Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity Central's Sugar related priorities.

2013-10-22 Thread NoiseEHC 

Hi!

Took some time but finally set up my git account...


2 Journal

This is probably the issue we have been most aware of. I've been 
thinking in the per activity datastore direction too and I think it's 
probably the best one. Though as you say that involves UI redesign and 
we would need to figure out compatibility with existing activities. 
(Please share the webkit code, I don't know if I'll have time to hack 
on it but I did think to write something like that at some point, it 
would be interesting to look at it if nothing else).




I have put the ?latest? sources here:
https://github.com/NoiseEHC/sugar-webkit-native
It requires a yum install webkitgtk3-devel to be able to compile, 
unfortunately my XO-1.75 says that there are no more mirrors to try for 
mesa and libdrm dependencies so I could not try it under an ARM XO... (I 
did try it some time ago however it just stopped working.)
You may also need to create a test2/bin directory as git does not 
include it...
The code is full of static char buffers which should be fixed and it 
also crashes on an XO when you compile with webkit2gtk...




We probably all agree that it would be awesome to have something  that 
integrates well with Sugar and works transparently by reusing existing 
web technologies. I don't think that's easy to achieve though. It has 
been said in previous discussions that without the close integration 
between activities and system, Sugar would be just yet another suite 
of educational applications (and likely not the best of them). I very 
much agree and I think it's tricky to preserve that while moving to 
frameworks which are supposed to work everywhere.


We could have started with something more web developer friendly and 
incrementally integrated it into the native Sugar platform, for 
example by redesigning the Journal in the way you described, and 
somehow adapting native activities to the new design. Instead we went 
for something targeted at the current Sugar developers with the idea 
of making it incrementally more web friendly.


I have been on the fence on what was the best approach and I still am. 
Something to consider is that we barely have the resources to maintain 
the existing native code. I doubt, for example, that we would be able 
to ship a redesigned Journal. Consider also that the people most 
involved with this work has all a good knowledge of the Sugar platform 
but are not really web developers.




I fail to see why would it be bad if Sugar would be just yet another 
suite of educational applications. Currently the close integration 
between activities and system consist only of 3 DBUS methods, 4 X 
properties, the Journal as a filesystem and the presence service (which 
is desugarized if I remember correctly, you have to use Telepathy 
directly?). In my opinion the single most important thing would be to 
allow developing sugar applications directly in the PC browser (like 
firefox or chrome). If that would work then you could just go to a web 
conference and after giving a presentation about sugar-web you could ask 
the attended crowd to help you in the workshop by converting just 
ONE/person python activity into a web one and you are done with the 
conversion in a day... Obviously it would not make converting 
Write/TurtleArt/Etoys/Scratch easy but at least the rest would be done.


Now, if you go standard web, then you do not need the X properties, 
view-source is built into the browser (DBUS HandleViewSource) and DBUS 
SetActive can be done with webkitvisibilitychange event and timers. 
The only remaining thing would be handling the DBUS Invite.
Collaboration would most likely need an OT library which should have a C 
implementation on the XO to have usable speed.
The Journal simply can be implemented by the host application by 
providing either some standard file API implementation (like 
light-swift) or just providing a virtual page with links and POST.

https://github.com/bancek/light-swift

So if you already run a node.js server then probably it could host the 
activity's html files and could provide some virtual file GET/POST 
service in

http://localhost/journal/directory.json - this is for file list
http://localhost/journal/guidcomeshere - this is for GET/POST files

My plan was to support http://localhost directly from 
sugar-webkit-native (instead using file:// to be able to OAuth) and 
query/update the journal from there too but it is simpler from node.js 
if you are running it anyways. You can also assume that web developers 
have node.js running on their dev machine or already know how to install 
it. If you forget for a while to have collaboration from web apps then 
the rest can be done in no time IMHO.


So that was my $0.02. Obviously it can be too late to change plans but 
who knows. I have uploaded the source anyway so you can use it if you want.


Regards,
Andrew


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity Central's Sugar related priorities.

2013-10-22 Thread Gonzalo Odiard 


 So that was my $0.02. Obviously it can be too late to change plans but who
 knows. I have uploaded the source anyway so you can use it if you want.


What I really don't understand is, if is all that easy why not be involved
and help?
The development of the web activities stuff was done in the open, mostly by
two developers,
manuq  dnarvaez. Then everyone who wanted help, could do it.
Say now how should be done, is  useless at least.
Talk is easy... as always, the devil is in the details. But you already
know that,
if not would not talk about unconstructive criticism

Gonzalo
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity Central's Sugar related priorities.

2013-10-22 Thread NoiseEHC 



I have put the ?latest? sources here:
https://github.com/NoiseEHC/sugar-webkit-native
It requires a yum install webkitgtk3-devel to be able to compile, 
unfortunately my XO-1.75 says that there are no more mirrors to try 
for mesa and libdrm dependencies so I could not try it under an ARM 
XO... (I did try it some time ago however it just stopped working.)
You may also need to create a test2/bin directory as git does not 
include it...
The code is full of static char buffers which should be fixed and it 
also crashes on an XO when you compile with webkit2gtk...


Ehem, the source should be in a directory called test2 so it matches the 
name in the .info file... That is why it requires a test/bin subdir...

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity Central's Sugar related priorities.

2013-10-22 Thread NoiseEHC 

On 22/10/2013 21:21, Gonzalo Odiard wrote:



So that was my $0.02. Obviously it can be too late to change plans
but who knows. I have uploaded the source anyway so you can use it
if you want.


What I really don't understand is, if is all that easy why not be 
involved and help?
The development of the web activities stuff was done in the open, 
mostly by two developers,

manuq  dnarvaez. Then everyone who wanted help, could do it.
Say now how should be done, is  useless at least.
Talk is easy... as always, the devil is in the details. But you 
already know that,

if not would not talk about unconstructive criticism

Gonzalo



You are right. The problem is that my views are exactly the opposite of 
the decided path to take. I do not help developing because I totally 
oppose the current path, meaning that I do not believe that it can work. 
All the easy talk can be useful later *if* they decide to change paths. 
Or it will just remain an interesting viewpoint, but at least I tried.
So while you are right about the Talk is easy part as well, I could 
only help developing by finishing the native webkit app (because I 
believe in it), which would be totally wasted (parallel) effort. 
Actually that was the plan but then I run out of time and realized that 
the official project went a different direction anyway.
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Re: [Server-devel] [XSCE] xsce and ansible

2013-10-22 Thread Miguel González 
(Sorry for cross posting)


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Tim Moody t...@timmoody.com wrote:

   The weekly XSCE call (Thur 2PM) was lightly attended last week because
 many were on their way to SF.  But we did spend some time on the question
 of moving to ansible as an installation mechanism and the means and timing
 of doing so.  The consensus on the call was that we should make the move,
 but that it should be gradual rather than sudden enlightenment.

 It turns out that because the directory structures of xs-config (
 github.com/XSCE/xsce) and dxs (activitycentral/dxs ) are substantially
 different (everything in plugins.d in the former and in roles in the
 latter) there are no collisions in directory names, so dxs could just be
 copied into xs-config.  So the process discussed is simply to combine both
 repos into xsce and then obsolete directories in plugins.d as confidence
 builds that the ansible playbook for a given feature works.



It sounds doable. But not sure how the transition will be. This is one
possible work breakdown in 3 phases:


Phase 1. A per service approach

I imagine we can substitute for example `named yes` in file xs-setup [1]
for something like `ansible-playbook -i ansible_hosts named.yml
--connection=local`.

```
num_ifaces=`ls /sys/class/net | wc | gawk '{print $1}'`

if [[ $num_ifaces  2 ]]; then

-named yes

+   ansible-playbook -i ansible_hosts named.yml --connection=local
squid yes

gateway yes

dhcpd yes

xs-setup-network

touch /.olpcxs-net-configured

fi
```
And the same for xs-setup.conf.


Phase 2. xs-setup delegates entire sections to a playbook

Instead of per service playbooks we'll have a playbook for every section:

- gathering facts about network including interactive questions
- installing core services
- installation of additional services
- wrapping up

For example, for core services:

```
- num_ifaces=`ls /sys/class/net | wc | gawk '{print $1}'`

- if [[ $num_ifaces  2 ]]; then

-   ansible-playbook -i ansible_hosts named.yml --connection=local
-squid yes

-gateway yes

-dhcpd yes

-xs-setup-network

-touch /.olpcxs-net-configured

- fi
+ ansible-playbook -i ansible_hosts core_services.yml --connection=local
```


Phase 3. xs-setup is just an ansible launcher

```
#!/bin/bash
# xs-setup
ansible-playbook -i ansible_hosts xs.yml --connection=local
EOF
```


The main problem I see is how to share consistently information between
xs-setup and ansible worlds.




  For those on the call, does this summarize what was said?  For those not
 on the call, does this sound like a viable plan?

 Tim




-- 
Miguel González
Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com
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Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 78, Issue 24

2013-10-22 Thread Tony Anderson 

Hi,

The 'Sugar' approach is using ejabberd (ClassRoomBroadcast, ShowNTell).
My concern is the ability of ejabberd to support use in a 30+ student 
classroom.

Does this approach appear to scale up more effectively than ejabberd?

Tony



On 10/22/2013 09:00 AM, server-devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote:

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 01:04:02 +0200
From: Santiago Rodr?guezscoll...@activitycentral.com
To: Anish Mangalan...@activitycentral.com
Cc: server-develserver-devel@lists.laptop.org
Subject: Re: [Server-devel] Xsce 0.5 ideas being discussed
Message-ID:
CAK_FLKySgFwUr1dyHudi8j2mq5bLzjtEPyjnUXqjZE=kb+7...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Hi

For the screen sharing feature, Anna and me just did a brief test using
icecast2 + gst-launcher as streaming service, and a XO1 as client with very
good results.

She also said that there was an idea floating arround, about doing the same
using vnc, so if our approach is not the correct one, please tell us.

Else, I hope we can add the playbook with the icecast2 server tomorrow.

/santi




On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:35 PM, Anish Mangalan...@activitycentral.comwrote:


Chip in on irc or here:)


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[Server-devel] Today, we ansible! ... hopefully.

2013-10-22 Thread Anish Mangal 
Hi,

Day#1 of the XSCE hacksprint involved running through the list of features
that has been proposed. We created feature page templates and drafts for
most of them here:

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Community_Edition/feature

Please go through the list, and if something attracts your attention, go
for it. If the feature already has an author listed, then you may team up
with him and get cracking.

One of the things we hope to get started on is porting the code to ansible.
Miguel suggested some approaches following from Tim's email yesterday. We
could just follow that and go thru quick port-deploy-test cycles and start
making progress.

WhatSay?

Cheers,
Anish
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