Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

[Ian Lynch]

On 3 October 2011 18:02, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> My apologies for the heavy-duty cross-posting.  It might be good to pick a 
> single public list and a subject header and converge there.
>
> Q: WHERE IS THE PROPOSAL?
>
> This started as a simple e-mail list question by Jaime R. Garza on the 
> [tdf-discuss] list:
> .
>
> There is no proposal in the sense of some technical submission to adapt ODF 
> for this purpose.  You are pretty > much seeing the extent of the discussion 
> so far.  The proposal is a paragraph and concept being echoed
> around these lists now.

Sorry, when I said proposal I meant it in a simple idea for discussion
sense rather than a formal proposal as in a project proposal requiring
lazy consensus or a vote. At this stage more a "is this worth
discussing?" (So that it might get refined to a specific proposal of
the type that gets voted on). Sorry for the confusion.
-- 
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

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Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
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RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting...

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Concerning any accessibility issues around e-mail conversations, 
Cor reports that an accessibility expert says the main requirement 
is that the text be in ASCII.

Cor, does that mean Unicode (i.e., UTF-8) is undesirable?  Or was 
the response not that technical?

 - Dennis E. Hamilton
   tools for document interoperability,  
   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid


-Original Message-
From: Cor Nouws [mailto:oo...@nouenoff.nl] 

Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 13:15
To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting...

[ ... ]

I just checked with Peter op 't Hof, Dutch accessibility expert.
He says there is no accessibility problem with mail handling. Most 
important is that it's ascii.
(I did not ask if the people that rely on special handling for 
accessibility, have to do some extra tolling or settings. But I imagine 
the people are informed well enough themselves.)

So accessibility can't be considered as a reason for different mail 
handling.
[ ... ]


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Re: [tdf-discuss] OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved

[Mark Preston]

Well, I worked with the W3C on doing the initial work on RDF but not
done anything for a while. If I can remember the login details I can
try to mention it.

On 03/10/2011 09:45, Jaime R. Garza wrote:
> It would be great if connected people could help to introduce this idea. I
> hope it doesn't stay just as an idea! I'll be willing to help in the
> discussions and organization, but I don't have the contacts. Anyone with
> contacts willing to help?
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 09:44, Ian Lynch  wrote:
> 
>> On 2 October 2011 23:41, Jaime R. Garza  wrote:
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> Why isn't ODF added as an extension of HTML5?
>>
>> That is a very good idea.
>>
>>> This would define ODF as the defacto Web Standard for Files!
>>>
>>> An ideas who could try to pursue such an agreement?
>>
>> Presumably get OASIS, TDF and AOO representatives to talk to W3C. Get
>> a strategy agreed with say Mozilla and Google for good browser support
>> for rendering and editing ODF documents. (assuming MS will not play
>> ball but you never know). Editing could be a subset to start with eg
>> limited to editing text.
>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> Jaime
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 03:17, Dennis E. Hamilton <
>> dennis.hamil...@acm.org>wrote:
>>>
 The OASIS ODF 1.2 Committee Specification 01 has been successfully
>> advanced
 to an OASIS Standard, <
 http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tc-announce/201109/msg00010.html>.

 The final ballot results for approval of OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 is at <
 http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ballot.php?id=2115>.

 Rob Weir has a nice summary on his blog, <
 http://www.robweir.com/blog/2011/09/odf12-approved.html>.  He lists the
 names of the contributors of 1.2 from the specification.  Some of those
 names will be familiar here.

  - Dennis


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> 

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting...

[Cor Nouws]

Italo Vignoli wrote (02-10-11 22:20)

On 10/02/2011 08:38 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:



2. I have an offer. What formatting by senders will most powerfully
serve those on [libreoffice-accessibility]? What do those with access
limitations confirm to be the best that works for all of them?
Whatever *that* is, I will do everything in my power to honor.


I am not an expert about accessibility, but I recall that this is one of
the cases where top posting is the best choice. I suggest to have a
double check, though, as I am not competent in this domain.


I just checked with Peter op 't Hof, Dutch accessibility expert.
He says there is no accessibility problem with mail handling. Most 
important is that it's ascii.
(I did not ask if the people that rely on special handling for 
accessibility, have to do some extra tolling or settings. But I imagine 
the people are informed well enough themselves.)


So accessibility can't be considered as a reason for different mail 
handling.


HTH

--
 - Cor
 - http://nl.libreoffice.org


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Unsupported Components (@Karl Morten Ramberg )

[Italo Vignoli]

On 10/03/2011 06:20 PM, Harold Fuchs wrote:


It's the last sentence "Impress, draw and base is as of now totally
unsopported" that I'm concerned about. Does this sentence mean that LO
is not currently doing *anything* to support/enhance these components or
*only* that there is no work being done on them in relation to HTML5?


The sentence refers to a plugin supposed to read ODF documents inside a 
browser, which - so far - is reading only Writer and Calc files. It is 
not developed by TDF, so the sentence is not referring to LibreOffice 
development.


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[tdf-discuss] Unsupported Components (@Karl Morten Ramberg )

[Harold Fuchs]

On 3 October, in a different thread (ODF and HTML 5) Karl Morten Ramberg 
 said:


== begin quote ===
We have started such a development and we also have some basic
functionality in place and we would be happy to release the code. There
are also some real time collaboration features implemented. So far it is
writer and calc we have been working on. Impress, draw and base is as of
now totally unsopported
=== end quote ===

It's the last sentence "Impress, draw and base is as of now totally 
unsopported" that I'm concerned about. Does this sentence mean that LO is 
not currently doing *anything* to support/enhance these components or *only* 
that there is no work being done on them in relation to HTML5?


Harold Fuchs
London, England



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RE: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

I was hasty.  The 2003 bug report is about a browser plug-in for 
OpenOffice.org, not ODF, and not anything like ODF embedded in an HTML5 
document or whatever else the current idea turns into.

The comment stream is amusing, however disappointingly predictable.

 - Dennis E. Hamilton
   tools for document interoperability,  
   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid

-Original Message-
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] 
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 10:46
To: 'discuss@documentfoundation.org'
Subject: RE: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

The active version of the bug report on having a browser plug-in 
for ODF mentioned below is now at
.

I'm not certain that the current discussion is the same issue, though.


-Original Message-
From: Olivier Hallot [mailto:olivier.hallot@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Olivier 
Hallot
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 02:57
To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5



Em 03-10-2011 06:07, Ian Lynch escreveu:
> There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official
> extension of HTML5. On the face of it it sounds a good idea but I
> don't know enough about the details or whether this is already in
> progress. I guess it would require discussion with W3C, OASIS, and
> probably TDF and ASF as a minimum. A logical technical need could be
> to develop ODF rendering and editing in web browsers. To start with
> this might simply be a limited subset of what can be achieved in
> OO/LibO.

Just for the summary of the issue, this has already been discussed long 
time ago...

http://openoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=22406

But of course, there was no HTML5 at that time...

Regards

-- 
Olivier Hallot
Founder, Steering Commitee Member - The Document Foundation
Voicing the enterprise needs
LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese
+55-21-8822-8812


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RE: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

The active version of the bug report on having a browser plug-in 
for ODF mentioned below is now at
.

I'm not certain that the current discussion is the same issue, though.


-Original Message-
From: Olivier Hallot [mailto:olivier.hallot@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Olivier 
Hallot
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 02:57
To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5



Em 03-10-2011 06:07, Ian Lynch escreveu:
> There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official
> extension of HTML5. On the face of it it sounds a good idea but I
> don't know enough about the details or whether this is already in
> progress. I guess it would require discussion with W3C, OASIS, and
> probably TDF and ASF as a minimum. A logical technical need could be
> to develop ODF rendering and editing in web browsers. To start with
> this might simply be a limited subset of what can be achieved in
> OO/LibO.

Just for the summary of the issue, this has already been discussed long 
time ago...

http://openoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=22406

But of course, there was no HTML5 at that time...

Regards

-- 
Olivier Hallot
Founder, Steering Commitee Member - The Document Foundation
Voicing the enterprise needs
LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese
+55-21-8822-8812


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RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Excuse me.  I didn't start this thread.

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Mark Wielaard [mailto:m...@klomp.org] 
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 01:03
To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List 
Guidelines Page?

Dear Dennis,

On Sun, October 2, 2011 22:00, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> Mark, I think my question was concrete and very clear:
> "> > How about you just read the goddamn RFC's for email protocol and stop
> "> > whining about it?
> "> Which RFC's are you talking about?  Numbers please.
>
> I don't see how RFC 1885 can be meant.

RFC 1885 is one of the inspirations for the document foundation
netiquette page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette

"These guidelines have been inspired by Mozilla Posting Guidelines,
with important additions from
http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php and
http://www.woodgate.org/FAQs/netiquette.html.

Original Netiquette guidelines: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855.
Netiquette on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette.
Other useful information about the Netiquette:
http://www.livinginternet.com/i/ia_nq.htm.";

They are just guidelines, but ones which are generally considered good
practice on mailing lists. Please read them and try to follow them as
much as possible to keep discussions as pleasant and productive.

With respect to your question on top-vs-bottom-posting, the netiquette
gives a guideline, it is best to just follow that and use some tools
that facilitate the bottom-post/interspersed-style. And please refer to
the section on "Let Sleeping Dogs Lie". We all have out pet-peeves that
we would like to discuss and rehash indefinitely. Please resist the urge.

Thanks,

Mark


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RE: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

My apologies for the heavy-duty cross-posting.  It might be good to pick a 
single public list and a subject header and converge there.

Q: WHERE IS THE PROPOSAL?

This started as a simple e-mail list question by Jaime R. Garza on the 
[tdf-discuss] list:
.

There is no proposal in the sense of some technical submission to adapt ODF for 
this purpose.  You are pretty much seeing the extent of the discussion so far.  
The proposal is a paragraph and concept being echoed around these lists now.

Q: WHERE TO BECOME INVOLVED IN ODF IN HTML5?

There are probably two ways to be involved. 

First, development of a proof-of-concept and working [reference] implementation 
is valuable.

Secondly, the development of necessary specifications, perhaps jointly between 
the OASIS ODF TC and the W3C, might be required.  

Also, one needs to differentiate between making some sort of 
OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice deliverable that works in HTML5 and a worked 
extension of HTML5 that somehow ties into the ODF Format.  

It might not even make technical sense to "make ODF part of HTML5," and that 
has to be resolved also.

Q: WHAT ABOUT OASIS (and what does Rob Weir have to say about this)?

Rob is on vacation this week.  I know he and others involved on the OASIS TCs 
are interested in this topic.

A related topic (defining HTML5 presentation of ODF documents) was raised at 
the OASIS ODF Interoperability and Conformance (OIC TC) on their 2011-09-07 
teleconference call:
.  It came under 
section 3.2.3 Profiles.  The discussion is of a Web Profile for ODF.  That is 
not an insignificant effort.

Q: WHAT ARE THE TECHNICAL CHALLENGES?

   ODF has no rendering model and certainly not an 
interactive-presentation/-editing model.  None.  Obviously, 
OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice do, but those is not to be found in the ODF 
specification.

There are an insignificant number of [X]HTML-isms in the ODF specifications.  
XLINK is used, for example.

There is no specified mapping to [X]HTML.  If there were, the import/export of 
[X]HTML in various implementations of ODF-bases software would presumable work 
better.  That would be the potential subject matter of a Web Profile though.

There is no standardized ODF DOM (and API) nor a mapping of ODF into an HTML[5] 
DOM.  Somehow, to make macros and applets work inside ODF, something like this 
is required as well, although having it fit HTML5 as well might be a confusion 
of abstraction levels.  (The integration of macros and applets that access the 
interior structure and external presentation of an ODF document is 
implementation-defined in ODF 1.2.)

Q: WHERE CAN TECHNICAL DEVELOPMENT HAPPEN?

The ODF Toolkit project offers some DOM implementations, but they are not part 
of ODF itself.  

The ODF Toolkit project is currently being moved to Apache though.  That 
project is currently quite Java-centric.  It might be interesting to include 
that effort in this conversation, however.

If a public reference implementation were to be developed, I believe it is 
desirable to have it be Apache licensed, wherever development were to occur.  
The possibility of a new podling at Apache specifically for this effort should 
not be overlooked.  

That is the only political part that I see to these challenges, apart from 
developers, including in private projects, wanting to do it themselves. 



-Original Message-
From: Jaime R. Garza [mailto:gar...@gmail.com] 

< 
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3ccajgn0paeboks7htqpc0waw_qrjgcxezr-rk+63mmbubsce-...@mail.gmail.com%3e>

Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 03:29
To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
Cc: ooo-...@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

Do you have any contacts, links, infos about the proposal and status? I
would really like to get involved!

I think the first step is to integrate ODF into HTML5 as read only, editing
could come later. But this is more political than technical.

Cheers!

Jaime

On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:07, Ian Lynch  wrote:
< http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07705.html>
< 
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3ccaoap24+y0rfcoa78yfhtlmurq5lo4oj7aalyi3hp0rtfm-2...@mail.gmail.com%3e>

> There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official
> extension of HTML5. On the face of it it sounds a good idea but I
> don't know enough about the details or whether this is already in
> progress. I guess it would require discussion with W3C, OASIS, and
> probably TDF and ASF as a minimum. A logical technical need could be
> to develop ODF rendering and editing in web browsers. To start with
> this might simply be a limited subset of what can be achieved in
> OO/LibO.
> --
> Ian
[ ... ]


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting...

[Tanstaafl]

On 2011-10-02 2:38 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:

On 10/2/11 at 09:07, Italo Vignoli wrote:

I have published a comprehensive Mailing List Netiquette, which should
satisfy your needs.

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette

Of course, a mailing list netiquette is just a reference document, and
we cannot kill people who ignore it (the majority of users ignore the
simple existence of the netiquette).


> Thank you for the Mailing List Netiquette page.

And yet you continue to top-post, totally ignoring the recommendations...

PLONK

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Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Being a member of the ODF TC and te OASIS board I can say that it's
technically rather complex, probably undesirable as well. But Rob might
indeed provide a better answer.

Best,

Charles.
Le 3 oct. 2011 12:31, "Jaime R. Garza"  a écrit :
> Do you have any contacts, links, infos about the proposal and status? I
> would really like to get involved!
>
> I think the first step is to integrate ODF into HTML5 as read only,
editing
> could come later. But this is more political than technical.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Jaime
>
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:07, Ian Lynch  wrote:
>
>> There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official
>> extension of HTML5. On the face of it it sounds a good idea but I
>> don't know enough about the details or whether this is already in
>> progress. I guess it would require discussion with W3C, OASIS, and
>> probably TDF and ASF as a minimum. A logical technical need could be
>> to develop ODF rendering and editing in web browsers. To start with
>> this might simply be a limited subset of what can be achieved in
>> OO/LibO.
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>>
>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>
>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>> Wales.
>>
>> --
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>>
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>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

[Karl Morten Ramberg]

We have started such a development and we also have some basic 
functionality in place and we would be happy to release the code. There 
are also some real time collaboration features implemented. So far it is 
writer and calc we have been working on. Impress, draw and base is as of 
now totally unsopported


Den 03.10.2011 11:56, skrev Olivier Hallot:



Em 03-10-2011 06:07, Ian Lynch escreveu:

There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official
extension of HTML5. On the face of it it sounds a good idea but I
don't know enough about the details or whether this is already in
progress. I guess it would require discussion with W3C, OASIS, and
probably TDF and ASF as a minimum. A logical technical need could be
to develop ODF rendering and editing in web browsers. To start with
this might simply be a limited subset of what can be achieved in
OO/LibO.


Just for the summary of the issue, this has already been discussed 
long time ago...


http://openoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=22406

But of course, there was no HTML5 at that time...

Regards



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Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

[Jaime R. Garza]

Do you have any contacts, links, infos about the proposal and status? I
would really like to get involved!

I think the first step is to integrate ODF into HTML5 as read only, editing
could come later. But this is more political than technical.

Cheers!

Jaime

On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:07, Ian Lynch  wrote:

> There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official
> extension of HTML5. On the face of it it sounds a good idea but I
> don't know enough about the details or whether this is already in
> progress. I guess it would require discussion with W3C, OASIS, and
> probably TDF and ASF as a minimum. A logical technical need could be
> to develop ODF rendering and editing in web browsers. To start with
> this might simply be a limited subset of what can be achieved in
> OO/LibO.
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.
>
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> deleted
>
>

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Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

[Italo Vignoli]

On 10/3/11 11:07 AM, Ian Lynch wrote:
> There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official
> extension of HTML5.

I think that this is something that should be addressed to OASIS, as the
body responsible for the ODF standard, for a technical evaluation. OASIS
can address W3C and Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group
(WHATWG) on a technical basis, and a joint group of experts can evaluate
if ODF fits into HTML5.

I am sure that Rob Weir will provide a better explanation of what might
and might not happen about ODF and HTML5.

-- 
Italo Vignoli
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VoIP +39.02.320621813
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Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

[Olivier Hallot]

Em 03-10-2011 06:07, Ian Lynch escreveu:

There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official
extension of HTML5. On the face of it it sounds a good idea but I
don't know enough about the details or whether this is already in
progress. I guess it would require discussion with W3C, OASIS, and
probably TDF and ASF as a minimum. A logical technical need could be
to develop ODF rendering and editing in web browsers. To start with
this might simply be a limited subset of what can be achieved in
OO/LibO.


Just for the summary of the issue, this has already been discussed long 
time ago...


http://openoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=22406

But of course, there was no HTML5 at that time...

Regards

--
Olivier Hallot
Founder, Steering Commitee Member - The Document Foundation
Voicing the enterprise needs
LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese
+55-21-8822-8812


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[tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5

[Ian Lynch]

There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official
extension of HTML5. On the face of it it sounds a good idea but I
don't know enough about the details or whether this is already in
progress. I guess it would require discussion with W3C, OASIS, and
probably TDF and ASF as a minimum. A logical technical need could be
to develop ODF rendering and editing in web browsers. To start with
this might simply be a limited subset of what can be achieved in
OO/LibO.
-- 
Ian

Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved

[Ian Lynch]

On 3 October 2011 09:45, Jaime R. Garza  wrote:
> It would be great if connected people could help to introduce this idea. I
> hope it doesn't stay just as an idea! I'll be willing to help in the
> discussions and organization, but I don't have the contacts. Anyone with
> contacts willing to help?

TDF committee members who are also members of OASIS. AOO PPMC members
(I am one) but I don't have any connections to OASIS. I can post this
on the AOO lists though and see. Also if there is interest there and
at TDF there are other possible links. OSC Chairman here in the UK is
on the OASIS tech committee and I can get him involved.

> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 09:44, Ian Lynch  wrote:
>
>> On 2 October 2011 23:41, Jaime R. Garza  wrote:
>> > Hello All,
>> >
>> > Why isn't ODF added as an extension of HTML5?
>>
>> That is a very good idea.
>>
>> > This would define ODF as the defacto Web Standard for Files!
>> >
>> > An ideas who could try to pursue such an agreement?
>>
>> Presumably get OASIS, TDF and AOO representatives to talk to W3C. Get
>> a strategy agreed with say Mozilla and Google for good browser support
>> for rendering and editing ODF documents. (assuming MS will not play
>> ball but you never know). Editing could be a subset to start with eg
>> limited to editing text.
>>
>> > Cheers!
>> >
>> > Jaime
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 03:17, Dennis E. Hamilton <
>> dennis.hamil...@acm.org>wrote:
>> >
>> >> The OASIS ODF 1.2 Committee Specification 01 has been successfully
>> advanced
>> >> to an OASIS Standard, <
>> >> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tc-announce/201109/msg00010.html>.
>> >>
>> >> The final ballot results for approval of OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 is at <
>> >> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ballot.php?id=2115>.
>> >>
>> >> Rob Weir has a nice summary on his blog, <
>> >> http://www.robweir.com/blog/2011/09/odf12-approved.html>.  He lists the
>> >> names of the contributors of 1.2 from the specification.  Some of those
>> >> names will be familiar here.
>> >>
>> >>  - Dennis
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
>> >> Problems?
>> >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
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>> >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> >> deleted
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
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>> > Problems?
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>> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>>
>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>
>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>> Wales.
>>
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>>
>>
>
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>
>



-- 
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Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved

[Jaime R. Garza]

It would be great if connected people could help to introduce this idea. I
hope it doesn't stay just as an idea! I'll be willing to help in the
discussions and organization, but I don't have the contacts. Anyone with
contacts willing to help?


On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 09:44, Ian Lynch  wrote:

> On 2 October 2011 23:41, Jaime R. Garza  wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > Why isn't ODF added as an extension of HTML5?
>
> That is a very good idea.
>
> > This would define ODF as the defacto Web Standard for Files!
> >
> > An ideas who could try to pursue such an agreement?
>
> Presumably get OASIS, TDF and AOO representatives to talk to W3C. Get
> a strategy agreed with say Mozilla and Google for good browser support
> for rendering and editing ODF documents. (assuming MS will not play
> ball but you never know). Editing could be a subset to start with eg
> limited to editing text.
>
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Jaime
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 03:17, Dennis E. Hamilton <
> dennis.hamil...@acm.org>wrote:
> >
> >> The OASIS ODF 1.2 Committee Specification 01 has been successfully
> advanced
> >> to an OASIS Standard, <
> >> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tc-announce/201109/msg00010.html>.
> >>
> >> The final ballot results for approval of OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 is at <
> >> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ballot.php?id=2115>.
> >>
> >> Rob Weir has a nice summary on his blog, <
> >> http://www.robweir.com/blog/2011/09/odf12-approved.html>.  He lists the
> >> names of the contributors of 1.2 from the specification.  Some of those
> >> names will be familiar here.
> >>
> >>  - Dennis
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> >> Problems?
> >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> >> Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> >> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> >> deleted
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
> > Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.
>
> --
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> deleted
>
>

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RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?

[Mark Wielaard]

Dear Dennis,

On Sun, October 2, 2011 22:00, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> Mark, I think my question was concrete and very clear:
> "> > How about you just read the goddamn RFC's for email protocol and stop
> "> > whining about it?
> "> Which RFC's are you talking about?  Numbers please.
>
> I don't see how RFC 1885 can be meant.

RFC 1885 is one of the inspirations for the document foundation
netiquette page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette

"These guidelines have been inspired by Mozilla Posting Guidelines,
with important additions from
http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php and
http://www.woodgate.org/FAQs/netiquette.html.

Original Netiquette guidelines: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855.
Netiquette on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette.
Other useful information about the Netiquette:
http://www.livinginternet.com/i/ia_nq.htm.";

They are just guidelines, but ones which are generally considered good
practice on mailing lists. Please read them and try to follow them as
much as possible to keep discussions as pleasant and productive.

With respect to your question on top-vs-bottom-posting, the netiquette
gives a guideline, it is best to just follow that and use some tools
that facilitate the bottom-post/interspersed-style. And please refer to
the section on "Let Sleeping Dogs Lie". We all have out pet-peeves that
we would like to discuss and rehash indefinitely. Please resist the urge.

Thanks,

Mark


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Re: [tdf-discuss] OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 Approved

[Ian Lynch]

On 2 October 2011 23:41, Jaime R. Garza  wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> Why isn't ODF added as an extension of HTML5?

That is a very good idea.

> This would define ODF as the defacto Web Standard for Files!
>
> An ideas who could try to pursue such an agreement?

Presumably get OASIS, TDF and AOO representatives to talk to W3C. Get
a strategy agreed with say Mozilla and Google for good browser support
for rendering and editing ODF documents. (assuming MS will not play
ball but you never know). Editing could be a subset to start with eg
limited to editing text.

> Cheers!
>
> Jaime
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 03:17, Dennis E. Hamilton 
> wrote:
>
>> The OASIS ODF 1.2 Committee Specification 01 has been successfully advanced
>> to an OASIS Standard, <
>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tc-announce/201109/msg00010.html>.
>>
>> The final ballot results for approval of OASIS Standard ODF 1.2 is at <
>> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ballot.php?id=2115>.
>>
>> Rob Weir has a nice summary on his blog, <
>> http://www.robweir.com/blog/2011/09/odf12-approved.html>.  He lists the
>> names of the contributors of 1.2 from the specification.  Some of those
>> names will be familiar here.
>>
>>  - Dennis
>>
>>
>> --
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>> deleted
>>
>
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>
>



-- 
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Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.

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