Re: [Sugar-devel] A heads up for the major changes that will appear in Fedora 15 / SoaS 5
On Thu, 2010-12-30 at 20:51 +, Peter Robinson wrote: > > Is Fedora already dropping all the gnome2 libraries?? > > I can't believe this. > > Nope. But they're all compiled against gtk3 and things will be changed > in pygtk / gobject-introspection as mentioned which will likely affect > sugar. Where can I find all the details of this plan? Why not leave the entire gnome2 stack unmodified?? All the gnome2 libraries, including pygtk2, are versioned and could easily be installed alongside the gnome3 ones. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] A heads up for the major changes that will appear in Fedora 15 / SoaS 5
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > On Thu, 2010-12-30 at 20:10 +, Peter Robinson wrote: >> On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: >> > On Thu, 2010-12-30 at 09:27 -0500, Martin Langhoff wrote: >> >> AIUI, from discussions with Simon and Tomeu that's not the case. Gnome >> >> people are not that insane, the old APIs will still work and be >> >> supported. >> >> >> >> They won't be the latest coolest API wiz-bang so support may be >> >> weaker, and/or we may get "ah, well, the bug you mention is fixed in >> >> the introspection API, migrate to that" instead of a fix to the >> >> problem you report. >> >> >> >> Personally, I don't mind *not* being in the bleeding edge for one cycle >> >> :-) >> > >> > I agree with you. There's no hurry to switch to GNOME 3 and there are >> > higher priority tasks at this time. >> >> So are we saying that we don't want sugar on a stick for the F-15 >> release cycle and are happy to have it dropped from the Fedora Spins >> and someone else is prepared do the work to get it back to that >> status? Or do people generally not care about SoaS? > > Is Fedora already dropping all the gnome2 libraries?? > I can't believe this. Nope. But they're all compiled against gtk3 and things will be changed in pygtk / gobject-introspection as mentioned which will likely affect sugar. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] A heads up for the major changes that will appear in Fedora 15 / SoaS 5
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Peter Robinson > wrote: >> >> On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Bernie Innocenti >> wrote: >> > On Thu, 2010-12-30 at 09:27 -0500, Martin Langhoff wrote: >> >> AIUI, from discussions with Simon and Tomeu that's not the case. Gnome >> >> people are not that insane, the old APIs will still work and be >> >> supported. >> >> >> >> They won't be the latest coolest API wiz-bang so support may be >> >> weaker, and/or we may get "ah, well, the bug you mention is fixed in >> >> the introspection API, migrate to that" instead of a fix to the >> >> problem you report. >> >> >> >> Personally, I don't mind *not* being in the bleeding edge for one cycle >> >> :-) >> > >> > I agree with you. There's no hurry to switch to GNOME 3 and there are >> > higher priority tasks at this time. >> >> So are we saying that we don't want sugar on a stick for the F-15 >> release cycle and are happy to have it dropped from the Fedora Spins >> and someone else is prepared do the work to get it back to that >> status? Or do people generally not care about SoaS? > > I don't think that is what people are saying. I think they are saying that > we need not resolve all of our potential GNOME 3.0 issues immediately as the > 2.0 libraries will still be present. Is that not the case? I believe pygtk will be against gtk3 with a lot of the old stuff such as the bits for evince stripped as the bindings will be provided by gobject introspection. As I mentioned previously that's something that others will need to outline. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] A heads up for the major changes that will appear in Fedora 15 / SoaS 5
On Thu, 2010-12-30 at 20:10 +, Peter Robinson wrote: > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > > On Thu, 2010-12-30 at 09:27 -0500, Martin Langhoff wrote: > >> AIUI, from discussions with Simon and Tomeu that's not the case. Gnome > >> people are not that insane, the old APIs will still work and be > >> supported. > >> > >> They won't be the latest coolest API wiz-bang so support may be > >> weaker, and/or we may get "ah, well, the bug you mention is fixed in > >> the introspection API, migrate to that" instead of a fix to the > >> problem you report. > >> > >> Personally, I don't mind *not* being in the bleeding edge for one cycle :-) > > > > I agree with you. There's no hurry to switch to GNOME 3 and there are > > higher priority tasks at this time. > > So are we saying that we don't want sugar on a stick for the F-15 > release cycle and are happy to have it dropped from the Fedora Spins > and someone else is prepared do the work to get it back to that > status? Or do people generally not care about SoaS? Is Fedora already dropping all the gnome2 libraries?? I can't believe this. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] A heads up for the major changes that will appear in Fedora 15 / SoaS 5
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > I don't think that is what people are saying. I think they are saying that > we need not resolve all of our potential GNOME 3.0 issues immediately as the > 2.0 libraries will still be present. Is that not the case? Yep. AIUI, Sugar is not forced to switch to the new GNOME 3 API right now to work on F15. The v2 API will be available. In other words -- people are mistakenly imagining a flag day; instead there'll just be a new-vs-old API. The old API will be deprecated at some point but that happens over a longer timeframe. There's a good chance to flesh it all out at FUDCon -- I hope people working on gobject introspection will be there. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] A heads up for the major changes that will appear in Fedora 15 / SoaS 5
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Peter Robinson wrote: > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Bernie Innocenti > wrote: > > On Thu, 2010-12-30 at 09:27 -0500, Martin Langhoff wrote: > >> AIUI, from discussions with Simon and Tomeu that's not the case. Gnome > >> people are not that insane, the old APIs will still work and be > >> supported. > >> > >> They won't be the latest coolest API wiz-bang so support may be > >> weaker, and/or we may get "ah, well, the bug you mention is fixed in > >> the introspection API, migrate to that" instead of a fix to the > >> problem you report. > >> > >> Personally, I don't mind *not* being in the bleeding edge for one cycle > :-) > > > > I agree with you. There's no hurry to switch to GNOME 3 and there are > > higher priority tasks at this time. > > So are we saying that we don't want sugar on a stick for the F-15 > release cycle and are happy to have it dropped from the Fedora Spins > and someone else is prepared do the work to get it back to that > status? Or do people generally not care about SoaS? > I don't think that is what people are saying. I think they are saying that we need not resolve all of our potential GNOME 3.0 issues immediately as the 2.0 libraries will still be present. Is that not the case? -walter > Peter > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] A heads up for the major changes that will appear in Fedora 15 / SoaS 5
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > On Thu, 2010-12-30 at 09:27 -0500, Martin Langhoff wrote: >> AIUI, from discussions with Simon and Tomeu that's not the case. Gnome >> people are not that insane, the old APIs will still work and be >> supported. >> >> They won't be the latest coolest API wiz-bang so support may be >> weaker, and/or we may get "ah, well, the bug you mention is fixed in >> the introspection API, migrate to that" instead of a fix to the >> problem you report. >> >> Personally, I don't mind *not* being in the bleeding edge for one cycle :-) > > I agree with you. There's no hurry to switch to GNOME 3 and there are > higher priority tasks at this time. So are we saying that we don't want sugar on a stick for the F-15 release cycle and are happy to have it dropped from the Fedora Spins and someone else is prepared do the work to get it back to that status? Or do people generally not care about SoaS? Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] A heads up for the major changes that will appear in Fedora 15 / SoaS 5
On Thu, 2010-12-30 at 09:27 -0500, Martin Langhoff wrote: > AIUI, from discussions with Simon and Tomeu that's not the case. Gnome > people are not that insane, the old APIs will still work and be > supported. > > They won't be the latest coolest API wiz-bang so support may be > weaker, and/or we may get "ah, well, the bug you mention is fixed in > the introspection API, migrate to that" instead of a fix to the > problem you report. > > Personally, I don't mind *not* being in the bleeding edge for one cycle :-) I agree with you. There's no hurry to switch to GNOME 3 and there are higher priority tasks at this time. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] A heads up for the major changes that will appear in Fedora 15 / SoaS 5
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Gary Martin wrote: > This is the monstrous gaping maw of doom, from my perspective. Just about > every Activity and much of the Sugar UI will break. AIUI, from discussions with Simon and Tomeu that's not the case. Gnome people are not that insane, the old APIs will still work and be supported. They won't be the latest coolest API wiz-bang so support may be weaker, and/or we may get "ah, well, the bug you mention is fixed in the introspection API, migrate to that" instead of a fix to the problem you report. Personally, I don't mind *not* being in the bleeding edge for one cycle :-) m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] A heads up for the major changes that will appear in Fedora 15 / SoaS 5
Hi Peter, On 28 Dec 2010, at 21:17, Peter Robinson wrote: > Hi All, > > I just thought I would give people a heads up for changes that I'm > aware of that are going to be appearing in Fedora 15 / SoaS 5. > > The big one will be gnome3/gtk3 plus the associated changes that will > come with the required pygtk / gobject-introspection (Tomeu could you > possibly fill out some of the impact of this?), I'm somewhat concerned > about this actually but time will tell. This is the monstrous gaping maw of doom, from my perspective. Just about every Activity and much of the Sugar UI will break. Hopefully some of the fixes may be cookie cutter applied once we've worked through a few. It'll be a red flag day for all Activities, as once fixed up, they will be incompatible with past Sugar releases (up to now it has been largely possible for an Activity to run on all past Sugar releases). Tomeu mentioned the idea of a Sugar hackathon event of some kind to try and fix up as much as possible. Regards, --Gary > Also on the cards is the following: > - csound 5.12.1 (in rawhide now - please test) > - systemd - new init startup - I don't this affects us directly in > that we don't have any specific custom services that depend on it > (although it might affect olpc) > - /var/run and /var/lock mounted as tmpfs (likely no affect as the last one) > - Replace setuid applications with File Capabilities in order to make > them more secure (again I don't think anything will be affected) > > All the current approved Fedora 15 features can be found here [1] > > If anyone else knows of anything else that might affect the release, > or if anyone has queries or more information to add please speak up. > > Regards, > Peter > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:FeatureAcceptedF15 > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
