> > > Fedora Workstation.
> > > 
> > > On Fedora atomic host and Fedora server we have been storing
> > > devicemapper storage on a separate partition.  We plan on doing the same
> > > thing with overlay2.  This means separate device will be mounted on
> > > /var/lib/docker.  This will make it easier for someone to switch back to
> > > devicemapper, if overlay2 has problems.
> > > 
> > > Upgraded systems will not be effected.
> > > 
> > > If you want to switch from one storage to another take a look at the
> > > `atomic storage` commands.
> > > 
> > > We will write up release notes to cover this change. Along with a blog
> > > explaining the commands to switch back and forth.
> > ___
> > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > 
> ___
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Re: Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-01-06 Thread Alec Leamas 

Hi!

Is there a local convention that discussion about containers is using 
top-posting?


"Curious"

--alec

On 06/01/17 23:12, Vivek Goyal wrote:

There is more conversation on this issue here.

https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/186

I wished there was a single thread of conversation on this instead of
separate conversation for per product variant.

Thanks
Vivek

On Fri, Jan 06, 2017 at 02:05:49PM -0500, Daniel J Walsh wrote:

Upstream docker is moving to overlay2 by default for its storage.  We
plan on following suit.  Their are some performance advantages of
overlay2 over devicemapper in memory sharing, which we would like to
take advantage of.   We now have SELinux support for Overlay  file
systems, so the security should be just as good.

Note: Overlay is not a Posix Compliant file system, so their could be
problems with your containers running on overlay, so
we want to make sure it is fairly easy to switch back to devicemapper.

Devicemapper out of the box, on Fedora Workstation, currently defaults
to loopback devices for storage, which has a performance penalty, but
this was the only way we were able to get docker to work right away.
Switching to overlay2 will cause the storage to be shared with / and
will eliminate this performance overhead.   This is the way we will ship
Fedora Workstation.

On Fedora atomic host and Fedora server we have been storing
devicemapper storage on a separate partition.  We plan on doing the same
thing with overlay2.  This means separate device will be mounted on
/var/lib/docker.  This will make it easier for someone to switch back to
devicemapper, if overlay2 has problems.

Upgraded systems will not be effected.

If you want to switch from one storage to another take a look at the
`atomic storage` commands.

We will write up release notes to cover this change. Along with a blog
explaining the commands to switch back and forth.

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Re: Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-01-06 Thread Vivek Goyal 
There is more conversation on this issue here.

https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/186

I wished there was a single thread of conversation on this instead of
separate conversation for per product variant.

Thanks
Vivek

On Fri, Jan 06, 2017 at 02:05:49PM -0500, Daniel J Walsh wrote:
> Upstream docker is moving to overlay2 by default for its storage.  We
> plan on following suit.  Their are some performance advantages of
> overlay2 over devicemapper in memory sharing, which we would like to
> take advantage of.   We now have SELinux support for Overlay  file
> systems, so the security should be just as good.
> 
> Note: Overlay is not a Posix Compliant file system, so their could be
> problems with your containers running on overlay, so
> we want to make sure it is fairly easy to switch back to devicemapper.
> 
> Devicemapper out of the box, on Fedora Workstation, currently defaults
> to loopback devices for storage, which has a performance penalty, but
> this was the only way we were able to get docker to work right away. 
> Switching to overlay2 will cause the storage to be shared with / and
> will eliminate this performance overhead.   This is the way we will ship
> Fedora Workstation.
> 
> On Fedora atomic host and Fedora server we have been storing
> devicemapper storage on a separate partition.  We plan on doing the same
> thing with overlay2.  This means separate device will be mounted on
> /var/lib/docker.  This will make it easier for someone to switch back to
> devicemapper, if overlay2 has problems.
> 
> Upgraded systems will not be effected. 
> 
> If you want to switch from one storage to another take a look at the
> `atomic storage` commands.
> 
> We will write up release notes to cover this change. Along with a blog
> explaining the commands to switch back and forth.
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Re: Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-01-06 Thread Igor Gnatenko 
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Daniel J Walsh  wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DockerOverlay2
Thanks! Note, that you will need to send it for wrangler.
>
>
> On 01/06/2017 02:27 PM, Igor Gnatenko wrote:
>
> Shouldn't this be submitted as a change?
>
> This would bring much more visibility to users of Fedora and even outside.
>
> -Igor Gnatenko
>
> On Jan 6, 2017 8:13 PM, "Daniel J Walsh"  wrote:
>>
>> Upstream docker is moving to overlay2 by default for its storage.  We
>> plan on following suit.  Their are some performance advantages of
>> overlay2 over devicemapper in memory sharing, which we would like to
>> take advantage of.   We now have SELinux support for Overlay  file
>> systems, so the security should be just as good.
>>
>> Note: Overlay is not a Posix Compliant file system, so their could be
>> problems with your containers running on overlay, so
>> we want to make sure it is fairly easy to switch back to devicemapper.
>>
>> Devicemapper out of the box, on Fedora Workstation, currently defaults
>> to loopback devices for storage, which has a performance penalty, but
>> this was the only way we were able to get docker to work right away.
>> Switching to overlay2 will cause the storage to be shared with / and
>> will eliminate this performance overhead.   This is the way we will ship
>> Fedora Workstation.
>>
>> On Fedora atomic host and Fedora server we have been storing
>> devicemapper storage on a separate partition.  We plan on doing the same
>> thing with overlay2.  This means separate device will be mounted on
>> /var/lib/docker.  This will make it easier for someone to switch back to
>> devicemapper, if overlay2 has problems.
>>
>> Upgraded systems will not be effected.
>>
>> If you want to switch from one storage to another take a look at the
>> `atomic storage` commands.
>>
>> We will write up release notes to cover this change. Along with a blog
>> explaining the commands to switch back and forth.
>> ___
>> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
>
>
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
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>
>



-- 
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Re: Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-01-06 Thread Daniel J Walsh 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DockerOverlay2


On 01/06/2017 02:27 PM, Igor Gnatenko wrote:
> Shouldn't this be submitted as a change? 
>
> This would bring much more visibility to users of Fedora and even outside.
>
> -Igor Gnatenko
>
> On Jan 6, 2017 8:13 PM, "Daniel J Walsh"  > wrote:
>
> Upstream docker is moving to overlay2 by default for its storage.  We
> plan on following suit.  Their are some performance advantages of
> overlay2 over devicemapper in memory sharing, which we would like to
> take advantage of.   We now have SELinux support for Overlay  file
> systems, so the security should be just as good.
>
> Note: Overlay is not a Posix Compliant file system, so their could be
> problems with your containers running on overlay, so
> we want to make sure it is fairly easy to switch back to devicemapper.
>
> Devicemapper out of the box, on Fedora Workstation, currently defaults
> to loopback devices for storage, which has a performance penalty, but
> this was the only way we were able to get docker to work right away.
> Switching to overlay2 will cause the storage to be shared with / and
> will eliminate this performance overhead.   This is the way we
> will ship
> Fedora Workstation.
>
> On Fedora atomic host and Fedora server we have been storing
> devicemapper storage on a separate partition.  We plan on doing
> the same
> thing with overlay2.  This means separate device will be mounted on
> /var/lib/docker.  This will make it easier for someone to switch
> back to
> devicemapper, if overlay2 has problems.
>
> Upgraded systems will not be effected.
>
> If you want to switch from one storage to another take a look at the
> `atomic storage` commands.
>
> We will write up release notes to cover this change. Along with a blog
> explaining the commands to switch back and forth.
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> 
> To unsubscribe send an email to
> devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> 
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-01-06 Thread Igor Gnatenko 
Shouldn't this be submitted as a change?

This would bring much more visibility to users of Fedora and even outside.

-Igor Gnatenko

On Jan 6, 2017 8:13 PM, "Daniel J Walsh"  wrote:

> Upstream docker is moving to overlay2 by default for its storage.  We
> plan on following suit.  Their are some performance advantages of
> overlay2 over devicemapper in memory sharing, which we would like to
> take advantage of.   We now have SELinux support for Overlay  file
> systems, so the security should be just as good.
>
> Note: Overlay is not a Posix Compliant file system, so their could be
> problems with your containers running on overlay, so
> we want to make sure it is fairly easy to switch back to devicemapper.
>
> Devicemapper out of the box, on Fedora Workstation, currently defaults
> to loopback devices for storage, which has a performance penalty, but
> this was the only way we were able to get docker to work right away.
> Switching to overlay2 will cause the storage to be shared with / and
> will eliminate this performance overhead.   This is the way we will ship
> Fedora Workstation.
>
> On Fedora atomic host and Fedora server we have been storing
> devicemapper storage on a separate partition.  We plan on doing the same
> thing with overlay2.  This means separate device will be mounted on
> /var/lib/docker.  This will make it easier for someone to switch back to
> devicemapper, if overlay2 has problems.
>
> Upgraded systems will not be effected.
>
> If you want to switch from one storage to another take a look at the
> `atomic storage` commands.
>
> We will write up release notes to cover this change. Along with a blog
> explaining the commands to switch back and forth.
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
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Re: Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-01-06 Thread Vivek Goyal 
On Fri, Jan 06, 2017 at 02:05:49PM -0500, Daniel J Walsh wrote:
> Upstream docker is moving to overlay2 by default for its storage.  We
> plan on following suit.  Their are some performance advantages of
> overlay2 over devicemapper in memory sharing, which we would like to
> take advantage of.   We now have SELinux support for Overlay  file
> systems, so the security should be just as good.
> 
> Note: Overlay is not a Posix Compliant file system, so their could be
> problems with your containers running on overlay, so
> we want to make sure it is fairly easy to switch back to devicemapper.

Yes, idea is basically that with overlay2 continuously improving upstream,
it might be at a stage where pros of overlay2 might outweight its cons
for lot of people. And if does not, then provide and easy way for
users to switch back to devicemapper.

With overlay2 being default, it will also provide with some data about
how well it works for various workloads.

Vivek

> On Fedora atomic host and Fedora server we have been storing
> devicemapper storage on a separate partition.  We plan on doing the same
> thing with overlay2.  This means separate device will be mounted on
> /var/lib/docker.  This will make it easier for someone to switch back to
> devicemapper, if overlay2 has problems.
> 
> Upgraded systems will not be effected. 
> 
> If you want to switch from one storage to another take a look at the
> `atomic storage` commands.
> 
> We will write up release notes to cover this change. Along with a blog
> explaining the commands to switch back and forth.
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Changing default "docker" storage to to Overlay2 in Fedora 26

2017-01-06 Thread Daniel J Walsh 
Upstream docker is moving to overlay2 by default for its storage.  We
plan on following suit.  Their are some performance advantages of
overlay2 over devicemapper in memory sharing, which we would like to
take advantage of.   We now have SELinux support for Overlay  file
systems, so the security should be just as good.

Note: Overlay is not a Posix Compliant file system, so their could be
problems with your containers running on overlay, so
we want to make sure it is fairly easy to switch back to devicemapper.

Devicemapper out of the box, on Fedora Workstation, currently defaults
to loopback devices for storage, which has a performance penalty, but
this was the only way we were able to get docker to work right away. 
Switching to overlay2 will cause the storage to be shared with / and
will eliminate this performance overhead.   This is the way we will ship
Fedora Workstation.

On Fedora atomic host and Fedora server we have been storing
devicemapper storage on a separate partition.  We plan on doing the same
thing with overlay2.  This means separate device will be mounted on
/var/lib/docker.  This will make it easier for someone to switch back to
devicemapper, if overlay2 has problems.

Upgraded systems will not be effected. 

If you want to switch from one storage to another take a look at the
`atomic storage` commands.

We will write up release notes to cover this change. Along with a blog
explaining the commands to switch back and forth.
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