Steve Clark scl...@netwolves.com writes:
If your are concerned with boot times suspend to disk!
Suspend to disk is dead slow even with an SSD. That really is no
alternative.
Suspend to RAM is nice when it works which is about 4 times out of 5 on
this laptop. (A great improvement over a few
On 06/23/2011 03:29 AM, Benny Amorsen wrote:
Steve Clarkscl...@netwolves.com writes:
If your are concerned with boot times suspend to disk!
Suspend to disk is dead slow even with an SSD. That really is no
alternative.
Suspend to RAM is nice when it works which is about 4 times out of 5 on
Am 23.06.2011 14:10, schrieb Steve Clark:
On 06/23/2011 03:29 AM, Benny Amorsen wrote:
Steve Clark scl...@netwolves.com writes:
If your are concerned with boot times suspend to disk!
Suspend to disk is dead slow even with an SSD. That really is no
alternative.
Suspend to RAM is nice when
On 06/23/2011 08:49 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 23.06.2011 14:10, schrieb Steve Clark:
On 06/23/2011 03:29 AM, Benny Amorsen wrote:
Steve Clarkscl...@netwolves.com writes:
If your are concerned with boot times suspend to disk!
Suspend to disk is dead slow even with an SSD. That really is
On 06/17/2011 11:30 AM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
The actual Linus rule is that if it breaks user stuff it must be fixed
now or it will be reverted. Which is not impossible
If we know about the bugs we can fix them. This bug was only reported
after the release.
Rahul
--
devel mailing list
Am 17.06.2011 08:31, schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
On 06/17/2011 11:30 AM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
The actual Linus rule is that if it breaks user stuff it must be fixed
now or it will be reverted. Which is not impossible
If we know about the bugs we can fix them. This bug was only reported
On 06/17/2011 02:13 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
a needed TWO WEEKS to go in updates-testing, this is way roo long for
such a major bug preventing the user from booting the system and
it takes time until it is for normal users in stable repos too!
It is not a major bug since it is not common for
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 3:05 AM, Orcan Ogetbil oget.fed...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:48 AM, Michal Schmidt wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:14:27 -0400 Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
Having a quick look at the link and at the steps to reproduce the bug
gave me shivers. Are we really sure
2011/6/13 Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at:
Reindl Harald wrote:
and even on a new setup this should be a decision of the user
at the very beginning what init-system he wants to us
No, the choice of this kind of core under-the-hood system components should
be a decision of the
On 06/14/2011 03:15 PM, Rudolf Kastl wrote:
From experience... i prefer having two tools available atleast to do
every single job (especially when they exist) because then i have an
easy fallback if one fails. Having upstart installed on rawhide during
the f15 rawhide cycles was quite helpful
2011/6/14 Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com:
On 06/14/2011 03:15 PM, Rudolf Kastl wrote:
From experience... i prefer having two tools available atleast to do
every single job (especially when they exist) because then i have an
easy fallback if one fails. Having upstart installed on rawhide
On 06/14/2011 04:36 PM, Rudolf Kastl wrote:
I never proposed having alternatives for each of the core systems
either... There is already a viable alternative that works. inittab
contains atm exactly one line... the one with the default runlevel...
and /etc/fstab can be parsed differently if
On 06/14/2011 07:08 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 06/14/2011 04:36 PM, Rudolf Kastl wrote:
I never proposed having alternatives for each of the core systems
either... There is already a viable alternative that works. inittab
contains atm exactly one line... the one with the default runlevel...
On 06/14/2011 04:56 PM, Steve Clark wrote:
You already are maintaining multiple UI systems which seem to me to be
much more complex than
two different init systems.
Not the same thing at all. Maintenance of desktop environments doesn't
affect people outside a few people who do that. If I
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:25 PM, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote:
Well you can't expect him to test every possible scenario (no matter
how trivial it is). I never saw an fstab with a trailing slash so I
wouldn't have though about testing it either.
Same here. I actually spent a good chunk
Am 14.06.2011 15:15, schrieb Jeff Spaleta:
Is directory path handling with regard to trailing slashes something
worth adding as an autoQA test target in the future?Not just for
mount but for a group of commands? Something worth considering? I'm
happy to write the initial test script
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 5:32 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
i think this would be a good idea
PHP (my main language) is fighting with traling slash or not troubles
over all the years, but there is nothing to stop the boot-process and
systemd is a very different level of
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 5:32 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
i think this would be a good idea
PHP (my main language) is fighting with traling slash or not troubles
over all the years, but there is nothing to stop the boot-process and
systemd is
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 6:32 AM, Orcan Ogetbil oget.fed...@gmail.com wrote:
I understand the inconsistency and it is indeed a bug in mount.
Nevertheless you are missing the point. If X worked before (X=mounting
at boot with fstab containing trailing slashes), and stops working now
because
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 02:56:55AM +0200, Michal Schmidt wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 02:42:15 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote:
and why does it STOP the boot-process at a point no network is
available?
Mounts from /etc/fstab are considered required unless they are marked
with the nofail option.
Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
Having a quick look at the link and at the steps to reproduce the bug
gave me shivers. Are we really sure that systemd is ready? I mean, I
don't even call my code alpha if it can't parse a slash correctly.
How is it systemd's fault that the user's fstab is invalid?
Am 13.06.2011 05:58, schrieb Kevin Kofler:
Reindl Harald wrote:
and even on a new setup this should be a decision of the user
at the very beginning what init-system he wants to us
No, the choice of this kind of core under-the-hood system components should
be a decision of the
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:08:02 +0200 Kevin Kofler wrote:
How is it systemd's fault that the user's fstab is invalid?
A trailing slash in the mountpoint is not too common, but valid.
Michal
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Am 13.06.2011 08:48, schrieb Michal Schmidt:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:14:27 -0400 Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
Having a quick look at the link and at the steps to reproduce the bug
gave me shivers. Are we really sure that systemd is ready? I mean, I
don't even call my code alpha if it can't parse a
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
* the system is running since years
* every dist-upgrade via yum was no problem
* now see screenshot
* WTF is there to relabel if started with selinux=0-kernel-param
WHY IN THE WORLD ARE
Am 13.06.2011 09:25, schrieb Michal Schmidt:
Stop the profanities and insults, or stop posting to this mailing
list.
sorry but for a answer like below form Kevin Kofler i have no other
words as idiot, really! where is defined taht it is invalid
and why only for systemd if it is so well designed
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:26:46 +0400 Lucas wrote:
Have you notice that they use Fedora like a toy, to play with, to
test a new ideas, to try new things on it. Developers do not count it
like anything serious - it is a toy for them. Today they decided that
upstart is wrong and they need systemd,
Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 13.06.2011 05:58, schrieb Kevin Kofler:
No, the choice of this kind of core under-the-hood system components
should be a decision of the distribution.
thats freedom?
You have the freedom to fork Fedora. Good luck!
A distribution is about integration of different
On 06/13/2011 11:40 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 13.06.2011 09:37, schrieb Michal Schmidt:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:26:46 +0400 Lucas wrote:
Have you notice that they use Fedora like a toy, to play with, to
test a new ideas, to try new things on it. Developers do not count it
like anything
Reindl Harald wrote:
and some are not realizing that we are not speaking about a sound-daemon
stopping you hear music
we are speaking about the most important component of the system!
That's exactly why we shouldn't let users replace it at random.
Kevin Kofler
--
devel mailing
On 01:59:43 PM Monday, June 13, 2011 Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 13.06.2011 05:58, schrieb Kevin Kofler:
Reindl Harald wrote:
and even on a new setup this should be a decision of the user
at the very beginning what init-system he wants to us
No, the choice of this kind of core
On 02:12:43 PM Monday, June 13, 2011 Lucas wrote:
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
* the system is running since years
* every dist-upgrade via yum was no problem
* now see screenshot
* WTF is there to relabel if
* Steve Clark [13/06/2011 14:04] :
Maybe Fedora should adhere to Linus's rule that we don't have regressions
that break users stuff.
Linus has no such thing. Google the min/max incident and the amount of drivers
that were removed from the kernel tree before 2.4.0's release if you want proof.
On 06/13/2011 03:27 PM, Alexander Kurtakov wrote:
On 02:12:43 PM Monday, June 13, 2011 Lucas wrote:
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
* the system is running since years
* every dist-upgrade via yum was no problem
On 06/13/2011 05:28 PM, Steve Clark wrote:
Maybe Fedora should adhere to Linus's rule that we don't have
regressions that break users stuff.
I get the impression Fedora doesn't care about users and is only
interested in pushing the agenda
of the developers. It is too bad that Fedora doesn't
On 06/13/2011 06:10 PM, Steve Clark wrote:
On 06/13/2011 08:23 AM, Emmanuel Seyman wrote:
* Steve Clark [13/06/2011 14:04] :
Maybe Fedora should adhere to Linus's rule that we don't have regressions
that break users stuff.
Linus has no such thing. Google the min/max incident and the amount
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 3:14 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
because your fukcing holy cow
This type of language is inappropriate for a Fedora mailing list.
Please tone down the language.
--
Jared Smith
Fedora Project Leader
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Am Montag, den 13.06.2011, 01:47 +0200 schrieb Reindl Harald:
Am 13.06.2011 00:54, schrieb Christoph Wickert:
Am Sonntag, den 12.06.2011, 23:23 +0200 schrieb Reindl Harald:
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
systems
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 03:30, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 13.06.2011 09:25, schrieb Michal Schmidt:
Stop the profanities and insults, or stop posting to this mailing
list.
sorry but for a answer like below form Kevin Kofler i have no other
words as idiot, really! where is
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:39:02AM -0400, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
I do not regularly agree with Kevin Kofler, but you can call him what
you want in private email til the days are done. At this point I am
going to ask for someone from the Community Working Group to step in
and see how we
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:55:02AM -0400, Jared K. Smith wrote:
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 3:14 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
because your fukcing holy cow
This type of language is inappropriate for a Fedora mailing list.
Please tone down the language.
I'd go further than
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:45:57 +0100
Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org wrote:
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:39:02AM -0400, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
I do not regularly agree with Kevin Kofler, but you can call him
what you want in private email til the days are done. At this point
I am
On Sun, 2011-06-12 at 23:39 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 12.06.2011 23:35, schrieb Josh Boyer:
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net
wrote:
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
* the
On 06/13/2011 11:39 AM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
. At this point I am
going to ask for someone from the Community Working Group to step in
and see how we can better get along here. If you have a problem with
that, I think it would be better if you took some time off and did
something else
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:48 AM, Michal Schmidt wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 22:14:27 -0400 Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
Having a quick look at the link and at the steps to reproduce the bug
gave me shivers. Are we really sure that systemd is ready? I mean, I
don't even call my code alpha if it can't
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
* the system is running since years
* every dist-upgrade via yum was no problem
* now see screenshot
* WTF is there to relabel if started with selinux=0-kernel-param
WHY IN THE WORLD ARE USERS
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
* the system is running since years
* every dist-upgrade via yum was no problem
* now see screenshot
* WTF is
Am 12.06.2011 23:35, schrieb Josh Boyer:
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
* the system is running since years
* every dist-upgrade via yum was no
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 11:39:17PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
WTF every three years a new pig is forced to run through the city
and if any subsystem is runnign well and debugged some idiot
comes out of his hole and try replace and force everybody
to use it
I don't agree with the design or
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 12.06.2011 23:35, schrieb Josh Boyer:
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net
wrote:
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as
Am 12.06.2011 23:43, schrieb John R. Dennison:
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 11:39:17PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
WTF every three years a new pig is forced to run through the city
and if any subsystem is runnign well and debugged some idiot
comes out of his hole and try replace and force
Am 12.06.2011 23:45, schrieb Josh Boyer:
why are users of running systems are forced to change their
init-system to systemd? upstart is in the repos but ignored
I actually don't know the answer to this question other than Fedora
switched to systemd
cool - on linux the apple-way starts
On 12/06/11 22:54, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 12.06.2011 23:45, schrieb Josh Boyer:
why are users of running systems are forced to change their
init-system to systemd? upstart is in the repos but ignored
snip
Try yum install upstart,
kernel arg init=/sbin/upstart
YMMV.
--
Regards,
Frank
On Sun, 2011-06-12 at 23:23 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
I DO NOT NEED SYSTEMD ON 20 SERVERS HERE BECAUSE THEY ARE STARTING
FAST ENOUGH AND I NEED NO MAGIC WHICH THINKS KNOWS WHAT TO START
IN WHICH ORDER SINCE I KNOW WHAT IS RUNNING ON MY SYSTEMS
Why run Fedora itself on 20 servers? Those are
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
No one is stopping you from packaging upstart (assuming someone hasn't done so)
for F15.
* the system is running since years
* every dist-upgrade via yum was no problem
* now see
Am 12.06.2011 23:58, schrieb Frank Murphy:
On 12/06/11 22:54, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 12.06.2011 23:45, schrieb Josh Boyer:
why are users of running systems are forced to change their
init-system to systemd? upstart is in the repos but ignored
snip
Try yum install upstart,
kernel arg
On 06/12/2011 05:39 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 12.06.2011 23:35, schrieb Josh Boyer:
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Reindl Haraldh.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
* the system is running since
Am 13.06.2011 00:00, schrieb Mike Chambers:
On Sun, 2011-06-12 at 23:23 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
I DO NOT NEED SYSTEMD ON 20 SERVERS HERE BECAUSE THEY ARE STARTING
FAST ENOUGH AND I NEED NO MAGIC WHICH THINKS KNOWS WHAT TO START
IN WHICH ORDER SINCE I KNOW WHAT IS RUNNING ON MY SYSTEMS
Am 13.06.2011 00:13, schrieb Steve Clark:
WTF every three years a new pig is forced to run through the city
and if any subsystem is runnign well and debugged some idiot
comes out of his hole and try replace and force everybody
to use it
sarcasmdon't you know you will save 15-30 seconds
Am 13.06.2011 00:04, schrieb John Dulaney:
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
No one is stopping you from packaging upstart (assuming someone hasn't done
so) for F15.
it is in the repos
and it is replaced by systemd via yum
On 06/12/2011 06:18 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 13.06.2011 00:13, schrieb Steve Clark:
WTF every three years a new pig is forced to run through the city
and if any subsystem is runnign well and debugged some idiot
comes out of his hole and try replace and force everybody
to use it
Am 13.06.2011 00:23, schrieb Steve Clark:
On 06/12/2011 06:18 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
sarcasmdon't you know you will save 15-30 seconds each time you boot
up/sarcasm
someone come out there and show me how will a 20 second-reboot on the
vmware-guest production servers will get 20 seconds
Am Sonntag, den 12.06.2011, 23:23 +0200 schrieb Reindl Harald:
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
systems upgraded with yum still have upstart installed (I did it myself)
and you can select the init as a kernel parameter, so
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:27 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 13.06.2011 00:23, schrieb Steve Clark:
On 06/12/2011 06:18 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
sarcasmdon't you know you will save 15-30 seconds each time you boot
up/sarcasm
someone come out there and show me how will a
Am 13.06.2011 00:54, schrieb Christoph Wickert:
Am Sonntag, den 12.06.2011, 23:23 +0200 schrieb Reindl Harald:
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
systems upgraded with yum still have upstart installed (I did it myself)
and
Am 13.06.2011 00:04, schrieb John Dulaney:
PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING systemd and force upstart as before
No one is stopping you from packaging upstart (assuming someone hasn't done
so) for F15.
it is in the repos
and it is replaced by
Am 13.06.2011 02:28, schrieb John Dulaney:
not today but in some months
How so? How is it that in 'some months' you will be forced to use
systemd? Are the Chinese going to torture you until you make the
switch?
F14 EOL?
No Kernel 2.6.38 while Kernel-Update in the support-cycle not so
On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 23:23:30 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote:
* now see screenshot
That's probably
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=709681
* WTF is there to relabel if started with selinux=0-kernel-param
Although fedora-autorelabel.service is there, it does not imply that
anything is
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 00:16:00 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote:
[Sun Jun 12 23:30:40 2011] [error] (2)No such file or directory:
could not create /var/run/httpd/httpd.pid [Sun Jun 12 23:30:40 2011]
[error] httpd: could not log pid to file /var/run/httpd/httpd.pid
well this is the F14 build of Apache
Am 13.06.2011 02:38, schrieb Michal Schmidt:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 23:23:30 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote:
* now see screenshot
That's probably
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=709681
* WTF is there to relabel if started with selinux=0-kernel-param
Although
Am 13.06.2011 02:42, schrieb Michal Schmidt:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 00:16:00 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote:
[Sun Jun 12 23:30:40 2011] [error] (2)No such file or directory:
could not create /var/run/httpd/httpd.pid [Sun Jun 12 23:30:40 2011]
[error] httpd: could not log pid to file
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 02:42:15 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote:
and why does it STOP the boot-process at a point no network is
available?
Mounts from /etc/fstab are considered required unless they are marked
with the nofail option.
why does it start the relabel service i never see with selinux=0
and
Am 13.06.2011 02:56, schrieb Michal Schmidt:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 02:42:15 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote:
and why does it STOP the boot-process at a point no network is
available?
Mounts from /etc/fstab are considered required unless they are marked
with the nofail option.
why does it start
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 02:44:36 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote:
but it shows that the widely use of systemd is too soon because
this crap has to say FAILED and not OK in this case!
Apparently the httpd initscript returned with exit code 0.
A service can fail after starting successfully.
Michal
--
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 03:01:19 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 13.06.2011 02:56, schrieb Michal Schmidt:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 02:42:15 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote:
and why does it STOP the boot-process at a point no network is
available?
Mounts from /etc/fstab are considered required unless
Am 13.06.2011 03:26, schrieb Michal Schmidt:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 03:01:19 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 13.06.2011 02:56, schrieb Michal Schmidt:
interesting: mount /mnt/storage manually works after that
exclude the mountpint in /etc/fstab results in normal boot
and you have everytime
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Michal Schmidt wrote:
Have you looked at the bug I linked to?
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=709681
Is it relevant for your situation?
Having a quick look at the link and at the steps to reproduce the bug
gave me shivers. Are we really sure that
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