testing ejabberd
hi
I'm having some trouble using hyperactivity to test ejabberd.
Hyperactivity always ends up looping over unsuccessful accounts,
producing output like this:
can't connect hyperactivity-ac4ec2e2-892e-11dd-a4b7-0017c40d34e4. Remove it
have to create 1 accounts
create
accounts/gabble/schoolserver.dell.xs.laptop.org/hyperactivity-ac9cecec-892e-11dd-a4b7-0017c40d34e4.account
can't connect hyperactivity-ac6d40aa-892e-11dd-a4b7-0017c40d34e4. Remove it
have to create 1 accounts
create
accounts/gabble/schoolserver.dell.xs.laptop.org/hyperactivity-acb4ce02-892e-11dd-a4b7-0017c40d34e4.account
can't connect hyperactivity-ac85168a-892e-11dd-a4b7-0017c40d34e4. Remove it
What ejabberd says of each of these is something like:
I(0.258.0:ejabberd_listener:112) : (#Port0.464) Accepted
connection {{0,0,0,0,0,65535,44050,2588},33012} -
{{0,0,0,0,0,65535,44050,1},5222}
This would make simple sense if hyperactivity didn't succeed every now
or then. These usable accounts build up over time, so hyperactivity
ends up starting with a few of them. So in the sea of unsuccessful
creations there is every now and then a line like:
client hyperactivity-c3e52044-88f3-11dd-a913-0017c40d34e4: -- change
current activity
Although that has no server-side correspondent. The anomalous messages
on the server side are:
=INFO REPORT 2008-09-23 01:15:34 ===
I(0.386.0:ejabberd_c2s:478) :
({socket_state,gen_tcp,#Port0.451,0.385.0}) Failed legacy
authentication for
[EMAIL PROTECTED]/Telepathy
=INFO REPORT 2008-09-23 01:15:34 ===
I(0.388.0:ejabberd_c2s:438) :
({socket_state,gen_tcp,#Port0.453,0.387.0}) Accepted legacy
authentication for
[EMAIL PROTECTED]/Telepathy
=INFO REPORT 2008-09-23 01:15:34 ===
I(0.388.0:mod_shared_roster:640) : user_available for
hyperactivity-c3e52044-88f3-11dd-a913-0017c40d34e4 @
schoolserver.dell.xs.laptop.org (1 resources)
[ ... millions of the 'Accepted connection' messages, then ... ]
=INFO REPORT 2008-09-23 01:15:54 ===
I(0.388.0:ejabberd_c2s:1290) :
({socket_state,gen_tcp,#Port0.453,0.387.0}) Close session for
[EMAIL PROTECTED]/Telepathy
=INFO REPORT 2008-09-23 01:15:54 ===
I(0.388.0:mod_shared_roster:679) : unset_presence for
hyperactivity-c3e52044-88f3-11dd-a913-0017c40d34e4 @
schoolserver.dell.xs.laptop.org / Telepathy - [] (0 resources)
Has somebody seen this before? What am I doing wrong?
Douglas
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idea for running out of RAM
For the zillionth time, my kids brought my XO to a halt. They started
up two copies of Tux Paint and two copies of Colors! (BTW, boy do I
hate names with built-in sentence-ending punctuation) The end result
is that the activities die (unacceptable), usually via power button.
There are a number of different problems here. It's a UI defect that
the kids lose track of what is running and feel a need to start things
that are already running. Kids don't think I **switched** back to the
home screen. Instead, they seem to think the activity suddenly died.
It's another UI defect that they are getting switched away from the
activity at all; I'm quite sure there is no intent to go to the home
screen. It just happens randomly, being not very kid-friendly.
Intentional or (more likely) not, the kids get too many things running.
In theory the kernel will kill things as a last resort, which is awful,
but it doesn't happen because the user won't wait (hours? days?) for it.
Fully solving the problem is impossible, but we can do a lot better.
First let's rule some things out:
* the slow hang we have, causing loss of work via power button
* OOM, causing loss of work via actively killing stuff
* rlimit, causing loss of work via allocation failure
* activity grabs RAM up front, leading to one of the above
The commonality here is that, once started, an activity must never
be bothered with a memory shortage.
We can cover nearly all cases with RAM reservations. Worrying about
the other cases is not productive. Activities can lie about how much
RAM they will use. The OS itself may unexpectedly consume RAM. Again,
a perfect 100% solution is impossible but we can do a decent job.
RAM reservations go in activity.info files. They let sugar know
when to stop letting the user start new activities.
Suppose we have 256 MB, the OS consumes 176 MB, and 80 MB is left.
Activity X declares a need for 60 MB, activity Y declares a need
for 20 MB, and activity Z declares a need for 30 MB. Activities
P and Q do not declare anything. The user may thus run any of:
X
X,Y
Y,Y,Y,Y
Y,Y,Y
Y,Y
Y
Z
Z,Z
Z,Z,Y
Z,Y,Y
Z,Y
P
Q
P,...,P,Q,...,Q (unlimited) -- optional
If we allow that last option, then activities P and Q are unprotected
in every way. Any number of them can run at the same time. Crashing is
far more likely, which is bad, but existing behavior is preserved.
Note that activities which declare a RAM requirement will never run at
the same time as activities which do not. If this is allowed, then any
activity that fails to declare a RAM requirement will endanger data in
the well-behaved activities. It's an option, but a rather awful one.
To be clear: after starting 4 copies of activity Y, sugar must refuse
to start any more. It's simply not allowed, since doing so is likely
to lead to data loss.
Not every activity can declare a RAM requirement. I happen to know that
Tux Paint is fairly well behaved; it does not grow without bound.
I strongly doubt that Browse is well-behaved or ever could be.
Determining the RAM requirement for an activity goes something like
the following:
awk '/Dirty/{x+=$2} END{print x}' /proc/12345/smaps
(after exercising all functionality)
We can refine that, remembering that it will never be perfect.
Adding a bit more (5 megabytes?) to avoid the slows is important.
If an activity has lied, there isn't much that can be done. Oh well.
If the lie is caught before the system gets horribly slow, the OS
can simply increase the reservation for that activity. (either just
for that session, or persistently) The OS can log the problem, allowing
the activity developer to be flamed. Killing the lying activity is not
a good option, but it could be done, especially if some other activity
is already running. Once the slows hit, it's back to the power button.
BTW, the alternative is far more harsh yet easier for kids to deal with.
We just ditch the whole idea of letting activities run concurrently. :-)
Seriously, consider it. We're really short on RAM, and activity switching
is not at all easy for kids.
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Re: OLPC Manual, Help activity v.8
Seth Woodworth wrote: http://dev.laptop.org/~seth/Help-8.xo Version 8 people! You've been amazing. The volunteers that are cleaning up the documentation are working really hard. I've refreshed and exported another version of the help activity today and it's going to be included in the next pre-release build for 8.2: os8.2-761. This build will be created sometime early tomorrow. It's very possible that this *will be* our final release for G1G1. But remember everyone, the activity can be updated via the activity-updator if people can only *get online*. I can't be sure if I will be allowed another revision after this, but I'm going to act is if I can and continue working on the manual. Please test! --Seth The icon for the control panel has been changed, in the latest builds (it is a a wrench now). Maybe you want to update the screenshot of the xo-menu in the home view section. Best, Simon ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: cerebro's memory usage
761 and 762 have been released shortly after your mail. If you want to get in a new cerebro, you need to open a ticket, set his action to Approve for release and provide a changelog. This must be documented somewhere on the wiki but I can't find it right now. Marco On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 3:18 AM, Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried cerebro on two XOs running 760 while holding a chat session using Xavier for 24 hours and cerebro's memory usage is steady at 3.3Mb, so I could safely say that there no memory leaks there. Next I will investigate a way so that cerebro coordinates with extreme power management and does not wake up the system in that case. In the mean time, 760 is not using the latest version of cerebro. Is there going to be a newer stable? p. -- Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos Graduate student Viral Communications MIT Media Lab Tel: +1 (617) 459-6058 http://www.mit.edu/~ypod/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC library] OLPC Manual, Help activity v.8
congrats all! Seth, can you make sure the following is in the Introduction to the manual: h2About this Manual/h2 pThis manual was produced in FLOSS Manuals ( a href='http://www.flossmanuals.net'http://www.flossmanuals.net/a ). /p p This documentation is a result of a collaborative effort. Much of the material was written at a 1 week Book Sprint held in Austin Texas (Sept 2008) and managed by Adam Hyde (FLOSS Manuals) and Anne Gentle (FLOSS Manuals / Just Write Click). Participating on site at the Book Sprint were Walter Bender (Sugar), David Farning (Sugar), Adam Holt (OLPC), Brian Jordan (OLPC) Mikus Grinbergs, Janet Swisher (janetswisher.com), David Cramer (Motive), Anne Gentle and Adam Hyde. There were also many remote contributions (please see the credits on each page for details). /p p The venue was provided by Motive Inc and the event was funded by individual donations including substantial contributions from David Farning, RedHat, OLPC, and FLOSS Manuals. /p p This community documentation effort started its life as a project with Val Scarlata's students at Illinois Institute of Technology and was eventually moved to a href='http://www.wiki.laptop.org'wiki.laptop.org/a. Much of the community writing brought into FLOSS Manuals was completed by Todd Kelsey, Emily Kaplan, Anne Gentle, Adam Hyde, with editing work from Kelly Holcomb. Translations on the a href='http://www.wiki.laptop.org'wiki.laptop.org/a copies were thanks to some time-intense translation support, coordinations, and introductions by Greg DeKoenigsberg and Micheal Cooper. /pp The documentation is in continual development. To contribute to the documents, buy a book, or to check for updates please visit the FLOSS Manuals website. /p pThis documentation is free (licensed under the GPL). Please copy, change, and share freely. /p p[image - attached 200.gif] /p pFree Manuals for Free Software/p On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 20:32 -0400, Seth Woodworth wrote: http://dev.laptop.org/~seth/Help-8.xo Version 8 people! You've been amazing. The volunteers that are cleaning up the documentation are working really hard. I've refreshed and exported another version of the help activity today and it's going to be included in the next pre-release build for 8.2: os8.2-761. This build will be created sometime early tomorrow. It's very possible that this will be our final release for G1G1. But remember everyone, the activity can be updated via the activity-updator if people can only get online. I can't be sure if I will be allowed another revision after this, but I'm going to act is if I can and continue working on the manual. Please test! --Seth ___ Library mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/library -- Adam Hyde Founder FLOSS Manuals http://www.flossmanuals.net attachment: 200.gif___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: testing ejabberd
Le mardi 23 septembre 2008 à 18:22 +1200, Douglas Bagnall a écrit :
hi
I'm having some trouble using hyperactivity to test ejabberd.
Hyperactivity always ends up looping over unsuccessful accounts,
producing output like this:
can't connect hyperactivity-ac4ec2e2-892e-11dd-a4b7-0017c40d34e4. Remove it
have to create 1 accounts
create
accounts/gabble/schoolserver.dell.xs.laptop.org/hyperactivity-ac9cecec-892e-11dd-a4b7-0017c40d34e4.account
can't connect hyperactivity-ac6d40aa-892e-11dd-a4b7-0017c40d34e4. Remove it
have to create 1 accounts
create
accounts/gabble/schoolserver.dell.xs.laptop.org/hyperactivity-acb4ce02-892e-11dd-a4b7-0017c40d34e4.account
can't connect hyperactivity-ac85168a-892e-11dd-a4b7-0017c40d34e4. Remove it
What ejabberd says of each of these is something like:
I(0.258.0:ejabberd_listener:112) : (#Port0.464) Accepted
connection {{0,0,0,0,0,65535,44050,2588},33012} -
{{0,0,0,0,0,65535,44050,1},5222}
This would make simple sense if hyperactivity didn't succeed every now
or then. These usable accounts build up over time, so hyperactivity
ends up starting with a few of them. So in the sea of unsuccessful
creations there is every now and then a line like:
client hyperactivity-c3e52044-88f3-11dd-a913-0017c40d34e4: -- change
current activity
Although that has no server-side correspondent. The anomalous messages
on the server side are:
=INFO REPORT 2008-09-23 01:15:34 ===
I(0.386.0:ejabberd_c2s:478) :
({socket_state,gen_tcp,#Port0.451,0.385.0}) Failed legacy
authentication for
[EMAIL PROTECTED]/Telepathy
=INFO REPORT 2008-09-23 01:15:34 ===
I(0.388.0:ejabberd_c2s:438) :
({socket_state,gen_tcp,#Port0.453,0.387.0}) Accepted legacy
authentication for
[EMAIL PROTECTED]/Telepathy
=INFO REPORT 2008-09-23 01:15:34 ===
I(0.388.0:mod_shared_roster:640) : user_available for
hyperactivity-c3e52044-88f3-11dd-a913-0017c40d34e4 @
schoolserver.dell.xs.laptop.org (1 resources)
[ ... millions of the 'Accepted connection' messages, then ... ]
=INFO REPORT 2008-09-23 01:15:54 ===
I(0.388.0:ejabberd_c2s:1290) :
({socket_state,gen_tcp,#Port0.453,0.387.0}) Close session for
[EMAIL PROTECTED]/Telepathy
=INFO REPORT 2008-09-23 01:15:54 ===
I(0.388.0:mod_shared_roster:679) : unset_presence for
hyperactivity-c3e52044-88f3-11dd-a913-0017c40d34e4 @
schoolserver.dell.xs.laptop.org / Telepathy - [] (0 resources)
Has somebody seen this before? What am I doing wrong?
Would be helpful if you could upload Gabble log somewhere. Before
starting hyperactivity, launch Gabble manually like this:
GABBLE_PERSIST=1 GABBLE_LOGFILE=/tmp/gabble.log GABBLE_DEBUG=all
LM_DEBUG=net /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-gabble
(Gabble path can change depending on your distro).
You should have logs in /tmp/gabble.log
G.
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Re: [OLPC library] OLPC Manual, Help activity v.8
it generally looks great seth. the only thing I don't get is the 'record' shaped button up top that is labeled home. It seems to actually be linked to back. is this intentional, or the case of too much to do, too little time? yours, Bobby 2008/9/23 adam hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED]: congrats all! Seth, can you make sure the following is in the Introduction to the manual: h2About this Manual/h2 pThis manual was produced in FLOSS Manuals ( a href='http://www.flossmanuals.net'http://www.flossmanuals.net/a ). /p p This documentation is a result of a collaborative effort. Much of the material was written at a 1 week Book Sprint held in Austin Texas (Sept 2008) and managed by Adam Hyde (FLOSS Manuals) and Anne Gentle (FLOSS Manuals / Just Write Click). Participating on site at the Book Sprint were Walter Bender (Sugar), David Farning (Sugar), Adam Holt (OLPC), Brian Jordan (OLPC) Mikus Grinbergs, Janet Swisher (janetswisher.com), David Cramer (Motive), Anne Gentle and Adam Hyde. There were also many remote contributions (please see the credits on each page for details). /p p The venue was provided by Motive Inc and the event was funded by individual donations including substantial contributions from David Farning, RedHat, OLPC, and FLOSS Manuals. /p p This community documentation effort started its life as a project with Val Scarlata's students at Illinois Institute of Technology and was eventually moved to a href='http://www.wiki.laptop.org'wiki.laptop.org/a. Much of the community writing brought into FLOSS Manuals was completed by Todd Kelsey, Emily Kaplan, Anne Gentle, Adam Hyde, with editing work from Kelly Holcomb. Translations on the a href='http://www.wiki.laptop.org'wiki.laptop.org/a copies were thanks to some time-intense translation support, coordinations, and introductions by Greg DeKoenigsberg and Micheal Cooper. /pp The documentation is in continual development. To contribute to the documents, buy a book, or to check for updates please visit the FLOSS Manuals website. /p pThis documentation is free (licensed under the GPL). Please copy, change, and share freely. /p p[image - attached 200.gif] /p pFree Manuals for Free Software/p On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 20:32 -0400, Seth Woodworth wrote: http://dev.laptop.org/~seth/Help-8.xo Version 8 people! You've been amazing. The volunteers that are cleaning up the documentation are working really hard. I've refreshed and exported another version of the help activity today and it's going to be included in the next pre-release build for 8.2: os8.2-761. This build will be created sometime early tomorrow. It's very possible that this will be our final release for G1G1. But remember everyone, the activity can be updated via the activity-updator if people can only get online. I can't be sure if I will be allowed another revision after this, but I'm going to act is if I can and continue working on the manual. Please test! --Seth ___ Library mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/library -- Adam Hyde Founder FLOSS Manuals http://www.flossmanuals.net ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
Could you please elaborate on what the behavior of the Journal has to do with this thread? -walter On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 05:01:41PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: My impression, based on historical conversations with the parties involved is that there are a bunch of hackers who feel that we did ourselves a disservice by dropping _so much_ backwards compatibility, specifically with Unix filesystems and desktops, in exchange for cool ideas. The feeling is that had we traded compatibility for features less aggressively then there would be many more hackers available to help write the features since there would be many more hackers who felt it was possible to live within Sugar. This is just an impression, however. For what it's worth, it is also my impression. I have heard similarly from virtually all technically-oriented parties involved. I have heard echos of this from less technical users (e.g. teachers who are confused by the behavior of the journal). Erik -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
Well. It's off-topic. I guess it came to mind because the Journal and datastore are a point of incompatibility between Sugar and the rest of the Linux desktop world. Erik On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 08:16:25AM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: Could you please elaborate on what the behavior of the Journal has to do with this thread? -walter On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 05:01:41PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: My impression, based on historical conversations with the parties involved is that there are a bunch of hackers who feel that we did ourselves a disservice by dropping _so much_ backwards compatibility, specifically with Unix filesystems and desktops, in exchange for cool ideas. The feeling is that had we traded compatibility for features less aggressively then there would be many more hackers available to help write the features since there would be many more hackers who felt it was possible to live within Sugar. This is just an impression, however. For what it's worth, it is also my impression. I have heard similarly from virtually all technically-oriented parties involved. I have heard echos of this from less technical users (e.g. teachers who are confused by the behavior of the journal). Erik -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
Well. It's off-topic. I guess it came to mind because the Journal and datastore are a point of incompatibility between Sugar and the rest of the Linux desktop world. Erik On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 08:16:25AM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: Could you please elaborate on what the behavior of the Journal has to do with this thread? -walter On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 05:01:41PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: My impression, based on historical conversations with the parties involved is that there are a bunch of hackers who feel that we did ourselves a disservice by dropping _so much_ backwards compatibility, specifically with Unix filesystems and desktops, in exchange for cool ideas. The feeling is that had we traded compatibility for features less aggressively then there would be many more hackers available to help write the features since there would be many more hackers who felt it was possible to live within Sugar. This is just an impression, however. For what it's worth, it is also my impression. I have heard similarly from virtually all technically-oriented parties involved. I have heard echos of this from less technical users (e.g. teachers who are confused by the behavior of the journal). Erik -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] frame gets in the way when alt-tabbing
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 03:28:33PM -0400, Eben Eliason wrote: On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 3:14 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... So perhaps the best thing to do is to add a configuration option to allow the user to enable or disable this behavior? Would it be better if the frame was quickly displayed instead of sliding into view? Maybe generally we need a configuration option to turn on and off fancy animations to improve system responsiveness? Perhaps in the short term a boolean (exposed or not...I'd lean toward not) would suit. The big isue is lack of composition support. The Frame currently slides in about 1/2 as fast as I'd like it to, and choppily at that. With composition we could get smooth motion and also speed it up significantly. (The only reason it's so slow now, I believe, is because without composition we can't draw frames fast enough to convey the motion unless we increase the length of the reveal.) Both Joyride and 8.2 streams have composition enabled by default. You can test composition by running xcompmgr -d :0.0 in the terminal. Erik ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
feedback about usage of the journal in uruguay (was Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec)
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For what it's worth, it is also my impression. I have heard similarly from virtually all technically-oriented parties involved. I have heard echos of this from less technical users (e.g. teachers who are confused by the behavior of the journal). Please Erik, would you mind to share that feedback with the rest of the team? I asked you once already: http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-September/019123.html I'm devoting now my own free time to improve these issues because no resources have been allocated to the DataStore since almost a year ago (so, since before the first formal release of Sugar). I would be very glad if you decided to help this effort with feedback from the field, sincere and constructive criticism of the design goals, feedback on the implementation design and patches. Thanks, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
notes on Journal feedback (was Re: Bundle activity)
On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 09:17:16AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 10:40 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was in Uruguay more teachers asked me about issues with the Journal than anything else. I keep poking on this issue to remind people that it's not going away in the field. Could you please tell us more about the issues reported? 1) Data loss. Teachers I met mentioned seeing bugs where the students Journal was wiped clean, or where things went missing. Without live examples this is pretty hard to diagnose. Perhaps an effect of running on such an old build. 2) Journal startup failures borking the whole system / Journal never completing startup but Sugar starting. Possibly because of NAND-full. If so we have fixed it. Interestingly, I heard about kids resolving this issue manually from the command-line (although their teacher didn't know exactly what they did! I'm guessing they removed their data directory.). 3) How do I share files to/from an XO? I just did this work but now where is the resultant file? Interface with the outside world. 4) General usability concerns; questions about why the design was chosen. Difficulty finding things in the produced action history. I will try to think of more on my ride to work. Erik ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] frame gets in the way when alt-tabbing
Am 23.09.2008 um 06:21 schrieb Erik Garrison: Both Joyride and 8.2 streams have composition enabled by default. You can test composition by running xcompmgr -d :0.0 in the terminal. It is available, but the window manager does not use it, afaik. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] frame gets in the way when alt-tabbing
On 23 Sep 2008, at 15:08, Bert Freudenberg wrote: Am 23.09.2008 um 06:21 schrieb Erik Garrison: Both Joyride and 8.2 streams have composition enabled by default. You can test composition by running xcompmgr -d :0.0 in the terminal. It is available, but the window manager does not use it, afaik. - Bert - Not that I could find the xcompmgr command anyway, but if you run matchbox-window-manager -? it lists its compile time options, and there is a definite composite support no line in there. --Gary ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] frame gets in the way when alt-tabbing
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 03:21:04PM +0100, Gary C Martin wrote: On 23 Sep 2008, at 15:08, Bert Freudenberg wrote: Am 23.09.2008 um 06:21 schrieb Erik Garrison: Both Joyride and 8.2 streams have composition enabled by default. You can test composition by running xcompmgr -d :0.0 in the terminal. It is available, but the window manager does not use it, afaik. - Bert - Not that I could find the xcompmgr command anyway, but if you run matchbox-window-manager -? it lists its compile time options, and there is a definite composite support no line in there. Oops! First you have to yum install xcompmgr Erik ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: release 8.2 build 762 still has olpc-update manifest failure at line 383 problem
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 12:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The olpc_update manifest failure problem is still there. Rsyncing: etc/alsa Verifying update. Contents manifest failure at line 383 Last file examined: localtime Attempt olpc_update_irsync_pristine then it restarts the update. Huh? Which version of olpc-update are you running? If you are updating to 8.2-762 you are by definition *not* running the olpc_update of build 762, but the one from your current build. I update regularly from Update.1-708 (because I want to keep it as alternate boot) to joyride or 8.2 builds and then of course run the 708 version of olpc-update, which has this problem. So I am always using the full update option on 708, which is way faster than letting it run twice. Ton van Overbeek ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: release 8.2 build 762 still has olpc-update manifest failure at line 383 problem
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Robert Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The olpc_update manifest failure problem is still there. Rsyncing: etc/alsa Verifying update. Contents manifest failure at line 383 Last file examined: localtime Attempt olpc_update_irsync_pristine then it restarts the update. I need to know what version you are updating *from*. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: idea for running out of RAM
On Sep 23 2008, at 03:40, Albert Cahalan was caught saying:
Determining the RAM requirement for an activity goes something like
the following:
awk '/Dirty/{x+=$2} END{print x}' /proc/12345/smaps
(after exercising all functionality)
I like the idea overall but this part worries me. An activity such
as etoys has a lot of functionality.
We can refine that, remembering that it will never be perfect.
Adding a bit more (5 megabytes?) to avoid the slows is important.
If an activity has lied, there isn't much that can be done. Oh well.
If the lie is caught before the system gets horribly slow, the OS
can simply increase the reservation for that activity. (either just
for that session, or persistently) The OS can log the problem, allowing
the activity developer to be flamed. Killing the lying activity is not
a good option, but it could be done, especially if some other activity
is already running. Once the slows hit, it's back to the power button.
BTW, the alternative is far more harsh yet easier for kids to deal with.
We just ditch the whole idea of letting activities run concurrently. :-)
Seriously, consider it. We're really short on RAM, and activity switching
is not at all easy for kids.
I've been thinking to myself that this might be the right approach. While
we may think of that as limiting, for a child who has never used a computer
before, it might help focus their attention and be less confusing to
simply allow one instance of any activity to run.
We can also play tricks like saving state of an activity to flash on
alt-tab and quickly restoring it when tabbing back. This is common
in the mobile space where we want an illusion of being able to switch
between running applications. Your cellphone will most probably
never crash due to OOM, but you can often run multiple applications
on it. This won't work with shared activities or activities that
have any network sockets open, but for purely local applications
it should be do-able (though non-trivial).
Something else I am looking into for helping with memory on 8.2.1 and
9.1 is compressed caching. We can still OOM with this, but my experience
with my little playing I've done with it is that it drastically helps
keep the system useable as memory footprint increases.
~Deepak
--
Deepak Saxena - Kernel Developer - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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New joyride build 2474
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2474 Changes in build 2474 from build: 2472 Size delta: -0.92M +Thabit-fonts 0.02-3.fc9 +Mothanna-fonts 0.02-3.olpc3 -sugar-artwork 0.82.2-2.olpc3 +sugar-artwork 0.82.3-1.olpc3 -fonts-arabic 2.1-2.fc8 -kacst-fonts 1.6.2-2.fc8 -paktype-fonts 2.0-2.fc8 --- Included Thabit-fonts version 0.02-3.fc9 --- --- Included Mothanna-fonts version 0.02-3.olpc3 --- -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Tagged Journal Proposal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 C. Scott Ananian wrote: | A hand-drawn proposal for what a Journal supporting directory | traversal as well as tag space exploration is in the attached PDF. | Discussion welcome! Could you please point me to a description of the semantics for these ordered tags? Since I do not know how the tags are meant to work, I cannot provide any feedback on the UI. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjZMcUACgkQUJT6e6HFtqSAKACfelYUC+nbT6H+Ei38mXEagM3n 69gAn3lFWjXQ/tgDQ3zqyqpYO+ewnRLC =fdWU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
simple datastore replacement, take two
Hi all, have given one more push to my DS clone [0] and have reached the point where it is plug'n'play compatible with the old one except in the two following aspects: 1.- has no support for removable devices, 2.- all metadata properties are just strings. Regarding 1, I really hope we move that stuff out from the DS, because supporting multiple backends adds a lot of complexity and puts at risk our main use case: robust journal support in NAND. I don't think that we have the resources to do this correctly in the short or medium term. About 2, this DS lets activities specify their own metadata properties, but as we don't have namespaces, one activity may add one property in one format and another activity specify the same property as another format. In which format should the DS return those properties in the future? I would like to let activities themselves deal with decoding the values, so that's why to the DS metadata values are opaque byte arrays. I hope this DS will be more maintainable, faster, more robust and prepare the landing of some long needed features. I have written a bit about the goals and some design aspects in [1], I would appreciate comments and questions. I'm pretty sure that I have made some choices that are not the best ones and there will be better alternatives that aren't a big amount of work. I'll be more than happy in rewriting whatever is needed to accommodate improvements, so just shoot. Just remember that this is something that needs to land in the next release and that we cannot break everything else. [0] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/tomeu/datastore;a=summary [1] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/DatastoreRewrite Thanks, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: idea for running out of RAM
At Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:57:36 -0700,
Deepak Saxena wrote:
On Sep 23 2008, at 03:40, Albert Cahalan was caught saying:
Determining the RAM requirement for an activity goes something like
the following:
awk '/Dirty/{x+=$2} END{print x}' /proc/12345/smaps
(after exercising all functionality)
I like the idea overall but this part worries me. An activity such
as etoys has a lot of functionality.
For Etoys, the memory usage grows only when you load a project or
instanciate widgets (give or take, when you display a compressed
bitmap, it expands automatically and eats more memory, etc.). So,
about it will be 30MB and it will stay flat whatever you do. We can
reduce the base size, if that is the priority.
-- Yoshiki
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Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 02:05:55PM -0400, C. Scott Ananian wrote: A hand-drawn proposal for what a Journal supporting directory traversal as well as tag space exploration is in the attached PDF. Discussion welcome! I am unable to view this PDF. It appears blank on this end. Would you provide a PNG? Erik ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: simple datastore replacement, take two
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tomeu Vizoso wrote: | 2.- all metadata properties are just strings. I think this is a good decision (especially since by strings you mean byte arrays). However, it's not quite true. Your design actually has two classes of metadata properties: strings in metadata and files in extra_metadata. I like this design, but I think we can make it both simpler and more powerful. Consider, for example, using a single djb-style database. metadata/ author difficulty sessionkey preview Each item is stored in a file whose name is the key, and whose contents are the value. The Datastore can then provide two accessor functions: get_by_value(key) and get_by_reference(key). get_by_value() returns the contents of the file as a bytestring in memory. get_by_reference() returns the path to the metadata file, or another path linked (soft or hard) to that file. This provides all the needed functionality for large and small metadata entries. If the API requires file-like and string-like metadata to be completely distinct, for example to create a dict for the string-like metadata, then we can achieve this by using two such databases: string_metadata/ author difficulty file_metadata/ sessionkey preview I hope that these designs may allow your datastore to become even simpler. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjZPGkACgkQUJT6e6HFtqTepQCdEvOgcaFsvfmhEu0tk0q0in4A /qMAnin7C9wP/7avdyrtztd7sBXLGx8z =37uH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: release 8.2 build 762 still has olpc-update manifest failure at line 383 problem
Howdy, The line 383 localtime error went away around joyride-2344 or so and has stayed away. BTW, olpc-update has been fast and clean for a number of updates. The new build gets updated the first try without doing the 'dirty' download and install thing. Whatever y'all did is muy bueño. I am not your target user, a child, nor am I part of the Cambridge brain trust, an egghead. I am a G1G1 unreconstructed Southern California hippie that has been updating from joyride to joyride, (no signed or candidate builds), since about joyride-2276. It's addictive. I'm up to joyride-2472 right now and will probably update later today once the new build announcements slow down, (after bedtime in Boston?). ¡Gracias! --genesee ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/New-release8.2-build-762-tp570p1113417.html Sent from the OLPC Software development mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Test Results Needed for Activities in 8.2
Hi All, Closing out this thread, we have a target list of activities now. I passed your input on and we will build a release candidate with the following activities: All G1G1 activities from the first G1G1 (including all 4 TamTams) as listed at: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities#G1G1_activities plus: Implode Maze Scratch (v9) Moon Ruler Speak Wikipedia English Soon we will build a signed release candidate with those included. They need to survive a week of final testing so the list may still become shorter. Thanks for the test input on the spreadsheet and thanks to the activity authors who got back to me on short notice in direct e-mail. There will be more chances to pick activities which we manufacture on the XOs in the near future. One lesson learned is that we need to start testing and naming the target activities sooner and I need to give everyone more lead time. I will work on setting a milestone for choosing and testing activities in the next release. Thanks, Greg S Greg Smith wrote: Hi All, Thanks for all the input activities to ship with G1G1. However, I didn't get a lot of test results. The most important decision criteria is evidence that an activity is known to work well (preferably with 8.2-760 or later). I put all the main activities mentioned in Sameer's Google spreadsheet (thanks for that!): http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDghl=en There are new rows to record test results. Please add your results and send a note to this list. Best case is if you can run the tests described here on each activity: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_cases_8.2.0#Activities and record the results by creating a test case here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Form:Test_case The most important thing is a quick turn around and a person to follow up with. So just fill in the spreadsheet and post here if that is all you have time for. Questions, comments and especially test results most welcome! Thanks, Greg S PS I will post this same message on several lists. Please just reply on just one list and I'll catch it. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
On Sep 23, 2008, at 2:05 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: A hand-drawn proposal for what a Journal supporting directory traversal as well as tag space exploration is in the attached PDF. Discussion welcome! FWIW, I made several impassioned proposals for these features -- in fact, with some visual resemblance to your own -- on the Pentagram whiteboards, but the Pentagram folks were opposed on account of excess complexity. -- Ivan Krstić [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://radian.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: simple datastore replacement, take two
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tomeu Vizoso wrote: | 2.- all metadata properties are just strings. I think this is a good decision (especially since by strings you mean byte arrays). However, it's not quite true. Your design actually has two classes of metadata properties: strings in metadata and files in extra_metadata. Well, that was supposed to be an implementation detail, users of the DS only know about properties and they look all the same. I like this design, but I think we can make it both simpler and more powerful. Consider, for example, using a single djb-style database. metadata/ author difficulty sessionkey preview Each item is stored in a file whose name is the key, and whose contents are the value. I would like that much better than the current approach, but I'm worried about performance. Retrieving the metadata for an entry is currently the limiting factor in query speed, do you think this could be faster than decoding a single file with a simple format (see link below)? http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/tomeu/datastore;a=blob;f=src/olpc/datastore/metadatastore.py;h=5b607be40f8c2c7b080efd02eb759af3cb477e61;hb=HEAD#l98 I was considering rewriting that function in C so we reduce query time in 20-30%, but if people think that storing each property in its own file would make sense from a performance POV, I could give that a quick try. The Datastore can then provide two accessor functions: get_by_value(key) and get_by_reference(key). get_by_value() returns the contents of the file as a bytestring in memory. get_by_reference() returns the path to the metadata file, or another path linked (soft or hard) to that file. This provides all the needed functionality for large and small metadata entries. That sounds interesting. I guess that with a POSIX-like API implemented with FUSE we would get equivalent fucntionality? If the API requires file-like and string-like metadata to be completely distinct, for example to create a dict for the string-like metadata, then we can achieve this by using two such databases: No, no need for that. string_metadata/ author difficulty file_metadata/ sessionkey preview I hope that these designs may allow your datastore to become even simpler. Much appreciated! Thanks, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Tagged Journal Proposal
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 C. Scott Ananian wrote: | A hand-drawn proposal for what a Journal supporting directory | traversal as well as tag space exploration is in the attached PDF. | Discussion welcome! Could you please point me to a description of the semantics for these ordered tags? Since I do not know how the tags are meant to work, I cannot provide any feedback on the UI. Previous discussion: http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-September/008432.html Briefly: in addition to specifying multiple tags as a b c you can also separate some of the tags with slashes, like a/b c. A search for a/b only turns up entries tagged a/b not entries tagged b/a or a b, although a search for a b turns up all of them. Most of the tag browsing is borrowed from either gmail or epiphany; Eduardo's walkthrough of epiphany at the link above should give you a good idea. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Problem with am_ET locale definition in Glibc
Hi Daniel, Just noticed that the LC_IDENTIFICATION in the am_ET locale data file[1] defines the following variables as language am territory ET Ideally it should be language Amharic territory Ethiopia Thanks, Sayamindu [1] http://sourceware.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/libc/localedata/locales/am_ET?rev=1.3.2.2content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markupcvsroot=glibc -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Tagged Journal Proposal
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 C. Scott Ananian wrote: | On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz | [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | Hash: SHA1 | | C. Scott Ananian wrote: | | A hand-drawn proposal for what a Journal supporting directory | | traversal as well as tag space exploration is in the attached PDF. | | Discussion welcome! | | Could you please point me to a description of the semantics for these | ordered tags? Since I do not know how the tags are meant to work, I | cannot provide any feedback on the UI. | | Previous discussion: | http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-September/008432.html | | Briefly: in addition to specifying multiple tags as a b c you can | also separate some of the tags with slashes, like a/b c. A search | for a/b only turns up entries tagged a/b not entries tagged b/a | or a b, although a search for a b turns up all of them. OK, so if I understand you correctly, you are not actually adding any semantics at all to the tags. What you are saying is that I can tag objects with arbitrary strings that may include the / character, and then filter objects by substring search on their tags. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjZWOsACgkQUJT6e6HFtqRBpgCfd+Gxdi1Jfmam1++tTZLtyiBP d60AniDjqESTQAMD3H+2/TYHYl36teI1 =WI64 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Tagged Journal Proposal
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Briefly: in addition to specifying multiple tags as a b c you can | also separate some of the tags with slashes, like a/b c. A search | for a/b only turns up entries tagged a/b not entries tagged b/a | or a b, although a search for a b turns up all of them. OK, so if I understand you correctly, you are not actually adding any semantics at all to the tags. What you are saying is that I can tag objects with arbitrary strings that may include the / character, and then filter objects by substring search on their tags. If you mount a USB key, and it has files in Music/Bach/Disc1, they appear in your journal's object view tagged as 'Music/Bach/Disc1'. They show up in searches for 'Music' and 'Bach'. If a legacy application saves a file to ~/Journal/cute/cats/my-picture.jpg, then my-picture.jpg shows up in the Journal tagged with 'cute/cats'. This is pretty much indistinguishable from being tagged cute cats, unless you happen to care enough to do ordered searches (young kids presumably would not). --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Eduardo H. Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, I thought you came to the conclusion that there was no use for ordered tags. What changed your mind? Was it the abilty to browse hierarchical systems with the Journal? I also thought you came to the conclusion that turning directory names as tags alone worked. I would drop them if I have to, and I don't expect them to be used often, but I think having the 'escape hatch' is useful. The only time they really show up is when you're importing content from an existing legacy device. I don't expect there to be much difference in practice between browsing Activities/GCompris/Math/Easy and Activities GCompris Math Easy. And, in fact, the unordered tags might make the Activities GCompris Easy search easier to find. So, I've changed my mind from ordered tags are absolutely vital to ordered tags could be useful in edge cases. Since it's my proposal I'm drawing up, I threw them in. =) How would the results be different if you searched for: a/b a b b a No difference in the last two. The first search would only find a/b not b/a or a b or b a -- but it would also return a/b/c and c/a/b and a/b c, etc. I imagine it's your idea of having the journal be able to browse hierarchically external devices, and the current filesystem above /home/olpc/Journal ? That's there where icon in the top bar. Where = Journal (~/Journal), NAND (full filesystem), USB, SD, etc. As to Ivin's point that he brought this ui design to pentagram in the past, and it was rejected for being too complicated, If the kid doesn't use tags, then a lot of the busyness goes away. I expect that Activities would probably still come tagged as Activities; that and Trash would be the only thing in the left-hand panel. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Eduardo H. Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, so that's why you separate these legacy-hierarchical files with a light grey slash (/) . So that a kid who only knows the Journal tagging world can ignore it, and users who have know the hierarchical world can understand it and make advance usage of that knowledge when transfering from or browsing hierarchical filesystems. Exactly. =) Goof idea! I hope it's not too bad, as well. ;-) --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New joyride build 2475
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2475 Changes in build 2475 from build: 2474 Size delta: 0.00M -olpc-utils 0.86-1.olpc3 +olpc-utils 0.87-1.olpc3 -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New release8.2 build 763
http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/xo-1/streams/8.2/build763 Changes in build 763 from build: 762 Size delta: 0.00M -olpc-utils 0.86-1.olpc3 +olpc-utils 0.87-1.olpc3 -audit-libs 1.7.4-1.fc9 +audit-libs 1.7.5-1.fc9 -libcurl 7.18.2-1.fc9 +libcurl 7.18.2-5.fc9 -sugar-artwork 0.82.2-2.olpc3 +sugar-artwork 0.82.3-1.olpc3 -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/release8.2-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:05 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: c. scott ananian wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Eduardo H. Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, so that's why you separate these legacy-hierarchical files with a light grey slash (/) . So that a kid who only knows the Journal tagging world can ignore it, and users who have know the hierarchical world can understand it and make advance usage of that knowledge when transfering from or browsing hierarchical filesystems. Exactly. =) seems like acknowledging the path form of these directory-derived tags might also make working with devices for which no tag list has been, or can be, created. i.e., when you first install a large new USB stick, there will certainly be a delay before a tag index can or will be built. the grey slashes might be black during that time. Hah, you're getting into implementation details now. I believe that anyone creating indexes for or on removable devices is living in a state of sin. The searches should still work immediately, with no indexes: they might just take a while. This ends up being a recursive directory traversal, but it's not Death. That's fine, we can show the immediate results immediately, and the rest just take a while. We can probably write some hints for use during the current session, esp for large devices (attached USB cards, persistent SD) but we can't assume that these hints are persistent across mounts, or aren't corrupted in the process of removing the device. (As a special case, for devices formatted ext2/3 we can probably play some tricks with the mount count and dirty flag to let us know when it's safe to use old hints.) --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New release8.2 build 763
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Build Announcer v2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/xo-1/streams/8.2/build763 Full changelog at: http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/pilgrim;a=shortlog;h=8.2 http://mock.laptop.org/gitweb/?p=repos;a=shortlog;h=koji.dist-olpc3-testing http://mock.laptop.org/gitweb/?p=repos;a=shortlog;h=local.8.2 http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=olpc-2.6;a=shortlog;h=testing Summary changelog from my notes: #8534 fedora updates libcurl.i386 0:7.18.2-5.fc9 audit-libs.i386 0:1.7.5-1.fc9 #8612 AP icon corruption sugar-artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 #7932 failsafe disk-full script munges accented characters olpc-utils-0.87-1.olpc3.i386.rpm #8622 /etc/olpc-release has 8.2 should have 8.2.0 pilgrim commit a85d593f76e8f4c8be0ed16b60c644ee454fea76 --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Eduardo H. Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also imagine that the Extra options menu would appear in the main toolbar in the Detailed view. And aditionally, like in one of eben's mockup, once a entry is checked in this list view, either the main toolbar changes to provide contextual actions (those you placed in that menu, copy, apply label, etc.), or a new menu appears bellow the main one with these options, so as not too loose the searching/filtering features which can be handy to have for various journal entries and still have handy the search and filtering features. Top-left corner, More Actions. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
I'm paying attention to this thread, quietly. I like a lot of this. :) I'll let it continue without interfering, for now, but I wanted to point out that the new toolbar design (posted on the wiki) would make that more actions option much nicer. For that matter, as Eduardo mentions, they don't mean anything until you make a selection, so we could reveal them in a toolbar only then, perhaps. - Eben On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Eduardo H. Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also imagine that the Extra options menu would appear in the main toolbar in the Detailed view. And aditionally, like in one of eben's mockup, once a entry is checked in this list view, either the main toolbar changes to provide contextual actions (those you placed in that menu, copy, apply label, etc.), or a new menu appears bellow the main one with these options, so as not too loose the searching/filtering features which can be handy to have for various journal entries and still have handy the search and filtering features. Eduardo 2008/9/23 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: c. scott ananian wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Eduardo H. Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, so that's why you separate these legacy-hierarchical files with a light grey slash (/) . So that a kid who only knows the Journal tagging world can ignore it, and users who have know the hierarchical world can understand it and make advance usage of that knowledge when transfering from or browsing hierarchical filesystems. Exactly. =) seems like acknowledging the path form of these directory-derived tags might also make working with devices for which no tag list has been, or can be, created. i.e., when you first install a large new USB stick, there will certainly be a delay before a tag index can or will be built. the grey slashes might be black during that time. paul =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
c. scott ananian wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Eduardo H. Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, so that's why you separate these legacy-hierarchical files with a light grey slash (/) . So that a kid who only knows the Journal tagging world can ignore it, and users who have know the hierarchical world can understand it and make advance usage of that knowledge when transfering from or browsing hierarchical filesystems. Exactly. =) seems like acknowledging the path form of these directory-derived tags might also make working with devices for which no tag list has been, or can be, created. i.e., when you first install a large new USB stick, there will certainly be a delay before a tag index can or will be built. the grey slashes might be black during that time. paul =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
8.2.0 deployments
Hi, is there a list for who is anticipated to be using 8.2.0 (in contrast to 8.2.1 for example)? One reason I'm asking is that a Turkish translation update just popped in and it would be good to know if this means we need to update the package now or if it can wait for 8.2.1. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm paying attention to this thread, quietly. I like a lot of this. :) I'll let it continue without interfering, for now, but I wanted to point out that the new toolbar design (posted on the wiki) would make that more actions option much nicer. For that matter, as Eduardo mentions, they don't mean anything until you make a selection, so we could reveal them in a toolbar only then, perhaps. I believe that page for the toolbar design is (correct me if I'm wrong Eben): http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Toolbars I also REALLY like this idea. Perhaps if the journal integrates the idea of a license icon/tag, content that is backed up to the school server that is creative commons or similarly licensed could be made available to other students. I like the idea of a hierarchy of aggregation and sharing. It would also allow a form of non-real-time collaboration that we currently don't support. I am a little unsure what the Actions, Objects and Labels tabs do however. Bobby - Eben On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Eduardo H. Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also imagine that the Extra options menu would appear in the main toolbar in the Detailed view. And aditionally, like in one of eben's mockup, once a entry is checked in this list view, either the main toolbar changes to provide contextual actions (those you placed in that menu, copy, apply label, etc.), or a new menu appears bellow the main one with these options, so as not too loose the searching/filtering features which can be handy to have for various journal entries and still have handy the search and filtering features. Eduardo 2008/9/23 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: c. scott ananian wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Eduardo H. Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, so that's why you separate these legacy-hierarchical files with a light grey slash (/) . So that a kid who only knows the Journal tagging world can ignore it, and users who have know the hierarchical world can understand it and make advance usage of that knowledge when transfering from or browsing hierarchical filesystems. Exactly. =) seems like acknowledging the path form of these directory-derived tags might also make working with devices for which no tag list has been, or can be, created. i.e., when you first install a large new USB stick, there will certainly be a delay before a tag index can or will be built. the grey slashes might be black during that time. paul =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 7:36 PM, Bobby Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm paying attention to this thread, quietly. I like a lot of this. :) I'll let it continue without interfering, for now, but I wanted to point out that the new toolbar design (posted on the wiki) would make that more actions option much nicer. For that matter, as Eduardo mentions, they don't mean anything until you make a selection, so we could reveal them in a toolbar only then, perhaps. I believe that page for the toolbar design is (correct me if I'm wrong Eben): http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Toolbars That's the one. I also REALLY like this idea. Perhaps if the journal integrates the idea of a license icon/tag, content that is backed up to the school server that is creative commons or similarly licensed could be made available to other students. I like the idea of a hierarchy of aggregation and sharing. It would also allow a form of non-real-time collaboration that we currently don't support. Yeah, I'd love to see this kind of information sharing happen. I am a little unsure what the Actions, Objects and Labels tabs do however. They are alternate views, or ways of organizing, the data. The action/object split is elaborated upon in the posted Journal designs. (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Toolbars) I'm not sure what Labels is. Scott? - Eben Bobby - Eben On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Eduardo H. Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also imagine that the Extra options menu would appear in the main toolbar in the Detailed view. And aditionally, like in one of eben's mockup, once a entry is checked in this list view, either the main toolbar changes to provide contextual actions (those you placed in that menu, copy, apply label, etc.), or a new menu appears bellow the main one with these options, so as not too loose the searching/filtering features which can be handy to have for various journal entries and still have handy the search and filtering features. Eduardo 2008/9/23 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: c. scott ananian wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Eduardo H. Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, so that's why you separate these legacy-hierarchical files with a light grey slash (/) . So that a kid who only knows the Journal tagging world can ignore it, and users who have know the hierarchical world can understand it and make advance usage of that knowledge when transfering from or browsing hierarchical filesystems. Exactly. =) seems like acknowledging the path form of these directory-derived tags might also make working with devices for which no tag list has been, or can be, created. i.e., when you first install a large new USB stick, there will certainly be a delay before a tag index can or will be built. the grey slashes might be black during that time. paul =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
Scott, I thought you came to the conclusion that there was no use for ordered tags. What changed your mind? Was it the abilty to browse hierarchical systems with the Journal? I also thought you came to the conclusion that turning directory names as tags alone worked. How would the results be different if you searched for: a/b a b b a ? I imagine it's your idea of having the journal be able to browse hierarchically external devices, and the current filesystem above /home/olpc/Journal ? I love your idea of showing tags along side the journal entries. Clicking them would add them to the current search. Of course, there would be a limit to how many are shown for space-sake. As to Ivin's point that he brought this ui design to pentagram in the past, and it was rejected for being too complicated, I don't understand why they thought that. Having meta-tags (a tag which collects various tags, akin to dynamic virtual folders) and tags visible on the left would make: The most popular tags visible Tagging could be done by dnd object entries to the left-sided tags Clicking on the tags would add them to the search This seems like an easier taggin Journal to use, since tag management isn't hidden on the detailed view only. And if need be, the left tags pane could be toggled on/off by some 'tag' button. I hope Eben takes a look at your ui proposal and give it his Sugar love and polish to it :) Eduardo Eduardo 2008/9/23 Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 C. Scott Ananian wrote: | On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz | [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | Hash: SHA1 | | C. Scott Ananian wrote: | | A hand-drawn proposal for what a Journal supporting directory | | traversal as well as tag space exploration is in the attached PDF. | | Discussion welcome! | | Could you please point me to a description of the semantics for these | ordered tags? Since I do not know how the tags are meant to work, I | cannot provide any feedback on the UI. | | Previous discussion: | http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-September/008432.html | | Briefly: in addition to specifying multiple tags as a b c you can | also separate some of the tags with slashes, like a/b c. A search | for a/b only turns up entries tagged a/b not entries tagged b/a | or a b, although a search for a b turns up all of them. OK, so if I understand you correctly, you are not actually adding any semantics at all to the tags. What you are saying is that I can tag objects with arbitrary strings that may include the / character, and then filter objects by substring search on their tags. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjZWOsACgkQUJT6e6HFtqRBpgCfd+Gxdi1Jfmam1++tTZLtyiBP d60AniDjqESTQAMD3H+2/TYHYl36teI1 =WI64 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
Ah, so that's why you separate these legacy-hierarchical files with a light grey slash (/) . So that a kid who only knows the Journal tagging world can ignore it, and users who have know the hierarchical world can understand it and make advance usage of that knowledge when transfering from or browsing hierarchical filesystems. Goof idea! Eduardo 2008/9/23 C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Briefly: in addition to specifying multiple tags as a b c you can | also separate some of the tags with slashes, like a/b c. A search | for a/b only turns up entries tagged a/b not entries tagged b/a | or a b, although a search for a b turns up all of them. OK, so if I understand you correctly, you are not actually adding any semantics at all to the tags. What you are saying is that I can tag objects with arbitrary strings that may include the / character, and then filter objects by substring search on their tags. If you mount a USB key, and it has files in Music/Bach/Disc1, they appear in your journal's object view tagged as 'Music/Bach/Disc1'. They show up in searches for 'Music' and 'Bach'. If a legacy application saves a file to ~/Journal/cute/cats/my-picture.jpg, then my-picture.jpg shows up in the Journal tagged with 'cute/cats'. This is pretty much indistinguishable from being tagged cute cats, unless you happen to care enough to do ordered searches (young kids presumably would not). --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
I also imagine that the Extra options menu would appear in the main toolbar in the Detailed view. And aditionally, like in one of eben's mockup, once a entry is checked in this list view, either the main toolbar changes to provide contextual actions (those you placed in that menu, copy, apply label, etc.), or a new menu appears bellow the main one with these options, so as not too loose the searching/filtering features which can be handy to have for various journal entries and still have handy the search and filtering features. Eduardo 2008/9/23 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: c. scott ananian wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Eduardo H. Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, so that's why you separate these legacy-hierarchical files with a light grey slash (/) . So that a kid who only knows the Journal tagging world can ignore it, and users who have know the hierarchical world can understand it and make advance usage of that knowledge when transfering from or browsing hierarchical filesystems. Exactly. =) seems like acknowledging the path form of these directory-derived tags might also make working with devices for which no tag list has been, or can be, created. i.e., when you first install a large new USB stick, there will certainly be a delay before a tag index can or will be built. the grey slashes might be black during that time. paul =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New joyride build 2476
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2476 Changes in build 2476 from build: 2475 Size delta: 0.00M -kernel 2.6.25-20080922.2.olpc.38b5fedf917fc36 +kernel 2.6.25-20080923.3.olpc.f10b654367d7065 -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 8.2-760 AP connect problem
I just updated to 8.2-762 and things seemed to work better with the network connections. I'm about to update to 8.2-763 and hope to get to some more testing tomorrow. --Chris Ricardo Carrano wrote: Have you tried removing your old/previous network configuration? This can be done in the Control Panel Network Discard network history On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 2:10 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recently did a reinstall of 8.2-760 on my MP G1G1 XO. The new install seems to be very finicky about connecting to my AP: 1. mesh connect keeps trying and seems to stay there with out finishing 2. clicking on my AP circle in the Neighborhood used to stop the mesh and start the AP connect process, now the mesh connect keeps blinking and the AP always asks for the password but then fails to connect. 3. repeated clicks or waiting for some mins eventually gets an AP connection although often if the startup is not monitored the XO will select mesh and never get to the AP 4. turning on 2 XOs at the same time seems to make them both more insistent to get a mesh going rather than the AP 5. suspend and resume can cause this dance (nightmare?) to start again... ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 8.2-760 AP connect problem
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 9:31 PM, Chris Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just updated to 8.2-762 and things seemed to work better with the network connections. I'm about to update to 8.2-763 and hope to get to some more testing tomorrow. 761 included fixes for WPA-encrypted access points. Everyone: please recheck with 761 or later if you've had problems connecting. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 8.2-760 AP connect problem
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a matter of fact, I believe that the 'reset' button actually moves your old configuration aside so that you can inspect it at your leisure. (From examining the code:) This is *NOT* the case. Please don't click this button if you have important passwords stored. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
clean olpc-update needs reboot
In the process of updating 2 different G1G1 XOs from 8.2-760 to 8.2-762 this evening I made the following observations: 1. one XO completed the 'olpc-update -r 8.2-760' command without a hitch 2. the other XO seemed to start ok but then there appeared a number of error messages with terms cafe, usb,... in them and the laptop seemed to be going in to low power mode which might have been interfering with the update process 3. stopped the failing update with ^C in the console, power cycled the XO, verified that the AP was fully connected and reran the 'olpc-update -r 8.2-760' from the console. This time it worked. 4. after the upgrade, the XOs appeared to work but when I tried to access the internet via my AP (which was shown as connected by the beautiful new indicator feature...great!) the connection was not made (from Browse activity) 5. rebooting both XOs fully resulted in full network operation 6. the software updates on both XOs failed with ViewSlides (on both) and Gmail (on the one where it was installed). I've noticed that with some previous updates that an additional reboot/power cycle sometimes was needed before full and correct operation. --Chris ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Please help test our new best 8.2.0 candidate, 8.2-763!
You'll know that we're nearing the end of our arduous 8.2.0 release cycle when you see the polish and features in our new candidate build, 8.2-763, valid until Wednesday, September 30 [1]. Its changelog (from 759) is available here: http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-September/019564.html http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-September/019571.html http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-September/019616.html Please help test it according to the detailed instructions at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Friends_in_testing while we still have time to document any issues that you might find! Next, please hammer on the list of activities and content that we currently intend to ship: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1/8.2.0 (will be updated tomorrow) (NB: the activity updater should pull all this down for you, if you ask it) Currently known issues are recorded at: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_Group_Release_Notes#Build_8.2-763 and in the usual http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Trac_queries New issues should be filed in our bug-tracking system (dev.laptop.org) according to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Submitting_bugs or by notifying us by other means. Finally, for those of you anxiously waiting to test 8.2.0 builds on locked laptops, we expect to have a signed build for you this week. Watch http://wiki.laptop.org/go/ECO/8.2.0 for progress. Thanks! Michael [1]: The multi-hundred-thousand-laptop question is: 2008 or 2009? :) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: release 8.2 build 762 still has olpc-update manifest failure at line 383 problem
Updating from build 656, using olpc-update 2.7 installed per the instructions at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Olpc- update#Workaround:_updating_olpc-update Before installing the latest build I boot back into my alternate image (656) so I can test the update process to a current build from a build (656) a late G1G1 system would have. command line used : olpc-update -v 8.2-762 Note I also see the problem below if I use the --usb update option. I had hoped there would be a more recent olpc-update that was available to use when updating from the G1G1 builds that did not show this problem. /Robert H. On Sep 23, 2008, at 9:51 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Robert Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The olpc_update manifest failure problem is still there. Rsyncing: etc/alsa Verifying update. Contents manifest failure at line 383 Last file examined: localtime Attempt olpc_update_irsync_pristine then it restarts the update. I need to know what version you are updating *from*. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Tagged Journal Proposal
One extra thing that epiphany has that you didn't explicitelly showed in your mockup is, as you select/type tags, the most popular and/or recent section of the tag pane gets related tags thrown into its mix. Related tags are those which have been applied to objects along side the typed one(s). Also, what completion should be made for text typed in the Search box? I think it best to only suggest tags, not only to make it simple (and performant), but also because the object entries results could be seen as already being suggestions. As for labels, there are the static saved searches (which may be usefull to collecting for a frozen bunch of found entries), and dynamic saved searches (your fuzzy idea! Perhaps more usefull to power-users, but that is the point of sugar, let kids reach for the sky, right?). Eben also suggested once just adding an extra unique tag to a bunch of different objects, thus making a static collection of objects (So you would archive a project called Report on solar system, and this label would be added to photos, conversations, text, webpages, etc. which where part of it). Hope I've not confused this last part about collections and saved searches (it certainly is becoming confusing to me :) ) Eduardo 2008/9/24 C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 7:48 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am a little unsure what the Actions, Objects and Labels tabs do however. They are alternate views, or ways of organizing, the data. The action/object split is elaborated upon in the posted Journal designs. (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Toolbars) I'm not sure what Labels is. Scott? Yes, I drew the 'object' view. The 'action' view is at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Journal. I don't really know whether the tagging and filtering makes sense in the Action view, but I would like it to. Perhaps 'actions which include objects matching the current search' is what is displayed? The 'Labels' view is my fuzzy thinking about 'saved searches'. I'd like to be able to save any current search as a label to be applied; the 'Labels' view would let you view and edit those saved searches. I don't have a good design for that, and I'm certainly not certain it should be accorded equal weight with the 'object' and 'action' views. Ideas welcome. This is power-user territory: unless either I or someone else gets better ideas about how it would work, I'm inclined to omit it for now. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: testing ejabberd
Guillaume,
Would be helpful if you could upload Gabble log somewhere. Before
starting hyperactivity, launch Gabble manually like this:
GABBLE_PERSIST=1 GABBLE_LOGFILE=/tmp/gabble.log GABBLE_DEBUG=all
LM_DEBUG=net /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-gabble
Thanks. That was enough for me to sort it out -- the problem was
caused by ejabberd restricting the number of registrations per IP
address. Adding {registration_timeout, infinity}. to ejabberd.cfg
fixed it.
I've put the log at http://halo.gen.nz/gabble-wired-connection-1.log
but only in case you are curious.
I've tested up to about 350 users from various machines at various
activity rates. Collaboration continues to work while ejabberd is
under this load, while its memory use grows to around 160MB. I'll
report on this in more detail soon.
Douglas
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Re: idea for running out of RAM
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 3:40 AM, Albert Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For the zillionth time, my kids brought my XO to a halt. They started
up two copies of Tux Paint and two copies of Colors! (BTW, boy do I
hate names with built-in sentence-ending punctuation) The end result
is that the activities die (unacceptable), usually via power button.
There are a number of different problems here. It's a UI defect that
the kids lose track of what is running and feel a need to start things
that are already running. Kids don't think I **switched** back to the
home screen. Instead, they seem to think the activity suddenly died.
It's another UI defect that they are getting switched away from the
activity at all; I'm quite sure there is no intent to go to the home
screen. It just happens randomly, being not very kid-friendly.
Intentional or (more likely) not, the kids get too many things running.
In theory the kernel will kill things as a last resort, which is awful,
but it doesn't happen because the user won't wait (hours? days?) for it.
Fully solving the problem is impossible, but we can do a lot better.
First let's rule some things out:
* the slow hang we have, causing loss of work via power button
* OOM, causing loss of work via actively killing stuff
* rlimit, causing loss of work via allocation failure
* activity grabs RAM up front, leading to one of the above
The commonality here is that, once started, an activity must never
be bothered with a memory shortage.
We can cover nearly all cases with RAM reservations. Worrying about
the other cases is not productive. Activities can lie about how much
RAM they will use. The OS itself may unexpectedly consume RAM. Again,
a perfect 100% solution is impossible but we can do a decent job.
RAM reservations go in activity.info files. They let sugar know
when to stop letting the user start new activities.
Suppose we have 256 MB, the OS consumes 176 MB, and 80 MB is left.
Activity X declares a need for 60 MB, activity Y declares a need
for 20 MB, and activity Z declares a need for 30 MB. Activities
P and Q do not declare anything. The user may thus run any of:
X
X,Y
Y,Y,Y,Y
Y,Y,Y
Y,Y
Y
Z
Z,Z
Z,Z,Y
Z,Y,Y
Z,Y
P
Q
P,...,P,Q,...,Q (unlimited) -- optional
If we allow that last option, then activities P and Q are unprotected
in every way. Any number of them can run at the same time. Crashing is
far more likely, which is bad, but existing behavior is preserved.
Note that activities which declare a RAM requirement will never run at
the same time as activities which do not. If this is allowed, then any
activity that fails to declare a RAM requirement will endanger data in
the well-behaved activities. It's an option, but a rather awful one.
ugh, I know this is a frustrating area in general, but how
easy/intuitive is it for kids if they are running one activity for
another activity to fail to launch because it has (or doesn't have)
RAM requirements listed?
setting RAM requirements reminds me of classic macos :)
bobby
To be clear: after starting 4 copies of activity Y, sugar must refuse
to start any more. It's simply not allowed, since doing so is likely
to lead to data loss.
Not every activity can declare a RAM requirement. I happen to know that
Tux Paint is fairly well behaved; it does not grow without bound.
I strongly doubt that Browse is well-behaved or ever could be.
Determining the RAM requirement for an activity goes something like
the following:
awk '/Dirty/{x+=$2} END{print x}' /proc/12345/smaps
(after exercising all functionality)
We can refine that, remembering that it will never be perfect.
Adding a bit more (5 megabytes?) to avoid the slows is important.
If an activity has lied, there isn't much that can be done. Oh well.
If the lie is caught before the system gets horribly slow, the OS
can simply increase the reservation for that activity. (either just
for that session, or persistently) The OS can log the problem, allowing
the activity developer to be flamed. Killing the lying activity is not
a good option, but it could be done, especially if some other activity
is already running. Once the slows hit, it's back to the power button.
BTW, the alternative is far more harsh yet easier for kids to deal with.
We just ditch the whole idea of letting activities run concurrently. :-)
Seriously, consider it. We're really short on RAM, and activity switching
is not at all easy for kids.
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Re: [Server-devel] Squid tuning recommendations for OLPC School Server tuning...
2008/9/23 Martin Langhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Any way we can kludge our way around it for the time being? Does squid take any signal that gets it to shed its index? It'd be pretty trivial to write a few cachemgr hooks to implement that kind of behaviour. 'flush memory cache', 'flush disk cache entirely', etc. The trouble is that the index is -required- at the moment for the disk cache. if you flush the index you flush the disk cache entirely. There's no hard limit for squid and squid (any version) handles memory allocation failures very very poorly (read: crashes.) Is it relatively sane to run it with a tight rlimit and restart it often? Or just monitor it and restart it? It probably won't like that very much if you decide to also use disk caching. You can limit the amount of cache_mem which limits the memory cache size; you could probably modify the squid codebase to start purging objects at a certain object count rather than based on the disk+memory storage size. That wouldn't be difficult. Any chance of having patches that do this? I could probably do that in a week or so once I've finished my upcoming travel. Someone could try beating me to it.. The big problem: you won't get Squid down to 24meg of RAM with the current tuning parameters. Well, I couldn't; and I'm playing around Hmmm... with Squid on OLPC-like hardware (SBC with 500mhz geode, 256/512mb RAM.) Its something which will require quite a bit of development to slim some of the internals down to scale better with restricted memory footprints. Its on my personal TODO list (as it mostly is in line with a bunch of performance work I'm slowly working towards) but as the bulk of that is happening in my spare time, I do not have a fixed timeframe at the moment. Thanks for that -- at whatever pace, progress is progress. I'll stay tuned. I'm not on squid-devel, but generally interested in any news on this track; I'll be thankful if you CC me or rope me into relevant threads. Ok. Is there interest within the squid dev team in moving towards a memory allocation model that is more tunable and/or relies more on the abilities of modern kernels to do memory mgmt? Or an alternative approach to handle scalability (both down to small devices and up to huge kit) more dynamically and predictably? You'll generally find the squid dev team happy to move in whatever directions make sense. The problem isn't direction as so much as the coding to make it happen. Making Squid operate well in small memory footprints turns out to be quite relevant to higher performance and scalability; the problem is in the doing. I'm hoping to start work on some stuff to reduce the memory footprint in my squid-2 branch (cacheboy) once the current round of IPv6 preparation is completed and stable. The developers working on Squid-3 are talking about similar stuff. Adrian ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
