Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-11-05 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 28 October 2019 at 19:23:30 UTC, jmh530 wrote: they are all const. That there is only one mutable way to access data sounds like restrict to me. Well, if you add the constraint that there also is no const way to access the data. But unique ownership is stricter than «restrict»,

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-11-05 Thread Ola Fosheim Grøstad via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 28 October 2019 at 21:53:50 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: I've always known it was a bad idea (not just me, it was common knowledge). People have a hard time understanding restrict, and are guaranteed to use it wrong. Let alone errors using it from people who do understand it.

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-28 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 10/28/2019 2:38 PM, Ben Jones wrote: Just for context, here's a paper arguing restrict without tooling is a bad idea: http://people.cs.pitt.edu/~mock/papers/clei2004.pdf .  Having the compiler enforce it changes the game substantially, I think. I've always known it was a bad idea (not just

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-28 Thread Ben Jones via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 28 October 2019 at 20:23:50 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 10/28/2019 12:23 PM, jmh530 wrote: Is there a connection between this DIP and the restrict qualifier in C? This DIP basically ensures that in @safe code, if a piece of data is accessed only through scope pointers, then there

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-28 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 10/28/2019 12:23 PM, jmh530 wrote: Is there a connection between this DIP and the restrict qualifier in C? This DIP basically ensures that in @safe code, if a piece of data is accessed only through scope pointers, then there must be only one mutable pointer to said data or they are all

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-28 Thread jmh530 via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 20 October 2019 at 12:31:23 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: DIP 1021, "Argument Ownership and Function Calls", has been formally accepted with minor revision. It was updated to make clear that the proposal is one piece of a bigger plan.

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-24 Thread Exil via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 16:54:36 UTC, 12345swordy wrote: "“But D has a GC!”, I hear you exclaim. No body said that. Funny how you chose the simplest argument to argue against. Yes, but it’s also a systems programming language with value types and pointers, meaning that today, D

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-23 Thread 12345swordy via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 15:31:24 UTC, Exil wrote: D isn't a systems programming language "“But D has a GC!”, I hear you exclaim. Yes, but it’s also a systems programming language with value types and pointers, meaning that today, D isn’t memory safe. DIP1000 was a step in the

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-23 Thread Exil via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 04:53:55 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 04:20:19 UTC, Exil wrote: it's a bad idea. Why have two community reviews? Those are made with the assumption that the DIP will actually change between the reviews. No, that's not the

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-23 Thread Exil via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 04:49:52 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 04:20:19 UTC, Exil wrote: Should create a DIPW process then, duck the foundation and any formalities. Which stands for DIPWalter, which simply consists of a single step where a single topic

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-23 Thread Exil via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 15:10:23 UTC, 12345swordy wrote: On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 04:20:19 UTC, Exil wrote: Not to mention the problem is actually solved just by using the GC. The d language is marked as a system programming language. The GC is not going to cut it to a lot

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-23 Thread 12345swordy via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 04:20:19 UTC, Exil wrote: Not to mention the problem is actually solved just by using the GC. The d language is marked as a system programming language. The GC is not going to cut it to a lot of people.(Did you forget the whole betterC flag?) -Alex

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-22 Thread Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 04:20:19 UTC, Exil wrote: it's a bad idea. Why have two community reviews? Those are made with the assumption that the DIP will actually change between the reviews. No, that's not the assumption. You're conflating Community Review with Final Review. There

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-22 Thread Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 04:20:19 UTC, Exil wrote: Should create a DIPW process then, duck the foundation and any formalities. Which stands for DIPWalter, which simply consists of a single step where a single topic tries to convince Walter it's a bad idea. Why have two community

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-22 Thread Exil via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 00:03:35 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Monday, October 21, 2019 6:59:21 AM MDT Exil via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: > This proposal is one step toward a larger goal outlined in > the > > blog post ['Ownership and Borrowing in >

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-22 Thread Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, October 21, 2019 6:59:21 AM MDT Exil via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: > > This proposal is one step toward a larger goal outlined in the > > > > blog post ['Ownership and Borrowing in > > D'](https://dlang.org/blog/2019/07/15/ownership-and-borrowing-in-d/). > > That's the only line

Re: DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-21 Thread Exil via Digitalmars-d-announce
This proposal is one step toward a larger goal outlined in the blog post ['Ownership and Borrowing in D'](https://dlang.org/blog/2019/07/15/ownership-and-borrowing-in-d/). That's the only line that was added, no other changes were made to the core DIP from the first revision to the last. Big

DIP 1021--Argument Ownership and Function Calls--Formal Assessment

2019-10-20 Thread Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d-announce
DIP 1021, "Argument Ownership and Function Calls", has been formally accepted with minor revision. It was updated to make clear that the proposal is one piece of a bigger plan. https://github.com/dlang/DIPs/blob/master/DIPs/accepted/DIP1021.md