Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
Adam Williamson wrote: > But the key principle here isn't 'fairness', it's 'is the package > broken'. That's the actual thing we're trying to achieve. From that > perspective it doesn't make any sense to start the timer on submission > rather than push. What I want to achieve is predictability for the maintainer, so that they can know from the onstart when they will be able to push their package to stable. This is particularly important if they need to meet some internal (freeze, release EOL, etc.) or external deadline with the stable push, but it is also generally a useful property. I also believe that 7 days are already quite long and so (7 days minus infrastructure delays) should be enough time to test the package. If not, then the infrastructure delays are too long, so blame rel-eng or infra for any updates that would sneak through due to insufficient testing, not the maintainer. > The best way to avoid the problem you identify is to make the updates > pushes faster and more reliable. That is also the best way to avoid the problem you identify in my proposal. :-) Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
On Tue, 2019-08-13 at 23:36 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Adam Williamson wrote: > > It's not really about "accountability", it's simply: we can only really > > assume the package is being tested once it makes it to the repo. Yes > > you can pull it out sooner manually or using bodhi CLI, but very few > > people do that. The intent of the rule is "we want people to have 7 > > days to test out the update and make sure it's OK". > > Then complain to rel-eng or infra if they waste your testing time. :-) > It is still not fair to maintainers to make them wait up to 10+ days from > submission until they can push their update to stable because of some > infrastructure breakage that is no fault of theirs. But the key principle here isn't 'fairness', it's 'is the package broken'. That's the actual thing we're trying to achieve. From that perspective it doesn't make any sense to start the timer on submission rather than push. The best way to avoid the problem you identify is to make the updates pushes faster and more reliable. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
Adam Williamson wrote: > It's not really about "accountability", it's simply: we can only really > assume the package is being tested once it makes it to the repo. Yes > you can pull it out sooner manually or using bodhi CLI, but very few > people do that. The intent of the rule is "we want people to have 7 > days to test out the update and make sure it's OK". Then complain to rel-eng or infra if they waste your testing time. :-) It is still not fair to maintainers to make them wait up to 10+ days from submission until they can push their update to stable because of some infrastructure breakage that is no fault of theirs. Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
On Sun, 2019-08-11 at 12:55 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Kevin Fenzi wrote: > > I'm not sure what else you would like me to do here... > > How about changing the Bodhi rules to allow stable pushes 7 days after > update submission rather than 7 days after the push to testing actually > happens? That would make things much more predictable for maintainers and > not hold them accountable for delays in infrastructure that are none of > their fault. It's not really about "accountability", it's simply: we can only really assume the package is being tested once it makes it to the repo. Yes you can pull it out sooner manually or using bodhi CLI, but very few people do that. The intent of the rule is "we want people to have 7 days to test out the update and make sure it's OK". -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
On 8/11/19 3:55 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Kevin Fenzi wrote: >> I'm not sure what else you would like me to do here... > > How about changing the Bodhi rules to allow stable pushes 7 days after > update submission rather than 7 days after the push to testing actually > happens? That would make things much more predictable for maintainers and > not hold them accountable for delays in infrastructure that are none of > their fault. (And it would actually give an incentive to rel-eng to get > testing pushes out in a timely manner, since any delay would chew on the > testing time. ;-) ) Well, I don't develop bodhi, so I guess that would be a FESCo decision + some bodhi work. kevin signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
Brian (bex) Exelbierd wrote: > I didn't see your comment until after I opened > https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2207 - would love your feedback on that. https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2207#comment-589009 Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
Kevin, I didn't see your comment until after I opened https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2207 - would love your feedback on that. regards, bex On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 1:01 PM Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Kevin Fenzi wrote: > > I'm not sure what else you would like me to do here... > > How about changing the Bodhi rules to allow stable pushes 7 days after > update submission rather than 7 days after the push to testing actually > happens? That would make things much more predictable for maintainers and > not hold them accountable for delays in infrastructure that are none of > their fault. (And it would actually give an incentive to rel-eng to get > testing pushes out in a timely manner, since any delay would chew on the > testing time. ;-) ) > > Kevin Kofler > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org -- Brian "bex" Exelbierd (he/him/his) Fedora Community Action & Impact Coordinator @bexelbie | http://www.winglemeyer.org bexel...@redhat.com | b...@pobox.com ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
Kevin Fenzi wrote: > I'm not sure what else you would like me to do here... How about changing the Bodhi rules to allow stable pushes 7 days after update submission rather than 7 days after the push to testing actually happens? That would make things much more predictable for maintainers and not hold them accountable for delays in infrastructure that are none of their fault. (And it would actually give an incentive to rel-eng to get testing pushes out in a timely manner, since any delay would chew on the testing time. ;-) ) Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
> But there's not anything actually wrong anymore?\ >I'm not sure what else you would like me to do here...>kevin Yeah it's all good now -- f30 and f29 are all in testing now. Thanks for checking.Phil___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
On 8/10/19 5:34 PM, Philip Kovacs via devel wrote: > UTC 00:00:00 has come and gone and nothing was pushed to testing, yet again. Updates pushes are not instant. You shouldn't expect them all to finish at 00:00:01. They did indeed fire off as expected at 00:00 and finished some hours later, as they always do. > My reference to "7 days" was the time I have to wait until I can request >stable.That timer cannot start until the packages hit testing. ok > There really should be more than one guy who happens to be at a > conferencetaking care of this. But there's not anything actually wrong anymore? I'm not sure what else you would like me to do here... kevin signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
UTC 00:00:00 has come and gone and nothing was pushed to testing, yet again. My reference to "7 days" was the time I have to wait until I can request stable.That timer cannot start until the packages hit testing. There really should be more than one guy who happens to be at a conferencetaking care of this. On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 04:40:31 PM EDT, Kevin Fenzi wrote: On 8/10/19 11:33 AM, Philip Kovacs via devel wrote: > Just look at the updates pending pages. Here are f30 and f29, resp: > https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/?releases=F30=pending > https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/?releases=F29=pending Updates are pushed every single day at 00:00UTC. However, todays failed because there were some unsigned packages. (This is caused by updates that stay in updates testing for a long time and their signed copies get grabage collected). I fixed that and finished the broken push, but I am at flock and didn't have time to start a full push. One should fire off in about 3 hours... There should never be an update that waits 7 days to push to testing... kevin -- > On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 02:29:24 PM EDT, Stephen John Smoogen > wrote: > > > > On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 at 13:22, Philip Kovacs via devel > wrote: > > Why does it take days sometimes just to start the 7 day timer? > > Can we have some examples to track this down? Because without that.. no idea > and no way to fix. > > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > > > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
On 8/10/19 11:33 AM, Philip Kovacs via devel wrote: > Just look at the updates pending pages. Here are f30 and f29, resp: > https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/?releases=F30=pending > https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/?releases=F29=pending Updates are pushed every single day at 00:00UTC. However, todays failed because there were some unsigned packages. (This is caused by updates that stay in updates testing for a long time and their signed copies get grabage collected). I fixed that and finished the broken push, but I am at flock and didn't have time to start a full push. One should fire off in about 3 hours... There should never be an update that waits 7 days to push to testing... kevin -- >On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 02:29:24 PM EDT, Stephen John Smoogen > wrote: > > > > On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 at 13:22, Philip Kovacs via devel > wrote: > > Why does it take days sometimes just to start the 7 day timer? > > Can we have some examples to track this down? Because without that.. no idea > and no way to fix. > > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > > > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
Just look at the updates pending pages. Here are f30 and f29, resp: https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/?releases=F30=pending https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/?releases=F29=pending On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 02:29:24 PM EDT, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 at 13:22, Philip Kovacs via devel wrote: Why does it take days sometimes just to start the 7 day timer? Can we have some examples to track this down? Because without that.. no idea and no way to fix. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org -- Stephen J Smoogen. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Please sweep bodhi updates to testing in a timely manner
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 at 13:22, Philip Kovacs via devel < devel@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote: > Why does it take days sometimes just to start the 7 day timer? > Can we have some examples to track this down? Because without that.. no idea and no way to fix. > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > -- Stephen J Smoogen. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
