Re: Why exceptions for error handling is so important
On Monday, 12 January 2015 at 00:51:25 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: It's a great question. I have a lot of experience with error codes, and with exceptions. I have zero with the packed scheme, though that doesn't stop me from having an opinion :-) Perhaps I misunderstand, but given A calls B calls C, A => B => C and C detects an error, and A knows what to do with the error. B then becomes burdened with checking for the error, invoking some sort of cleanup code, and then propagating it. Wouldn't this be uglifying B's source code? With exceptions, C throws, A catches, and B's cleanup happens automatically. This matters very much for pipeline style programming (i.e. ranges and algorithms). Here is one approach to it: http://fsharpforfunandprofit.com/posts/recipe-part2/
Re: Why exceptions for error handling is so important
On Monday, 12 January 2015 at 07:09:54 UTC, Tobias Müller wrote: Walter Bright wrote: On 1/11/2015 5:06 AM, Dicebot wrote: What is your opinion of approach advertised by various functional languages and now also Rust? Where you return error code packed with actual data and can't access data without visiting error code too, compiler simply won't allow it. It's a great question. I have a lot of experience with error codes, and with exceptions. I have zero with the packed scheme, though that doesn't stop me from having an opinion :-) Perhaps I misunderstand, but given A calls B calls C, A => B => C and C detects an error, and A knows what to do with the error. B then becomes burdened with checking for the error, invoking some sort of cleanup code, and then propagating it. Wouldn't this be uglifying B's source code? With exceptions, C throws, A catches, and B's cleanup happens automatically. This matters very much for pipeline style programming (i.e. ranges and algorithms). - Error codes are automatically ignored - Exceptions are automatically propagated IMO both are not ideal and lead to sloppy programming. Ignoring errors is of course worse than aborting where you could have handled the error. Rust-style "packed" errors are nice because you are forced to think about the correct handling. There's nothing stopping you from just throwing errors out in Rust(last I used it anyways) via empty match statements and/or unwrap.
Re: Foreach, return not exist the function.
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 23:50:18 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
On 01/11/2015 12:25 PM, Zaher Dirkey wrote:
> reproduce example here
> http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/13fb453d0b1e
That link doesn't work for me. (?)
Does opApply return the delegate's return value ('b' below)?
It must return object, but it is in template
i added ref, or witout ref, same
this the part of opApply
int opApply(int delegate(ref T) callback)
{
int result = 0;
for (int i = 0; i < _items.length; ++i)
{
result = callback(_items[i]);
if (result == 0)
break;
}
return result;
}
this part code here
https://github.com/parmaja/sard/blob/master/src/sard/classes.d
and reproduced (but works fine) here
https://github.com/zaher/d_test/blob/master/foreach.d
Re: Why exceptions for error handling is so important
On 1/11/2015 11:09 PM, Tobias Müller wrote: - Error codes are automatically ignored - Exceptions are automatically propagated IMO both are not ideal and lead to sloppy programming. Ignoring errors is of course worse than aborting where you could have handled the error. Rust-style "packed" errors are nice because you are forced to think about the correct handling. I don't think this is an answer to my point.
Re: Could D compete in a competition like this?
On Monday, 12 January 2015 at 03:35:32 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 13:10:12 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 13:01:36 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: Could D compete in a competition like this? The guts will have to be done in assembly or Intel intrinsics... Why do you say that. Seems like picking the correct data structure/algorithms would be of more importance than the programming language. I don't see why this couldn't be made 'fast' with just about any programming language. 1. It is a basic spatial indexing problem. This is a heavily researched GIS area. 2. They list the hardware. But, they are cheating you: «All submissions will become public-domain DLLs.» + «prize money will be awarded to the three fastest solutions that are quicker than our fast solution.» They are basically trying to get "master-level students" to do highly valuable work for "peanuts" in order to improve their own commercial systems... :-/
New stuff: verbatim ddoc documents available
I just put https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/760 out and also generated and uploaded verbatim ddoc files for dlang.org (sans /phobos/, only /phobos-prerelease/). For each document on the website, if you replace ".html" with ".verbatim" as the suffix, you'll see ddoc macros expanded in all their glory, exactly as ddoc sees them. Take a look: http://dlang.org/index.verbatim http://dlang.org/phobos-prerelease/std_algorithm.verbatim With these it's easy to see what macros are responsible for which semantic parts of the site, and you can change their definition accordingly. Enjoy! Andrei
Re: Why exceptions for error handling is so important
Walter Bright wrote: > On 1/11/2015 5:06 AM, Dicebot wrote: >> What is your opinion of approach advertised by various functional languages >> and >> now also Rust? Where you return error code packed with actual data and can't >> access data without visiting error code too, compiler simply won't allow it. > > It's a great question. I have a lot of experience with error codes, and > with exceptions. I have zero with the packed scheme, though that doesn't > stop me from having an opinion :-) > > Perhaps I misunderstand, but given A calls B calls C, > >A => B => C > > and C detects an error, and A knows what to do with the error. B then > becomes burdened with checking for the error, invoking some sort of > cleanup code, and then propagating it. > > Wouldn't this be uglifying B's source code? > > With exceptions, C throws, A catches, and B's cleanup happens automatically. > > This matters very much for pipeline style programming (i.e. ranges and > algorithms). - Error codes are automatically ignored - Exceptions are automatically propagated IMO both are not ideal and lead to sloppy programming. Ignoring errors is of course worse than aborting where you could have handled the error. Rust-style "packed" errors are nice because you are forced to think about the correct handling.
Re: Ready to make page-per-item ddocs the default?
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 19:52:42 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 11:26 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 1/9/15 4:17 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/9/15 12:59 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2015-01-09 20:46, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Stuff's up! http://dlang.org/library-prerelease/core/stdc/complex.html. I couldn't get rid of the darn space between the header name and the period. -- Andrei Is it just me or are the actual declarations missing? Oh yah :o). Steve? -- Andrei Apparently, the documentation generator ignores items that are tagged as documented but without any substance. If I compile a simple doc with a "///" before an item, it does show up when I do dmd -D. So I have no idea how to make it work for this new doc system. Martin Nowak? Sönke Ludwig? Andrei That's a feature, not a bug ! (tm) I think what's going on is that `--only-documented` is somehow specified. I had a glance at dlang.org and couldn't find the flag, but it's present by default if you build with dub, and I have no idea how Phobos' ddox are build ATM. `--only-documented` filters everything that have an empty comment out (https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/blob/master/source/ddox/main.d#L193). Which looks like a bug (or at least, something that has been overlooked), as dmd differentiate between empty comment and no comment.
Re: An idea for commercial support for D
On Monday, 12 January 2015 at 05:02:36 UTC, Joakim wrote: Yeah, it seems to be a big deal. D may end up needing what it doesn't appear to have: some business genius to go along with its language design prowess. The "switching costs" are far too high right now. Even the ideal programming language could only be so much better than what already exists. I don't know about "genius," simply a small to mid-sized company like Embarcadero that's willing to invest into putting 10-20 paid devs on producing and selling a polished compiler/runtime/stdlib would do. I'm saying that assembling and funding such a team will require some business genius at this point. Maybe Sociomantic will provide, a couple years from now, when Dicebot and others are finished porting their codebase? But seriously, let's keep the question simple. How do you get to that 10-20 dev team? Who wants D that bad, and is willing to suffer the capital investment? I don't want to sound negative, but it strikes me as a *really* hard sell. I'm not a marketing expert (well, perhaps ipso facto), but I think that in order to prosper in the current climate D needs a better brand. "Modern convenience. Modeling power. Native efficiency."... isn't good enough. Not to disparage the effort that went into creating that slogan, but for one thing, it's not even honest, insofar as D does not yet provide modern convenience, as Manu Evans has so dishearteningly pointed out. (It's becoming painfully obvious that convenience is absolutely not about language - it's about ecosystem, and D simply doesn't have that yet.) I don't have a problem with the brand. D is convenient enough for me in terms of features, though I certainly don't push it as far as Manu does. As for the library ecosystem, that's always a slog to bootstrap for any new language. A newbie goes to the front page of dlang.org, tries D and has the kind of experience Manu recently lamented with his own team. Modern convenience? It's false advertising. It's not knowing who you are. It doesn't how matter much anybody *wants* D to be convenient. Modern convenience would be a gamer changer, absolutely, if we had it. But it's about infrastructure - that's what convenience *is*. Convenience is not about core product. What the slogan is saying is completely different from what D's leaders think it's saying. It's saying that D is for language geeks who know how to bypass all lack of modern convenience. It's saying that D is for people who think convenience is only about language and not infrastructure, documentation, and tooling, i.e. language geeks - people who love to try new languages and will put up with lack of everything else, etc. - perhaps 10% of programmers. I'm not saying D really *is* for language geeks. I'm saying that's what D is *saying* it is, *without even knowing it*. Convenience, to me, is one-click downloading from the home page, one click installation, and full IDE support akin to what Apple, Microsoft and any other behemoth has done for their language. The language has nothing to do with it. D can't even remotely compete with these languages in terms of convenience. It needs a new slogan, and it can't get one until it knows what it is. Here's a suggestion: "A Language for Programmers". It would obviously need to be vetted by the big wigs, but from my perspective, it's already a real brand without any extra work. I wonder if they'll agree with me?
Writing a small linux binary
Can this be done in D? How easy is it? What about the runtime? https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2s1sgg/151byte_static_linux_binary_in_rust/ Best regards, NVolcz
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On Monday, 12 January 2015 at 00:38:20 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 1/11/15 10:48 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
The main problem is what to do about comments, which don't
fit into the
grammar.
In the first version comments might go through unchanged.
Consider:
for /*comment*/ (a;
b;
c)
Do what with that?
I don't know. Simplest would be to punt for now - such rare
embedded comments
should not be blockers. -- Andrei
Normally I would agree, but deleting peoples' comments from
their source code is not a good plan. It'll make them
justifiably angry.
This conversation reminds me of something I've thought about ever
since I first studied D. D takes the C preprocessor and folds it
into the regular AST. But comments still seemed like the outlier.
I looked through a bunch of source code and tried to figure out
the most specific place anyone could possibly put a comment. The
most detailed I found were something like:
enum X {
ONE,
TWO, // We need a TWO here
THREE
}
So I started conceiving of a language in which even the
*comments* were part of the AST. For, me this would be the
aesthetic ideal. It just seemed like the next step in total AST
integration.
Re: An idea for commercial support for D
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 19:27:15 UTC, Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 11 January 2015 at 16:23, Joakim via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 16:13:01 UTC, Dicebot wrote: There are very few "monopolies" in software, essentially none nowadays. :D :D :D :D :D I have not laughed so hard for quite a while. Modern IT industry is absolutely dominated by monopolies / oligopolies. Hard to reason with you if this is what you see. You should really try to keep up to date with recent market share stats: http://www.businessinsider.in/In-Case-You-Dont-Appreciate-How-Fast-The-Windows-Monopoly-Is-Getting-Destroyed-/articleshow/21123434.cms Why should Monopoly automatically mean Microsoft? ;-) It doesn't, it's just the only company he mentioned and the one most think of. If you have another in mind, feel free to mention it. On Monday, 12 January 2015 at 04:17:11 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 16:02:59 UTC, Joakim wrote: You may be right that nobody else in the _D_ community sees the value, but engineers are notorious for being ignorant of business and economics, so nothing unusual if that's the case. Yeah, it seems to be a big deal. D may end up needing what it doesn't appear to have: some business genius to go along with its language design prowess. The "switching costs" are far too high right now. Even the ideal programming language could only be so much better than what already exists. I don't know about "genius," simply a small to mid-sized company like Embarcadero that's willing to invest into putting 10-20 paid devs on producing and selling a polished compiler/runtime/stdlib would do. I disagree that the ideal programming language would "only be so much better:" we can do a _lot_ better than C++ and all its legacy issues. D certainly makes a stab at it, but is missing good commercial implementations like C++ has. I'm not a marketing expert (well, perhaps ipso facto), but I think that in order to prosper in the current climate D needs a better brand. "Modern convenience. Modeling power. Native efficiency."... isn't good enough. Not to disparage the effort that went into creating that slogan, but for one thing, it's not even honest, insofar as D does not yet provide modern convenience, as Manu Evans has so dishearteningly pointed out. (It's becoming painfully obvious that convenience is absolutely not about language - it's about ecosystem, and D simply doesn't have that yet.) I don't have a problem with the brand. D is convenient enough for me in terms of features, though I certainly don't push it as far as Manu does. As for the library ecosystem, that's always a slog to bootstrap for any new language. The most important thing about a brand is that you know who you are. D still doesn't know what it is yet, and so it hasn't found the need to create a brand that matches that identity. I'd argue that D knows what it is by now, but doesn't know how to get it done, ie a volunteer project won't make any headway against C++. In any case, D's license allows it, so I'm sure somebody will try out a hybrid model with a D compiler someday, or D will be obsoleted by a language that does. I'm not managing a huge codebase, so I have nothing to lose by sticking with D! Nor am I, I have no problem tinkering with a hobby language like D in my spare time.
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 19:50:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: A secondary problem is what to do when the line length limit is exceeded, such as for long expressions. I think that's problem #1. The usual way is to associate cost with various cesures and run something Dijkstra (or A*) like to find the best cesures.
Re: Make int[12] convertible to int[]
On Friday, December 19, 2014 09:47:43 Shachar Shemesh via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On 17/12/14 17:02, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: > > On Wednesday, 17 December 2014 at 13:13:43 UTC, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > >> It just seems like extra unneeded superfluous unnecessary redundancy. > > > > It is somewhat important because storing a slice to a static array is a > > big problem: > > > > Any time you pass by reference a reference to a stack allocated > variable, this problem is there. I don't see how arrays are any different. > > What's more, this is precisely why @safe and friends exist (and, if > memory serves me right, D actually catches and warns about the use case > you described). D catches taking the address of a local variable, but it unfortunately does not currently catch slicing a static array. Regardless, IMHO slicing a static array should be treated entirely like taking the address of a variable and not only be considered unsafe but be required to be explicit. While implicit slicing of static arrays is occasionally nice, it's definitely a source of nasty bugs, and personally, I think that it was a mistake to ever have it anywhere in the language. - Jonathan M Davis
Re: An idea for commercial support for D
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 16:02:59 UTC, Joakim wrote: You may be right that nobody else in the _D_ community sees the value, but engineers are notorious for being ignorant of business and economics, so nothing unusual if that's the case. Yeah, it seems to be a big deal. D may end up needing what it doesn't appear to have: some business genius to go along with its language design prowess. The "switching costs" are far too high right now. Even the ideal programming language could only be so much better than what already exists. I'm not a marketing expert (well, perhaps ipso facto), but I think that in order to prosper in the current climate D needs a better brand. "Modern convenience. Modeling power. Native efficiency."... isn't good enough. Not to disparage the effort that went into creating that slogan, but for one thing, it's not even honest, insofar as D does not yet provide modern convenience, as Manu Evans has so dishearteningly pointed out. (It's becoming painfully obvious that convenience is absolutely not about language - it's about ecosystem, and D simply doesn't have that yet.) The most important thing about a brand is that you know who you are. D still doesn't know what it is yet, and so it hasn't found the need to create a brand that matches that identity. In any case, D's license allows it, so I'm sure somebody will try out a hybrid model with a D compiler someday, or D will be obsoleted by a language that does. I'm not managing a huge codebase, so I have nothing to lose by sticking with D!
Re: Using the TZ Database with Windows
On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 17:21:01 Jake via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm doing some research with D concerning time zones and I need
> to be able to handle a single time zone style on both Windows and
> Linux. That pretty much leaves me with the IANA Time Zone
> Database.
>
> Has anyone around here dealt with compiling the data files for
> the tz database on Windows? Or is there some easy way to do it
> for D?
I really need to catch up on reading posts in the newsgroup, or I would have
seen this a month ago. Sorry about that. In any case,
std.datetime.PosixTimeZone supports reading from the TZ database time zone
files directly. So, as long as you have those files on Windows, you can use
PosixTimeZone on there just as easily as you do on Linux. So, instead of
doing
auto tz = PosixTimeZone.getTimeZone("America/Los_Angeles");
you'd do
auto tz = PosixTimeZone.getTimeZone("America/Los_Angeles", pathToTZFiles);
and you can do something like
version(Posix)
auto tz = PosixTimeZone.getTimeZone("America/Los_Angeles");
else version(Windows)
auto tz = PosixTimeZone.getTimeZone("America/Los_Angeles", pathToTZFiles);
or
version(Posix)
auto pathToTZFiles = PosixTimeZone.defaultTZDatabaseDir;
else version(Windows)
auto pathToTZFiles = "My path on Windows";
auto tz = PosixTimeZone.getTimeZone("America/Los_Angeles", pathToTZFiles);
differentiate between Windows and the POSIX systems. In either caes, you can
then do stuff like
auto st = Clock.currTime(tz);
or
auto st = SysTime(/* whatever my arguments are */, tz);
to get a SysTime with that time zone.
Regardless, you should be able to just take the binary files from Linux and
use them directly on Windows without compiling anything. I'd like to add
support for just reading them from a tar.gz or .zip file rather than forcing
you to put them all in a directory on Windows, but I've never gotten around
to it.
- Jonathan M Davis
Re: Could D compete in a competition like this?
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 13:10:12 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 13:01:36 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: Could D compete in a competition like this? The guts will have to be done in assembly or Intel intrinsics... Why do you say that. Seems like picking the correct data structure/algorithms would be of more importance than the programming language. I don't see why this couldn't be made 'fast' with just about any programming language.
Re: What's up with the windows headers?
On Friday, January 02, 2015 21:57:08 Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 21:48:34 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: > > When you find yourself inserting the necessary definitions > > manually in your code, file a PR as well to put them in > > windows.d. > > How would you feel about a PR to dump that whole win32 bindings > into the druntime tree? It's one of those things that's long past due but requires that someone actually put the time and effort in to get it done, and no one has done so yet. So, if you're willing to do it and have the time, go for it. It would be a huge improvement for dealing with the win32 API from D. - Jonathan M Davis
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Monday, 12 January 2015 at 00:33:52 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Answers from others would be helpful. Thanks! -- Andrei Usually once per beta and once per release.
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 20:18:03 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: Has someone made a dfmt, like http://gofmt.com/ ? That is amongst the plans for libd. I'd be happy to support anyone that want to work on it :)
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On 1/11/2015 5:53 PM, Brian Schott wrote: On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 20:18:03 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: Has someone made a dfmt, like http://gofmt.com/ ? https://github.com/Hackerpilot/dfmt The above is the work of one afternoon and not well tested. That was quick!
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 20:18:03 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: Has someone made a dfmt, like http://gofmt.com/ ? https://github.com/Hackerpilot/dfmt The above is the work of one afternoon and not well tested.
Re: core.stdc.* documentation
On 1/11/15 5:04 PM, Kiith-Sa wrote: On Monday, 12 January 2015 at 00:29:49 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I just fixed documentation to generate docs for all symbols in core.stdc.complex. Looks unhelpful: http://erdani.com/d/library-prerelease/core/stdc/complex.html Any idea on how to make this better? Thanks, Andrei Links to cppreference.com . Please not LUCKY, it often results in not-the-best or even straght not-good results. E.g. cacos/cacosf/cacosl: http://en.cppreference.com/w/c/numeric/complex/cacos Problem is not that, but instead the repeated description. -- Andrei
Re: Why doesn't mktspec() use clock_gettime?
On Friday, January 09, 2015 18:03:15 Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d wrote: > cc Sean Kelly > > https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/druntime/blob/master/src/core/sync/config.d#L28 > > Looks like that use has been disable with static if (false). What was > the reason? > > A coworker spent a few hours debugging a matter that pointed to this > issue. He removed the "false" and replaced CLOCK_REALTIME with > CLOCK_MONOTONIC in our druntime tree. > > Any insight into the matter? How should we address it by supporting > multiple clock types portably? It's probably because Mac OS X doesn't have clock_gettime, even though it's POSIX. std.datetime.Clock.currTime currently uses gettimeofday for getting the wall clock time on OS X (and clock_gettime on the other POSIX systems), which I'm not a fan of, but AFAIK, it works. However, I probably should try at some point to find a more precise wall clock function than gettimeofday for Mac OS X. For when the monotonic clock is needed though, gettimeofday really doesn't cut it, because it's not monotonic. And for that, you need mach_absolute on Mac OS X, and clock_gettime with CLOCK_MONOTONIC on the other POSIX systems. You can look at core.time.MonoTime.currTime for that: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/druntime/blob/master/src/core/time.d#L1848 though it's obviously not looking to fill a timespec. However, I would point out that sem_timedwait (used in core.sync.semaphore) expects a timespec which represents a duration from January 1st, 1970 at midnight, not the monotonic time, so CLOCK_REALTIME or gettimeofday is required in that case rather than CLOCK_MONOTONIC, and using CLOCK_MONOTONIC would likely make it misbehave rather badly. I don't know about pthread_cond_timedwait though (which is the other place that mktspec is used in druntime outside of core.sync.config). As far as I can tell, its man page utterly fails to make it clear what it expects for its abstime argument. It makes it sound like it's at least sometimes possible to select which clock to use, but I don't know how, and it doesn't say what the default is. So either CLOCK_REALTIME or CLOCK_MONOTONIC could be the correct solution depending on what it requires. However, the C++ code that I've used in the past to interact with pthread_cond_timedwait seems to use the monotonic clock, so that's probably what it expects. Certainly, I think that it would be the correct choice from an implementation perspective, since it can't possibly use the wall clock time internally for something like that and not have bugs, and forcing a conversion from wall clock time internally like sem_timedwait's API would just adds one more place where the system clock could be shifted and screw up the result. Regardless, simply having mktspec use either the monotonic clock or the wall clock is probably wrong, and we probably need to either get rid of mktspec in favor of separate functions for the different types of time or change it so that you can choose whether you want the monotonic clock or the wall clock. In either case, the reason that it doesn't use clock_gettime is almost certainly because it doesn't exist on Mac OS X. - Jonathan M Davis
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Monday, 12 January 2015 at 00:33:52 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 4:33 PM, MattCoder wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 23:27:34 UTC, Nick B wrote: Perhaps its better to have a number (average or mean) than no number. Just ask 50 or 100 uers (or more) for their number of downloads for the last 12 or 18 months. This is turn will give you a guess-estimate as to the size of the community. If the number is small, say 4, then this will indicate that the community is near 100,000 users. Interesting for example, in my case I downloaded twice on the last 12 months (2.062 and 2.066). Answers from others would be helpful. Thanks! -- Andrei About 3-5 per release on average in my case. (I have 3 machines and often change distros on 2 of them). If I count D workshops, +30, but most of those are not likely to become D users.
Re: core.stdc.* documentation
On Monday, 12 January 2015 at 00:29:49 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I just fixed documentation to generate docs for all symbols in core.stdc.complex. Looks unhelpful: http://erdani.com/d/library-prerelease/core/stdc/complex.html Any idea on how to make this better? Thanks, Andrei Links to cppreference.com . Please not LUCKY, it often results in not-the-best or even straght not-good results. E.g. cacos/cacosf/cacosl: http://en.cppreference.com/w/c/numeric/complex/cacos
Re: Improving http://dlang.org/library/index.html
On 1/11/15 4:37 PM, Mathias LANG wrote: On Monday, 12 January 2015 at 00:15:18 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Thanks! Could someone please get on this? The few of us working on this can't do everything. Most of the work involved is highly parallelizable. Please? Please? With sugar on top? Thanks. Andrei I would love to, but won't be able to spend much time on it before February. Hopefully someone will do that sooner, but no worries there'll be plenty of related work left. Also, I was thinking that later on we could have the docs of older versions, would that be a good idea ? Yes, I wanted to do that for a while. Andrei
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On 1/11/15 4:37 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/11/2015 1:31 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 1:15 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/11/2015 11:50 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 10:48 AM, Walter Bright wrote: The main problem is what to do about comments, which don't fit into the grammar. In the first version comments might go through unchanged. Consider: for /*comment*/ (a; b; c) Do what with that? I don't know. Simplest would be to punt for now - such rare embedded comments should not be blockers. -- Andrei Normally I would agree, but deleting peoples' comments from their source code is not a good plan. It'll make them justifiably angry. By punt i mean leave as is. -- Andrei
Re: Why exceptions for error handling is so important
On 1/11/2015 5:06 AM, Dicebot wrote: What is your opinion of approach advertised by various functional languages and now also Rust? Where you return error code packed with actual data and can't access data without visiting error code too, compiler simply won't allow it. It's a great question. I have a lot of experience with error codes, and with exceptions. I have zero with the packed scheme, though that doesn't stop me from having an opinion :-) Perhaps I misunderstand, but given A calls B calls C, A => B => C and C detects an error, and A knows what to do with the error. B then becomes burdened with checking for the error, invoking some sort of cleanup code, and then propagating it. Wouldn't this be uglifying B's source code? With exceptions, C throws, A catches, and B's cleanup happens automatically. This matters very much for pipeline style programming (i.e. ranges and algorithms).
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On 1/11/2015 1:31 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 1:15 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/11/2015 11:50 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 10:48 AM, Walter Bright wrote: The main problem is what to do about comments, which don't fit into the grammar. In the first version comments might go through unchanged. Consider: for /*comment*/ (a; b; c) Do what with that? I don't know. Simplest would be to punt for now - such rare embedded comments should not be blockers. -- Andrei Normally I would agree, but deleting peoples' comments from their source code is not a good plan. It'll make them justifiably angry.
Re: Improving http://dlang.org/library/index.html
On Monday, 12 January 2015 at 00:15:18 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Thanks! Could someone please get on this? The few of us working on this can't do everything. Most of the work involved is highly parallelizable. Please? Please? With sugar on top? Thanks. Andrei I would love to, but won't be able to spend much time on it before February. Also, I was thinking that later on we could have the docs of older versions, would that be a good idea ?
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On 1/11/15 4:33 PM, MattCoder wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 23:27:34 UTC, Nick B wrote: Perhaps its better to have a number (average or mean) than no number. Just ask 50 or 100 uers (or more) for their number of downloads for the last 12 or 18 months. This is turn will give you a guess-estimate as to the size of the community. If the number is small, say 4, then this will indicate that the community is near 100,000 users. Interesting for example, in my case I downloaded twice on the last 12 months (2.062 and 2.066). Answers from others would be helpful. Thanks! -- Andrei
Re: Improving http://dlang.org/library/index.html
On 1/11/15 4:28 PM, Peter Alexander wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 23:54:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 3:38 PM, Robert burner Schadek wrote: what about making it multi column like on http://en.cppreference.com/w/ A nice possibility, though I do like the entity + blurb layout. -- Andrei Most of those blurbs add little value beyond what the name of the module already provides. That may as well be a matter with the documentation itself. I'd prefer if they were ditched and instead the modules were categorized into larger groups: core - std.algorithm, std.range, std.array, etc. io - std.file, std.csv, std.mmfile, etc. strings - std.string, std.uni, std.utf, etc. math - std.bigint, std.math, std.mathspecial, std.numeric, etc. etc. The purpose of that page (as I see it) is for people to find what they need quickly. I think categorization would be a better format to achieve that. I think that would be nice. Any chance you could follow with a proof of concept? Andrei
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 23:27:34 UTC, Nick B wrote: Perhaps its better to have a number (average or mean) than no number. Just ask 50 or 100 uers (or more) for their number of downloads for the last 12 or 18 months. This is turn will give you a guess-estimate as to the size of the community. If the number is small, say 4, then this will indicate that the community is near 100,000 users. Interesting for example, in my case I downloaded twice on the last 12 months (2.062 and 2.066). Matheus.
Re: Improving http://dlang.org/library/index.html
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 23:54:16 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 3:38 PM, Robert burner Schadek wrote: what about making it multi column like on http://en.cppreference.com/w/ A nice possibility, though I do like the entity + blurb layout. -- Andrei Most of those blurbs add little value beyond what the name of the module already provides. I'd prefer if they were ditched and instead the modules were categorized into larger groups: core - std.algorithm, std.range, std.array, etc. io - std.file, std.csv, std.mmfile, etc. strings - std.string, std.uni, std.utf, etc. math - std.bigint, std.math, std.mathspecial, std.numeric, etc. etc. The purpose of that page (as I see it) is for people to find what they need quickly. I think categorization would be a better format to achieve that.
core.stdc.* documentation
I just fixed documentation to generate docs for all symbols in core.stdc.complex. Looks unhelpful: http://erdani.com/d/library-prerelease/core/stdc/complex.html Any idea on how to make this better? Thanks, Andrei
Re: Improving http://dlang.org/library/index.html
On 1/11/15 4:01 PM, Mathias LANG wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 20:22:02 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I'm looking into ways to improve http://dlang.org/library/index.html. Specifically I want to remove (some of) the std.c modules or at least move them below, render the module names in code font, etc. Again, ddox is rather opaque. Is there a source for that page, or is it hardcoded somewhere? Searching for the title 'API documentation' yields no results. Thanks, Andrei Surely what matters most should be at the top, not the C bindings :) Yes, the sorting order is björked in several ways. So, assuming you know the basics of diet templates (if not: http://vibed.org/templates/diet ), you should know that ddox is based on a views hierarchy. You have `layout.dt` at the base of the hierarchy, then `ddox.layout.dt`, then, either `ddox.overview.dt` (which is the `index.html` we're talking about), `ddox.module.dt`, `ddox.docpage.dt`. `ddox.docpage.dt` includes various other templates to present a page that'll depend of the kind of symbol. Those are the ddox.inc.*.dt pages: https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/tree/master/views The inheritance can be overriden, and so should the includes (never tried it though). TL;DR: Define a `ddox.overview.dt` in the `views` folder (original source: https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/blob/master/views/ddox.overview.dt ). Then, as you see, you can just use D code to generate HTML. Thanks! Could someone please get on this? The few of us working on this can't do everything. Most of the work involved is highly parallelizable. Please? Please? With sugar on top? Thanks. Andrei
Re: Could D compete in a competition like this?
On 12/01/2015 2:01 a.m., Gary Willoughby wrote: Could D compete in a competition like this? "In a nutshell: We give you a bunch of ranked 2D points, then ask you to find the most important ones inside some randomly generated rectangles. Easy, right? Now make it fast, and you could get $5K!" http://churchillnavigation.com/challenge/ Can D produce Windows DLL's? I managed to get it working fine with dmd 2.066.1. Ldc on the other hand.. ehh bug reports needed.
Re: Improving http://dlang.org/library/index.html
lets combine both there is enough space, something like || name | desc || name | desc ||
Re: Improving http://dlang.org/library/index.html
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 20:22:02 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I'm looking into ways to improve http://dlang.org/library/index.html. Specifically I want to remove (some of) the std.c modules or at least move them below, render the module names in code font, etc. Again, ddox is rather opaque. Is there a source for that page, or is it hardcoded somewhere? Searching for the title 'API documentation' yields no results. Thanks, Andrei Surely what matters most should be at the top, not the C bindings :) So, assuming you know the basics of diet templates (if not: http://vibed.org/templates/diet ), you should know that ddox is based on a views hierarchy. You have `layout.dt` at the base of the hierarchy, then `ddox.layout.dt`, then, either `ddox.overview.dt` (which is the `index.html` we're talking about), `ddox.module.dt`, `ddox.docpage.dt`. `ddox.docpage.dt` includes various other templates to present a page that'll depend of the kind of symbol. Those are the ddox.inc.*.dt pages: https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/tree/master/views The inheritance can be overriden, and so should the includes (never tried it though). TL;DR: Define a `ddox.overview.dt` in the `views` folder (original source: https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/blob/master/views/ddox.overview.dt ). Then, as you see, you can just use D code to generate HTML.
Re: Foreach, return not exist the function.
On 01/11/2015 12:25 PM, Zaher Dirkey wrote:
> reproduce example here
> http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/13fb453d0b1e
That link doesn't work for me. (?)
Does opApply return the delegate's return value ('b' below)?
import std.stdio;
struct S
{
int opApply(int delegate(int) dg)
{
foreach (i; 0 .. 10) {
int b = dg(i);
if (b) {
writefln("Exiting opApply with %s", b);
return b;
}
}
return 0;
}
}
int foo()
{
auto s = S();
foreach (i; s) {
writeln(i);
return 42;
}
return 0;
}
void main()
{
assert(foo() == 42);
}
Ali
Re: Improving http://dlang.org/library/index.html
On 1/11/15 3:38 PM, Robert burner Schadek wrote: what about making it multi column like on http://en.cppreference.com/w/ A nice possibility, though I do like the entity + blurb layout. -- Andrei
Re: ddox question
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 22:19:01 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Thanks! Are there ways to override those? We need to make dlang.org independent of https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/. -- Andreo By default, it uses ddox's one, but they're overrideable (by defining a file with the same name), as it's already done for layout.dt and ddox.layout.dt: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/tree/master/dpl-docs/views
Re: Improving http://dlang.org/library/index.html
what about making it multi column like on http://en.cppreference.com/w/
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 23:27:34 UTC, Nick B wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 22:55:52 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 2:54 PM, Nick B wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 17:44:59 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Ionno how to measure that with the data we have. -- Andrei Perhaps its better to have a number (average or mean) than no number. Just ask 50 or 100 uers (or more) for their number of downloads for the last 12 or 18 months. This is turn will give you a guess-estimate as to the size of the community. If the number is small, say 4, then this will indicate that the community is near 100,000 users. Nick Still inaccurate because many D users use linux and get their compiler from their distro's package manager.
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 22:55:52 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 2:54 PM, Nick B wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 17:44:59 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Ionno how to measure that with the data we have. -- Andrei Perhaps its better to have a number (average or mean) than no number. Just ask 50 or 100 uers (or more) for their number of downloads for the last 12 or 18 months. This is turn will give you a guess-estimate as to the size of the community. If the number is small, say 4, then this will indicate that the community is near 100,000 users. Nick
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On 1/11/15 2:54 PM, Nick B wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 17:44:59 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 9:43 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I just regenerated the 28-day moving average graph: erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png that is. -- Andrei Looking at the chart it is showing a sustained 36,000 downloads (1200 x 30) per month, currently. Perhaps a interesting question is how often an average user, does a download ? Ionno how to measure that with the data we have. -- Andrei
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 17:44:59 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 9:43 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I just regenerated the 28-day moving average graph: erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png that is. -- Andrei Looking at the chart it is showing a sustained 36,000 downloads (1200 x 30) per month, currently. Perhaps a interesting question is how often an average user, does a download ? Nick
Re: Phobos Docs Questions
On 1/11/15 1:41 PM, Confused wrote: Recently I've seen documentation work, but am confused about some specifics. I've seen work and/or talk being done towards... 1. Improving the text of the documentation itself Yes please. 2. Improving ddoc with some Markdown capabilities We have https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dmd/pull/4228 about to make it - for now I think that's going to improve things significantly. 3. Moving Phobos docs to page-per-symbol Yah, though quality is not there yet. 4. Adding adding discussion to documentation pages Yah. 5. Moving Phobos docs from ddoc to ddox Yah, though again we need serious work on quality. While I appreciate (1) and (2), I don't see the appeal of (3), and am strongly opposed to (4) and (5). As I see it (3) only serves to make it harder to browse the documentation and increases server load, but I can probably live with it if other people think it is a good idea. I should point out that I'm not aware of any other quality web-based docs for *anything* that put each symbol on its own page. No worries, the extant docs are here to stay. I plan to put at the beginning of each module a link with text like "See single-page documentation". I also don't like the idea of (4), because it is a huge extra moderation requirement which I don't think this community can actually handle, and it will only age, causing it to be yet another source of wrong information about Phobos/D. The way I see it is: to swim, we gotta get out feet wet. However, my main concern is with (5), which leads me to some questions: * If ddoc is good enough for Phobos, why use another semi-compatible tool? Mostly because it's there. It's possible to make ddoc generate file-per-entity or automatic cross-indexing. It's been on my list for years, but still haven't gotten to it. So why not just ddox? (It does build now.) * If ddoc isn't good enough for Phobos, why is it in the compiler? ddoc is a terrific and incredibly underrated tool, which can (and should and probably will) be taken further with simple improvements. Note that ddox also works on top of ddoc. Also, again, the ddoc-generated documentation is plenty good and will continue to be available. * If we want ddoc in the compiler, then why not dogfood that for Phobos? It is and it will continue to be there. Oh, one more thing - the website pages proper (language reference) use ddoc. * If we don't want ddoc in the compiler, why is spend time improving it? We do want and we should spend. Andrei
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On 1/11/15 1:39 PM, "Ulrich =?UTF-8?B?S8O8dHRsZXIi?= " wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 20:56:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 12:28 PM, "Ulrich =?UTF-8?B?S8O8dHRsZXIi?= " wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 17:44:59 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png that is. -- Andrei You could go a long way with a little tracking code on dlang.org. Just saying. What do you mean? -- Andrei Using google analytics or something of that kind you would get proper visitor counts (plus metadata) on all pages. The basic setup is very simple (a little tag on all pages) and provides a lot of insight: https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1008080?hl=en#GA The sky is the limit with these kinds of tools, but you probably do not want to go there. There might be ethical objections. Both golang.org and www.rust-lang.org track their users. Just search for google-analytics in the page source. We have such. -- Andrei
Please help me with documentation
... a la https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/2867. Chip in - we need any improvement, small and large. -- Andrei
Re: ddox question
On 1/11/15 2:02 PM, Kiith-Sa wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 17:28:37 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 3:03 AM, Mathias LANG wrote: On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 17:23:24 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: In the ddox-generated documentation the heading is e.g. "Module std.container". I wanted to style "std.container" in code font, but can't find where that text is generated. I've searched dlang.org/ and dub/, no avail. Andrei IIUC, you're looking for this: https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/blob/ce797a3182c1263feb4a6f4c9ce9b88b95d83003/views/layout.dt Which is the base of all layout. But from a quick look (https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=h1), the title is the only h1 on the page, so you could just tweak the CSS. I don't think the CSS would be enough. The "title" is "Module xxx.yyy". I only need to format "xxx.yyy" in code font. How do I do that? -- Andrei Seems to be https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/blob/ce797a3182c1263feb4a6f4c9ce9b88b95d83003/views/ddox.module.dt (line 9) Just look at files in https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/tree/ce797a3182c1263feb4a6f4c9ce9b88b95d83003/views . I don't use DDox, but it's easy to get around. Thanks! Are there ways to override those? We need to make dlang.org independent of https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/. -- Andreo
Re: ddox question
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 17:28:37 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 3:03 AM, Mathias LANG wrote: On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 17:23:24 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: In the ddox-generated documentation the heading is e.g. "Module std.container". I wanted to style "std.container" in code font, but can't find where that text is generated. I've searched dlang.org/ and dub/, no avail. Andrei IIUC, you're looking for this: https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/blob/ce797a3182c1263feb4a6f4c9ce9b88b95d83003/views/layout.dt Which is the base of all layout. But from a quick look (https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=h1), the title is the only h1 on the page, so you could just tweak the CSS. I don't think the CSS would be enough. The "title" is "Module xxx.yyy". I only need to format "xxx.yyy" in code font. How do I do that? -- Andrei Seems to be https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/blob/ce797a3182c1263feb4a6f4c9ce9b88b95d83003/views/ddox.module.dt (line 9) Just look at files in https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/tree/ce797a3182c1263feb4a6f4c9ce9b88b95d83003/views . I don't use DDox, but it's easy to get around.
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 21:19:35 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 19:30:59 UTC, ponce wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 18:25:39 UTC, francesco.cattoglio wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 14:10:56 UTC, ponce wrote: None of them has Visual Studio integration with debugging support and that is pretty important for native and enterprise programmers. If I remember correctly, just 2 month ago someone was explaining how they lost a commercial user because D debugging experience was still not good enough by a long shot. And in my daily use, debug experience is still subpar on windows. only to discover it is not fun enough and fun is more important than "memory safety without GC". WHAT? Syntax is boring, but I don't get the sense of the sentence Right, might be personal judgement, at this point I was in rant-mode. :) Rust is supposed to replace C++, and it happens working in C++ since years, I can't help but notice we actually have very few memory safety problems, to the point that I question that it's something worth worrying about[cutted] Somehow I feel you are in the very lucky position of having top notch colleagues, with small attrition in team members and budget to buy C++ sanitation tools. Accurate. Actually C++ is pretty much a non-problem around here, not my experience in other C++ shops.
Phobos Docs Questions
Recently I've seen documentation work, but am confused about some specifics. I've seen work and/or talk being done towards... 1. Improving the text of the documentation itself 2. Improving ddoc with some Markdown capabilities 3. Moving Phobos docs to page-per-symbol 4. Adding adding discussion to documentation pages 5. Moving Phobos docs from ddoc to ddox While I appreciate (1) and (2), I don't see the appeal of (3), and am strongly opposed to (4) and (5). As I see it (3) only serves to make it harder to browse the documentation and increases server load, but I can probably live with it if other people think it is a good idea. I should point out that I'm not aware of any other quality web-based docs for *anything* that put each symbol on its own page. I also don't like the idea of (4), because it is a huge extra moderation requirement which I don't think this community can actually handle, and it will only age, causing it to be yet another source of wrong information about Phobos/D. However, my main concern is with (5), which leads me to some questions: * If ddoc is good enough for Phobos, why use another semi-compatible tool? * If ddoc isn't good enough for Phobos, why is it in the compiler? * If we want ddoc in the compiler, then why not dogfood that for Phobos? * If we don't want ddoc in the compiler, why is spend time improving it? Thanks.
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 20:56:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 12:28 PM, "Ulrich =?UTF-8?B?S8O8dHRsZXIi?= " wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 17:44:59 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png that is. -- Andrei You could go a long way with a little tracking code on dlang.org. Just saying. What do you mean? -- Andrei Using google analytics or something of that kind you would get proper visitor counts (plus metadata) on all pages. The basic setup is very simple (a little tag on all pages) and provides a lot of insight: https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1008080?hl=en#GA The sky is the limit with these kinds of tools, but you probably do not want to go there. There might be ethical objections. Both golang.org and www.rust-lang.org track their users. Just search for google-analytics in the page source. Uli
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 21:16:41 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/11/2015 11:50 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 10:48 AM, Walter Bright wrote: The main problem is what to do about comments, which don't fit into the grammar. In the first version comments might go through unchanged. Consider: for /*comment*/ (a; b; c) Do what with that? Why not just move the comment to the end of the expression?
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On 1/11/15 1:15 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/11/2015 11:50 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 10:48 AM, Walter Bright wrote: The main problem is what to do about comments, which don't fit into the grammar. In the first version comments might go through unchanged. Consider: for /*comment*/ (a; b; c) Do what with that? I don't know. Simplest would be to punt for now - such rare embedded comments should not be blockers. -- Andrei
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 19:30:59 UTC, ponce wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 18:25:39 UTC, francesco.cattoglio wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 14:10:56 UTC, ponce wrote: None of them has Visual Studio integration with debugging support and that is pretty important for native and enterprise programmers. If I remember correctly, just 2 month ago someone was explaining how they lost a commercial user because D debugging experience was still not good enough by a long shot. And in my daily use, debug experience is still subpar on windows. only to discover it is not fun enough and fun is more important than "memory safety without GC". WHAT? Syntax is boring, but I don't get the sense of the sentence Right, might be personal judgement, at this point I was in rant-mode. :) Rust is supposed to replace C++, and it happens working in C++ since years, I can't help but notice we actually have very few memory safety problems, to the point that I question that it's something worth worrying about[cutted] Somehow I feel you are in the very lucky position of having top notch colleagues, with small attrition in team members and budget to buy C++ sanitation tools. Many of the projects I worked for hadn't that luck. Although I have spent part of Sunday doing C++ coding with the Android NDK, I don't miss those long weeks at work, looking for that pointer causing a server core dump, only to find out it was a double free/delete or an out of bounds error in a complete different module several minutes before the crash. -- Paulo
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On 1/11/2015 11:50 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 10:48 AM, Walter Bright wrote: The main problem is what to do about comments, which don't fit into the grammar. In the first version comments might go through unchanged. Consider: for /*comment*/ (a; b; c) Do what with that?
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On 1/11/15 12:28 PM, "Ulrich =?UTF-8?B?S8O8dHRsZXIi?= " wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 17:44:59 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png that is. -- Andrei You could go a long way with a little tracking code on dlang.org. Just saying. What do you mean? -- Andrei
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 20:47:37 UTC, weaselcat wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 19:42:38 UTC, ponce wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 19:38:12 UTC, bearophile wrote: Are you always able to detect them? I think languages (and programmers) that don't have a strict attitude toward memory safety will be slowly left behind in the few next years. D is lacking in this (and the scoping management should be able to plug some holes, and in the meantime there is this: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dmd/pull/4277 ). There are tools to do that: https://software.intel.com/en-us/intel-inspector-xe When we do have a memory safety bug, these tools help, and then I think "this wouldn't have happened in D" even without @safe. So I don't think D lacking in this. Recently both Clang and GCC(? I think GCC has all of them now, maybe not) have integrated address,memory,thread, and undefined behavior sanitizer tools directly into their compiler aswell. http://clang.llvm.org/docs/UsersManual.html#controlling-code-generation I don't think the memory safety issue is as big of an issue for 99% of people as it is for a group like Mozilla. I'm not even sure if Rust is going to replace C++ so much as possibly displace Ada. Rust's lifetimes and borrow checker also really aren't fun, I feel like it really breaks my flow when I use Rust. It's like the opposite of python(or D), where I can get the least amount of scaffolding I need to get my concepts working, then fix it later. Maybe the language just isn't targeted for someone like me though. Rust still has things I'd like to see in D. Just my two cents. P.S., the sanitizer tools are built directly ontop of LLVM AFAIK(I haven't looked into how GCC incorporated them,) is there any chance we could ever see them being used for D?
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 19:42:38 UTC, ponce wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 19:38:12 UTC, bearophile wrote: Are you always able to detect them? I think languages (and programmers) that don't have a strict attitude toward memory safety will be slowly left behind in the few next years. D is lacking in this (and the scoping management should be able to plug some holes, and in the meantime there is this: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dmd/pull/4277 ). There are tools to do that: https://software.intel.com/en-us/intel-inspector-xe When we do have a memory safety bug, these tools help, and then I think "this wouldn't have happened in D" even without @safe. So I don't think D lacking in this. Recently both Clang and GCC(? I think GCC has all of them now, maybe not) have integrated address,memory,thread, and undefined behavior sanitizer tools directly into their compiler aswell. http://clang.llvm.org/docs/UsersManual.html#controlling-code-generation I don't think the memory safety issue is as big of an issue for 99% of people as it is for a group like Mozilla. I'm not even sure if Rust is going to replace C++ so much as possibly displace Ada. Rust's lifetimes and borrow checker also really aren't fun, I feel like it really breaks my flow when I use Rust. It's like the opposite of python(or D), where I can get the least amount of scaffolding I need to get my concepts working, then fix it later. Maybe the language just isn't targeted for someone like me though. Rust still has things I'd like to see in D. Just my two cents.
Foreach, return not exist the function.
First time i used foreach with opApply in my classed, and i got
this strange behavior.
return e, not exit the function "findClass"
i tried to reproduce it, but it is worked in reproduce example.
but you can read it and read the result of writeln.
I still feel it is my eyes or a small mistake.
-
SrdController findClass(const ClassInfo controllerClass)
{
foreach(e; this) {
if (e.classinfo.name == controllerClass.name) {
writeln("we found " ~ e.classinfo.name);
return e;
}
}
writeln("not found ");
return null;
}
results
--
sard.parsers.SrdControllers.add(sard.parsers.SrdControllerNormal)
sard.parsers.SrdControllers.add(sard.parsers.SrdControllerDefines)
we found sard.parsers.SrdControllerNormal
not found
reproduce example here
http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/13fb453d0b1e
it is part for opensource code here
https://github.com/parmaja/sard/blob/master/src/sard/parsers.d#L222
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 17:44:59 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png that is. -- Andrei You could go a long way with a little tracking code on dlang.org. Just saying.
Improving http://dlang.org/library/index.html
I'm looking into ways to improve http://dlang.org/library/index.html. Specifically I want to remove (some of) the std.c modules or at least move them below, render the module names in code font, etc. Again, ddox is rather opaque. Is there a source for that page, or is it hardcoded somewhere? Searching for the title 'API documentation' yields no results. Thanks, Andrei
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 19:38:12 UTC, bearophile wrote: ponce: Rust is supposed to replace C++, and it happens working in C++ since years, I can't help but notice we actually have very few memory safety problems, Are you always able to detect them? When Intel MPX comes you should be able to in debug builds, since you then supposedly cache the bounds for all mallocs. It basically attaches bounds to every pointer with a hardware mechanism for lookups. And you can turn it off at runtime, which turns the MPX instructions into NOP. So you can basically deploy an application with MPX builtin and tell a customer to turn on MPX if there is a problem that is suspected to be memory related. But keep in mind that linear typing also affords safer multi-threading and removes doubts about aliasing which can prevent optimization... How important is it? Time will show && YMMV.
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 19:49:32 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 10:25 AM, francesco.cattoglio wrote: And I say it as a daily D user, daily facing issues like the horrible invalidMemoryOperationError exception. What is that? It happens if you try to do a GC operation while the GC is running. The typical cause is allocating in a destructor. (Accessing reference type member variables from class destructor is another way to get a crash, since the GC might collect them first.) There's a handful of memory issues in D, some with the GC and some when you try to avoid the GC, but they typically don't bother me perhaps because I've learned to avoid problematic areas, like non-trivial class destructors.
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On 1/11/15 10:48 AM, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/11/2015 9:45 AM, Stefan Koch wrote: I'm powerful writing a parser-generator, that will be able to transform the generated parse-tree back into source automatically. writing a rule-based formatter should be pretty doable. Formatting the AST into text is straightforward, dmd already does that for .di file generation. The main problem is what to do about comments, which don't fit into the grammar. In the first version comments might go through unchanged. A secondary problem is what to do when the line length limit is exceeded, such as for long expressions. I think that's problem #1. Andrei
Re: Ready to make page-per-item ddocs the default?
On 1/11/15 11:26 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 1/9/15 4:17 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/9/15 12:59 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2015-01-09 20:46, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Stuff's up! http://dlang.org/library-prerelease/core/stdc/complex.html. I couldn't get rid of the darn space between the header name and the period. -- Andrei Is it just me or are the actual declarations missing? Oh yah :o). Steve? -- Andrei Apparently, the documentation generator ignores items that are tagged as documented but without any substance. If I compile a simple doc with a "///" before an item, it does show up when I do dmd -D. So I have no idea how to make it work for this new doc system. Martin Nowak? Sönke Ludwig? Andrei
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On 1/11/15 10:25 AM, francesco.cattoglio wrote: I'm obviously being the devil's advocate here, but we can't just say "D is much more far ahead, we have nothing to fear from Go and Rust", because it's just not true. Totally agreed. It's a competitive climate out there, and we need to mind our competition. And I say it as a daily D user, daily facing issues like the horrible invalidMemoryOperationError exception. What is that? Andrei
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On 2015-01-11 19:48, Walter Bright wrote: The main problem is what to do about comments, which don't fit into the grammar. A secondary problem is what to do when the line length limit is exceeded, such as for long expressions. clang-format seems to do a pretty good job with both of these. Comments seem to be intact unless they're too long, then they're wrapped. It seems to wrap at a space or other non-identifier character. Same thing with expressions that are too long. You should download it [1] a give it a try on some C++ code. [1] http://llvm.org/releases/download.html -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 19:38:12 UTC, bearophile wrote: Are you always able to detect them? I think languages (and programmers) that don't have a strict attitude toward memory safety will be slowly left behind in the few next years. D is lacking in this (and the scoping management should be able to plug some holes, and in the meantime there is this: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dmd/pull/4277 ). There are tools to do that: https://software.intel.com/en-us/intel-inspector-xe When we do have a memory safety bug, these tools help, and then I think "this wouldn't have happened in D" even without @safe. So I don't think D lacking in this.
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
ponce: Rust is supposed to replace C++, and it happens working in C++ since years, I can't help but notice we actually have very few memory safety problems, Are you always able to detect them? I think languages (and programmers) that don't have a strict attitude toward memory safety will be slowly left behind in the few next years. D is lacking in this (and the scoping management should be able to plug some holes, and in the meantime there is this: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dmd/pull/4277 ). Bye, bearophile
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On 2015-01-11 20:20, Walter Bright wrote: Ddoc makes use of semantic info, not just an AST. For semantic info, you pretty much need a real compiler. I've been thinking of that the last couple of days. It should be pretty straightforward to copy-paste the driver part of DMD, i.e the part contains the main function and handling of the command line arguments. Then remove everything that's not needed for Ddoc. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 18:25:39 UTC, francesco.cattoglio wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 14:10:56 UTC, ponce wrote: None of them has Visual Studio integration with debugging support and that is pretty important for native and enterprise programmers. If I remember correctly, just 2 month ago someone was explaining how they lost a commercial user because D debugging experience was still not good enough by a long shot. And in my daily use, debug experience is still subpar on windows. only to discover it is not fun enough and fun is more important than "memory safety without GC". WHAT? Syntax is boring, but I don't get the sense of the sentence Right, might be personal judgement, at this point I was in rant-mode. :) Rust is supposed to replace C++, and it happens working in C++ since years, I can't help but notice we actually have very few memory safety problems, to the point that I question that it's something worth worrying about. At least, more than D does with .init and bound checking. Bjarne himself talks about how language users ask for different things that what they actually want here: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2014/Keynote (see 27:40) Has this changed fundamentally? I'm obviously being the devil's advocate here, but we can't just say "D is much more far ahead, we have nothing to fear from Go and Rust", because it's just not true. And I say it as a daily D user, daily facing issues like the horrible invalidMemoryOperationError exception. When does invalidMemoryOperationError happen and how do you avoid it?
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 12:47:41 + Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > I don't think it'll be hard to do as a builtin feature of dmd. > > It should be a separate tool not a part of one of the three compilers. i can't see anything wrong with built-in tool. even if it can't be configured to one's tastes, it's still good for occasional contributors, who can stop worrying about code formatting and just write that code. and if it will be configurable (which is not that hard to do -- to some extent), it will be usable for many more people. besides, being part of the compiler this tool has a good chances of being always up-to-date. as there is already .di emitter, i believe that is can be customised further to do full code formatting. the only thing left to solve is comments (not a small one, though). i.e. compiler already has most of the work done, why not reuse it? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Ready to make page-per-item ddocs the default?
On 1/9/15 4:17 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/9/15 12:59 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2015-01-09 20:46, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Stuff's up! http://dlang.org/library-prerelease/core/stdc/complex.html. I couldn't get rid of the darn space between the header name and the period. -- Andrei Is it just me or are the actual declarations missing? Oh yah :o). Steve? -- Andrei Apparently, the documentation generator ignores items that are tagged as documented but without any substance. If I compile a simple doc with a "///" before an item, it does show up when I do dmd -D. So I have no idea how to make it work for this new doc system. -Steve
Re: An idea for commercial support for D
On 11 January 2015 at 16:23, Joakim via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 16:13:01 UTC, Dicebot wrote: >>> >>> There are very few "monopolies" in software, essentially none nowadays. >> >> >> :D :D :D :D :D >> >> I have not laughed so hard for quite a while. Modern IT industry is >> absolutely dominated by monopolies / oligopolies. >> >> Hard to reason with you if this is what you see. > > > You should really try to keep up to date with recent market share stats: > > http://www.businessinsider.in/In-Case-You-Dont-Appreciate-How-Fast-The-Windows-Monopoly-Is-Getting-Destroyed-/articleshow/21123434.cms Why should Monopoly automatically mean Microsoft? ;-)
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On 1/11/2015 5:11 AM, Dicebot wrote: I would love to see DDOC implemented that way too. Ddoc makes use of semantic info, not just an AST. For semantic info, you pretty much need a real compiler.
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On 1/11/2015 4:47 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote: Next question - standalone tool, or built in to dmd (like Ddoc)? Also why in DMD and not in LDC or GDC? It would be in the DMD front end, so LDC and GDC would it automatically. 1. people expect this sort of thing these days Thanks to Python PEP-8 and Go, yes. Personalized code formatting is increasingly a thing of the past, programming languages are now opinionated and fascist when it comes to formatting. Even if the rules are wrong. The rules are always going to be wrong. But in this case, that's ok. 2. it tends to end bikeshedding arguments about the right way to format things Except when the tool implements the wrong style. Sometimes it's better to just conform. 3. it'll help standardize the format of D code in the D repositories Even if it is the wrong formatting standard? I have to admit that the Phobos format rules make the code look appallingly ugly to me, sufficiently so that I really do not want to work on that codebase. I guess I am biased towards K&R C (which I use to drive my C++ style), Java and Go. Really? Like what? After many years of arguing about formatting myself, I decided that I had better things to waste my time on. 4. it's simply nice and convenient! Working with Go in Emacs or LiteIDE is a bit of a joy as you get full reformatting on save. Fortunately I only have two main gripes with the Go formatting style, but no-one has a choice, use the Go style as dictated by the Go team at Google or do not use Go. So you decided to conform rather than not use Go. (Anyhow, I suggest that gofmt is only mandatory if you wish to contribute to offical Go code, not for your own projects.)
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 18:37:31 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: For once, I agree with you :-D You're in denial, you meant "like always". ;ˆ]
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
On 1/11/2015 9:45 AM, Stefan Koch wrote: I'm powerful writing a parser-generator, that will be able to transform the generated parse-tree back into source automatically. writing a rule-based formatter should be pretty doable. Formatting the AST into text is straightforward, dmd already does that for .di file generation. The main problem is what to do about comments, which don't fit into the grammar. A secondary problem is what to do when the line length limit is exceeded, such as for long expressions.
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On 1/11/2015 6:48 AM, "Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQi?= " wrote: You know what, if you push out the projects which are tiny utilities that solves real world problems, then you might get people interested. If you can solve such real world problems in 40 lines of code it is good marketing. Isn't that the foundation of Python's popularity? And perl before that? And php? Just do it! :) For once, I agree with you :-D I often enjoy reading short programs that illustrate something clever. Some large project, I'm unlikely to start browsing its source.
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 17:44:59 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/11/15 9:43 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I just regenerated the 28-day moving average graph: erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png that is. -- Andrei Considered doing a scatter plot of geolocations (based on ip)?
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On 1/11/2015 7:29 AM, Dicebot wrote: I liked in Rust more were also things I complained about in D for ages before. I know the feeling. My internal state of "the right way to write programs" evolves constantly.
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 14:10:56 UTC, ponce wrote: None of them has Visual Studio integration with debugging support and that is pretty important for native and enterprise programmers. If I remember correctly, just 2 month ago someone was explaining how they lost a commercial user because D debugging experience was still not good enough by a long shot. And in my daily use, debug experience is still subpar on windows. only to discover it is not fun enough and fun is more important than "memory safety without GC". WHAT? Syntax is boring, but I don't get the sense of the sentence I don't buy in the Rust team stability guarantees, you can't go from pondering about removing "box" this very week. They have not broken any promise just yet! :P And I somehow hope they can really manage a high level of stability after discussing throughtly this much about every bikeshed topic (including the recent int/uint change). And as soon as Servo is interrupted because of internal politics at Mozilla or rebudgeting (ie. very high probability), Rust will be halted in a heartbeat since loosing its purpose. Ever noticed the Rust original designer jumped off ship long ago? I do agree that this might be a real risk. But the bus factor for the D project ain't the smallest either. D development could grind to a halt if a handful of developers retire from the project. I'm obviously being the devil's advocate here, but we can't just say "D is much more far ahead, we have nothing to fear from Go and Rust", because it's just not true. And I say it as a daily D user, daily facing issues like the horrible invalidMemoryOperationError exception.
Want to make http://dconf.org more attractive?
Please add here! https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dconf.org/pulls. I'm thinking CSS, design, layout, content, the whole enchilada. dconf.org is a much smaller site than dlang.org and has much fewer constraints., Contributions appreciated! Andrei
Re: Is anyone working on a D source code formatting tool?
I'm powerful writing a parser-generator, that will be able to transform the generated parse-tree back into source automatically. writing a rule-based formatter should be pretty doable.
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On 1/11/15 9:43 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I just regenerated the 28-day moving average graph: erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png http://erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png that is. -- Andrei
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On 1/11/15 8:27 AM, MattCoder wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 15:44:42 UTC, thedeemon wrote: ...For example, compare these stats: http://www.code2014.com/ http://code2013.herokuapp.com/ Interesting charts. But on the other hand, I remember that sometime ago Andrei posted ( http://forum.dlang.org/thread/lu6mhc$t2k$1...@digitalmars.com ) some numbers: DL | Month 5886 2013-01 5525 2013-02 22799 2013-03 11717 2013-04 6214 2013-05 9614 2013-06 11455 2013-07 16803 2013-08 20835 2013-09 19009 2013-10 20569 2013-11 15742 2013-12 18002 2014-01 20191 2014-02 18651 2014-03 19600 2014-04 21015 2014-05 20962 2014-06 34979 2014-07 34288 2014-08 1088 2014-09-01 ( Just 3 days ). I just regenerated the 28-day moving average graph: erdani.com/d/downloads.daily.png Andrei
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On 1/11/15 7:29 AM, Dicebot wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 14:43:08 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: Maybe we should do a comparison thread between D and Rust. It might be interesting, and perhaps encourage some improvements to D. I am actually writing a "Rust guide as read by D developer" article now making random notes on topic. But I don't see this affecting D much as most of the things I liked in Rust more were also things I complained about in D for ages before. That sounds like a very interesting article. Looking forward to it. -- Andrei
Re: Is it possible to collect object usage information during compilation?
On 1/11/15 8:21 AM, DaveG wrote: On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 09:54:42 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2015-01-11 02:08, DaveG wrote: In the past I have used FreeTDS, through PHP, and it had a lot of problems. This was several years ago and could have been at least partially due to the PHP layer. Last year I messed around with the ODBC wrapper and got amazingly poor performance, I believe the project was abandoned before I figured out the problem. Anybody actually using this in D? I'll have to write some tests and fire up the SQL profiler. We used Ruby on Rails with an SQL Server at my previous work. We used TinyTDS which uses FreeTDS. It worked surprisingly well but it did had some problems. One of those problems were encoding problems, but that mostly because we used an older version of SQL Server. It was probably around 2011 when last I used FreeTDS, and even then I think it was an older version, so it's quite possible those issues have been resolved. My bias against it probably unjustified. We are only targeting Windows anyway so ODBC is probably a safe bet. Should be easy to extract the necessaries for a generic ODBC driver for D from https://github.com/prestodb/presto-odbc. -- Andrei
Re: ddox question
On 1/11/15 3:03 AM, Mathias LANG wrote: On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 17:23:24 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: In the ddox-generated documentation the heading is e.g. "Module std.container". I wanted to style "std.container" in code font, but can't find where that text is generated. I've searched dlang.org/ and dub/, no avail. Andrei IIUC, you're looking for this: https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/blob/ce797a3182c1263feb4a6f4c9ce9b88b95d83003/views/layout.dt Which is the base of all layout. But from a quick look (https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/ddox/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=h1), the title is the only h1 on the page, so you could just tweak the CSS. I don't think the CSS would be enough. The "title" is "Module xxx.yyy". I only need to format "xxx.yyy" in code font. How do I do that? -- Andrei
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 16:30:09 UTC, MattCoder wrote: Yes, that was what I saw on this thread: http://forum.dlang.org/thread/lu6mhc$t2k$1...@digitalmars.com I don't think such statistics matters much. Downloads is a bad measure, retention rate is what you want to measure (the ratio of people trying vs using). Just focus on what works for your projects and whether the maturity level of the tool and the ecosystem supports what you want to do. Different languages appeal to different domains, but with the less popular tools you have to do a lot yourself or create C/C++ bindings. Compare eco-system repositories and you'll get an idea of what profiles different languages have: http://code.dlang.org/ http://godoc.org/-/index https://github.com/search?q=stars%3A%3E10&l=rust
Re: Is it possible to collect object usage information during compilation?
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 10:06:53 UTC, Paolo Invernizzi wrote: On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 20:53:47 UTC, DaveG wrote: On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 18:31:18 UTC, Paolo Invernizzi wrote: I would like to see, someday, something in D that: - can check at compile time the syntax of SQL; - can check at compile time the SQL query statement against the current DB schema; - can read the output of a DB schema dump at CT, and parse it into what is needed for the previous points (more complicated); One final note. You may have noticed I didn't mention the schema syncing problem (keeping database and code in sync). There was a time I would have said that was essential and while it would be nice in a perfect world, I'm comfortable keeping them in sync manually (or semi-manual with scripts). I can generate a bunch of classes from an existing database fairly easily and when I change a table I can manually update a class. If I was writing SQL directly I would have to update my query, this is really no different. Doing validation in unit tests is perfectly acceptable to me. I think basically we have the same feeling over the ORM topic. Doing validation in unit tests is for sure acceptable, but my point is that I would like CT validation of plain SQL query over the current DB schema without having to use an ORM. ;-) --- Paolo I agree. That's one thing Couldfusion did well that I haven't really seen since. You could write blocks of SQL complete with validation and syntax highlighting (depending on the editor). Because the SQL parser was built in you could then take resultsets returned from the database and perform additional queries on them locally. The problem a SQL parser doesn't solve is writing dynamic queries which require piecing together a bunch of partial statements. This is where an abstraction layer can really be useful. -Dave
Re: Why exceptions for error handling is so important
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 13:25:59 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 13:06:26 + Dicebot via Digitalmars-d wrote: What is your opinion of approach advertised by various functional languages and now also Rust? Where you return error code packed with actual data and can't access data without visiting error code too, compiler simply won't allow it. from my POV it trashes logic with error checking. hey, i don't care if *each* `fwrite()` is successfull, i only care if all of them are ok or at least one (any one) failed! This is where monads and applicatives shine. You can describe the general logic (run 'till first error or collect and combine all errors or something else) in one place and then apply this way of error handling throughout with minimal code, and you can often change the error handling approach later just by changing a type, without editing actual function source code.
Re: Why exceptions for error handling is so important
to not let ranges succumb to such a problem I wrote: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/2724
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 13:57:54 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote: That guy has been trolling every D thread in the last year. I didn't know that. Glad you said! Either way, D is definitely way more popular/active than it was a year ago, especially with a large jump around last summer but not nearly as much as Go nor Rust at the moment... Yes, that was what I saw on this thread: http://forum.dlang.org/thread/lu6mhc$t2k$1...@digitalmars.com Matheus.
Re: Thoughts on replacement languages (Reddit + D)
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 15:44:42 UTC, thedeemon wrote: ...For example, compare these stats: http://www.code2014.com/ http://code2013.herokuapp.com/ Interesting charts. But on the other hand, I remember that sometime ago Andrei posted ( http://forum.dlang.org/thread/lu6mhc$t2k$1...@digitalmars.com ) some numbers: DL | Month 5886 2013-01 5525 2013-02 22799 2013-03 11717 2013-04 6214 2013-05 9614 2013-06 11455 2013-07 16803 2013-08 20835 2013-09 19009 2013-10 20569 2013-11 15742 2013-12 18002 2014-01 20191 2014-02 18651 2014-03 19600 2014-04 21015 2014-05 20962 2014-06 34979 2014-07 34288 2014-08 1088 2014-09-01 ( Just 3 days ). Matheus.
