Re: pyorbit
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 6:58 PM, Adam Williamson adamw...@fedoraproject.org wrote: On Tue, 2015-08-18 at 10:21 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Tue, 2015-07-21 at 12:36 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/pyorbit.git/plain/dead.package last user has been retired, package EOL Error: nothing provides pyorbit(x86-64) = 2.0.1 needed by gnome -bpython2-bonobo-2.28.1-16.fc23.x86_64 What's the full story here? Where has this been discussed/announced? Note that some distro tools require this - at least policycoreutils -gui does. The good news is I'm fairly sure that dependency at least is trivially removable, working on it now. Bad news: no, it's not that simple at all. Uses a bunch of old crap in its glade file, that requires the app code to have done gnome_program_init(), which for python stuff is in gnome-python2. I thought the gnome.program_init() calls were basically unnecessary, but nope, needed. I am not up for bashing on this stuff right now. So, system-config-selinux and sepolgengui are going to be broken until someone ports them to something newer, or someone resurrects pyorbit. I made the decision last we to restore it, have now done so. Can re-assess better next cycle when hopefully dnf repoquery will actually be fit for purpose :) -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: pyorbit
On Ter, 2015-08-18 at 10:58 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Tue, 2015-08-18 at 10:21 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Tue, 2015-07-21 at 12:36 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/pyorbit.git/plain/dead.package last user has been retired, package EOL Error: nothing provides pyorbit(x86-64) = 2.0.1 needed by gnome -python2-bonobo-2.28.1-16.fc23.x86_64 What's the full story here? Where has this been discussed/announced? Note that some distro tools require this - at least policycoreutils -gui does. The good news is I'm fairly sure that dependency at least is trivially removable, working on it now. Bad news: no, it's not that simple at all. Uses a bunch of old crap in its glade file, that requires the app code to have done gnome_program_init(), which for python stuff is in gnome-python2. I thought the gnome.program_init() calls were basically unnecessary, but nope, needed. I am not up for bashing on this stuff right now. So, system-config-selinux and sepolgengui are going to be broken until someone ports them to something newer, or someone resurrects pyorbit. Hi, (looking to my notes) Looking for dependencies of pyorbit : repoquery --repoid=rawhide --whatrequires pyorbit\* gnome-python2-bonobo repoquery --repoid=rawhide --whatrequires gnome-python2\* we got some system tools in the list : policycoreutils-gui revisor-gui rhn-setup-gnome system-config-bind-0:4.0.15-10.fc23.noarch system-config-date-0:1.10.9-1.fc23.noarch system-config-httpd-5:1.5.5-9.fc23.noarch -- Sérgio M. B. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: pyorbit
On Tue, 2015-08-18 at 10:21 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Tue, 2015-07-21 at 12:36 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/pyorbit.git/plain/dead.package last user has been retired, package EOL Error: nothing provides pyorbit(x86-64) = 2.0.1 needed by gnome -python2-bonobo-2.28.1-16.fc23.x86_64 What's the full story here? Where has this been discussed/announced? Note that some distro tools require this - at least policycoreutils -gui does. The good news is I'm fairly sure that dependency at least is trivially removable, working on it now. Bad news: no, it's not that simple at all. Uses a bunch of old crap in its glade file, that requires the app code to have done gnome_program_init(), which for python stuff is in gnome-python2. I thought the gnome.program_init() calls were basically unnecessary, but nope, needed. I am not up for bashing on this stuff right now. So, system-config-selinux and sepolgengui are going to be broken until someone ports them to something newer, or someone resurrects pyorbit. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
On Fri, 2015-07-31 at 02:34 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: * the default DPI is now (at least in master) hardcoded to 96 instead of defaulting to the value actually reported by the hardware. KDE / Qt doesn't default to the value actually reported by the hardware either, because X doesn't report the size of the monitor as the DisplaySize. It just generates a DisplaySize that will result in a DPI of 96. So in almost all cases KDE / Qt carefully calculate a value that X has set up to basically always produce 96 in the first place. https://www.happyassassin.net/2015/07/09/of-dpis-desktops-and-toolkits/ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41115 (PPL IZ MAD) http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/tree/hw/xfree86/modes/xf86Rand R12.c#n787 The only case where this doesn't hold is if X configuration contains a DisplaySize (manually added by the user or by the distro or some config tool or something), or if the -dpi parameter is passed to X (in which case X generates a DisplaySize that matches the requested DPI). -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: pyorbit
On Tue, 2015-07-21 at 12:36 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/pyorbit.git/plain/dead.package last user has been retired, package EOL Error: nothing provides pyorbit(x86-64) = 2.0.1 needed by gnome -python2-bonobo-2.28.1-16.fc23.x86_64 What's the full story here? Where has this been discussed/announced? Note that some distro tools require this - at least policycoreutils-gui does. The good news is I'm fairly sure that dependency at least is trivially removable, working on it now. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
On Sat, 2015-08-01 at 03:24 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: Bastien Nocera wrote: You're just 8 years late for noticing that: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/xse ttings/gsd-xsettings-manager.c#n79 and the explanation has been here for 4 years. That is not the place I was talking about. That is the gnome-settings -daemon default, it only applies when you're running gnome-settings-daemon as your XSettings manager (i.e., basically only under GNOME). I'm talking about the toolkit default inside GTK+ 3, which is used if the XSetting is NOT set. That is what recently changed. xsettings-kde, the XSettings manager running in KDE Plasma sessions, expects the toolkit to honor the hardware DPI if the relevant XSetting is not set, as Qt does. It only sets an explicit DPI value if the user set an explicit DPI value in KDE System Settings. So GTK+ 3 now displays with the wrong font sizes in KDE Plasma sessions. In other words, xsettings-kde makes unjustified assumptions, and you blame gtk. But before we drop this as leading nowhere: what is the hardware dpi you're talking about ? Should I use the value that cairo tells me ? Or fontconfig ? or x resources ? or the display size ? or parse the edid data myself ? -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
On Sex, 2015-07-31 at 02:34 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: Matěj Cepl wrote: I take Gnumeric and Emacs, but all other ones are in-Gnome projects, aren't they (at least having repository in git.gnome.org)? Gnumeric is part of GNOME Office, so it is also under the GNOME umbrella these days. The thing is that GTK+ 3 is becoming more and more useless outside of GNOME, given their recent changes, e.g.: off topic. * client-side window decorations are more or less required. They fixed their non-CSD fallback support recently, but that only means that it draws its custom title bar underneath the WM's. * discontinued support for theme engines, which means: - theming is limited to CSS, much less flexible than C (or C++) code, - theming code can no longer be shared between GTK+ 2 and 3, - the existing oxygen-gtk3 theme no longer works, which broke Plasma integration, - efforts like the gtk-qt-engine have become completely impossible, every single theme now has to be ported to GTK+ CSS. * the default DPI is now (at least in master) hardcoded to 96 instead of defaulting to the value actually reported by the hardware. * abuse of nonstandard *-symbolic icons. Selecting monochromatic vs. colored icon should be done by selecting the theme, not the icon name, and it should adapt to the desktop. Non-GNOME desktops want colored icons, unless they're using a theme like Breeze where (almost) ALL icons are monochromatic (which also makes *-symbolic useless). Kevin Kofler -- Sérgio M. B. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
On Qua, 2015-07-29 at 18:04 +0200, Matěj Cepl wrote: On 2015-07-29, 14:31 GMT, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: FWIW I found the port of Gtk3 pretty straightforward for my Entangle application and find it quite alot nicer to work with than Gtk2 in general, so has been a big plus overall. OK, I stand corrected. I am sorry, if I sound too bitter, but I am just in the process of rewriting some gedit plugins from one version of API to another one (both inside of 3.* line) and I feel like being forced to waste my time. yeah, I feel the same and that's my point of view in this thread. Have a group or some kind of organization that could help on this translations, it could save much time to all, rather individually each one try to keep the software x or y. A group that formalize that certain software is deprecated, that advise what to do with that legacy software, share some experiences, etc. It would be only benefits, IMHO. I really liked jbrout and scribes, and both of these seem to be going to die soon. ...plenty of significant apps/projects using Gtk3 there, not least of all evolution, totem, evince, gnumeric, ephinany, emacs I take Gnumeric and Emacs, but all other ones are in-Gnome projects, aren't they (at least having repository in git.gnome.org)? Best, Matěj -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC A man once asked Mozart how to write a symphony. Mozart told him to study at the conservatory for six or eight years, then apprentice with a composer for four or five more years, then begin writing a few sonatas, pieces for string quartets, piano concertos, etc. and in another four or five years he would be ready to try a full symphony. The man said, But Mozart, didn't you write a symphony at age eight? Mozart replied, Yes, but I didn't have to ask how. -- ripped from another sig -- Sérgio M. B. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
On Qua, 2015-07-29 at 16:10 +0100, Sérgio Basto wrote: On Qua, 2015-07-29 at 10:05 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: On Wed, 2015-07-29 at 12:47 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 21:27:45 +0100, Sérgio Basto wrote: As I have thought for some time, I think we should have a team to keep packages and make migrations like gtk2 to gkt3, libgnome2, pyorbit, gnome-python2, pyhton2 to python3 , qt3 etc etc Wishful thinking. Porting from gtk2 to gtk3 is non-trivial or not even feasible in all cases (without dropping some features/implementations). Some developers are unhappy with gtk3. Others switch to Qt. There is little reason to switch from gtk2 to gtk3 if you are happy with gtk2 and don't want any newfangled stuff. gtk2 will be maintained for the forseeable future. Its a different story for the other GNOME2 era libraries mentioned here: libgnome, orbit, gnome-python2 - porting away from those is long -overdue if you haven't yet. That is the kind of information that I'm looking for , ORBit and ORBit2 this stills works ? I just checked and ORBit1, gnome-libs1 and libglade1 [1] are needed only by 2 packages : spacechart and gtkd , while gtkd have updates spacechart last update is from 2002-12 ... [1] repoquery --repoid=rawhide --whatrequires ORBit-\* gnome-libs\* libglade-1\* ORBit-devel-1:0.5.17-43.fc23.i686 ORBit-devel-1:0.5.17-43.fc23.x86_64 gnome-libs-1:1.4.2-33.fc23.i686 gnome-libs-1:1.4.2-33.fc23.x86_64 gnome-libs-devel-1:1.4.2-33.fc23.i686 gnome-libs-devel-1:1.4.2-33.fc23.x86_64 gnome-libs-devel-1:1.4.2-33.fc23.i686 gnome-libs-devel-1:1.4.2-33.fc23.x86_64 libglade-1:0.17-34.fc23.i686 libglade-1:0.17-34.fc23.x86_64 libglade-devel-1:0.17-34.fc23.i686 libglade-devel-1:0.17-34.fc23.x86_64 spacechart-0:0.9.5-14.fc22.x86_64 gtkd-0:2.4.2-50.fc22.i686 gtkd-0:2.4.2-50.fc22.x86_64 libglade-devel-1:0.17-34.fc23.i686 libglade-devel-1:0.17-34.fc23.x86_64 -- Sérgio M. B. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
Bastien Nocera wrote: You're just 8 years late for noticing that: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/xsettings/gsd-xsettings-manager.c#n79 and the explanation has been here for 4 years. That is not the place I was talking about. That is the gnome-settings-daemon default, it only applies when you're running gnome-settings-daemon as your XSettings manager (i.e., basically only under GNOME). I'm talking about the toolkit default inside GTK+ 3, which is used if the XSetting is NOT set. That is what recently changed. xsettings-kde, the XSettings manager running in KDE Plasma sessions, expects the toolkit to honor the hardware DPI if the relevant XSetting is not set, as Qt does. It only sets an explicit DPI value if the user set an explicit DPI value in KDE System Settings. So GTK+ 3 now displays with the wrong font sizes in KDE Plasma sessions. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
* Firefox is still Gtk2 (and there is only one Martin Stránský working on the transition, and although he is an übermensch, the transition is still far from complete It's been running on GTK3 in Fedora since F-22. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
- Original Message - Matěj Cepl wrote: I take Gnumeric and Emacs, but all other ones are in-Gnome projects, aren't they (at least having repository in git.gnome.org)? Gnumeric is part of GNOME Office, so it is also under the GNOME umbrella these days. The thing is that GTK+ 3 is becoming more and more useless outside of GNOME, given their recent changes, e.g.: snip * the default DPI is now (at least in master) hardcoded to 96 instead of defaulting to the value actually reported by the hardware. You're just 8 years late for noticing that: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/xsettings/gsd-xsettings-manager.c#n79 and the explanation has been here for 4 years. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
Dne 31.7.2015 v 02:34 Kevin Kofler napsal(a): * the default DPI is now (at least in master) hardcoded to 96 instead of defaulting to the value actually reported by the hardware. AdamW wrote lengthy post about DPI: https://www.happyassassin.net/2015/07/09/of-dpis-desktops-and-toolkits/ Vít -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
Matěj Cepl wrote: I take Gnumeric and Emacs, but all other ones are in-Gnome projects, aren't they (at least having repository in git.gnome.org)? Gnumeric is part of GNOME Office, so it is also under the GNOME umbrella these days. The thing is that GTK+ 3 is becoming more and more useless outside of GNOME, given their recent changes, e.g.: * client-side window decorations are more or less required. They fixed their non-CSD fallback support recently, but that only means that it draws its custom title bar underneath the WM's. * discontinued support for theme engines, which means: - theming is limited to CSS, much less flexible than C (or C++) code, - theming code can no longer be shared between GTK+ 2 and 3, - the existing oxygen-gtk3 theme no longer works, which broke Plasma integration, - efforts like the gtk-qt-engine have become completely impossible, every single theme now has to be ported to GTK+ CSS. * the default DPI is now (at least in master) hardcoded to 96 instead of defaulting to the value actually reported by the hardware. * abuse of nonstandard *-symbolic icons. Selecting monochromatic vs. colored icon should be done by selecting the theme, not the icon name, and it should adapt to the desktop. Non-GNOME desktops want colored icons, unless they're using a theme like Breeze where (almost) ALL icons are monochromatic (which also makes *-symbolic useless). Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
On 2015-07-29, 14:31 GMT, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: FWIW I found the port of Gtk3 pretty straightforward for my Entangle application and find it quite alot nicer to work with than Gtk2 in general, so has been a big plus overall. OK, I stand corrected. I am sorry, if I sound too bitter, but I am just in the process of rewriting some gedit plugins from one version of API to another one (both inside of 3.* line) and I feel like being forced to waste my time. Also, I really liked jbrout and scribes, and both of these seem to be going to die soon. ...plenty of significant apps/projects using Gtk3 there, not least of all evolution, totem, evince, gnumeric, ephinany, emacs I take Gnumeric and Emacs, but all other ones are in-Gnome projects, aren't they (at least having repository in git.gnome.org)? Best, Matěj -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC A man once asked Mozart how to write a symphony. Mozart told him to study at the conservatory for six or eight years, then apprentice with a composer for four or five more years, then begin writing a few sonatas, pieces for string quartets, piano concertos, etc. and in another four or five years he would be ready to try a full symphony. The man said, But Mozart, didn't you write a symphony at age eight? Mozart replied, Yes, but I didn't have to ask how. -- ripped from another sig -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
On Qua, 2015-07-29 at 10:05 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: On Wed, 2015-07-29 at 12:47 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 21:27:45 +0100, Sérgio Basto wrote: As I have thought for some time, I think we should have a team to keep packages and make migrations like gtk2 to gkt3, libgnome2, pyorbit, gnome-python2, pyhton2 to python3 , qt3 etc etc Wishful thinking. Porting from gtk2 to gtk3 is non-trivial or not even feasible in all cases (without dropping some features/implementations). Some developers are unhappy with gtk3. Others switch to Qt. There is little reason to switch from gtk2 to gtk3 if you are happy with gtk2 and don't want any newfangled stuff. gtk2 will be maintained for the forseeable future. Its a different story for the other GNOME2 era libraries mentioned here: libgnome, orbit, gnome-python2 - porting away from those is long -overdue if you haven't yet. That is the kind of information that I'm looking for , ORBit and ORBit2 this stills works ? Thanks, -- Sérgio M. B. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
Dne 28.7.2015 v 22:27 Sérgio Basto napsal(a): On Ter, 2015-07-28 at 16:48 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/pyorbit.git/plain/dead.package last user has been retired, package EOL Error: nothing provides pyorbit(x86-64) = 2.0.1 needed by gnome-python2-bonobo-2.28.1-16.fc23.x86_64 What's the full story here? Where has this been discussed/announced? I'm no longer interested in a response to this inquiry as I've dropped ownership of SoundConverter (which depends on gnome-python2-bonobo and some other gnome-python2-* packages). As I have thought for some time, I think we should have a team to keep packages and make migrations like gtk2 to gkt3, libgnome2, pyorbit, gnome-python2, pyhton2 to python3 , qt3 etc etc A team that take care of legacy software, preferably that update it, I got some in my own gdesklets , rawstudio, gmameui , flumontion , gtetrinet ... In the other day, thread Investigation of the F23 mass rebuild that nearly 4% of our binary packages haven't rebuilt in F23, is quite worrisome , but my question is, should we need rebuild all that is legacy software ? We have do something or helping project migrate software or make a group of legacy software, that could be not part of base of Fedora and mass rebuilds , the mummified software . Looking for dependencies of pyorbit : repoquery --repoid=rawhide --whatrequires pyorbit\* gnome-python2-bonobo repoquery --repoid=rawhide --whatrequires gnome-python2\*| wc -l 76 Looks to me, gnome-python2 is deprecated and all software that depends on should be migrated . Other example /usr/share/gnome/help , things for gnome-doc-utils, this is documentation for Gnome2 ? this isn't used anymore ? isn't ? . Anyway, we should look for this classes of software and decide what todo , instead leaving them without a plan . To have a team is nice idea, but I am a bit skeptic you will find enough volunteers. Anyway, since the cleanup of non-maintained packages, FTBFS packages or packages with broken dependencies is more aggressive then it used to be, this looks to be the plan to me ... Vít -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 21:27:45 +0100, Sérgio Basto wrote: As I have thought for some time, I think we should have a team to keep packages and make migrations like gtk2 to gkt3, libgnome2, pyorbit, gnome-python2, pyhton2 to python3 , qt3 etc etc Wishful thinking. Porting from gtk2 to gtk3 is non-trivial or not even feasible in all cases (without dropping some features/implementations). Some developers are unhappy with gtk3. Others switch to Qt. A team that take care of legacy software, preferably that update it, I got some in my own gdesklets , rawstudio, gmameui , flumontion , gtetrinet ... Eventually, unmaintained software will break when all the things around it change and nobody updates the software to reintegrate it well again. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
On 2015-07-29, 10:47 GMT, Michael Schwendt wrote: As I have thought for some time, I think we should have a team to keep packages and make migrations like gtk2 to gkt3, libgnome2, pyorbit, gnome-python2, pyhton2 to python3 , qt3 etc etc Wishful thinking. Porting from gtk2 to gtk3 is non-trivial or not even feasible in all cases (without dropping some features/implementations). Some developers are unhappy with gtk3. Others switch to Qt. I would say that the transition from Gtk2 to Gtk3 was pretty much a disaster especially in terms of the 3rd part software. * Firefox is still Gtk2 (and there is only one Martin Stránský working on the transition, and although he is an übermensch, the transition is still far from complete https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=627699; not mentioning Thunderbird https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1043146) * pidgin is still Gtk2 (and port to Gtk3 is one of the main hindrances of version 3.0 I believe) * GIMP of all programs (original software for which Gtk was created) is still Gtk2. * I know about at least two projects which are effectively dead because of missing transition and their upstream authors just gave up in disgust (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribes_%28software%29 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JBrout) * Actually, I have hard time to imagine which large 3rd party projects did switch from Gtk2 to Gtk3. Best, Matěj -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC Give a man a regular expression and he’ll match a string … teach him to make his own regular expressions and you’ve got a man with problems. -- yakugo in http://regex.info/blog/2006-09-15/247#comment-3022 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 02:07:50PM +0200, Matěj Cepl wrote: On 2015-07-29, 10:47 GMT, Michael Schwendt wrote: As I have thought for some time, I think we should have a team to keep packages and make migrations like gtk2 to gkt3, libgnome2, pyorbit, gnome-python2, pyhton2 to python3 , qt3 etc etc Wishful thinking. Porting from gtk2 to gtk3 is non-trivial or not even feasible in all cases (without dropping some features/implementations). Some developers are unhappy with gtk3. Others switch to Qt. I would say that the transition from Gtk2 to Gtk3 was pretty much a disaster especially in terms of the 3rd part software. FWIW I found the port of Gtk3 pretty straightforward for my Entangle application and find it quite alot nicer to work with than Gtk2 in general, so has been a big plus overall. I would *not* suggest that Fedora maintainers do any such porting work though, as maintaining such a fork from upstream would be seriously painful. Leave any porting work to the upstream community to decide to do, or not. * GIMP of all programs (original software for which Gtk was created) is still Gtk2. The GTK3 port is on GIMP's roadmap for their 3.0 release series, but they need to get their port to gegl finished before that http://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Roadmap * Actually, I have hard time to imagine which large 3rd party projects did switch from Gtk2 to Gtk3. As an alternative to random FUD, here's some actual data # dnf repoquery --whatrequires 'libgtk-3.so.0()(64bit)' ...plenty of significant apps/projects using Gtk3 there, not least of all evolution, totem, evince, gnumeric, ephinany, emacs Regards, Daniel -- |: http://berrange.com -o-http://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange/ :| |: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org :| |: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ :| |: http://entangle-photo.org -o- http://live.gnome.org/gtk-vnc :| -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: and legacy software Re: pyorbit
On Wed, 2015-07-29 at 12:47 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 21:27:45 +0100, Sérgio Basto wrote: As I have thought for some time, I think we should have a team to keep packages and make migrations like gtk2 to gkt3, libgnome2, pyorbit, gnome-python2, pyhton2 to python3 , qt3 etc etc Wishful thinking. Porting from gtk2 to gtk3 is non-trivial or not even feasible in all cases (without dropping some features/implementations). Some developers are unhappy with gtk3. Others switch to Qt. There is little reason to switch from gtk2 to gtk3 if you are happy with gtk2 and don't want any newfangled stuff. gtk2 will be maintained for the forseeable future. Its a different story for the other GNOME2 era libraries mentioned here: libgnome, orbit, gnome-python2 - porting away from those is long -overdue if you haven't yet. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: pyorbit
http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/pyorbit.git/plain/dead.package last user has been retired, package EOL Error: nothing provides pyorbit(x86-64) = 2.0.1 needed by gnome-python2-bonobo-2.28.1-16.fc23.x86_64 What's the full story here? Where has this been discussed/announced? I'm no longer interested in a response to this inquiry as I've dropped ownership of SoundConverter (which depends on gnome-python2-bonobo and some other gnome-python2-* packages). -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
and legacy software Re: pyorbit
On Ter, 2015-07-28 at 16:48 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/pyorbit.git/plain/dead.package last user has been retired, package EOL Error: nothing provides pyorbit(x86-64) = 2.0.1 needed by gnome-python2-bonobo-2.28.1-16.fc23.x86_64 What's the full story here? Where has this been discussed/announced? I'm no longer interested in a response to this inquiry as I've dropped ownership of SoundConverter (which depends on gnome-python2-bonobo and some other gnome-python2-* packages). As I have thought for some time, I think we should have a team to keep packages and make migrations like gtk2 to gkt3, libgnome2, pyorbit, gnome-python2, pyhton2 to python3 , qt3 etc etc A team that take care of legacy software, preferably that update it, I got some in my own gdesklets , rawstudio, gmameui , flumontion , gtetrinet ... In the other day, thread Investigation of the F23 mass rebuild that nearly 4% of our binary packages haven't rebuilt in F23, is quite worrisome , but my question is, should we need rebuild all that is legacy software ? We have do something or helping project migrate software or make a group of legacy software, that could be not part of base of Fedora and mass rebuilds , the mummified software . Looking for dependencies of pyorbit : repoquery --repoid=rawhide --whatrequires pyorbit\* gnome-python2-bonobo repoquery --repoid=rawhide --whatrequires gnome-python2\*| wc -l 76 Looks to me, gnome-python2 is deprecated and all software that depends on should be migrated . Other example /usr/share/gnome/help , things for gnome-doc-utils, this is documentation for Gnome2 ? this isn't used anymore ? isn't ? . Anyway, we should look for this classes of software and decide what todo , instead leaving them without a plan . Best regards, -- Sérgio M. B. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
pyorbit
http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/pyorbit.git/plain/dead.package last user has been retired, package EOL Error: nothing provides pyorbit(x86-64) = 2.0.1 needed by gnome-python2-bonobo-2.28.1-16.fc23.x86_64 What's the full story here? Where has this been discussed/announced? -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: pyorbit
On Ter, 2015-07-21 at 12:36 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote: http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/pyorbit.git/plain/dead.package last user has been retired, package EOL Error: nothing provides pyorbit(x86-64) = 2.0.1 needed by gnome-python2-bonobo-2.28.1-16.fc23.x86_64 What's the full story here? Where has this been discussed/announced? I would also like to know what is the plan . References : https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2015-July/212391.html Thanks, -- Sérgio M. B. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
