Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Friday, 3 February 2023 at 21:05:36 UTC, Adam D Ruppe wrote: BTW I did `time make -j6` this time and it said 10 seconds, so still think the dmd -i approach better but if your incremental builds are smaller it might be better, I did git pull so of course that meant a lot of things were changed anyway. I tried -i as well but ran into a problem with X11 functions that are not defined (I didn't convert every X11 header to D and obviously some dependency is missing - maybe I converted too much for my purpose. I just wonder that you did't run into the same problem. Mysterious...) so for the time being I'd like to focus more on the program than on the build system. But it's only delayed, not forgotten. Btw. about the C libraries, I also tried using the new C header import but failed quite miserably - too many errors with macros and so on. So that is delayed as well.
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Friday, 3 February 2023 at 08:30:55 UTC, Johann Lermer wrote: That at least should be fixed now. Confirmed, works here now! BTW I did `time make -j6` this time and it said 10 seconds, so still think the dmd -i approach better but if your incremental builds are smaller it might be better, I did git pull so of course that meant a lot of things were changed anyway.
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Thursday, 26 January 2023 at 14:31:55 UTC, Adam D Ruppe wrote: I did see the menus popped up in the wrong place though That at least should be fixed now.
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Tuesday, 31 January 2023 at 21:14:04 UTC, WebFreak001 wrote: On Tuesday, 31 January 2023 at 15:03:50 UTC, bachmeier wrote: On Monday, 30 January 2023 at 20:51:59 UTC, Richard (Rikki) Andrew Cattermole wrote: It isn't. WebFreak has an on-going project to replace it. https://forum.dlang.org/post/ojoiwbcftqsxbsviv...@forum.dlang.org https://docs.webfreak.org/ That's quite an improvement. Perhaps it should be announced again, because I don't remember seeing the original post. I already posted it twice on two separate dates and tried to bump them after some time too, I think there is just not much demand in improved DUB docs, people probably think it's kinda fine already. However for newcomers I think it's very worthwhile to do more stuff on there. I'll try writing recipe projects in future as dub examples. Although I'm nearly dropping dub in favor of my own build system, I think I've already played a lot into writing different kind of projects with different use-cases, such as using optional dependencies, building for various platforms, using custom runtimes. From the projects I've seen on dub.pm I think most usually only stick to the basics which is acceptable for small projects
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Tuesday, 31 January 2023 at 15:03:50 UTC, bachmeier wrote: On Monday, 30 January 2023 at 20:51:59 UTC, Richard (Rikki) Andrew Cattermole wrote: It isn't. WebFreak has an on-going project to replace it. https://forum.dlang.org/post/ojoiwbcftqsxbsviv...@forum.dlang.org https://docs.webfreak.org/ That's quite an improvement. Perhaps it should be announced again, because I don't remember seeing the original post. I already posted it twice on two separate dates and tried to bump them after some time too, I think there is just not much demand in improved DUB docs, people probably think it's kinda fine already. However for newcomers I think it's very worthwhile to do more stuff on there.
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Monday, 30 January 2023 at 20:51:59 UTC, Richard (Rikki) Andrew Cattermole wrote: It isn't. WebFreak has an on-going project to replace it. https://forum.dlang.org/post/ojoiwbcftqsxbsviv...@forum.dlang.org https://docs.webfreak.org/ That's quite an improvement. Perhaps it should be announced again, because I don't remember seeing the original post.
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
I've gone ahead and pinged Jan on this. They didn't receive much feedback when first announced :) Part of the problem is dub in general didn't receive much work done on it for the better part of 10 years. It has speed up within the last couple of years :) The registry and with that docs hasn't had that attention put towards it yet though. I'm horrible at writing documentation, so I'm not much help here sadly.
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 11:25:02AM +1300, Richard (Rikki) Andrew Cattermole via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: > Like this? https://docs.webfreak.org/getting-started/first-steps/ Not bad! Looks much more promising than the original page for sure. Still ran into some issues though. The linked "recipes" page contains tables that are far too wide for the width of the text block, forcing me to have to scroll left and right to see the rest of the columns. This makes it very painful to use. The Build Settings section, for example, has a table with overly-wide Name and Arguments column, such that the description is invisible. The table is so long that at first glance there's not even a scrollbar, leaving me wondering what's up with all that blank space in the page. The description column is also far too narrow for the amount of text it contains; this makes it needlessly cramped and the table longer than necessary. I realize this is a WIP, but still missing is a page that explains dub's operational model: what it does exactly, and how this relates to the basic config items. The "DUB Reference" tab AFAIK still links to that 1-page infodump I referred to in my other post (or at least some version of it), so the points I raised still apply to that page. Needs a lot more work before this is usable as the official reference. T -- Кто везде - тот нигде.
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
Like this? https://docs.webfreak.org/getting-started/first-steps/
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 08:39:33PM +, bachmeier via Digitalmars-d-announce
wrote:
> On Monday, 30 January 2023 at 04:40:48 UTC, Siarhei Siamashka wrote:
> > On Monday, 30 January 2023 at 02:44:50 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
> > > if you put your code in directories that match the modules you
> > > want to import, there's no need for Dub and the corresponding
> > > poorly documented configuration.
> >
> > What is poorly documented? Can you suggest some documentation
> > improvements?
>
> That ship has sailed. I've given up on Dub because those who promote
> it aren't interested in criticism. I'll just link to [this
> page](https://dub.pm/package-format-json) and if anyone thinks that's
> acceptable documentation for someone new to the language, there's no
> point having a conversation about it.
+1. What we need is a dub tutorial that leads you step-by-step how to
set up a project, what to put in the config file, explain what each
config item means (at least for the basic cases), and a FAQ explaining
commonly encountered issues and how to resolve them (or why a particular
use case is not possible).
Yes, all of this information is already there on the linked page. But a
newcomer (1) does not know 80% of what the items there even mean, (2)
does not understand how dub uses this information and what effects they
have, and (3) does not know which 5 of the 100 or so pieces of
information on the page are relevant to him, right at this moment. The
linked page may arguably be useful as a reference for someone who
already knows dub well, but it's completely obtuse to something who
doesn't know what dub is.
Even as a reference, the information isn't organized in an easily
navigable way. It's basically one giant infodump of the absolute bare
minimum information you need to remind yourself how to do a particular
task, but to someone who doesn't already know dub, it looks disorganized
and thrown together in a completely arbitrary, opaque order.
For example, the very first section talks about "global scope". What's a
"global scope" and why do I need it? Who knows, who cares, here are all
the settings that go into "global scope", you go figure it out yourself.
Immediately following is the section "sub packages". There is no
explanation of what's a "sub package" and why I might want one until the
second paragraph, which contains a single sentence that's supposed to
magically make me understand why I might want a sub package. I
basically have to read through the whole thing, digest it, connect the
dotted lines myself, before I can even have an answer to the most basic
of questions, "what is this and why should I care about it?". In the
meantime there's all kinds of random statements aimed at experienced
users, recommendations for best practices without any context or
explanation of why they're recommended (you're expected to figure it out
yourself).
The paragraph before the last code block in this section ("Sub
packages") is a typical example: "It is also possible to define the sub
packages within the root package file, but note that it is generally
discouraged to put the source code of multiple sub packages into the
same source folder." In one sentence the document has managed to (1)
introduce a possible configuration without any explanation of why one
might want to do that and (2) contradict itself by saying this is
generally discouraged. Then (3) the remainder of the paragraph goes on
to completely negate the first part of the first sentence, complete with
a code example of, I guess, what not to do? Why is all of this even
here?! If something is a discouraged practice, it sholdn't be smack in
my face right in the middle of the docs, occupying at least half of the
entire section(!). First document what I *should* do, then in a
footnote or a separate page explain what to avoid. And explain why I
might want a "sub package" instead of assuming I already know what it
is.
And on and on and on. The order of sections is, to put it mildly, hard
to follow. As an infodump, it's not suitable material to introduce
someone to dub. There's no explanation of common use cases, zero
hand-holding, and poor or missing motivation for anything. There's no
explanation of how to handle common use cases that one might encounter.
Maybe the explanation *is* in there somewhere, but I've no idea where it
is and have to essentially read through the entire thing to find it (and
hope I don't miss it).
As reference material, it's incomplete and could use better navigation.
And clearer explanation and definitions of what each config item does,
instead of 1-sentence descriptions that the reader has to collect then
somehow piece together in his head and magically guess the intent of
each feature. Also ALL corner cases must be covered thoroughly (if it's
to be a reference, it better be thorough!), as well as conceivable use
cases that someone might want but isn't supported. (And an explanation
of why it isn't supported would also be nice.)
T
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On 31/01/2023 9:39 AM, bachmeier wrote: On Monday, 30 January 2023 at 04:40:48 UTC, Siarhei Siamashka wrote: On Monday, 30 January 2023 at 02:44:50 UTC, bachmeier wrote: if you put your code in directories that match the modules you want to import, there's no need for Dub and the corresponding poorly documented configuration. What is poorly documented? Can you suggest some documentation improvements? That ship has sailed. I've given up on Dub because those who promote it aren't interested in criticism. I'll just link to [this page](https://dub.pm/package-format-json) and if anyone thinks that's acceptable documentation for someone new to the language, there's no point having a conversation about it. It isn't. WebFreak has an on-going project to replace it. https://forum.dlang.org/post/ojoiwbcftqsxbsviv...@forum.dlang.org https://docs.webfreak.org/
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Monday, 30 January 2023 at 04:40:48 UTC, Siarhei Siamashka wrote: On Monday, 30 January 2023 at 02:44:50 UTC, bachmeier wrote: if you put your code in directories that match the modules you want to import, there's no need for Dub and the corresponding poorly documented configuration. What is poorly documented? Can you suggest some documentation improvements? That ship has sailed. I've given up on Dub because those who promote it aren't interested in criticism. I'll just link to [this page](https://dub.pm/package-format-json) and if anyone thinks that's acceptable documentation for someone new to the language, there's no point having a conversation about it.
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Monday, 30 January 2023 at 13:51:14 UTC, Johann Lermer wrote: Where exactly does this happen to you and what window manager do you use? I use old Blackbox. But it happens always, you click the window and it pops up as if the window is at (0, 0) instead of where it actually is. Probably due to the configure notify message not including location data (which window managers don't have to send)
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Thursday, 26 January 2023 at 14:31:55 UTC, Adam D Ruppe wrote: I did see the menus popped up in the wrong place though sorry to bother you again. But I can't reproduce this error, here the menus are always on the spot. Where exactly does this happen to you and what window manager do you use?
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Monday, 30 January 2023 at 02:44:50 UTC, bachmeier wrote: if you put your code in directories that match the modules you want to import, there's no need for Dub and the corresponding poorly documented configuration. What is poorly documented? Can you suggest some documentation improvements?
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Sunday, 29 January 2023 at 15:01:40 UTC, Adam D Ruppe wrote: dub fights D compilers. This is why it forces me to write 600 lines of ugly configuration file for something that just works in dmd. I don't want to get sucked into another discussion of the pros and cons of Dub, but yeah, if you put your code in directories that match the modules you want to import, there's no need for Dub and the corresponding poorly documented configuration.
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Sunday, 29 January 2023 at 17:14:40 UTC, Johann Lermer wrote: right - but isn't one of make's features, that it compiles code only when the source changes? When you just compile the whole thing at once, I would expect that you get longer times than when you change just one source file and compile just that. When your whole rebuild is fast enough, it doesn't really matter anymore. Well, that's the theory. It seems, that in the meantime everything depends on everything and so even small changes in the code lead to a recompiling of quite a few files and now every time even a small change takes even longer to recompile than your approach. Yeah, for an incremental rebuild to work well, you need to have pretty strict dependency discipline so chances actually can be isolated, and in D as well, you need to make sure your modules don't do much work just by being imported (just being referenced can trigger some compile time functions, for example, and if you compile things separately that depend on this, it gets done multiple times instead of just once like in the all-at-once build). This can be done, but it takes attention and often just isn't worth the hassle compared to the simple build, especially when the simple build does a decent job out of the box. Maybe it's just better to remove the whole make stuff - but it seemed to be a good idea at the time... I often make makefiles just cuz im used to typing `make`... but the contents are often: all: dmd -i main.d and i let the compiler do its thing.
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Sunday, 29 January 2023 at 15:01:40 UTC, Adam D Ruppe wrote: Fully operational executable created in under 3 seconds. right - but isn't one of make's features, that it compiles code only when the source changes? When you just compile the whole thing at once, I would expect that you get longer times than when you change just one source file and compile just that. Well, that's the theory. It seems, that in the meantime everything depends on everything and so even small changes in the code lead to a recompiling of quite a few files and now every time even a small change takes even longer to recompile than your approach. Maybe it's just better to remove the whole make stuff - but it seemed to be a good idea at the time...
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Sunday, 29 January 2023 at 13:55:41 UTC, Richard (Rikki) Andrew Cattermole wrote: You're fundamentally doing something that D compilers are not designed to handle. The problem is with -I flag. Being able to set a directory to look modules up in. I admit that's something I never fully understood. In the end I just fiddled around with make until I made it compiling...
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Sunday, 29 January 2023 at 13:55:41 UTC, Richard (Rikki) Andrew Cattermole wrote: dub isn't the issue, people who fight it like this, fight the D compilers and end up having issues. dub fights D compilers. This is why it forces me to write 600 lines of ugly configuration file for something that just works in dmd. That said, the directory layout here is indeed not optimal, and the makefile build takes *forever* which is disturbing. This program should probably build in < 3 seconds, not the... minute or two it took running make here. Proof: $ time dmd -i wildcad.d -I../../widgets/lib/source/ -I../../widgets/include -version=X11 -L-lX11 -L-lcups -L-lfontconfig -L-lcairo real0m2.703s Fully operational executable created in under 3 seconds.
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
dub isn't the issue, people who fight it like this, fight the D compilers and end up having issues. You're fundamentally doing something that D compilers are not designed to handle. The problem is with -I flag. Being able to set a directory to look modules up in. Problem is it needs to match the packages to directories. I.e. wildwidgets/lib/source/wcw/clipboard.d Not: wildwidgets/lib/source/clipboard.d Also note: you should not use symlinks with VCS, there are cross-platform problems with it.
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Thursday, 26 January 2023 at 14:48:17 UTC, Ferhat Kurtulmuş wrote: I will give it a try, but I wish it would use dub as a build system. Well, I tried dub and wasn't convinced - maybe due to a lack of documentation but I couldn't get it running the way I wanted (that is, with my directory structure and having wildwidgets as a subproject). So I decided, that I'll stick with what I know and that is good old make ;-) But maybe someday someone can do something about it?
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Wednesday, 25 January 2023 at 14:36:54 UTC, Johann Lermer wrote: Hi, I'd like to announce a little project of mine that started some years ago as a C++ application and which I finally managed to port to D. It's called WildCAD and it's a simple 2D drawing program (you know - lines, circles and so on). It uses a command line interface inspired by AutoCAD and features a very immature DXF im- and export. [...] Very very sweet. Works like a charm. It is the simple things that bring joy and happiness. Great work!
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Thursday, 26 January 2023 at 13:23:46 UTC, Dadoum wrote: Just a small tip: add screenshots in your readmes. Good idea. I'll do that.
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Thursday, 26 January 2023 at 14:31:55 UTC, Adam D Ruppe wrote: I briefly played around with it, not bad at all. I did see the menus popped up in the wrong place though, something to note is that ConfigureNotify is a bit complicated in how it works. Let me copy/paste a comment from my simpledisplay.d: True, although here it works. But X11 is a beast and sometimes I loose the fight. You can also request the window position with XTranslateCoordinates: I'll try that, thanks. And since some of these X things are a bit obscure no one ever spoke a truer word :-))
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Wednesday, 25 January 2023 at 14:36:54 UTC, Johann Lermer wrote: Hi, I'd like to announce a little project of mine that started some years ago as a C++ application and which I finally managed to port to D. It's called WildCAD and it's a simple 2D drawing program (you know - lines, circles and so on). It uses a command line interface inspired by AutoCAD and features a very immature DXF im- and export. The application uses a DIY widget set (which comes as a sub project) called WildWidgets. Both can be found at https://gitlab.com/elvin.eu/wildcad.git and https://gitlab.com/elvin.eu/wildwidgets.git Currently both are restricted to DMD and Linux/X11 only. Sorry for that. On the plus side just very limited dependencies are needed - mostly X11, Cairo and Cups. It's still very rough and using it can be a bit of a challenge. Any feedback or help is appreciated ;-) this reminded me of KediCAD[1]. The author used the Gambas programming language. A long time ago, I chatted with the author, and he was thinking of an alternative language for development. I knew nothing about d at that time. I have just noticed that the author closed the source, or I failed to find it. I think D has great potential for creating CAD software. I will give it a try, but I wish it would use dub as a build system. 1: https://sourceforge.net/projects/parduscad/
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
I briefly played around with it, not bad at all. I did see the
menus popped up in the wrong place though, something to note is
that ConfigureNotify is a bit complicated in how it works. Let me
copy/paste a comment from my simpledisplay.d:
/+
The ICCCM says window managers must send a synthetic
event when the window
is moved but NOT when it is resized. In the resize case,
an event is sent
with position (0, 0) which can be wrong and break the dpi
calculations.
So we only consider the synthetic events from the WM and
otherwise
need to wait for some other event to get the position
which... sucks.
+/
if(event.send_event) {
win.screenPositionKnown = true;
win.screenPositionX = event.x;
win.screenPositionY = event.y;
}
You can also request the window position with
XTranslateCoordinates:
int x, y;
Window dummyw;
XTranslateCoordinates(dpy, window.nativeHandle, RootWindow(dpy,
DefaultScreen(dpy)), x, y, , , );
Which is what I do when it is time to pop up a menu.
Your thing works ok when maximized tho, it is kinda nice how you
got the rest working.
But as a fellow DIY widgetset author it is always fun to compare
and contrast :)
And since some of these X things are a bit obscure it helps to
steal tips from each other lol
Re: WildCAD - a simple 2D drawing application
On Wednesday, 25 January 2023 at 14:36:54 UTC, Johann Lermer wrote: Hi, I'd like to announce a little project of mine that started some years ago as a C++ application and which I finally managed to port to D. It's called WildCAD and it's a simple 2D drawing program (you know - lines, circles and so on). It uses a command line interface inspired by AutoCAD and features a very immature DXF im- and export. The application uses a DIY widget set (which comes as a sub project) called WildWidgets. Both can be found at https://gitlab.com/elvin.eu/wildcad.git and https://gitlab.com/elvin.eu/wildwidgets.git Currently both are restricted to DMD and Linux/X11 only. Sorry for that. On the plus side just very limited dependencies are needed - mostly X11, Cairo and Cups. It's still very rough and using it can be a bit of a challenge. Any feedback or help is appreciated ;-) Hello, cool work. Just a small tip: add screenshots in your readmes. It will make people more interested because when there are none, usually people will not take the time to fetch the project to check it out.
