Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Tuesday, 6 August 2019 at 22:57:52 UTC, a11e99z wrote: On Tuesday, 6 August 2019 at 20:20:13 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: On Tuesday, 6 August 2019 at 19:02:09 UTC, a11e99z wrote: hi. can not compile for Windows LDC ver 1.16.0. Currently ldc 1.16.0 isn't supported. You can downgrade to ldc 1.15.0 spasm 0.1.13: target for configuration "library" is up to date. test_spasm ~master: building configuration "application"... Error: unrecognized file extension lib ?? ldc2 failed with exit code 1. Have you tried the github issues? I remember dukc having the same issue on windows as well. tried. --combined => got error about time.d. could not fix, idk how to fix. Read further down the github issue. You have to hack some included DUB libraries, unless you can come up with a cleaner solution than I did. LDC 1.16.0 is working (it compiles manually) ldc2 1.16.0 will compile the code, but not link it. And if you want to run ldc2 manually, you will want to dry-run dub with verbose and copy the invocation from it. A `--combined` build is too complicated to get working otherwise. Don't mind DUB trying to build an executable. In fact, it has to be. If it builds a "library", it will silently generate some code that's not WASM, or at least can't be used as WASM. The file extension will be incorrect, but you can change it. Sebastiaan just recently opened a LDC2 issue for that.
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Tuesday, 6 August 2019 at 22:57:52 UTC, a11e99z wrote: tried. --combined => got error about time.d. could not fix, idk how to fix. If calling ldc2 manually you need to use the -betterC flag, see https://wiki.dlang.org/Generating_WebAssembly_with_LDC for the minimal working example. so, I think need to fix dub/sdl/json generating for wasm/spasm for Windows - -of=..WASM not EXE - libs as last with prefix -L="". probably all file names better put in quotes. probably with Unix-slashes I have opened a dub issue for the .lib .exe issue. https://github.com/dlang/dub/issues/1749
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Tuesday, 6 August 2019 at 20:20:13 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: On Tuesday, 6 August 2019 at 19:02:09 UTC, a11e99z wrote: hi. can not compile for Windows LDC ver 1.16.0. Currently ldc 1.16.0 isn't supported. You can downgrade to ldc 1.15.0 spasm 0.1.13: target for configuration "library" is up to date. test_spasm ~master: building configuration "application"... Error: unrecognized file extension lib ?? ldc2 failed with exit code 1. Have you tried the github issues? I remember dukc having the same issue on windows as well. tried. --combined => got error about time.d. could not fix, idk how to fix. but noticed (dub ... -verbose): LDC 1.16.0 is working (it compiles manually) next is all one command for ldc2: -- ldc2 -march=wasm32 -mtriple=wasm32-unknown-unknown-wasm (TRIED TO COMPILE AS EXE. STRANGE.) -of.dub\build\application-release-windows-x86_64-ldc_2086-56E77341043F1C073D6FBEAF77ADA9DD\test_spasm.exe -release -enable-inlining -Hkeep-all-bodies -O3 -w -betterC -oq -od=.dub/obj -d-version=Have_test_spasm -d-version=Have_spasm -d-version=Have_optional -d-version=Have_stdx_allocator -d-version=Have_silly -d-version=Have_bolts -Isource -IC:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\dub\packages\spasm-0.1.13\spasm\source -IC:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\dub\packages\optional-0.10.1\optional\source -IC:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\dub\packages\optional-0.10.1\optional\tests -IC:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\dub\packages\silly-0.8.2\silly -IC:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\dub\packages\bolts-0.11.1\bolts\source -IC:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\dub\packages\stdx-allocator-2.77.3\stdx-allocator\source source\app.d (THEN GOES LIBs) C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\dub\packages\spasm-0.1.13\spasm\.dub\build\library-release-windows-x86_64-ldc_2086-03DE6820B544BF9EAB97CE35CB0DA4D7\spasm.lib C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\dub\packages\optional-0.10.1\optional\.dub\build\unittest-release-windows-x86_64-ldc_2086-DEEA6FC19C1418B5171E828BA5E99DC8\optional.lib C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\dub\packages\bolts-0.11.1\bolts\.dub\build\library-release-windows-x86_64-ldc_2086-E329422C7585D577B1C88E0E057669D3\bolts.lib C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\dub\packages\stdx-allocator-2.77.3\stdx-allocator\.dub\build\library-release-windows-x86_64-ldc_2086-3B7150DF4B0522F5FB22F1145FECC671\stdx-allocator.lib (THEN GOES OPTIONS AGAIN) -L=-allow-undefined -L=-import-memory -L=--export-table -L=--export=domEvent -L=--export=allocString -vcolumns -- Error: unrecognized file extension lib -- so, I call ldc2 manually with almost same args but: - all libs I put in quotes with prefix -L="././.lib" with Unix-slashes (not Windows \) - moved all libs as last params - removed -of option that request EXE after such work LDC compiled my sample to valid WASM (not ran it yet, but see as WAT through https://webassembly.github.io/wabt/demo/wasm2wat/) app.wasm 2,216,143 (size in bytes) so, I think need to fix dub/sdl/json generating for wasm/spasm for Windows - -of=..WASM not EXE - libs as last with prefix -L="". probably all file names better put in quotes. probably with Unix-slashes
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Tuesday, 6 August 2019 at 19:02:09 UTC, a11e99z wrote: hi. can not compile for Windows LDC ver 1.16.0. Currently ldc 1.16.0 isn't supported. You can downgrade to ldc 1.15.0 spasm 0.1.13: target for configuration "library" is up to date. test_spasm ~master: building configuration "application"... Error: unrecognized file extension lib ?? ldc2 failed with exit code 1. Have you tried the github issues? I remember dukc having the same issue on windows as well. and I have some questions: - spasm contains some GC-allocator. can I use "hello" ~ 123.to!string or something? or I can use string literals only without some kind of string builder? No you cannot use the concat operator (~). Neither can you use new, class, AA or dynamic arrays among others. This is because Spasm uses betterC, and a lot of D features aren't available in betterC. I am working on a PR for druntime to at least compile to wasm without betterC. This will open the way to incrementally support more and more D features. In the meantime you need to get familiar with the betterC constraints. You can always look in the examples for workable code. Make sure to use the 0.1.13 tag, since master has some new unreleased stuff (which I hope to release in the coming month). There is a string builder in spasm as well as a betterC version of the phobos `text` function. The GC allocator is still unreleased and experimental.
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Tuesday, 6 August 2019 at 19:02:09 UTC, a11e99z wrote: hi. can not compile for Windows DUB used first time. LDC ver 1.16.0. C:\temp\D\test_spasm>where dub.exe C:\programz\D\ldc2\bin\dub.exe C:\programz\D\dmd2\windows\bin\dub.exe Apparently some guy made it working on Windows by modifying some stdlib files: https://github.com/skoppe/spasm/issues/15
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Friday, 12 October 2018 at 19:43:25 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: I like to announce Spasm https://github.com/skoppe/spasm hi. can not compile for Windows DUB used first time. LDC ver 1.16.0. C:\temp\D\test_spasm>where dub.exe C:\programz\D\ldc2\bin\dub.exe C:\programz\D\dmd2\windows\bin\dub.exe https://github.com/skoppe/spasm#how-to-start OK https://github.com/skoppe/spasm#how-to-compile-your-application ERROR C:\temp\D\test_spasm>dub build --compiler=ldc2 --build=release Performing "release" build using ldc2 for x86_64. bolts 0.11.1: target for configuration "library" is up to date. optional 0.10.1: target for configuration "unittest" is up to date. stdx-allocator 2.77.3: target for configuration "library" is up to date. spasm 0.1.13: target for configuration "library" is up to date. test_spasm ~master: building configuration "application"... Error: unrecognized file extension lib ?? ldc2 failed with exit code 1. and I have some questions: - can DUB generate VisualD project? - spasm contains some GC-allocator. can I use "hello" ~ 123.to!string or something? or I can use string literals only without some kind of string builder?
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
https://github.com/kripken/emscripten/wiki/Pthreads-with-WebAssembly
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Wednesday, 17 October 2018 at 19:07:16 UTC, aberba wrote: A common use case for wasm is to port C++ native apps to web. e.g. is the recent autoCAD web app which does almost everything the desktop app can. That's the only reason to IMO do stuff in wasm. Games, productivity software, etc...performance. Spasm might just be perfect for that kind of stuff There are issues getting the current GC ported to webassembly, so it is hard to port D code to wasm. That is one of the reasons why spasm has taken the betterC approach. But remember, spasm is just a library to render and update html, and to respond to dom events. It won't help you in anyway to port something to wasm. If you really want to port existing D code to wasm you either need to rewrite that in betterC or port druntime, which includes writing a precise GC. Dscripten-tools is a move in that direction. The reason spasm exists is because I wanted to optimise web application's rendering code at compile-time, to reduce the runtime (setup) costs and to deliver high performant web applications. I first tried to do that by writing a javascript optimiser that can take React code as input and spit out highly optimised js code. I got pretty far with that but at one point I realised that to do it well I needed advanced things like data-flow analysis and abstract interpretation. So I decided to ditched that and just use D's static introspection and LLVM's wasm target. A couple of weeks after that spasm was born.
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Sunday, 14 October 2018 at 19:04:51 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: On Sunday, 14 October 2018 at 06:03:10 UTC, Bogdan wrote: Awesome work! I remember that, at some point the https://glimmerjs.com/ authors wanted to write their vm in rust for better performance. It looks like D is a new option for such projects. Bogdan Thanks, a lot of credits go to LDC for supporting the webassembly backend of LLVM. I thought about doing a VM as well, specifically because I was afraid of the performance penalty of switching a lot between js and wasm. The idea was to emit all dom operations into one bytebuffer (possibly at compile-time) and then instruct js to execute that. It turns out jumping between wasm and js isn't really a big deal (at least not anymore), so I ditched that idea to keep things simple. I saw a recent announcement by the Firefox devs on some massive improvements they've made in the js-wasm switching speed. Its negligible for most cases...unless probably something crazy. Its was very fast...especially for a benchmark of 100 million calls with Math.random() https://hacks.mozilla.org/2018/10/calls-between-javascript-and-webassembly-are-finally-fast-%F0%9F%8E%89/ Plus, there is a good chance that in the near future wasm will be able to call the browsers' api directly. Have you seen this? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAssembly/Using_the_JavaScript_API I'm not sure how limited it is though.
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Tuesday, 16 October 2018 at 07:57:12 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: On Tuesday, 16 October 2018 at 03:23:21 UTC, Jesse Phillips wrote: It would be cool if D provided the easiest way to develop webasm first to see if it could claim that market. If you have some minutes to spare it would be great if you could try it out. It should only take 10min to render your first divs, otherwise something is wrong. The major hurdle with any wasm dom framework is that there are no standard components to build on (like dropdowns, drag-n-drop, input validations, notifications, etc.), nor any css frameworks (like material ui, bootstrap). So'll need to build everything from scratch, and no sane person is likely to do that. What might be an option is to try to integrate with other wasm libraries out there, so at least we can use their components. But everyone does his own thing, so integrating is going to be hard as well. A common use case for wasm is to port C++ native apps to web. e.g. is the recent autoCAD web app which does almost everything the desktop app can. That's the only reason to IMO do stuff in wasm. Games, productivity software, etc...performance. Spasm might just be perfect for that kind of stuff
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Tuesday, 16 October 2018 at 03:23:21 UTC, Jesse Phillips wrote: It would be cool if D provided the easiest way to develop webasm first to see if it could claim that market. If you have some minutes to spare it would be great if you could try it out. It should only take 10min to render your first divs, otherwise something is wrong. The major hurdle with any wasm dom framework is that there are no standard components to build on (like dropdowns, drag-n-drop, input validations, notifications, etc.), nor any css frameworks (like material ui, bootstrap). So'll need to build everything from scratch, and no sane person is likely to do that. What might be an option is to try to integrate with other wasm libraries out there, so at least we can use their components. But everyone does his own thing, so integrating is going to be hard as well.
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Friday, 12 October 2018 at 19:43:25 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: I like to announce Spasm https://github.com/skoppe/spasm It is a webassembly library to develop single page applications and builds on my previous work This is really interesting. I don't do web development myself and haven't been doing hobby programming, but I like the idea of of webasm. It would be cool if D provided the easiest way to develop webasm first to see if it could claim that market.
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Sunday, 14 October 2018 at 19:04:51 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: It turns out jumping between wasm and js isn't really a big deal (at least not anymore), so I ditched that idea to keep things simple. Plus, there is a good chance that in the near future wasm will be able to call the browsers' api directly. Precisely, that is why I like this approach. Good job.
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Sunday, 14 October 2018 at 06:03:10 UTC, Bogdan wrote: Awesome work! I remember that, at some point the https://glimmerjs.com/ authors wanted to write their vm in rust for better performance. It looks like D is a new option for such projects. Bogdan Thanks, a lot of credits go to LDC for supporting the webassembly backend of LLVM. I thought about doing a VM as well, specifically because I was afraid of the performance penalty of switching a lot between js and wasm. The idea was to emit all dom operations into one bytebuffer (possibly at compile-time) and then instruct js to execute that. It turns out jumping between wasm and js isn't really a big deal (at least not anymore), so I ditched that idea to keep things simple. Plus, there is a good chance that in the near future wasm will be able to call the browsers' api directly.
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Friday, 12 October 2018 at 19:43:25 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: I like to announce Spasm https://github.com/skoppe/spasm It is a webassembly library to develop single page applications and builds on my previous work (https://forum.dlang.org/post/eqneqstmwfzugymfe...@forum.dlang.org). It generates fast and small webassembly binaries. The example todo-mvc is only 5995 bytes (wasm) + 2199 bytes (html+js) when gzipped, and loads pretty fast (https://skoppe.github.io/spasm/examples/todo-mvc/) Spasm can be used with dub and only requires a recent version of ldc. See the readme on github how to get started. The library includes a webpack bootstrap project to build a production ready web page. Spasm is written in betterC. Next steps are: - more js host bindings (xhr, localstorage, etc.) - memory deallocation - gather an angry mob to make phobos more betterC compatible ;) Awesome work! I remember that, at some point the https://glimmerjs.com/ authors wanted to write their vm in rust for better performance. It looks like D is a new option for such projects. Bogdan
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Friday, 12 October 2018 at 19:43:25 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: I like to announce Spasm https://github.com/skoppe/spasm It is a webassembly library to develop single page applications and builds on my previous work (https://forum.dlang.org/post/eqneqstmwfzugymfe...@forum.dlang.org). I must say even at this stage this library is awesome! Good job! Keep up with the good work! :)
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Saturday, 13 October 2018 at 04:34:28 UTC, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) wrote: What are the main current limitations? Mainly that it is written in betterC, which is quite the limitation if you are used to freely call anything from phobos, or expect the GC to clean up. Also I currently don't free memory.
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On Saturday, 13 October 2018 at 04:34:28 UTC, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) wrote: Nifty, I'll have to look into this. Any idea what it would take to get this doing some WebGL? (Or playing audio?) Or is this more for HTML-ish sorts of stuff? This is more focused on HTML rendering, but you can do anything that you can do from JS, you just have to write JS glue code. WebGL is based on and follows the OpenGL ES (Embedded Systems) spec, which is a subset of OpenGL. So if you have the API definitions you are already half done. The other half is writing that in JS and calling the actual WebGL. If you want to do it right now you can use vladimir's dscripten-tools project, which is based on emscripten. I just don't like emscripten because it has a complex toolchain (D->LDC->(patched)LLVM->asm.js->binaryen->wasm) and results in bloated code.
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
Nifty, I'll have to look into this. Any idea what it would take to get this doing some WebGL? (Or playing audio?) Or is this more for HTML-ish sorts of stuff? What are the main current limitations?
Re: Spasm - webassembly libary for single page applications
On 10/12/18 3:43 PM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: I like to announce Spasm https://github.com/skoppe/spasm It is a webassembly library to develop single page applications and builds on my previous work (https://forum.dlang.org/post/eqneqstmwfzugymfe...@forum.dlang.org). It generates fast and small webassembly binaries. The example todo-mvc is only 5995 bytes (wasm) + 2199 bytes (html+js) when gzipped, and loads pretty fast (https://skoppe.github.io/spasm/examples/todo-mvc/) Spasm can be used with dub and only requires a recent version of ldc. See the readme on github how to get started. The library includes a webpack bootstrap project to build a production ready web page. Spasm is written in betterC. Next steps are: - more js host bindings (xhr, localstorage, etc.) - memory deallocation - gather an angry mob to make phobos more betterC compatible ;) OK, this is pretty cool. I need to start checking out webasm. -Steve
