Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-19 Thread Kay Sievers
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 18:21, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Kay Sievers (kay.siev...@vrfy.org) said: >> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 23:27, David Michael wrote: >> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Bill Nottingham >> > wrote: >> >> Right, but that then causes 'last one wins' behavior among multiple DMs

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-19 Thread Bill Nottingham
Kay Sievers (kay.siev...@vrfy.org) said: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 23:27, David Michael wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: > >> Right, but that then causes 'last one wins' behavior among multiple DMs. > >> > >> I suppose we could use alternatives for this, as much

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-19 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Tue, 19.07.11 03:43, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Lennart Poettering > wrote: > > On Mon, 18.07.11 23:26, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote: > >> I can't see a reason to discuss /etc/sysconfig as a single unit, nor > >> to argue for removal of /e

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-19 Thread Michal Schmidt
On 07/19/2011 10:23 AM, Lucas wrote: > Right now systemd can't boot my system up, it hangs everything. You're hitting a kernel bug, don't blame systemd. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-19 Thread Lucas
You know, I am not really developer, I just a user and my laptop starts only Xorg, Apache, DNS proxy (to filter web adv sites), Privoxy, Perl and something else. Right now systemd can't boot my system up, it hangs everything. So I fixed up upstart (mainly to be able use selinux and update the

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-19 Thread Nicolas Mailhot
Le Lun 18 juillet 2011 20:57, Lennart Poettering a écrit : > No. There is no need for a directory that replaces /etc/sysconfig. It's > borked. If a daemon has not configuration file but should have one, then > fix the daemon, don't fake a configuration file. Well, really that's a bit rich commin

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > Well, if they didn't need fixed before, they'll certainly need fixed > when you make them start keeping their configuration info someplace else Yeah -- daemons that can be configured with commandline options or envvars are Just Fine. If those op

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Miloslav Trmač
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mon, 18.07.11 23:26, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote: >> I can't see a reason to discuss /etc/sysconfig as a single unit, nor >> to argue for removal of /etc/sysconfig a single unit, nor to try to >> form a definite consensus ab

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Jon Ciesla
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2011, Lennart Poettering wrote: > >> On Mon, 18.07.11 15:13, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote: >> >> > On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 20:57 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: >> > > On Mon, 18.07.11 20:54, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) >> wrote: >> > > >> > > > >> > > > Hi, >> > >

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread David Michael
Hi, On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Kay Sievers wrote: > We should not let packages create config files in lib, lib is more for > static content from rpms, not really for configuration. For the same > reason, 'systemctl enable/disable' acts on /etc only. I had imagined using alternatives would

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Adam Williamson
On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 23:14 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mon, 18.07.11 21:57, Richard W.M. Jones (rjo...@redhat.com) wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 02:46:30PM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: > > > This article recommends ending /etc/sysconfig > > > > > > http://0pointer.de/blog/proj

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Adam Williamson
On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 15:59 -0400, Tom Lane wrote: > Lennart Poettering writes: > > On Mon, 18.07.11 15:34, Tom Lane (t...@redhat.com) wrote: > >> Well, if they didn't need fixed before, they'll certainly need fixed > >> when you make them start keeping their configuration info someplace else > >>

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mon, 18.07.11 23:26, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Richard W.M. Jones > wrote: > > I'm sympathetic to Lennart's arguments, but really this should be > > discussed and decided in the context of a real, open forum, drawing > > interested people fro

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Kay Sievers
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 23:27, David Michael wrote: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: >> Right, but that then causes 'last one wins' behavior among multiple DMs. >> >> I suppose we could use alternatives for this, as much as I dislike it. > > I meant creating that symlink

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Kay Sievers
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 23:20, Mike McGrath wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jul 2011, Lennart Poettering wrote: >> Hmm? Which ones in fedora can't? Are you suggesting we are shipping >> software that cannot be modified? If so, please explain which one that >> is, since we need to remove it from the distro th

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread David Michael
Hi, On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Right, but that then causes 'last one wins' behavior among multiple DMs. > > I suppose we could use alternatives for this, as much as I dislike it. I meant creating that symlink was the replacement for /etc/sysconfig/desktop, the end-

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Miloslav Trmač
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > I'm sympathetic to Lennart's arguments, but really this should be > discussed and decided in the context of a real, open forum, drawing > interested people from all of the Linux distros (possibly BSD etc > too).  Perhaps LSB? /etc/sysc

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mon, 18.07.11 23:17, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote: > > These interfaces introduced by systemd are actually discussed in quite > > some detail on the systemd irc channel and mailing list. It's a very > > open forum, you are welcome to join. > > So Fedora is the right place to discuss re

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mon, 18.07.11 17:00, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote: > > > > > Generally speaking I like the idea of dropping /etc/sysconfig. I think > > > > > the right way it keeping minimal, standardized configuration in > > > > > /etc/services.conf/ or something like that. > > > > > > > > No. There is

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Mike McGrath
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mon, 18.07.11 15:13, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote: > > > On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 20:57 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > > On Mon, 18.07.11 20:54, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > 2011/

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Bill Nottingham
David Michael (fedora@gmail.com) said: > > what then out of interest is the replacement for a > > /etc/sysconfig/desktop file that defines which login manager should be > > the default (and which is not there by default)? Can KDM then be > > started when X starts and not GDM without the use of

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Miloslav Trmač
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mon, 18.07.11 21:57, Richard W.M. Jones (rjo...@redhat.com) wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 02:46:30PM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: >> > This article recommends ending /etc/sysconfig >> > >> > http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/on-etc-s

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread David Michael
Hi, On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:42 PM, mike cloaked wrote: > what then out of interest is the replacement for a > /etc/sysconfig/desktop file that defines which login manager should be > the default (and which is not there by default)? Can KDM then be > started when X starts and not GDM without the

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mon, 18.07.11 21:57, Richard W.M. Jones (rjo...@redhat.com) wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 02:46:30PM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: > > This article recommends ending /etc/sysconfig > > > > http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/on-etc-sysinit.html > > I'm sympathetic to Lennart's arguments, but r

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Jeff Spaleta
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 12:42 PM, mike cloaked wrote: > I guess the process can be started - but by the time it is ready for > prime time then any daemons that need to work should have been tested > to work without the need for any /etc/sysconfig/... files - just by > the way what then out of inte

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread drago01
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:00 PM, Simo Sorce wrote: > On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 21:16 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: >> On Mon, 18.07.11 15:13, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote: >> >> > On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 20:57 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: >> > > On Mon, 18.07.11 20:54, Michał Piotrowski (m

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Simo Sorce
On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 21:16 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mon, 18.07.11 15:13, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote: > > > On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 20:57 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > > On Mon, 18.07.11 20:54, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > >

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Richard W.M. Jones
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 02:46:30PM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: > This article recommends ending /etc/sysconfig > > http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/on-etc-sysinit.html I'm sympathetic to Lennart's arguments, but really this should be discussed and decided in the context of a real, open forum, drawi

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread mike cloaked
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Simo Sorce wrote: >> Some daemons cannot be "fixed", get over with this mantra that daemons >> need be fixed Lennart. > > If I were a betting man I'd wager that all the daemons we ship are > easier to "fi

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Kay Sievers
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 21:59, Tom Lane wrote: > Lennart Poettering writes: >> On Mon, 18.07.11 15:34, Tom Lane (t...@redhat.com) wrote: >>> Well, if they didn't need fixed before, they'll certainly need fixed >>> when you make them start keeping their configuration info someplace else >>> than /

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Kay Sievers
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 21:45, Adam Miller wrote: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 09:16:13PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > >> Hmm? Which ones in fedora can't? Are you suggesting we are shipping >> software that cannot be modified? If so, please explain which one that >> is, since we need to remove

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Tom Lane
Lennart Poettering writes: > On Mon, 18.07.11 15:34, Tom Lane (t...@redhat.com) wrote: >> Well, if they didn't need fixed before, they'll certainly need fixed >> when you make them start keeping their configuration info someplace else >> than /etc/sysconfig. This proposal sounds more like "wait,

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mon, 18.07.11 15:34, Tom Lane (t...@redhat.com) wrote: > > Simo Sorce writes: > > On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 20:57 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/on-etc-sysinit.html > > >> No. There is no need for a directory that replaces /etc/sysconfig. It's > >> bork

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Adam Miller
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 09:16:13PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > Hmm? Which ones in fedora can't? Are you suggesting we are shipping > software that cannot be modified? If so, please explain which one that > is, since we need to remove it from the distro then. Fedora only > includess Free Sof

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Tom Lane
Simo Sorce writes: > On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 20:57 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/on-etc-sysinit.html >> No. There is no need for a directory that replaces /etc/sysconfig. It's >> borked. If a daemon has not configuration file but should have one, then >> fi

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Jeff Spaleta
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Simo Sorce wrote: > Some daemons cannot be "fixed", get over with this mantra that daemons > need be fixed Lennart. If I were a betting man I'd wager that all the daemons we ship are easier to "fix" than the US deficit (in both the technical sense and in the

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mon, 18.07.11 15:13, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote: > On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 20:57 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > On Mon, 18.07.11 20:54, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > 2011/7/18 Neal Becker : > > > > This article recommends ending /etc

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Simo Sorce
On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 20:57 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mon, 18.07.11 20:54, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > 2011/7/18 Neal Becker : > > > This article recommends ending /etc/sysconfig > > > > > > http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/on-etc-sysinit.html >

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Jóhann B. Guðmundsson
On 07/18/2011 06:57 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mon, 18.07.11 20:54, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> 2011/7/18 Neal Becker: >>> This article recommends ending /etc/sysconfig >>> >>> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/on-etc-sysinit.html >>> >> Generally speaking I l

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mon, 18.07.11 20:54, Michał Piotrowski (mkkp...@gmail.com) wrote: > > Hi, > > 2011/7/18 Neal Becker : > > This article recommends ending /etc/sysconfig > > > > http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/on-etc-sysinit.html > > > > Generally speaking I like the idea of dropping /etc/sysconfig. I think

Re: on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Michał Piotrowski
Hi, 2011/7/18 Neal Becker : > This article recommends ending /etc/sysconfig > > http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/on-etc-sysinit.html > Generally speaking I like the idea of dropping /etc/sysconfig. I think the right way it keeping minimal, standardized configuration in /etc/services.conf/ or some

on /etc/sysconfig

2011-07-18 Thread Neal Becker
This article recommends ending /etc/sysconfig http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/on-etc-sysinit.html -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel