Re: F27 Self Contained Change: Decouple system java setting from java command setting
On 2017-06-16 18:44, Dennis Gilmore wrote: I would like to see some details on how this is going to be implemented. It all seem very vague and handwavy I've just updated the proposal [1] to be more concrete and detailed. Let me know if there are still unclear points. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Decouple_system_java_setting_from_java_command_setting Michael El jue, 08-06-2017 a las 15:55 +0200, Jan Kurik escribió: = Proposed Self Contained Change: Decouple system java setting from java command setting = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Decouple_system_java_setting_f rom_java_command_setting Change owner(s): * Michael Simacek * Mikolaj Izdebski Alternatives can be used to specify which Java installation should be the default for the system. Currently, changing the default java command causes not only a change to the /usr/bin/java symlink, but also affects the which runtime is used for system installed Java applications. We propose introduction of separate setting for system-wide java applications. == Detailed Description == Fedora allows parallel installation of multiple Java runtime environments and it uses alternatives mechanism to allow the user to switch between them. JDK packages provide a set of alternatives symlinks for it's executables. The java symlink is used to determine the java command (/usr/bin/java), but also determines which runtime environment is used to run system-wide Java applications installed from RPMs, such as maven or eclipse. While in theory different Java runtime environments are drop-in replacements for each other, in practice some of the applications may stop working properly. Users usually install alternative JDKs in order to run their own applications and don't expect that changing the java command will have effect on the system applications. By introducing a separate setting for system-wide java, we would avoid this problem. We propose specifying default Java runtime for RPM-managed applications in /etc/java/java.conf (this is already possible, but not currently used). Administrators would still be able to override the system default if they need to. == Scope == * Proposal owners: Adjust javapackages-tools to provide default Java setting in /etc/java/java.conf * Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Release engineering: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/6831 * List of deliverables: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change) -- Jan Kuřík Platform & Fedora Program Manager Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkynova 99/71, 612 45 Brno, Czech Republic ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: F27 Self Contained Change: Decouple system java setting from java command setting
On 2017-06-20 20:07, nicolas.mail...@laposte.net wrote: Hi, Frankly, the proposed change seems a great way to accumulate technical debt at a rapid pace, by helping apps to specify various legacy or proprietary Java variants, and postponing taking into account openjdk changes indefinitely. Why do you think so? The proposal doesn't say anything like that. It doesn't let apps specify their Java. The setting for Java applications will still be global. Moreover, Fedora doesn't ship legacy or proprietary Java variants. That's more or less what the proprietary unixes did till the whole house of cards collapsed under the weight of long overdue migration needs. IIRC the whole alternative system already lets an app specify a specific java version and producer (at least it did in JPackage time). What it does not let people do is to pretend an app is java-version and java-producer agnostic when it isn't. %jpackage_script generated launcher scripts don't let an app specify java version/provider and that will stay the same. Michael ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: F27 Self Contained Change: Decouple system java setting from java command setting
Hi, Frankly, the proposed change seems a great way to accumulate technical debt at a rapid pace, by helping apps to specify various legacy or proprietary Java variants, and postponing taking into account openjdk changes indefinitely. That's more or less what the proprietary unixes did till the whole house of cards collapsed under the weight of long overdue migration needs. IIRC the whole alternative system already lets an app specify a specific java version and producer (at least it did in JPackage time). What it does not let people do is to pretend an app is java-version and java-producer agnostic when it isn't. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: F27 Self Contained Change: Decouple system java setting from java command setting
On 06/20/2017 10:48 AM, Jiri Vanek wrote: > There are may reasons to not to do this change. At least not to do this > as it is specified. I would like to hear your reasons. > Where is best place to discus? Discussion already started at > java-proj...@redhat.com.[1] Fedora devel list is the right place for that. -- Mikolaj Izdebski Software Engineer, Red Hat IRC: mizdebsk ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: F27 Self Contained Change: Decouple system java setting from java command setting
On 06/16/2017 06:44 PM, Dennis Gilmore wrote: > I would like to see some details on how this is going to be > implemented. It is going to be implemented by updating javapackages-tools package in Fedora 27 to new upstream release, which includes this change: https://github.com/fedora-java/javapackages/pull/44/commits/a05123ba74a0693ef116f718eb7326213bb94b75 -- Mikolaj Izdebski Software Engineer, Red Hat IRC: mizdebsk ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: F27 Self Contained Change: Decouple system java setting from java command setting
There are may reasons to not to do this change. At least not to do this as it is specified. Where is best place to discus? Discussion already started at java-proj...@redhat.com.[1] Please advice, J. [1] http://post-office.corp.redhat.com/archives/java-project/2017-June/date.html On 06/08/2017 03:55 PM, Jan Kurik wrote: = Proposed Self Contained Change: Decouple system java setting from java command setting = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Decouple_system_java_setting_from_java_command_setting Change owner(s): * Michael Simacek * Mikolaj Izdebski Alternatives can be used to specify which Java installation should be the default for the system. Currently, changing the default java command causes not only a change to the /usr/bin/java symlink, but also affects the which runtime is used for system installed Java applications. We propose introduction of separate setting for system-wide java applications. == Detailed Description == Fedora allows parallel installation of multiple Java runtime environments and it uses alternatives mechanism to allow the user to switch between them. JDK packages provide a set of alternatives symlinks for it's executables. The java symlink is used to determine the java command (/usr/bin/java), but also determines which runtime environment is used to run system-wide Java applications installed from RPMs, such as maven or eclipse. While in theory different Java runtime environments are drop-in replacements for each other, in practice some of the applications may stop working properly. Users usually install alternative JDKs in order to run their own applications and don't expect that changing the java command will have effect on the system applications. By introducing a separate setting for system-wide java, we would avoid this problem. We propose specifying default Java runtime for RPM-managed applications in /etc/java/java.conf (this is already possible, but not currently used). Administrators would still be able to override the system default if they need to. == Scope == * Proposal owners: Adjust javapackages-tools to provide default Java setting in /etc/java/java.conf * Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Release engineering: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/6831 * List of deliverables: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change) -- Jiri Vanek Senior QE engineer, OpenJDK QE lead, Mgr. Red Hat Czech jva...@redhat.comM: +420775390109 ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: F27 Self Contained Change: Decouple system java setting from java command setting
I would like to see some details on how this is going to be implemented. It all seem very vague and handwavy El jue, 08-06-2017 a las 15:55 +0200, Jan Kurik escribió: > = Proposed Self Contained Change: Decouple system java setting from > java command setting = > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Decouple_system_java_setting_f > rom_java_command_setting > > Change owner(s): > * Michael Simacek > * Mikolaj Izdebski > > Alternatives can be used to specify which Java installation should be > the default for the system. Currently, changing the default java > command causes not only a change to the /usr/bin/java symlink, but > also affects the which runtime is used for system installed Java > applications. We propose introduction of separate setting for > system-wide java applications. > > > == Detailed Description == > Fedora allows parallel installation of multiple Java runtime > environments and it uses alternatives mechanism to allow the user to > switch between them. JDK packages provide a set of alternatives > symlinks for it's executables. The java symlink is used to determine > the java command (/usr/bin/java), but also determines which runtime > environment is used to run system-wide Java applications installed > from RPMs, such as maven or eclipse. While in theory different Java > runtime environments are drop-in replacements for each other, in > practice some of the applications may stop working properly. Users > usually install alternative JDKs in order to run their own > applications and don't expect that changing the java command will > have > effect on the system applications. By introducing a separate setting > for system-wide java, we would avoid this problem. We propose > specifying default Java runtime for RPM-managed applications in > /etc/java/java.conf (this is already possible, but not currently > used). Administrators would still be able to override the system > default if they need to. > > > == Scope == > * Proposal owners: > Adjust javapackages-tools to provide default Java setting in > /etc/java/java.conf > > * Other developers: > N/A (not a System Wide Change) > > * Release engineering: > https://pagure.io/releng/issue/6831 > > * List of deliverables: > N/A (not a System Wide Change) > > * Policies and guidelines: > N/A (not a System Wide Change) > > * Trademark approval: > N/A (not needed for this Change) > -- > Jan Kuřík > Platform & Fedora Program Manager > Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkynova 99/71, 612 45 Brno, Czech Republic > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
F27 Self Contained Change: Decouple system java setting from java command setting
= Proposed Self Contained Change: Decouple system java setting from java command setting = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Decouple_system_java_setting_from_java_command_setting Change owner(s): * Michael Simacek * Mikolaj Izdebski Alternatives can be used to specify which Java installation should be the default for the system. Currently, changing the default java command causes not only a change to the /usr/bin/java symlink, but also affects the which runtime is used for system installed Java applications. We propose introduction of separate setting for system-wide java applications. == Detailed Description == Fedora allows parallel installation of multiple Java runtime environments and it uses alternatives mechanism to allow the user to switch between them. JDK packages provide a set of alternatives symlinks for it's executables. The java symlink is used to determine the java command (/usr/bin/java), but also determines which runtime environment is used to run system-wide Java applications installed from RPMs, such as maven or eclipse. While in theory different Java runtime environments are drop-in replacements for each other, in practice some of the applications may stop working properly. Users usually install alternative JDKs in order to run their own applications and don't expect that changing the java command will have effect on the system applications. By introducing a separate setting for system-wide java, we would avoid this problem. We propose specifying default Java runtime for RPM-managed applications in /etc/java/java.conf (this is already possible, but not currently used). Administrators would still be able to override the system default if they need to. == Scope == * Proposal owners: Adjust javapackages-tools to provide default Java setting in /etc/java/java.conf * Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Release engineering: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/6831 * List of deliverables: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change) -- Jan Kuřík Platform & Fedora Program Manager Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkynova 99/71, 612 45 Brno, Czech Republic ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
