Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 11:13 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > 802.11s is not simple, nor safe. lol. That's right. Now, you are talking about DNS-SD without mDNS. Spent some good time reading up on both, and DNS-SD sounds good for what we're trying to do. Everybody uses them together, however, and all the nice libraries (avahi and friends) make no distinction between the two. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong docs - so pointers welcome. If I'm right, however, we can still write our own simple dns-sd client "glue" and a abuse named on the XS. > Please concentrate on plain 802.11 networks for now. It's not so black-and-white . Whatever its status right now, 802.11s is still an important consideration. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)
> On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Martin Langhoff > wrote: >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:17 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-) Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do). >>> >>> I think you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD. >> >> Perhaps. The paper abstract mentions both, and seems to say that the >> solution is with DNS-SD+new software. There's another paper from the >> same authors that talks about saturation in mesh networks. >> >> I'd like to read that paper (anyone got access to IEEE pubs?) . In >> fact, I'd like to find that someone has implemented DNS-SD on 802.11s >> networks and had a raging success. I want it simple and safe :-) nobody else is running 802.11s yet, so you aren't going to find reports of people using _anything_ with a raging success on 802.11s David Lang ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:17 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: >>> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x >>> >>> I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-) >>> >>> Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail >>> if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do). >> >> I think you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD. > > Perhaps. The paper abstract mentions both, and seems to say that the > solution is with DNS-SD+new software. There's another paper from the > same authors that talks about saturation in mesh networks. > > I'd like to read that paper (anyone got access to IEEE pubs?) . In > fact, I'd like to find that someone has implemented DNS-SD on 802.11s > networks and had a raging success. I want it simple and safe :-) 802.11s is not simple, nor safe. Please concentrate on plain 802.11 networks for now. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:17 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: >> http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x >> >> I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-) >> >> Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail >> if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do). > > I think you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD. Perhaps. The paper abstract mentions both, and seems to say that the solution is with DNS-SD+new software. There's another paper from the same authors that talks about saturation in mesh networks. I'd like to read that paper (anyone got access to IEEE pubs?) . In fact, I'd like to find that someone has implemented DNS-SD on 802.11s networks and had a raging success. I want it simple and safe :-) cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:15 AM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: >> My suggestions: DNS-SD and libepc (http://live.gnome.org/libepc/). >> There's no need for Sugar-specific solutions here; we just need to use >> existing standard solutions. > > Yep - I want existing standard stuff, but the devil we know seems to > swamp the spectrum with 802.11s. > > Googling leads to a paper that could be useful. I don't have access - > but they seem to claim that they can get DNS-SD to _not_ mess the mesh > up with some new technique requiring new and adventurous patches > affecting the mesh routing nodes: > > http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x > > I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-) > > Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail > if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do). I think you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > My suggestions: DNS-SD and libepc (http://live.gnome.org/libepc/). > There's no need for Sugar-specific solutions here; we just need to use > existing standard solutions. Yep - I want existing standard stuff, but the devil we know seems to swamp the spectrum with 802.11s. Googling leads to a paper that could be useful. I don't have access - but they seem to claim that they can get DNS-SD to _not_ mess the mesh up with some new technique requiring new and adventurous patches affecting the mesh routing nodes: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-) Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do). DNS lookup + http check? Why do the ugliest solutions end up being the ones that work in the field? cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)
On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Martin Langhoff > wrote: >> So this depends on a simple service-announcement scheme. I'll sidestep >> the how of it, and say: > > In terms of getting a service announcement scheme, I'd be happy to > work with you guys to find a lightweight svc announcement scheme that > works for Sugar and for the XS, and that doesn't tie the two together > too tightly. > > Sugar clients want to interop with preexisting LANs with > minimal/reasonable effort, and XS LANs want to be friendly to > non-Sugar clients. > > One odd constraint we have is that we want it to play nice on wireless > networks, and mesh networks too... and the popular solutions (mdns, > etc) in this space seem to hog 802.11s badly. My suggestions: DNS-SD and libepc (http://live.gnome.org/libepc/). There's no need for Sugar-specific solutions here; we just need to use existing standard solutions. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
