Re: [tdf-discuss] Two simple writer annoyances

[klaus-jürgen weghorn ol]

Hi Bernhard,
Am 29.04.2011 08:28, schrieb Krabina Bernhard:

Hi,

I think there are two annoyances in writer that should not be that hard to fix. 
I hope someone can fix these:

1. Why can't writer have image descriptions ABOVE the image as well? It can do 
it with tables, but with images, image captions have to be below the image...


In the fast I don't find an issue on https://bugs.freedesktop.org/ .
Maybe you can write one.


2. Why can't writer have the possibility to rotate an image...


It is issue 34423
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34423


thanx and keep up the good work!

regards,
Berhard





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[tdf-discuss] Two simple writer annoyances

[Krabina Bernhard]

Hi,

I think there are two annoyances in writer that should not be that hard to fix. 
I hope someone can fix these:

1. Why can't writer have image descriptions ABOVE the image as well? It can do 
it with tables, but with images, image captions have to be below the image...

2. Why can't writer have the possibility to rotate an image...

thanx and keep up the good work!

regards,
Berhard


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Question about proposing the creation of a new format

[Ben McGinnes]

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On 28/04/11 9:28 PM, Christophe Strobbe wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:49:11 +1000, Ben McGinnes 
> wrote:
>>
>> I hadn't even heard of DAISY, but it looks very cool so thanks for
>> pointing me at it.  I just installed the extension and will have a
>> little play with it at some nebulous point in the future.
> 
> Great :-) (I am involved in the development of odt2daisy.)

Cool.  Since then I've tried it on a couple of things and it is pretty
nifty.  Although I should really poke around for some decent DAISY
software readers/players to see (and hear) how others would experience
any given thing.

> Since this thread mentions both ePub and DAISY I would like to point
> out that the IDPF (in charge of ePub) and the DAISY Consortium are
> working on a stronger convergence between the two formats.

That sounds good.

> (It is no coincidence that two of the editors of the ePub spec at
>  represent the
> DAISY Consortium).

An excellent document, I probably won't delve too much into the spec,
but it is excellent to see what it will be able to do.

> This means that ePub 3 will contain more features to support
> accessibility for people with disabilities than in previous
> versions.  (DAISY was designed for persons with reading impairments
> from the outset.)

This is what caught my attention with DAISY and why I'm now looking
forward to ePub 3.  It's a great example of where ebooks can level the
field for everyone.

I remember when I was a kid and already reading voraciously that my
Nan did too.  Unfortunately her eyesight was very bad, so the only
books she could read were the large print books available at the local
library and she couldn't read everything she wanted to.  This always
struck me as most unfair.  We finally have the technology to render
this situation a thing of the past and we should do so.

> But it also means that whatever content you put into an ePub doc
> will need features to make that type of content accessible. For many
> types of content (images, video, audio) this involves the use of
> text alternatives. Making math and science accessible is still a
> challenge, in spite of many years of research. 3D was also mentioned
> in this thread - I don't know how that would be made accessible.

Fortunately for me my interest is essentially text only (regardless of
whether it is fiction or non-fiction).  So I don't have to worry so
much about any of these, but it is definitely something to bear in
mind and work on.

>> When it comes to books, PDF is only really useful for type-setting
>> a print book (e.g. the way Lulu uses them for preparing print on
>> demand books).
> 
> I think tagged PDF with reflow options in PDF readers (see one of my
> previous mails) changed that a bit. Adobe Reader even has a Read Out
> Loud function (but you will need to get used to synthetic speech).

Since I've used PDF for the odd report (the last one was an
anti-censorship thing), that's something I'll have to keep in mind for
next time.  Also for the political stuff.

>> It takes a little time to prepare all the relevant formats, but
>> compared to the process of writing, proofing and editing, not
>> really all that much.
> 
> If you want a decent DAISY book, you will need (at the very least)
> to make sure that you use the correct styles for headings (to enable
> navigation) and that you mark the language(s) in the content
> correctly.

Appropriate use of styles and headings was already looking like it
would be necessary for ePub and other things anyway.  I take it with
regards to the language marking you're referring to specifying the
language for a document or paragraph (rather than just the default
language of LibreOffice), right?

Is there a guide somewhere of the right document/page/paragraph
attributes needed to generate decent DAISY documents?


Regards,
Ben

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again

[Isaac Hummel]

On 04/18/2011 03:11 PM, RGB ES wrote:

Well, even if I'd said that the ancient forums vs mailing lists war
was not the point but *what people use*, the forums vs. mailing lists
useless fight came again...
At first I was tempted to refer how the English forums have near 200
new message each day and talk about the madness it would be to receive
near 200 mails each day. I was tempted to talk about how I'm giving
on-line support to users since a long time (I started using computers
more than 25 years ago) and justify the fact that I know quite well
the advantages and disadvantages of every possible communication
system in use for the last 20 years... Many things...
But I'm giving up.
Have a nice day!
And don't worry to answer me, I'm unsubscribing from the mailing list.

I do agree that, whatever their limitations, forums are the discussion 
platform of the masses and LibreOffice needs to form a community that 
includes the non-geek populace if it is to become the premier version of 
OpenOffice/Star Office. However, in this day and age 200 mails a day is 
hardly madness. Not when all major free email accounts have gigabytes of 
storage and the ability to filter mailing lists into their own 
label/folder, and when Thunderbird is able to handle a folder of 15000+ 
messages without breaking a sweat even on an antiquated machine like 
mine (Pentium 4 with 640 megs of ram).


--
Isaac Hummel
is...@daedaleus.com
http://daedaleus.isaachummel.com


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question

[Carl Symons]

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Augustine Souza  wrote:
> Microsoft must be smiling.
>

Yeah, it must be amusing for them to see a community of people working
out their own problems. If they'd buy our crap, they wouldn't have to
worry about such things as forums.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question

[Carl Symons]

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:
> Hi Carl
>
> Le 28/04/11 11:22 AM, Carl Symons a écrit :
>>>
>>> "You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run
>>> by
>>> LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are
>>> more
>>> mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the
>>> LibreOffice
>>> project. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board at this
>>> time.
>>> An official forums board is still under consideration."
>>>
>>> Does this sound more informative?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>
>> Yes, now only one issue... "more mature" is comparative, but there is
>> no comparison present. (Well, one is implied.) I'd change this
>> sentence to:
>> These forums are mature and heavily trafficked. They offer quality
>> support for LibreOffice, and can be found by searching online.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>
> So this newer version:
>
> "You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by
> LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are mature
> and heavily trafficked. They offer quality support to LibreOffice and can be
> found by searching online. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums
> board at this time. An official forums board is still under consideration."
>
> I am not quite sure what is the significance of the "and can be found by
> searching online". Remember, the reader is already on the LibreOffice
> website page "getting help" page.[1] I am not sure if it needs this part of
> the sentence as it is ambiguous.
>
> Cheers
>
> Marc
>

I'm fine if it's not there. Overly obsessive, but I'll work on getting
over it B^)

Carl

> [1] http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question

[Friedrich Strohmaier]

Hi Augustine, *,

Augustine Souza schrieb:

>Microsoft must be smiling.

Everyone more smiling in this world is a good one so:
Fine, if we are able to make even Microsoft happy..

.. and we even stay happy ourselves if not successful with this ;o)).


Gruß/regards
-- 
Friedrich
Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/
LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images



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[tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question

[Marc Paré]

Le 28/04/11 12:34 PM, Augustine Souza a écrit :

Microsoft must be smiling.



???


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[tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question

[Marc Paré]

Hi Carl

Le 28/04/11 11:22 AM, Carl Symons a écrit :


"You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by
LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more
mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice
project. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board at this time.
An official forums board is still under consideration."

Does this sound more informative?

Cheers

Marc



Yes, now only one issue... "more mature" is comparative, but there is
no comparison present. (Well, one is implied.) I'd change this
sentence to:
These forums are mature and heavily trafficked. They offer quality
support for LibreOffice, and can be found by searching online.

Carl



So this newer version:

"You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run 
by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are 
mature and heavily trafficked. They offer quality support to LibreOffice 
and can be found by searching online. LibreOffice does not offer an 
official forums board at this time. An official forums board is still 
under consideration."


I am not quite sure what is the significance of the "and can be found by 
searching online". Remember, the reader is already on the LibreOffice 
website page "getting help" page.[1] I am not sure if it needs this part 
of the sentence as it is ambiguous.


Cheers

Marc

[1] http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question

[Augustine Souza]

Microsoft must be smiling.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question

[Carl Symons]

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:
> Le 28/04/11 10:47 AM, Carl Symons a écrit :
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 28/04/11 09:04 AM, Carl Symons a écrit :

 On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs
     wrote:
>
> Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for
> OpenOffice.org ?
>
> The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/
> has
> two
> links to OOo forums:
> - http://www.oooforum.org/
> - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/
>
> Harold Fuchs
> London, England
>


 Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as
 LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other.

 There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer
 millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature
 and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums.

>>>
>>> As the "forums" discussions are/have been/will be controversial, could we
>>> add a more informative comment on the web page/forums section. Something
>>> such Carl has just mentioned. Perhaps something like:
>>>
>>> "You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run
>>> by
>>> LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are
>>> more
>>> mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the
>>> LibreOffice
>>> project. LibreOffice does not offer a native forums board at this time. A
>>> native forums board is still under consideration."
>>>
>>
>> I agree Marc.
>>
>>> I'm not sure that the average user will get the meaning of "native
>>
>> forums board". Maybe "official forum" or "forum sponsored by
>> LibreOffice itself".
>>
>> "Still under consideration" may be technically accurate. I think that
>> it would be understandable and land better with users to say something
>> like "implementation details are still being discussed by the LibO
>> community".
>>
>
> I am just keeping out of any comment on the state of forums right now. It is
> just too explosive an issue.
>
> So, incorporating your suggestions, the text would read:
>
> "You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by
> LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more
> mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice
> project. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board at this time.
> An official forums board is still under consideration."
>
> Does this sound more informative?
>
> Cheers
>
> Marc
>

Yes, now only one issue... "more mature" is comparative, but there is
no comparison present. (Well, one is implied.) I'd change this
sentence to:
These forums are mature and heavily trafficked. They offer quality
support for LibreOffice, and can be found by searching online.

Carl

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[tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question

[Marc Paré]

Le 28/04/11 10:47 AM, Carl Symons a écrit :

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:

Le 28/04/11 09:04 AM, Carl Symons a écrit :


On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs
wrote:


Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for
OpenOffice.org ?

The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has
two
links to OOo forums:
- http://www.oooforum.org/
- http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/

Harold Fuchs
London, England




Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as
LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other.

There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer
millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature
and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums.



As the "forums" discussions are/have been/will be controversial, could we
add a more informative comment on the web page/forums section. Something
such Carl has just mentioned. Perhaps something like:

"You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by
LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more
mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice
project. LibreOffice does not offer a native forums board at this time. A
native forums board is still under consideration."



I agree Marc.


I'm not sure that the average user will get the meaning of "native

forums board". Maybe "official forum" or "forum sponsored by
LibreOffice itself".

"Still under consideration" may be technically accurate. I think that
it would be understandable and land better with users to say something
like "implementation details are still being discussed by the LibO
community".



I am just keeping out of any comment on the state of forums right now. 
It is just too explosive an issue.


So, incorporating your suggestions, the text would read:

"You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run 
by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are 
more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the 
LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board 
at this time. An official forums board is still under consideration."


Does this sound more informative?

Cheers

Marc


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question

[Carl Symons]

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:
> Le 28/04/11 09:04 AM, Carl Symons a écrit :
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs
>>   wrote:
>>>
>>> Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for
>>> OpenOffice.org ?
>>>
>>> The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has
>>> two
>>> links to OOo forums:
>>> - http://www.oooforum.org/
>>> - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/
>>>
>>> Harold Fuchs
>>> London, England
>>>
>>
>>
>> Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as
>> LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other.
>>
>> There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer
>> millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature
>> and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums.
>>
>
> As the "forums" discussions are/have been/will be controversial, could we
> add a more informative comment on the web page/forums section. Something
> such Carl has just mentioned. Perhaps something like:
>
> "You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by
> LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more
> mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice
> project. LibreOffice does not offer a native forums board at this time. A
> native forums board is still under consideration."
>

I agree Marc.

I can't see into the future, but it is easy to imagine that there will
be an active LibreOffice forum sometime. Easy to imagine that The
Document Foundation would host it, sans ads. And that it will be the
GoTo LibO forum. This will be the case increasingly as OpenOffice
deteriorates (easy to imagine that too, IMO).

I'm not sure that the average user will get the meaning of "native
forums board". Maybe "official forum" or "forum sponsored by
LibreOffice itself".

"Still under consideration" may be technically accurate. I think that
it would be understandable and land better with users to say something
like "implementation details are still being discussed by the LibO
community".

I don't want to offend anyone's delicate sensibilities, but the forum
I use for LibO questions is Google Search. Search for "openoffice
forums" or "libreoffice forums", get more than a million results.
Thus, I think that it would be effective to add something to Marc's
write-up suggesting online search for solutions using either
LibreOffice or OpenOffice as a qualifier.

Carl

> This way, the user, seeking help on this page, will be informed of the
> outside links, informed of their solid performance in helping LO users,
> informed that there is no native forums at this point and informed that a
> forums board is still under consideration.
>
> Although quite verbose, it would inform users of the situation at this point
> and slow down the constant new threads about creating a native forums board.
>
> It is very clear that the forums topic is a recurring topic and that it will
> most likely never disappear until a native forums board is created OR until
> one/more of the external board adopt a name change that is more inclusive of
> the LibreOffice name.
>
> Cheers
>
> Marc
>
>
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[tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question

[Marc Paré]

Le 28/04/11 09:04 AM, Carl Symons a écrit :

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs
  wrote:

Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for
OpenOffice.org ?

The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two
links to OOo forums:
- http://www.oooforum.org/
- http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/

Harold Fuchs
London, England




Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as
LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other.

There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer
millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature
and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums.



As the "forums" discussions are/have been/will be controversial, could 
we add a more informative comment on the web page/forums section. 
Something such Carl has just mentioned. Perhaps something like:


"You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run 
by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are 
more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the 
LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer a native forums board at 
this time. A native forums board is still under consideration."


This way, the user, seeking help on this page, will be informed of the 
outside links, informed of their solid performance in helping LO users, 
informed that there is no native forums at this point and informed that 
a forums board is still under consideration.


Although quite verbose, it would inform users of the situation at this 
point and slow down the constant new threads about creating a native 
forums board.


It is very clear that the forums topic is a recurring topic and that it 
will most likely never disappear until a native forums board is created 
OR until one/more of the external board adopt a name change that is more 
inclusive of the LibreOffice name.


Cheers

Marc


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums - A Different Question

[Carl Symons]

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs
 wrote:
> Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for
> OpenOffice.org ?
>
> The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two
> links to OOo forums:
> - http://www.oooforum.org/
> - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/
>
> Harold Fuchs
> London, England
>


Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as
LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other.

There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer
millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature
and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Question about proposing the creation of a new format

[Christophe Strobbe]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:49:11 +1000, Ben McGinnes 
wrote:
> On 25/04/11 8:53 PM, Christian Lohmaier wrote:
>> 
>> There is also http://odt2daisy.sourceforge.net/ - in case your reader
>> supports the daisy format.
> 
> I hadn't even heard of DAISY, but it looks very cool so thanks for
> pointing me at it.  I just installed the extension and will have a
> little play with it at some nebulous point in the future.

Great :-) (I am involved in the development of odt2daisy.)

Since this thread mentions both ePub and DAISY I would like to point out
that the IDPF (in charge of ePub) and the DAISY Consortium are working on a
stronger convergence between the two formats. (It is no coincidence that
two of the editors of the ePub spec at
 represent the DAISY
Consortium). This means that ePub 3 will contain more features to support
accessibility for people with disabilities than in previous versions.
(DAISY was designed for persons with reading impairments from the outset.)
But it also means that whatever content you put into an ePub doc will need
features to make that type of content accessible. For many types of content
(images, video, audio) this involves the use of text alternatives. Making
math and science accessible is still a challenge, in spite of many years of
research. 3D was also mentioned in this thread - I don't know how that
would be made accessible.


> 
>> Other than that: what would be a special requirement for eReaders?
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else, but as long as an eReader can display
> content as it would in a normal book then it's good enough.  If that
> book is a novel, then it will usually be pretty easy (e.g. text,
> italics, bold, small capitals, subscript, superscript and maybe
> footnotes).  If that book is a text book (e.g. a science book) with
> charts, formula, pictures, etc.) then more may be required.
> 
>> I know PDF is suboptimal because it needs to scale to the display
>> screen.
> 
> When it comes to books, PDF is only really useful for type-setting a
> print book (e.g. the way Lulu uses them for preparing print on demand
> books).

I think tagged PDF with reflow options in PDF readers (see one of my
previous mails) changed that a bit. Adobe Reader even has a Read Out Loud
function (but you will need to get used to synthetic speech).


> 
>> plain text might be boring to read (headings, etc hard to spot, lack
>> of structural information for navigation), rtf might not be
>> supported by the reader...
> 
> Well, I wouldn't opt for either of those formats.
> 
>> So there probably is no one-size-fits all solution. And it depends
>> on what the purpose is: personal use (i.e. conversion of random
>> documents) or dedicated publishing (aim is to write a book and
>> publish it) and thus how many restrictions you can impose on the
>> structure/formatting of the document.
> 
> Exactly.  At this stage most ebook publishers, including
> self-publishers, usually need at least two or three formats for each
> publication and often more.  Until your post I was considering PDF,
> ePub, Kindle (.mobi) and maybe one or two others (.lit and whatever
> Sony uses).  Now you can add DAISY to the list too.
> 
> It takes a little time to prepare all the relevant formats, but
> compared to the process of writing, proofing and editing, not really
> all that much.

If you want a decent DAISY book, you will need (at the very least) to make
sure that you use the correct styles for headings (to enable navigation)
and that you mark the language(s) in the content correctly.

Best regards,

Christophe

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Question about proposing the creation of a new format

[Christophe Strobbe]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:19:50 +0200, CaStarCo  wrote:
> There is a draft of the EPUB3 specification (
> http://idpf.org/news/epub-3-specification-public-draft-released ), I
think
> that this spec has many problems: 

Since this is a draft specification: has anyone tried sending comments?
(Unfortunately, I don't see a real *invitation* for comments, which is
unlike the process used for ODF, W3C specs, ...).

Best regards,

Christophe

> the capability of scripting (wich is
> potentially harmful), the low emphasis on semantic data (they use
metadata,
> but specially related to the book structure, not with its content), to
> forget the "3d models" type of media (epub3 "only" supports images,
video
> and sound, but not 3d models wich the user could explore), and the
absence
> of "profiles" (they talk about fallbacks, but only for scripting, not
for
> media content). I suppose there are good reasons to choose that spec and
> not
> an extended one... but at that moment, I can imagine which reasons are.
> 
> I think that would be interesting to program an ebook editor, to promote
> the
> EPUB use over other privative formats. Many lacks of the EPUB format can
be
> covered with scripting, but hidding the scripting to the user, doing it
> automaticly behind the scene.
> 
> If there are interested people, then I'm interested on helping working
on
> webkit integration.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> 2011/4/25 Italo Vignoli 
> 
>> On 04/25/2011 11:11 AM, drew wrote:
>>
>>  However, should LibreOffice have support for producing documents
>>> targeted to eReaders? I don't know maybe, probably.
>>>
>>
>> I am not an expert on ebooks formats, but I know there are a lot of
>> efforts
>> around the ePub format to become a standard. Unfortunately, there are
too
>> many commercial interests around ebooks today for the development of a
>> real
>> independent standard.
>>
>> Anyway, should such a standard be defined and accepted, I would
>> personally
>> be in favour of supporting it, as documents are becoming more pervasive
>> than
>> in the past and in the future will be accessed through a multitude of
>> devices (many of them being mobile).
>>
>> Best regards, Italo
>>
>>
>> --
>> Italo Vignoli
>> italo.vign...@gmail.com
>> mobile +39.348.5653829
>> VoIP +39.02.320621813
>> skype italovignoli

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BELGIUM
tel: +32 16 32 85 51 
www.docarch.be
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Question about proposing the creation of a new format

[Christophe Strobbe]

Hi,

On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 12:53:00 +0200, Christian Lohmaier
 wrote:
> Hi Ben, *,
> 
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Ben McGinnes 
wrote:
>> On 25/04/11 7:11 PM, drew wrote:
>>>
>>> As far as LibreOffice being a display client for ebooks, I would
>>> agree it is not in scope.
>>>
>>> However, should LibreOffice have support for producing documents
>>> targeted to eReaders? I don't know maybe, probably.
>>
>> The writer2epub extension does a reasonably good job of that already,
>> although I'd follow it up with editing in Sigil and probably final
>> tweaking in Calibre.
> 
> There is also http://odt2daisy.sourceforge.net/ - in case your reader
> supports the daisy format.
> 
> Other than that: what would be a special requirement for eReaders? I
> know PDF is suboptimal because it needs to scale to the display
> screen. (...)

I don't know what software is used on eReaders, but Adobe Reader on the
desktop supports reflow when you zoom in: press Crtl+4 (or go to View ->
Zoom -> Reflow in the menus). To zoom in, simply press Crtl++ (like in many
current browsers). Note that this requires "tagged PDF". LibreOffice can
output tagged PDF when you check that option in the PDF Options dialog that
is displayed when you choose "Export as PDF...". 
Adobe Reader has more accessibility options under Edit > Preferences >
Accessibility; for example: "Always use Zoom Setting", and "Replace
Document Colors" (which allows users to override the colours defined by the
author). 
So when you use properly tagged PDF, is is probably not the format itself
that is at fault but the reader (=software).

Best regards,

Christophe

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BELGIUM
tel: +32 16 32 85 51 
www.docarch.be
Twitter: @RabelaisA11y

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Question about proposing the creation of a new format

[Christophe Strobbe]

Hi,

On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:42:27 +1000, Ben McGinnes 
wrote:
> On 25/04/11 7:11 PM, drew wrote:
>> 
>> As far as LibreOffice being a display client for ebooks, I would
>> agree it is not in scope.
>> 
>> However, should LibreOffice have support for producing documents
>> targeted to eReaders? I don't know maybe, probably.
> 
> The writer2epub extension does a reasonably good job of that already,
> although I'd follow it up with editing in Sigil and probably final
> tweaking in Calibre.

There is also a (commercial) ODFToEPub extension:
,
. 

Best regards,

Christophe


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K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD
Research Group on Document Architectures
Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442
B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee
BELGIUM
tel: +32 16 32 85 51 
www.docarch.be
Twitter: @RabelaisA11y

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Question about proposing the creation of a new format

[Ian Lynch]

On 27 April 2011 21:42, Mark Preston  wrote:

> Dear good gods alive no! :eave the HTML to proper HTML IDE tools like
> Eclipse and don't try to be everything in one package.
>

Hm, you mean like don't bother with OOo/LO because there are plenty of text
editors, separate graphics editors and spreadsheets around. (Certainly
Inkscape makes Draw largely unnecessary) Don't bother with TinyMCE/CKEditor
because there is Dreamweaver and FrontPage (or vice versa).

I wasn't actually suggesting any specific action so no need to jump to
conclusions. All I'm saying is that looking at the way things are going, LO
will either change or become irrelevant. How it would change is something
that needs wider strategic thought but I don't see much evidence of this.
OTOH it could all be happening behind the scenes.

As I said, I'm sure Bill Gates said leave those toy phones to Nokia, RIM and
Apple. Google seem to have been smarter. As mobile and web technologies take
over I can see much harder times ahead for anyone dependent on local
dependencies.

On 26/04/2011 22:48, e-letter wrote:
>> I think this is a very interesting issue. We are moving from the dominant
>> technologies that were designed to put information on paper to the
dominant
>> need of presenting information on screens. With the revolution in digital
>> readers this is only going to increase and then what relevance has
document
>> formats that are primarily designed to target hard copy output? If odf
does
>> not adapt it will become obsolete.
>>
>
> Seems to suggest that LO should become some sort of html (or any other
> electronic format) editor?
>
>> I am constantly irritated by having to download pdfs, .docs and so on
when
>> all I want to do is view the information without cluttering up my
download
>
> May I suggest to use the 'load url' bar to read documents directly on
> the web? As for pdf documents, evince can open directly from the url
> when activated via the command terminal
>

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>


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[tdf-discuss] Forums - A Different Question

[Harold Fuchs]

Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for 
OpenOffice.org ?


The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two 
links to OOo forums:

- http://www.oooforum.org/
- http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/

Harold Fuchs
London, England 




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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again

[Simos Xenitellis]

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 7:28 AM,   wrote:
>>>How about the issue that I mentioned earlier?
>>>
>>>At http://www.sitedossier.com/ip/174.121.218.38 it
>>>shows that there are 858 websites hosted at the
>>>same dedicated server as LibreOfficeForum.org.
>
> Hi again,
>
> Yes, I am using a shared hosting platform. I never claimed otherwise. I
> have used DownTownHost shared hosting for several years now, and I have
> been extremely satisfied with the speed and reliability. It's definitely
> good enough for a newly starting low-traffic forum, and if traffic were to
> ever go through the roof I could always upgrade to a dedicated server. I
> have no idea how they have their server farm set up or how many sites are
> running behind that public IP, etc. But I assume that you realize that the
> other sites you linked to are NOT mine? I administer precisely one other
> site on this server related to a hobby, no more, no less. Sorry if I sound
> terse or offended. I'm not. But I do want to set the facts straight.
>

I got the impression from your initial post (you mentioned
that «Good hosting is not cheap») that you had a dedicated server,
and I assumed you were the owner of this shared hosting business.

It is good that this issue is now clear. It helps to discuss things first
when taking initiatives.

Simos

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Re: [tdf-discuss] numbering in contents but not document

[todd rme]

2011/4/28 Irmhild Rogalla :
> Todd,
>
> Am 27.04.2011 19:33, schrieb todd rme:
>> Hi, is there a way to have a heading that is numbered in the table of
>> contents but is not numbered in the document?  So, for instance, the
>> Table of Contents shows "1. Introduction", but the body of the
>> document shows just "Introduction"?
>
> it's better to ask such questions at the users-list (see
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/); there you'll get help.
> This discuss list is more for general discussions about LibO.
>
> regards
>        Irmhild

Thanks, I meant to do so but sent it here by accident.  By the time I
realized it it was too late to undo it.  I already sent the message to
the other mailing list.

-Todd

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