On 12. 12. 19 21:37, Ben Cotton wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Drop_Optical_Media_Criterion
= Drop Optical Media Release Criterion =
== Summary ==
Proposal to make all Fedora optical media non-blocking. This means
we'd stop blocking on bugs found during the installation of Fedora
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 10:01:02 AM MST Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 07:33:12PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
>
> > > Well, this definitely affects those using Fedora for enterprise
> > > purposes. It's incredible how much businesses still rely on optical
> > > media for the
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 07:33:12PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
> > Well, this definitely affects those using Fedora for enterprise
> > purposes. It's incredible how much businesses still rely on optical
> > media for these things.
> Again, you're projecting from an anecdote of one. My anecdote of on
On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:37 AM John M. Harris Jr
wrote:
> But it would mean that Fedora would potentially release with optical boot
> broken.
Yes, and it was said about a million times in all threads regarding this
change proposal. There is no need to say it again and again.
Yes, it can resu
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 08:09:14PM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> It's simply not the case that optical drives have been uncommon on
> end-user systems for over 6 years. As we found earlier in this thread,
> they're on 1/3rd of stock desktops from a standard consumer vendor,
> and on most sys
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 7:51:38 PM MST Solomon Peachy wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 07:33:12PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
> > Again, you're projecting from an anecdote of one. My anecdote of one is
> > that the vast majority of system in my company (around 400 employees
> > IIRC) don't hav
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 6:33:12 PM MST Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said:
>
> > On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 10:02:42 AM MST Justin W. Flory wrote:
> >
> > > This might not affect people **using** Fedora for enterprise purposes
> >
> >
> > Well, this definite
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 07:33:12PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
> Again, you're projecting from an anecdote of one. My anecdote of one is
> that the vast majority of system in my company (around 400 employees
> IIRC) don't have an optical drive. I'm actually not sure if any of the
> desktops have on
Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said:
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 10:02:42 AM MST Justin W. Flory wrote:
> > This might not affect people **using** Fedora for enterprise purposes
>
> Well, this definitely affects those using Fedora for enterprise purposes.
> It's
> incredible how much b
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 10:02:42 AM MST Justin W. Flory wrote:
> This might not affect people **using** Fedora for enterprise purposes
Well, this definitely affects those using Fedora for enterprise purposes. It's
incredible how much businesses still rely on optical media for these things.
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 1:09:17 AM MST Frantisek Zatloukal wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 2:31 AM Adam Williamson
> wrote:
> > Still, we have F32 Beta coming up quite
> > soon, we could potentially delay this feature and see how that goes -
> > see if anyone besides RH Fedora QE staff show
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 2:33:06 AM MST Kamil Paral wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:23 AM John M. Harris Jr
>
> wrote:
> > > We have 2 release-blocking media, so the total time is somewhere between
> > > 2-3 hours (likely closer to 2 hours, because netinst installation is way
> > > faste
On Tue, 2019-12-17 at 20:53 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>
> > To me it is, in a weird way: I tend to view the presence of someone
> > who's willing to actually *do* something as a proxy for there being
> > others who care about it. For instance on the 32-bit x86 topic - if the
> > x86 SIG had *wo
On 12/17/19 5:14 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Tue, 2019-12-17 at 10:43 +0100, Kamil Paral wrote:
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 2:31 AM Adam Williamson
wrote:
On Mon, 2019-12-16 at 16:52 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
I've offered to take on responsibility for these tests in this thread,
and I'm
On Tue, 2019-12-17 at 16:25 +, Justin W. Flory wrote:
> >
> > Note, the testing isn't *hard* to do, really, it's just tedious and
> > time consuming. Not just the act of running the test (though that does
> > take quite a while, between the burning process and the boot, media
> > check and ins
> Kamil wrote:
>
> This has been a long discussion. Let me sum up some answers and
> misunderstandings, as a member of the QA team.
>
Hey Kamil, I wanted to say thanks for adding this perspective. I missed this
post in my last reply because there are a lot of posts. I learned a lot about
Fedor
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 5:19 PM Adam Williamson
wrote:
> On Tue, 2019-12-17 at 13:04 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> > Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > You've been saying this a lot lately, and this isn't actually backed
> > > up by reality.
> > >
> > > Debian *is* dropping Python 2 support.
> >
> > It was A
> Miro Hrončok wrote:
>
> The devel list is the first place where developers gather feedback. The idea
> to
> reach a committee (whether FESCo or Mindshare) before reaching to devel is
> hence
> entirely wrong in my opinion. Committees should rubber stamp community
> decisions, not drive them
On Tue, 2019-12-17 at 13:27 +0100, Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 09:00:11AM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Mon, 2019-12-16 at 10:49 +0100, Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
> > > Wishlist item: Can we just have cdn.fedoraproject.org download urls
> > > please?
> >
> > If you mean 'a URL
On Tue, 2019-12-17 at 13:04 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Neal Gompa wrote:
> > You've been saying this a lot lately, and this isn't actually backed
> > up by reality.
> >
> > Debian *is* dropping Python 2 support.
>
> It was Adam Williamson who claimed that Debian would still support Python 2.
>
On Tue, 2019-12-17 at 10:43 +0100, Kamil Paral wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 2:31 AM Adam Williamson
> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 2019-12-16 at 16:52 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> > > I've offered to take on responsibility for these tests in this thread,
> > and I'm
> > > still open to that. Thi
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 1:28 PM Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 09:00:11AM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Mon, 2019-12-16 at 10:49 +0100, Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
> > >
> > > Wishlist item: Can we just have cdn.fedoraproject.org download urls
> > > please?
> >
> > If you mean 'a
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 09:00:11AM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Mon, 2019-12-16 at 10:49 +0100, Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
> >
> > Wishlist item: Can we just have cdn.fedoraproject.org download urls
> > please?
>
> If you mean 'a URL that redirects you to a mirror that carries the
> file', that'
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 1:13 PM Peter Pentchev wrote:
> > Maintainers need to realize that there is lots of niche software out
> there
> > that is effectively unmaintained (and thus will never get ported to
> Python 3
> > etc.), but that works, fulfills some task, and has no more recent
> > alter
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 01:04:43PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Neal Gompa wrote:
> > You've been saying this a lot lately, and this isn't actually backed
> > up by reality.
> >
> > Debian *is* dropping Python 2 support.
>
> It was Adam Williamson who claimed that Debian would still support Pytho
Neal Gompa wrote:
> You've been saying this a lot lately, and this isn't actually backed
> up by reality.
>
> Debian *is* dropping Python 2 support.
It was Adam Williamson who claimed that Debian would still support Python 2.
I neglected to verify that claim, sorry for that.
But this means that
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 09:54:49PM -0500, Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 9:37 PM Kevin Kofler wrote:
> >
> > Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > BTW, there is another point here which you may not appreciate: Fedora
> > > and Debian aren't really in competition. Fedora does not see its job as
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 05:30:14PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Mon, 2019-12-16 at 16:52 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
[snip]
> > This doesn't change the fact that many Python scripts *cannot run on Python
> > 3*. Debian is not a museum piece either, and yet they don't just kill the
> > o
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 4:17 AM John M. Harris Jr
wrote:
> Sounds good, I'll subscribe to that list when I get to work tomorrow. I'll
> set
> aside a T400 running the standard boot firmware to test optical media on.
> Past
> that, I'll pick out some system that supports UEFI to test UEFI optical
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 2:31 AM Adam Williamson
wrote:
> On Mon, 2019-12-16 at 16:52 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> > I've offered to take on responsibility for these tests in this thread,
> and I'm
> > still open to that. This is still important to many users, and I'm more
> than
> > happy to
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 12:23 AM John M. Harris Jr
wrote:
> > We have 2 release-blocking media, so the total time is somewhere between
> > 2-3 hours (likely closer to 2 hours, because netinst installation is way
> > faster due to downloading packages from the net instead of copying them
> > from
On 17. 12. 19 3:54, Neal Gompa wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 9:37 PM Kevin Kofler wrote:
Adam Williamson wrote:
BTW, there is another point here which you may not appreciate: Fedora
and Debian aren't really in competition. Fedora does not see its job as
being to Conquer The World and have ev
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 2:31 AM Adam Williamson
wrote:
> Still, we have F32 Beta coming up quite
> soon, we could potentially delay this feature and see how that goes -
> see if anyone besides RH Fedora QE staff shows up to run the tests...
>
We still can have optical media as non blocking, that
On Monday, December 16, 2019 6:30:14 PM MST Adam Williamson wrote:
> All you have to do is subscribe to the test-announce@ list and, when a
> mail like this one appears:
>
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/test-announce@lists.fedoraproj
> ect.org/thread/TU5YRBVDQIKUHLZCYVRUMFFPENHL3C
On Monday, December 16, 2019 6:30:14 PM MST Adam Williamson wrote:
> Yup. This was anticipated. What's the alternative? We never drop Python
> 2 support in order to keep software that is clearly becoming
> increasingly out of date in a distribution which has "First" as one of
> its core principles?
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 9:37 PM Kevin Kofler wrote:
>
> Adam Williamson wrote:
> > BTW, there is another point here which you may not appreciate: Fedora
> > and Debian aren't really in competition. Fedora does not see its job as
> > being to Conquer The World and have everyone run Fedora. Fedora i
Adam Williamson wrote:
> BTW, there is another point here which you may not appreciate: Fedora
> and Debian aren't really in competition. Fedora does not see its job as
> being to Conquer The World and have everyone run Fedora. Fedora is
> targeted at particular purposes and particular audiences. I
On Mon, 2019-12-16 at 16:52 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
>
> Right, my only contributions to Fedora on this account have been Mindshare
> related, and various Copr builds. I'm not currently a packager, nor am I a
> member of QA. However, that doesn't change much about my argument. It's still
On Monday, December 16, 2019 12:16:29 PM MST Kamil Paral wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 4:06 PM John M. Harris Jr
>
> wrote:
> > > An older installation medium can be used and the system upgraded. And
> >
> > older
> >
> > > installation medium can be used and pointed at latest installation
>
On Monday, December 16, 2019 10:41:57 AM MST Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Sun, 2019-12-15 at 22:59 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
>
> > This is not the only change I am referring to. We've been in the
> > habit of dropping things that work, with no real reasons lately.
> > For example, look at dro
On Monday, December 16, 2019 11:48:49 AM MST Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Adam Williamson wrote:
>
> > This is not accurate. You're not accounting for the time it takes to
> > write the disc, and we also have to check that the media check works,
> > which takes quite a while on its own.
>
>
> Who cares
On Monday, December 16, 2019 12:52:49 PM MST Kamil Paral wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:14 PM John M. Harris Jr
>
> wrote:
> > On Monday, December 16, 2019 9:56:01 AM MST Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > This is not accurate. You're not accounting for the time it takes to
> > > write the disc, an
Chris Murphy wrote:
> There is nothing sudden about this proposal. It is not unusual. It has
> been laboriously explained. You just don't like what you're hearing.
> And you are resorting to a variety of slander in mischaracterizing
> people's decisions, through your word selection.
You are the on
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 7:50 PM Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Adam Williamson wrote:
> > This is not accurate. You're not accounting for the time it takes to
> > write the disc, and we also have to check that the media check works,
> > which takes quite a while on its own.
>
> Who cares whether the media
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:14 PM John M. Harris Jr
wrote:
> On Monday, December 16, 2019 9:56:01 AM MST Adam Williamson wrote:
> > This is not accurate. You're not accounting for the time it takes to
> > write the disc, and we also have to check that the media check works,
> > which takes quite a
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:04 PM Adam Williamson
wrote:
> On Mon, 2019-12-16 at 13:13 +0100, Kamil Paral wrote:
> > It's also important to understand the current state of optical media
> > release criteria. We've dropped the blocker requirement for most
> > installation media two years ago. Only E
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 4:06 PM John M. Harris Jr
wrote:
> > An older installation medium can be used and the system upgraded. And
> older
> > installation medium can be used and pointed at latest installation
> > repositories (this is not guaranteed to work, but works in majority of
> cases).
>
Adam Williamson wrote:
> This is not accurate. You're not accounting for the time it takes to
> write the disc, and we also have to check that the media check works,
> which takes quite a while on its own.
Who cares whether the media check works? If it fails, but the distro still
installs, that i
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 1:28 AM John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> This is based on random choice and personal whim, not objective reasoning.
> That there is a process does not mean that the outcome is based on anything
> more than various individuals' personal opinions.
whim
/(h)wim/
a sudden desire or
On 12/16/19 1:07 PM, Andreas Tunek wrote:
Den mån 16 dec. 2019 kl 18:42 skrev Adam Williamson
mailto:adamw...@fedoraproject.org>>:
Sometimes someone will propose that we've crossed the line when we
haven't, and usually we realize this and the proposal fails (excellent
example: the recentish "x
Den mån 16 dec. 2019 kl 18:42 skrev Adam Williamson <
adamw...@fedoraproject.org>:
>
>
> Sometimes someone will propose that we've crossed the line when we
> haven't, and usually we realize this and the proposal fails (excellent
> example: the recentish "x86-64 micro-architecture update" proposal,
On Sun, 2019-12-15 at 22:59 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> This is not the only change I am referring to. We've been in the
> habit of dropping things that work, with no real reasons lately.
> For example, look at dropped x86 support, and soon we will be
> dropping Python 2. We have already had
On Monday, December 16, 2019 9:56:01 AM MST Adam Williamson wrote:
> This is not accurate. You're not accounting for the time it takes to
> write the disc, and we also have to check that the media check works,
> which takes quite a while on its own.
I was accounting for that time. Writing to a dis
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:45 AM Kevin Kofler wrote:
>
> Chris Murphy wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 7:37 PM John M. Harris Jr
> > wrote:
> >> It's certainly true that Apple will not service your hardware if you've
> >> got an OS other than their proprietary nonsense installed.
> >
> > In no w
On Mon, 2019-12-16 at 13:13 +0100, Kamil Paral wrote:
> It's also important to understand the current state of optical media
> release criteria. We've dropped the blocker requirement for most
> installation media two years ago. Only Everything netinst and Workstation
> Live remained. This proposal
On Mon, 2019-12-16 at 10:49 +0100, Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
>
> Wishlist item: Can we just have cdn.fedoraproject.org download urls
> please?
If you mean 'a URL that redirects you to a mirror that carries the
file', that's what download.fedoraproject.org is.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community M
On Sun, 2019-12-15 at 20:48 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> Instead of trying to make arguments against those who use CDs, why not keep
>
> what already works maintained? The level of effort required here is
>
> surprisingly small, testing installation from a physical CD takes, with a
> SATA
On Monday, December 16, 2019 5:13:11 AM MST Kamil Paral wrote:
> It's very important to understand that dropping a release criterion for
> optical boot doesn't mean Fedora can't be installed from a DVD in the
> future. The bugs that affect just bare-metal optical booting (and not
> virtual machines
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 09:19:55AM +0100, Lukas Brabec wrote:
> The oldest laptops I have experience with are HP 4520s and Lenovo
> X201i, both from 2010, both support USB boot.
I still have two AMD server motherboards deployed that don't support
booting off of USB sticks. But to give an idea o
On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 9:40 PM Ben Cotton wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Drop_Optical_Media_Criterion
>
> = Drop Optical Media Release Criterion =
>
> == Summary ==
> Proposal to make all Fedora optical media non-blocking. This means
> we'd stop blocking on bugs found during the
Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 7:37 PM John M. Harris Jr
> wrote:
>> It's certainly true that Apple will not service your hardware if you've
>> got an OS other than their proprietary nonsense installed.
>
> In no way is it true, let alone certainly true.
>
> They've explicitly sup
Ryan Walklin wrote:
> Those are pretty vague references to old workstations and servers rather
> than specific make/model. Can you not use a generic rescue DVD/CD running
> something like rEFInd http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind to then actually
> boot from USB? Then you wouldn't have to faff keeping
Hi,
> Soon after release, weeks, this first update payload is easily the
> size of the Workstation Live ISO. Is it typical to setup a local
> mirror to mitigate this problem? If it were easier to setup a local
> mirror, or locally mirror a subset of the RPMs in a release, would
> that help make
On Monday, December 16, 2019 1:19:55 AM MST Lukas Brabec wrote:
[snip]
> I'm the one who usually does it [1][3][4][5], sometimes it is cmurf [2].
I saw. It's odd that Fedora supports that walled garden environment, though
that's neither here nor there. The fact that it is actually tested is why I
On Monday, December 16, 2019 12:20:32 AM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> First, I haven't claimed it's not getting tested.
Sorry, must have been a misunderstanding on my part.
> Second, you have used a fallacy of circular reasoning. The test is
> being done because it's required to be done. That the te
I'm +1.
The oldest laptops I have experience with are HP 4520s and Lenovo X201i, both
from 2010, both support USB boot.
Two biggest online stores in Czechia:
- CZC.cz lists 1422 laptops without optical drive, 128 with.
- Alza.cz lists 2223 without optical drive filter, 138 with.
Every autumn, we
On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 11:00 PM John M. Harris Jr wrote:
>
> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 9:46:21 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 9:32 PM John M. Harris Jr
> > wrote:
>
> > > It simply is not where we are now, nor have we been "for a while".
> >
> >
> > Based on what facts
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 9:46:21 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 9:32 PM John M. Harris Jr
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Sunday, December 15, 2019 9:14:53 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 7:48 PM John M. Harris Jr
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
>
On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 9:32 PM John M. Harris Jr wrote:
>
> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 9:14:53 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 7:48 PM John M. Harris Jr
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > While that may be representative of "where the market is going", it's not
> > > represent
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 9:03:06 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/
Fedora_32_Final_Release_Criteria#OS_X_dual_boot
Thank you, I'll see if anyone actually tests that, and see if we can get a
Change proposal to drop that requirement if not.
>
> >It's certainly true
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 9:14:53 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 7:48 PM John M. Harris Jr
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > While that may be representative of "where the market is going", it's not
> > representative of where we are. Please keep in mind that we support far
> > more th
On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 7:55 PM Ryan Walklin wrote:
>
> On Mon, 16 Dec 2019, at 1:45 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
>
> > The netinstall:
> > * is not usable offline,
> > * in particular, is a pain to set up if all you have is a WPA-protected
> > WLAN,
> > * or in particular, will not work at all if yo
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 9:03:43 PM MST Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said:
>
> > This change is about testing those ISO images, and whether or not those
> > ISO images are release-blocking. If it's not a valid CD image (meaning
> > it wouldn't boot when put into a
On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 7:48 PM John M. Harris Jr wrote:
>
> While that may be representative of "where the market is going", it's not
> representative of where we are. Please keep in mind that we support far more
> than just the latest generation hardware. We don't support quite as much as
> Debi
Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said:
> This change is about testing those ISO images, and whether or not those ISO
> images are release-blocking. If it's not a valid CD image (meaning it
> wouldn't
> boot when put into a real disk drive), it most likely wouldn't work in the
> virtual CD i
On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 7:37 PM John M. Harris Jr wrote:
>
> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 6:55:04 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 5:48 PM John M. Harris Jr
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sunday, December 15, 2019 5:13:22 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> > >
> > > > I spent abo
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 8:44:29 PM MST Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said:
>
> > That would be affected by this change, as... that's a virtual CD. It'd
> > have to be a valid, working CD image.
>
>
> This change is about only physical optical media, not the ISO i
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 8:36:15 PM MST Ryan Walklin wrote:
> It's a combination of the standard TianoCore/ED2K UEFI implementation with a
> handy UI/boot menu. I'm just making the point that you can use a
> combination of a rescue CD which doesn't need to be constantly upgraded and
> a USB-bas
Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said:
> That would be affected by this change, as... that's a virtual CD. It'd have
> to
> be a valid, working CD image.
This change is about only physical optical media, not the ISO images.
--
Chris Adams
___
dev
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 8:12:55 PM MST Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said:
>
> > I can provide an example or two, but I'd rather not waste time compiling a
> > list. A good example, any server using iDRAC6,7,8 or 9, such as a
> > PowerEdge R440. These are in the i
> I can provide an example or two, but I'd rather not waste time compiling a
> list. A good example, any server using iDRAC6,7,8 or 9, such as a PowerEdge
> R440. These are in the interesting edge case that I mentioned, where it
> supports USB boot if you physically connect a USB drive, but you
Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said:
> I can provide an example or two, but I'd rather not waste time compiling a
> list. A good example, any server using iDRAC6,7,8 or 9, such as a PowerEdge
> R440. These are in the interesting edge case that I mentioned, where it
> supports USB boot if y
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 7:54:05 PM MST Ryan Walklin wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Dec 2019, at 1:39 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
>
>
> > Please see the examples cited earlier in the thread, of systems that
> > cannot be installed from USB.
>
>
> Those are pretty vague references to old workstations
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019, at 1:39 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> Please see the examples cited earlier in the thread, of systems that cannot
> be
> installed from USB.
Those are pretty vague references to old workstations and servers rather than
specific make/model. Can you not use a generic rescu
Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said:
> We don't support quite as much as
> Debian, but we have many users who don't have UEFI, or have early UEFI
> firmware, which doesn't support USB boot.
There's no requirement for UEFI boot - if for some reason a system
doesn't support USB under UEFI, i
Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said:
> In fact, I just checked, and they're a standard offering
> on ALL of the current line Dell workstations which are RHEL certified.
Also, this is not true. I found the Dell Linux workstation page, and no
models on that page include an optical drive in t
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 7:38:43 PM MST Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said:
>
> > As explained earlier in this thread, DVD drives are still a standard
> > offering on prebuilt systems. In fact, I just checked, and they're a
> > standard offering on ALL of the curre
Chris Murphy wrote:
> But therein lies the advantage of a simpler optical only image, less
> likelihood for such regressions. And any netinstall can be pointed to
> any release repo, so it's not like you must have a release version of
> the image - in the worst case scenario you still wouldn't be
>
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 7:37:06 PM MST Ryan Walklin wrote:
> Presumably they all also have USB ports though? I'd be more concerned about
> this if there were significant amounts of hardware without USB drives that
> had optical drives. I'd wager the reverse (Ultrabooks, any new laptop, NUCs
>
Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said:
> As explained earlier in this thread, DVD drives are still a standard offering
> on prebuilt systems. In fact, I just checked, and they're a standard offering
> on ALL of the current line Dell workstations which are RHEL certified.
The number of Dell w
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 6:55:04 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 5:48 PM John M. Harris Jr
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Sunday, December 15, 2019 5:13:22 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> >
> > > I spent about 15 minutes on this and found exactly zero systems with
> > > DVD drives,
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019, at 1:29 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Chris Murphy wrote:
> > Three years ago I did a more involved search when looking for a new
> > laptop. Zero optical drives in new hardware. Only as external
> > accessory add-ons.
>
> Then you did not search well. The ThinkPad L440 my mother
Chris Murphy wrote:
> Three years ago I did a more involved search when looking for a new
> laptop. Zero optical drives in new hardware. Only as external
> accessory add-ons.
Then you did not search well. The ThinkPad L440 my mother bought in 2016 has
an optical drive. And even now, there are stil
On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 2:32 PM Kevin Kofler wrote:
>
> Frantisek Zatloukal wrote:
> > Just note that I mean blocking by "supported". I am not talking about
> > dropping capability of installation from optical media.
>
> But if:
> * QA does not test it, and
> * even if somebody tests it and finds
On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 5:48 PM John M. Harris Jr wrote:
>
> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 5:13:22 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> > I spent about 15 minutes on this and found exactly zero systems with
> > DVD drives, even as an option, on the Apple and Microsoft stores. None
> > for System76. And non
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 5:13:22 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote:
> I spent about 15 minutes on this and found exactly zero systems with
> DVD drives, even as an option, on the Apple and Microsoft stores. None
> for System76. And none for HP. I did find DVD drives a custom build
> option on Dell's we
On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 4:39 PM John M. Harris Jr wrote:
>
> On Sunday, December 15, 2019 1:53:15 PM MST Frantisek Zatloukal wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 9:05 PM John M. Harris Jr
> >
> > wrote:
> > > That was not brought up elsewhere in this thread. Who is considering this,
> > > and
> > >
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 1:53:15 PM MST Frantisek Zatloukal wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 9:05 PM John M. Harris Jr
>
> wrote:
> > That was not brought up elsewhere in this thread. Who is considering this,
> > and
> > why? That would mean that a large portion of users would *not be able to
Frantisek Zatloukal wrote:
> Just note that I mean blocking by "supported". I am not talking about
> dropping capability of installation from optical media.
But if:
* QA does not test it, and
* even if somebody tests it and finds it broken, the release will not get
delayed for it,
this can effec
On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 9:05 PM John M. Harris Jr
wrote:
> That was not brought up elsewhere in this thread. Who is considering this,
> and
> why? That would mean that a large portion of users would *not be able to
> install Fedora*.
>
Just note that I mean blocking by "supported". I am not talk
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