Re: 1.5 - gnome-packagekit?
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:17 PM, John Gilmore wrote: >> > One disadvantage of doing this is that it would harm the use of >> > olpc-update -- pristine updates would fail. And also the software >> > would be silently lost when an olpc-update happens, which is now > > Good thing we reinvented the wheel here. RPM packaging was too > complete and flexible for kids or teachers (or school administrators). > They're so much better off NOT being able to install any of 5,000 > packages freely contributed by talented programmers all over the > world. Slightly off topic, but reading between the lines, it seems there is something more fundamentally broken here. 5000 packages. The Apple app store adds that many new "apps" every week it seems. Why aren't there 5 million packages available instead of just 5000? What are we doing wrong as a community? I have lots of theories but would be curious if anyone had any concrete ideas. (Or maybe 5000 packages is better than 10 apps and all is well in the world?) -walter > John :-( > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 1.5 - gnome-packagekit?
On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 02:17:10PM -0800, John Gilmore wrote: > > > One disadvantage of doing this is that it would harm the use of > > > olpc-update -- pristine updates would fail. And also the software > > > would be silently lost when an olpc-update happens, which is now > > Good thing we reinvented the wheel here. RPM packaging was too > complete and flexible for kids or teachers (or school administrators). > They're so much better off NOT being able to install any of 5,000 > packages freely contributed by talented programmers all over the > world. Yes, it would have been much better to contribute to RPM development in a way that would support rollback to previous version (with the square game key), and gradual download and update that is only committed on reboot. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 8.2.2 Beta-1 test request
On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: I also installed 802B1 on one of my XO-1s today and played around with it for about an hour... =Touchpad= > Of the two XO-1s (both with the ALPS touchpad) I have around here I chose the one where the touchpad issues have been particularly annoying. In fact it was so bad that even after 5min of failed attempts I couldn't manage to even draw a single half-decent spiral in Paint on 802. 802B1 hasn't really helped there as very often the cursor now freezes completely and even after waiting for 20 seconds or doing a manual re-calibration I can't get it move more than a couple of centimeters. If I understood the issues correctly 802B1 now simply disregards suspicious looking data coming from the touchpad and it seems like that touchpad is particularly affected so basically now data makes it through at all. = Kernel = > Didn't run into any issues regarding suspend / resume. > = Wireless: Associating to Access Points and debugging = > I've had issues on 802 connecting to my WPA home-network every now and then and 802B1 seems a little more reliable there (but that's more of a gut feeling). = Startup / shutdown = > Yes, shutdown is definitely quite a bit faster compared to 802! > = OS version = > Works as advertised. = Update your Activities? = > > The "you must update your activities" dialog on first boot is gone! It > will only appear after a major upgrade (not a minor one). > Yep, the dialog was gone, updating a bunch of activities worked just fine. = Do the activities work? = > > Try out the activities included. Did I break the OS so that any > activities are failing? > With the pre-installed Record-59 I ran into lockup issues similar to what Gary has reported, the latest record (64 I believe) works fine. Measure-27 doesn't seem to do anything, I can't get it to display any input and after some random button clicks it tends to freeze so badly that only a Sugar restart helps. Cheers, Christoph -- Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, olpcnews url: www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 1.5 - gnome-packagekit?
> > One disadvantage of doing this is that it would harm the use of > > olpc-update -- pristine updates would fail. And also the software > > would be silently lost when an olpc-update happens, which is now Good thing we reinvented the wheel here. RPM packaging was too complete and flexible for kids or teachers (or school administrators). They're so much better off NOT being able to install any of 5,000 packages freely contributed by talented programmers all over the world. John :-( ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Swap to SD cards: performance and burnout test
Thanks for all your replies. I'll show you the results when we're done. What's most important to the user is probably going to be the latency > (pointer "sluggishness", UI reaction time), though, and I don't have an > idea how to test that (still keeping in mind that it needs to be > comparable and repeatable). > Agree. So long, we've seen that you can be running 15 activities (and more, but that won't make much sense) simultaneously and UI reaction time "seems" to be the same, while an XO with no swapping always crashes with 4 or 5 activities running at the same time. I'll speak to my boss and see if these subjective results are acceptable... btw, right now I'm using a Verbatim SDHC 4GB C6 card, but I'll be trying more flavours On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Neil Graham wrote: > On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 10:18 +0100, Sascha Silbe wrote: > > > I don't think it's terribly useful to test memory consuming > > > non-interactive tasks. > > The problem is that the only way to get _comparable_, _repeatable_ > > numbers is to make the test non-interactive. > Yup, but that's looking where you didn't drop your contact lens because > the light is better over here. > > > What's most important to the user is probably going to be the latency > > (pointer "sluggishness", UI reaction time), though, and I don't have an > > idea how to test that (still keeping in mind that it needs to be > > comparable and repeatable). > Simply cannot be done, User interfaces are inherently based around, > well, interfacing with the user. The user is a component of the system. > You could have a bot that does some automated clicking but you run the > risk of ignoring exactly the data that would be relevant. > > The behaviour of the user will change with he speed of the system, > sometimes that change will significantly change the speed of the system. > > An example is the user triggering an operation twice because the system > took too long to demonstrate it was responding to the first one. Even > if the double action is handled gracefully, it makes extra work to > figure out what to do. > > When my daughter was younger she would just keep on clicking on supertux > until it appeared, bringing the system to a standstill while it launched > 20 copies. > > > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- Ing. Emiliano Pastorino LATU - Plan Ceibal Av. Italia 6201 CP: 11500, Montevideo, Uruguay Tel: (598 2) 601 5773 int.: 213 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative to Create a new wireless network
Hi Reuben, Daniel, On 8 Dec 2009, at 09:59, Daniel Drake wrote: > 2009/12/8 Reuben K. Caron : >> -Create three faux "Mesh Channel #" icons in the Network view >> -When the child wants to join a mesh network they will select one of the >> networks >> -Upon selection: the XO will: 1. Scan to see if that ad-hoc network already >> exists and 2. if it does not exist the XO will create the network allowing >> other children to join it. Thanks for pushing on this again, +1 from me. I've been really worried about such a large change in existing workflows, especially with it as such a central feature. > Joining an ad-hoc network is the same process as creating one, so this > is even easier than you think. > >> The one pitfall of this idea, and I'm not sure how much of an issue this >> would be, is also the pitfall of ad-hoc networks...when the initiator of the >> ad-hoc network leaves the network fails. > > This isn't true - the network keeps on running. > > It's a good idea and is doable, although not for friday. You should > put it in trac (and the SL one too). > > The only thing to keep in mind is that ad-hoc networks are going to be > (by design) even less reliable than the mesh. So we need to be careful > which usage scenarios we push it for. Daniel: So this would nicely work around the issues you had in the thread about setting up automatic joining of ad-hoc networks to simulate current mesh like work flow. One of the three faux "Mesh Channel #" icons would need to be clicked in a conscious decision to join a network, so it would only feel like the automatic network join feature had been dropped. Regards, --Gary ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative to Create a new wireless network
On Dec 8, 2009, at 4:59 AM, Daniel Drake wrote: > It's a good idea and is doable, although not for friday. You should > put it in trac (and the SL one too). Done: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1610 http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9845 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 1.5 - gnome-packagekit?
Neil, Thanks for bringing this up. It looks like this could be of some value to deployments and something they could easily add should they choose to customize their build image. Keep up the good work and let us know how development is going. Regards, Reuben On Dec 7, 2009, at 7:54 PM, Neil Graham wrote: On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 19:13 -0500, Reuben K. Caron wrote: Since .XO and .XOL bundles were specifically designed to be "safe" for installation and removal, I'm concerned the inclusion of gnome- packagekit would allow one to more easily break their installation but I also think it would be nice for children to explore the rest of what Fedora has to provide. Perhaps this is something for Zeroinstall http://0install.net/ . ZeroInstall allows for installation of software as a user so you can do things without making system level changes. I'm working on a setup for the XO that can give you a custom environment. The entire thing goes into $HOME. I uses Zeroinstall to grab everything as needed, even the window manager. In practice the bundle comes with the window manager but that is merely as a pre- filled zeroinstall cache entry. Because everything is done at the user level, it is very hard to break things, but it still allows users to have a great deal of flexibility with their system. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 1.5 - gnome-packagekit?
On Dec 8, 2009, at 4:52 AM, Daniel Drake wrote: > 2009/12/8 Reuben K. Caron : >> -Should we include gnome-packagekit to provide such functionality? >> -Or would including it increase the complexities of managing >> deployments? > > One disadvantage of doing this is that it would harm the use of > olpc-update -- pristine updates would fail. And also the software > would be silently lost when an olpc-update happens, which is now > something we're automating in various places. I think it shouldn't be > included in the build although it can remain an option for deployments > to add it. Yes, good point. Thanks for the reminder. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Wanted: List of Sugar activities for the XO-1.5
Hi, I just wanted to add that we released a new package for FoodForce2 (ver. 4). It would be great if you could add this one from http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4206 instead of the older one. In case you have already added an older version. Regards, Mohit Taneja On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 4:04 AM, Chris Ball wrote: > Hi, > > > /home/olpc/Activities/OOo4Kids.activity/resources/program/soffice. > > Missed that, sorry. Yes, it's very easy to add such a launcher to GNOME. > > So, I think we're coming back to the same question on whether we should > add this to the build -- could we get a single activity bundle with > both English and Spanish, and still not use much more than 100M? > > If we had such an activity, I think we would want to ship it in the > release, but I'm not sure that we should ship an English-only version; > perhaps better to just let deployments pick the version with the > language they want when customizing their build, in that case. > What do other folks think? > > (Eric, sorry we haven't been helping with this. We appreciate your > work!) > > - Chris. > -- > Chris Ball > One Laptop Per Child > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Swap to SD cards: performance and burnout test
On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 10:18 +0100, Sascha Silbe wrote: > > I don't think it's terribly useful to test memory consuming > > non-interactive tasks. > The problem is that the only way to get _comparable_, _repeatable_ > numbers is to make the test non-interactive. Yup, but that's looking where you didn't drop your contact lens because the light is better over here. > What's most important to the user is probably going to be the latency > (pointer "sluggishness", UI reaction time), though, and I don't have an > idea how to test that (still keeping in mind that it needs to be > comparable and repeatable). Simply cannot be done, User interfaces are inherently based around, well, interfacing with the user. The user is a component of the system. You could have a bot that does some automated clicking but you run the risk of ignoring exactly the data that would be relevant. The behaviour of the user will change with he speed of the system, sometimes that change will significantly change the speed of the system. An example is the user triggering an operation twice because the system took too long to demonstrate it was responding to the first one. Even if the double action is handled gracefully, it makes extra work to figure out what to do. When my daughter was younger she would just keep on clicking on supertux until it appeared, bringing the system to a standstill while it launched 20 copies. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Dis is panks , again
I would recommend that you start by modifying an existing activity. Start with a simple change while you get used to the development process. See the Activity Team pages in our wiki as well: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Team -walter On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:44 AM, wrote: > Is dis necessary to learn python coz i know c,c++ and vc++. If yes, suggest > me a good tutorial on python and pygames. Thanx in advance. U ppl are really > helpful. :) > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Alternative to Create a new wireless network
2009/12/8 Reuben K. Caron : > -Create three faux "Mesh Channel #" icons in the Network view > -When the child wants to join a mesh network they will select one of the > networks > -Upon selection: the XO will: 1. Scan to see if that ad-hoc network already > exists and 2. if it does not exist the XO will create the network allowing > other children to join it. Joining an ad-hoc network is the same process as creating one, so this is even easier than you think. > The one pitfall of this idea, and I'm not sure how much of an issue this > would be, is also the pitfall of ad-hoc networks...when the initiator of the > ad-hoc network leaves the network fails. This isn't true - the network keeps on running. It's a good idea and is doable, although not for friday. You should put it in trac (and the SL one too). The only thing to keep in mind is that ad-hoc networks are going to be (by design) even less reliable than the mesh. So we need to be careful which usage scenarios we push it for. Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 1.5 - gnome-packagekit?
2009/12/8 Reuben K. Caron : > -Should we include gnome-packagekit to provide such functionality? > -Or would including it increase the complexities of managing > deployments? One disadvantage of doing this is that it would harm the use of olpc-update -- pristine updates would fail. And also the software would be silently lost when an olpc-update happens, which is now something we're automating in various places. I think it shouldn't be included in the build although it can remain an option for deployments to add it. Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Swap to SD cards: performance and burnout test
On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 01:41:13PM +1300, Neil Graham wrote: On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 19:16 +0100, Sascha Silbe wrote: On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:41:10PM -0200, Emiliano Pastorino wrote: Does anyone come out with a possible test? Compilation in general (e.g. Linux kernel or sugar-jhbuild) seems to be quite stressful to SD cards and often consumes a lot of memory, so might be a good benchmark. I don't think it's terribly useful to test memory consuming non-interactive tasks. The problem is that the only way to get _comparable_, _repeatable_ numbers is to make the test non-interactive. The easiest way to test swap performance on working data and a user interface I would guess would be to run Firefox up to 300 meg. So another option would be to run a script using hulahop (i.e. using the same engine as Browse, but without display output) with static copies of the web pages that are causing Browse to consume lots of memory. What's most important to the user is probably going to be the latency (pointer "sluggishness", UI reaction time), though, and I don't have an idea how to test that (still keeping in mind that it needs to be comparable and repeatable). CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
