[tdf-discuss] Re: Can we replace Floppy Disk
v...@ukr.net wrote in message news:20120112001553.6c327f8b.v...@ukr.net... I like the floppy icon. HDD icon is being broadly used nowadays, but as somebody pointed in this thread, not every user is familiar with computer inside, so changing from one thing that they haven't seen to another one which they also haven't seen doesn't make much sense. Optical drive icon is a bad variant because people usually do not save the documents directly to the optical drive; instead they usually tend to associate the CD icon with CD/DVD burning process. USB icon is also not a better solution, because not every user knows what this sign means (although they probably can see it on many different devices). In any case, the traditional Foppy icon just works. Why changing something that works? The policy of making changes for their own sake does not seem a good one to me. Just my thoughts. Regards, Vladimir The icon for opening a previously saved document is an open folder with a curved arrow pointing *out of* it. If a change to the Save icon is deemed necessary, perhaps it could become the same open folder but with the curved arrow pointing *into* it. Or would that be too confusing to the eye? Different colour(s)? -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Status of .docX etc.
Would someone please either explain or point me at a detailed explanation of the current status of LO vis à vis the new MS office document formats docx, xlsx etc. Can LO read/import these formats for *editing*? All of them? If not, which? Can LO write/export these formats? All of them? If not, which? What plans are there for read/import? Schedule? What plans are there for write/export? Schedule? I Googled but none of the documents I found were dated so it's impossible to know if they are current. -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Re: Re: overall communication guidelines andreply-tomangling
Friedrich Strohmaier damokles4-lis...@bits-fritz.de wrote in message news:4ed91461.9050...@bits-fritz.de... Hi Harold, *, Am 30.11.2011 11:59 schrieb Harold Fuchs: I think the idea that a simple Reply should only go the OP is very poor: Thanks for uncovering other contributor's real nature, who have different opinion|experience. Great to see You're not affected.. I'm really not sure what this means. I think I should say thank you for the compliment. 1. People will not be able to see whether or not a question has been answered, or if it has been answered well. 2. People who didn't ask the question might nevertheless be interested in [some aspect(s) of] the answer but they won't get it. 3. Many of the people who ask questions are not technically familiar with the intricacies of e-mail. Thus, if they have a follow up to an answer and just hit Reply (which they will because they don't know better), that follow up will *only* go to the person who responded to the original question instead of to the list. 4. In general the scheme will proliferate private conversations which is the exact opposite of the intention behind using a list. 5. If you want this sort of behaviour, use a *forum* where the questioner can subscribe to only his/her question threads You describe a scenario of people with zero experience in mailinglist discussion. These definitely are a minority, where a significant part of is willing to learn how to do well. As mentioned earlier: technical reply issues are *one* of several things to learn to handle. Here I have to disagree. The people who most need the help are the least experienced. Also, as time goes by users of Office Suites have less and less experience of real internet usage. The concept of a mailing list is increasingly unknown. Many (most?) think they are talking to a help desk and will only hit Reply with no understanding that Reply All is necessary. You want support, contact the company that supplied the product. Someone replies and you want more, just reply. It's one-to-one. It's bad enough trying to explain to the *users* the differences between a mail-list, a Usenet group and a web forum. Even apparently experienced users don't know the difference between News (NNTP) and Mail (SMTP). Just trawl the OOo Users list for evidence. In addition, as someone who has frequently answered questions in the OOo Users list, I don't *want* private mail. My filters put OOo mail in a special folder. That all gets messed up when people reply directly to me. I know many other OOo volunteers do the same. So, *please* keep the Address Mangling ot force people to use a forum - which I like even less but that's another discussion. Perhaps for expert groups like Dev, the idea *might* be OK Things to learn to reply in a useful way, don't require expert skills. Ideally its a matter of learning a handful *simple* rules, to handle *all* situations. but for the lists designed for general support I really don't think it is sensible. If You define providing advice for people not related to the project work as general support You're right. But there are many community people who already expressed their opinion, mailinglists not being the best choice for that - I'm one of those ;o)). Gruß/regards -- Friedrich Strohmaier Melchingen/Germany ;o)) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Re: overall communication guidelines and reply-tomangling
Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote in message news:4ed5e9fe.5040...@documentfoundation.org... Hi, NoOp wrote on 2011-11-30 05:02: I disagree. The moderators list is active, you guys post there regularly - try it on yourselves before creating a why is this happening panic on this list? Keep in mind that this list is also used by general users: well, I don't want to disable the current mangling at all - but if we want to evaluate the impact, I thought it make sense to do it on a larger list. A list with a few subscribers and basically no e-mails is not an ideal test object... But now it looks like the mangling change will only be relevant for a few lists, indeed. Better yet, try it on the dev list as this seems to be where the request is originating from. That change is already in effect on the dev list, but I think it's not comparable to other lists at LibO. :) Florian I think the idea that a simple Reply should only go the OP is very poor: 1. People will not be able to see whether or not a question has been answered, or if it has been answered well. 2. People who didn't ask the question might nevertheless be interested in [some aspect(s) of] the answer but they won't get it. 3. Many of the people who ask questions are not technically familiar with the intricacies of e-mail. Thus, if they have a follow up to an answer and just hit Reply (which they will because they don't know better), that follow up will *only* go to the person who responded to the original question instead of to the list. 4. In general the scheme will proliferate private conversations which is the exact opposite of the intention behind using a list. 5. If you want this sort of behaviour, use a *forum* where the questioner can subscribe to only his/her question threads Perhaps for expert groups like Dev, the idea *might* be OK but for the lists designed for general support I really don't think it is sensible. Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Unsupported Components (@Karl Morten Ramberg k...@ofs.no)
On 3 October, in a different thread (ODF and HTML 5) Karl Morten Ramberg k...@ofs.no said: == begin quote === We have started such a development and we also have some basic functionality in place and we would be happy to release the code. There are also some real time collaboration features implemented. So far it is writer and calc we have been working on. Impress, draw and base is as of now totally unsopported === end quote === It's the last sentence Impress, draw and base is as of now totally unsopported that I'm concerned about. Does this sentence mean that LO is not currently doing *anything* to support/enhance these components or *only* that there is no work being done on them in relation to HTML5? Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] OT: Swiss to Ban PowerPoint?
From The Times Referendum to ban PowerPoint planned Marie Tourres and Charles Bremner Paris July 12 2011 12:01AM Switzerland could become the first country to outlaw what a campaigner there sees as a tyranny that blights the modern world: the PowerPoint presentation. Matthias Poehm, the founder of a single-issue political party, aims to use the Swiss system of direct democracy to spare employees the boredom of enduring talks that use the ubiquitous Microsoft software or the handful of lesser brands of electronic slide projection. The “Anti-PowerPoint Party”, which says that it has so far gathered nearly 1,000 members, calculates that €350 billion (£308 billion) could be saved around the world annually by dropping soporific presentations that take people away from real work. In Europe, the APPP says twice-weekly PowerPoint presentations to 296 million workers are costing €110 billion annually — the same as the international bail-out for Greece. “The party is serious and the cause is serious,” said Mr Poehm, a public speaking coach. “The problem with PowerPoint is that it creates boredom. There is no suspense,” he told The Times. PowerPoint, and the lesser brands of potted presentations, kill the motivation that is much more effectively stirred by drawing live on flip-charts, he said. “Only one thing interests this party: the disaster caused by PowerPoint,” he added. “I am like a doctor who looks out the window and sees people suffering from a disease without realising the cure. I know it.” He added: “When you compare two presentations on the same subject, one with PowerPoint and the other on a paper board, in 95 per cent of the cases the one on the paper board is much more effective. PowerPoint only gives the result ... With paper you participate in the creation of the result and that is what interests the spectator.” Mr Poehm and his APPP are part of a trend against the easy-to-use software which, the critics say, can oversimplify and mislead by boiling complicated matters down to bullet points. PP has become the butt of comedians. A Zogby poll in the United States last year found that 24 per cent of people would prefer to forego sex for the night and 21 per cent would prefer to do their income tax return rather than attend a PowerPoint talk. Professor Yiannis Gabriel, of the Bath University School of Management, has called PowerPoint “the slave-turned-master imposing its tyranny on everything it touches”. Microsoft, which has owned PowerPoint since 1987, has declined to comment on Mr Poehm’s claimed movement. Mr Poehm wants his party to win enough votes for a seat on the Swiss National Council — the lower house of the federal parliament — in elections in October. It also aims to raise the requisite 100,000 signatures to stage a referendum on the “prohibition of PowerPoint during presentations”. “We want the world to take note of this cause. Everybody complains but nobody does anything,” says the APPP’s manifesto. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Oracle contributes OOo Code to Apache Software Foundation'sIncubator
plino pedl...@gmail.com wrote in message news:1307086982610-3018856.p...@n3.nabble.com... As a user I wouldn't be happy IF the devs split up between two projects. The way I see it is IBM and maybe some Oracle devs will work on OOo and everybody else will work on LO... The good part (besides the Apache license which allows LO to use what little code will be openly contributed to OOo) is that IBM will continue to develop ODF, which badly needs it. I find it a little absurd that the people behind a file format that has been under development for years haven't implemented font embedding... Of course, fonts are not important for serious business companies :) -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Oracle-contributes-OOo-Code-to-Apache-Software-Foundation-s-Incubator-tp3011527p3018856.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. The LO folk left the OOo group because OOo was, in their opinion, going to be over-controlled (by Oracle). Now that this is no longer true, the LO folk don't have a case and should return to the fold. So, why don't the LO folk do a deal with Apache, combine the best bits of OOo with LO to get back to a single product and form jointly with the Apache folk an LO Foundation. It seems completely crazy to have two sets of developers and two sets of code. All that does is sow FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) in the minds of potential users. Oh, and by the way, get rid of the asinine name LibreOffice which half the world can't pronounce and which three quarters of the world doesn't understand the meaning of. -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice Math: There is no
Olivier Hallot olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org wrote in message news:4dc180b3.6020...@documentfoundation.org... Em 04-05-2011 13:11, M Henri Day escreveu: 2011/5/4 Olivier Hallotolivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org Thanks Mike for the tip As I see, this character U+2204, does not exist in Opensymbol font, used by Math by default. At least not in the displayed characters of Math UI. So, if this symbol get implemented in Opensymbol, it will be trivial to make it show in the Element window Olivier Olivier, in Linux operating systems such as, e g, Ubuntu, symbols like the ∄ symbol can easily be inserted in a LibreOffice document by holding the Ctrl and Shift keys and pressing u (Ctrl+Shift+u) and then typing the hexdecimal code (in this case) 2204 and pressing the space bar. But I agree, this type of logic symbol should certainly be included in the list of special characters in LibreOffice Math Henri Hi Yes, in a Mandriva system as well, although I run out of fingers to type such key combination!! Does not work in Windows... See http://www.fileformat.info/tip/microsoft/enter_unicode.htm for ways of entering Unicode characters in Windows. Method 1 works for me in Math and also works in Writer provided I first choose the OpenSymbol font. Harold Fuchs London -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
Carl Symons carlsym...@gmail.com wrote in message news:banlktimoffhjrfh0cxmucafqkqjjna2...@mail.gmail.com... On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs hwfa.libreoff...@gmail.com wrote: Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for OpenOffice.org ? The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two links to OOo forums: - http://www.oooforum.org/ - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ Harold Fuchs London, England Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other. There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums. Has Oracle given permission for TDF to use its forum, or doesn't TDF need such permission? Does TDF *want* to use an Oracle resource? -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Forums - A Different Question
Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for OpenOffice.org ? The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two links to OOo forums: - http://www.oooforum.org/ - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: The fast evolving shape of documents
drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote in message news:1303393014.20515.26.camel@sybil-gnome... Hi, Just thought I'd pass along a reference to this article: http://drdobbs.com/tools/229400040 snipped To make electronic forms of documents an adequate, perhaps superior replacement for printed documents, we need three levels of independ- ent abstractions for documents: the document itself, how the docu- ment is rendered on a particular media or device, and the markup for that document. A document should be able to be rendered through a transformation that is a function of a device and display parameters. This leads to the notion that page numbers simply are not ideal for electronic documents. Hmm. Please would someone suggest an alternative mechanism that lets me easily detect that part(s) of the document is(are) missing. Numbering pages as 1 of 38, 2 of 38, ... 37 of 38, 38 of 38 serves this purpose rather well. Open to fraud of course but not really to accidental damage. I suppose that if the document will *never* be printed then page numbers could go but adding page numbers as the document is printed would be open to serious accidental damage. snipped —Geoffrey Pascoe snipped A little something to chew over perhaps. Best wishes, Drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Request for Libre Office on Spoon
Blake Madden bl...@spoon.net wrote in message news:82139c289ea11a4981f14157f0556870104...@c6.code.net... Hello, I was referred to this mailing list by Florian Effenberger of The Document Foundation. My name is Blake and I work for a company called Spoon, which offers the ability to launch desktop apps from the web with no installs. We recently received a request to add LibreOffice to the Spoon.net app library. We'd like to partner with The Document Foundation to offer LibreOffice on Spoon. In the interest of transparency and public input, Florian suggested I submit my request to this mailing list for discussion. You can see examples of Spoon powered apps at http://spoon.net/apps . For free apps and trials, Spoon is a free service, and all that is needed for distribution is written permission. Feel free to shoot me an email if you have any questions. Thanks for your time. Sincerely, Blake Madden Account Manager Spoon [Play-At-Spoon-On-White-Small] Connect your desktops to the cloud Web: spoon.nethttp://www.spoon.net/ Latest apps @spoonappshttp://twitter.com/spoonapps and games @spoongameshttp://twitter.com/spoonapps US: 877-223-3551 x1005 Int'l: 206-774-8769 Fax: 206-388-3110 1000 Dexter Avenue, 5th Floor Seattle, Washington 98109 If I create a document using the Spoon version of LibreOffice (SLO), where will that document exist? On a Spoon server somewhere or on the PC I was using when I ran SLO? If the document contains pictures or sound/video clips, where are those? -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Re: Suppression of Blank Lines in Addresses inLabels and Envelopes from Data Base
Alan Reeve tec...@reeve36.plus.com wrote in message news:4d52a8ef.7030...@reeve36.plus.com... On 09/02/2011 11:12, Alexander Thurgood wrote: Le 09/02/11 11:49, Alan Reeve a écrit : Hi Alan, As there has been no response, can I ask if I have put my request into the wrong forum or are there too many other organisational problems being addressed presently? I would say, Yes and Yes to both those questions, whilst qualifying the second as too many other bugs to hunt down and sort out which are not related to Base. The Base module has, as far as I know, and I would gladly stand corrected, no specifically assigned experienced developer / programmer which knows the Base module well enough to deal with these problems. Add to that the fact that many of the current bugs are actually present in OOo 3.3.0, i.e. introduced by the OOo development team, then it is likely considered a waste of resources for the LibO team to deal with something that may, possibly, get handled by Oracle. As to your bug correction request, you would be better off filing a bug report at freedesktop.org, which is where TDF has decided that all such reports should be filed, or even better still with Oracle. Alex Hi Alex Thanks for your response. So far as I can see, the problem does not lie in Base but within the Text Document (Writer) modules. The address line suppression should form part of the Print from Base window in Text Document after you have inserted fields from your database. The Writer program responds with the wording Your document contains database address fields. do you want to print a form letter? When you respond Yes, then a further box comes up with the database selected and just asks you to confirm whether you wish to send the files to Printer or File. I have hesitated to show this as a bug, because the program is not wrong, it just does not do enough. Is that a bug? Alan It's not a bug in the software, it's a bug in the *design* of the software. -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Computer Magazine cover CDs
Zaphod Feeblejocks zapho...@gmail.com wrote in message news:4d519790.20904.10ec6...@zaphod.fj.gmail.com... Here's one for you marketing gurus - has anyone approached computer magazines about putting LibO on cover disks? -- Zaphod . Excellent point. OpenOffice.org is frequently on such CDs/DVDs! -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [tdf-discuss] 恭禧發財
M Henri Day mhenri...@gmail.com wrote in message news:AANLkTimLyyZmZzWk=92TYCnfm=oahfko12zp38ak0...@mail.gmail.com... 2011/2/3 yahoo-pier_andreit pier_andr...@yahoo.it Il 03/02/2011 16:10, M Henri Day ha scritto: 2011/2/3 drew d...@baseanswers.com The year of the Rabbit is upon us, So go do what rabbit's do! Which is . tell all their friends about LibreOffice! 长寿 Drew *祝 新春快乐 ！ *Henri (*戴安理*) whoat are you talking about?:-) I regret having offended your sensibilities, Pier Andreit ; I simply took my cue from Drew. Hope that you have not suffered permanent damage from being confronted with a script you do not understand !... Henri (戴安理) Henri, Google translator translates your 戴安理 as Diane Li. Why, please? I have *no* Chinese of any description (Mandarin, Cantonese, ...) whatsoever so, if it's a pun or similar, please explain. Oh, and to James Wilde, thank you very much for Google translator; wonderful! -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] OpenOffice.org in the Cloud? LibreOffice Next?
See http://www.silicon.com/technology/software/2011/01/14/photos-oracle-cloud-office-in-the-flesh-39746808/?s_cid=787 -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] No Documentation???
Please someone tell me I'm wrong here and/or have misunderstood something. I go to the TDF home page http://www.documentfoundation.org/ and click the LibreOffice button. This takes me to http://www.documentfoundation.org/download/ from where I can download the software. BUT: there is no link to any documentation there is no link to any support - forums, FAQs, mail lists, Wikis etc. etc. there is no statement of system requirements, nor a link to such a statement there are no installation instructions, nor a link to such instructions there is no link to any repository of extensions (nor any way for a newbie to discover that such things exist) There is no MD5 sum for the file to be downloaded What am I doing wrong, please? -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Re: A proposal for effective, volunteer-friendlyuser support in LibreOffice
Robert Derman robert.der...@pressenter.com wrote in message news:4cec9cb9.10...@pressenter.com... Alexander Thurgood wrote: Le 23/11/10 23:01, Robert Derman a écrit : I just have to respond to this, I hate forums or anything else that required the use of PASSWORDS!!! I already have 10 times too many passwords to remember or keep track of and I want absolutely NO more. Frankly I wish the entire computer and software industry would flush the whole idea of passwords down the loo and come up with something else entirely. How else would one prevent bots from joining the lists and spamming them ? If you want an example, of how bad it has become, join a usenet newsgroup and see how much crud gets posted on it. Use Captcha when a user registers. How else would one provide a given user a modicum of security and identification ? I don't know offhand, but the geniuses in the computer and software industries need to find a better way. Passwords are NOT the answer. -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Google now integrates with MSO, what about Libre/OO?
Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote in message news:ich2tj$ol...@dough.gmane.org... Le 2010-11-23 12:33, Nathan a écrit : On 11/23/2010 05:37 AM, Rainer Bielefeld wrote: Marc Paré schrieb: [...] IMO, the user should always be left in control of the extensions. If they are so necessary, then they should be coded in and not be called extensions. +1 I have a non removable Zulu hyphenation dictionary from 2008, but no Help. Rainer This isnt practical with the user base we service. Each user has different expectations and needs from LibO, there for each user may need different plugins, extensions, templates, etc etc. This is giving the user true control and choice. With that said, the popularity of plugins in itself(automatic installation, removal, and updating) will be beneficial to LibO in the general scheme of things. Agreed. But then there needs to be - a *proper* management system so that one's extensions are not blown away by new versions - a *proper* scheme for notifying a user when a new [sub-[sub-]... version of LO invalidates an extension - a scheme whereby a user can easily remove *any* extension, even those that came *in the box with LO - a scheme whereby a user can easily re-install *any* extension that came *in the box* with LO and was removed by the above scheme. - a *proper* scheme whereby users can request notification of upgrades to *individual* extensions My main relationship with extensions has come from using Firefox. Yes, extensions are great but it is nevertheless extremely frustrating when an upgrade to FF comes along that invalidates an extension one has been relying on for quite a while. LO really must try to avoid this if it is to rely on extensions in the future. The same points apply to templates, plugins etc. -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Re: Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
Phil Hibbs sna...@gmail.com wrote in message news:aanlktin5x5+tsqrnj=be061onrnu1fas2xq1xek+d...@mail.gmail.com... Ian Lynch: And of course there is the argument that without certain features some of the large public sector switches might not have happened. Back in my teens, my dad and I wrote a Basic interpreter for the PC based on the Acorn BBC Micro dialect. We went to a computer show, and I lost count of the number of people who just asked Is it 100% compatible?, and when I said no, but..., they just laughed and walked off. It's a hard barrier to break through - there are plenty of people who will say It doesn't have feature X therefore we'll stick with Microsoft. Sometimes it's features that can be worked around, such as only allowing one AutoFilter in a workbook, but someone will use that as an excuse for declaring a show-stop. A portable version would (a) have all the features and (b) be a first, albeit small step towards modularisation because it would free the code from dependencies on things like the Windows Registry. -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice should have own LibreOfficeFont
Mateusz Zasuwik mzasu...@gmail.com wrote in message news:aanlktin4f7ls=f5cf+mt3ul2koaxtnxb2ko4exf=0...@mail.gmail.com... Hello Early this year FlashCounter published a statistic showed popularity OOo in selected countries. We found out that it had 22% in Poland and Czech Republic and 21% in Germany. http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html http://ooblog.pl/2010/02/06/polska-swiatowym-liderem-we-wdrozeniu-openoffice/(polish) The study relies on extricating fonts installed on the system and identify the installed Office suites. For OOo it's OpenSymbol and for MSO it's Calibri. I think LibreOffice should have own unique font (not RedHat Liberation Fonts). It can be ugly and useless but should be to next compare in future. That's a very clever idea but how was it implemented? How do you (or FlashCounter) decide what fonts are installed on my system? What approval did I give for that to be done? If I approved it, why didn't I instead simply say what office suite(s) I had installed? What software looked at my fonts? Is it still installed on my system? Is it still sending the information? What other information is it sending? To whom is the data being sent? To whom are they sending the data? What other uses are being made of the data? Did I approve those uses? When? How? -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
On 17/11/2010 18:22, jonathon wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/17/2010 04:25 PM, Mirek M. wrote: I'd say that a web app should have higher priority here, This should be an independent project. In an ideal world, the code would be modular and clearly commented, so that any developer could pick up various pieces, either to port it to a new platform/OS, or to refine them a specialized function. web apps work on all platforms with a modern browser The Internet is not always available. And where it is available, it is not always cheap. [ The data plan for my smartphone costs double that of my cable connection, but only offers 1/10,000 of the data transfer that my cable connection offers. Data transfer surcharges can reach US$1.00 per kilobyte. (Data transfer, not data speed.) ] an open-source web app has many more possible uses than a desktop app; The number of potential users is meaningless. What counts is the number of people that can, and will use it. the mobile OS market is still pretty unstable: there's no clear platform to develop for. If you are waiting for a clear platform to develop for, you will wait forever. At best, there will be three dominant platforms for mobile devices, and three dominant platforms for desktop devices, and three dominant platforms for gaming consoles, for a total of ten different platforms to code for. The worst case scenario is that there will be five dominant mobile device platforms, with another five dominant desktop platforms with another five dominant gaming consoles, for a total of sixteen different platforms to code for. In either instance, you are looking at between twenty and thirty different platforms, in order to support user-expectations, in terms of cross-platform availability. all the other mobile operating systems haven't yet reached the level of marketshare that iOS and Android have. 2010 2Q Marketshare Symbian: 41.2% RIM: 18.2% Android: 17.2% iOS: 14.2% WinMO: 5% Linux: 2.4% Other: 1.8% Source: http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1421013 (August 2010) To call Android and iOS marketshare leaders, when they are more than twenty percentage points behind the OS with the highest market penetration reveals a lack of knowledge of mobile device marketshare. Compared to 2009 2Q the marketshare is not there either: Symbian: 51.0% RIM: 19.0% iOS: 13.0% WinMo: 9.3% Linux: 4.6% Android: 1.8% Other: 1.2% * Symbian will probably retain first position, but it won't have the thirty percentage point advantage in marketshare that it used to have; * Due to manufacturing issues, iOS won't get above 20% --- if it can even get that high; * Android will flatten out at between 20% and 25%. * Assuming RIM can satisfy the voyeurism that afflicts government agencies, it should hold steady at between 15% and 20%. * The other platforms will be holding their breath, wondering if their oxygen supply will extinguish them; jonathon I think there's another consideration here: security. What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the security of any document I may store on its server? What prevents the operator's employees or ex-employees accessing my documents? What prevents drive-by hackers accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting me accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting the service provider accessing my documents? Can I set passwords on my documents? I suppose I could encrypt my document but most people probably don't have this technology readily available (see below). What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the backing-up and subsequent recovery of any document I may store on its server? What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the availability of any document I may store on its server? A large part of the point of a portable app is that I can put the whole kit and caboodle on an encrypted device if I want. Even without going to such lengths, the security, availability and back-up/recovery is up to me, not up to some unknown company whose procedures I cannot trust (based on fairly recent history in many cases) whatever its policies may say. In several cases, storing documents on a server outside the owner's country (or geographic region) could well be illegal. I'm not at all convinced that people and, more particularly, corporations, have really analysed the implications of web apps and cloud computing. When they do I don't think web apps will prove all that popular. Call me a Luddite if you like but ... -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
On 17/11/2010 18:54, Harold Fuchs wrote: On 17/11/2010 18:22, jonathon wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/17/2010 04:25 PM, Mirek M. wrote: I'd say that a web app should have higher priority here, This should be an independent project. In an ideal world, the code would be modular and clearly commented, so that any developer could pick up various pieces, either to port it to a new platform/OS, or to refine them a specialized function. web apps work on all platforms with a modern browser The Internet is not always available. And where it is available, it is not always cheap. [ The data plan for my smartphone costs double that of my cable connection, but only offers 1/10,000 of the data transfer that my cable connection offers. Data transfer surcharges can reach US$1.00 per kilobyte. (Data transfer, not data speed.) ] an open-source web app has many more possible uses than a desktop app; The number of potential users is meaningless. What counts is the number of people that can, and will use it. the mobile OS market is still pretty unstable: there's no clear platform to develop for. If you are waiting for a clear platform to develop for, you will wait forever. At best, there will be three dominant platforms for mobile devices, and three dominant platforms for desktop devices, and three dominant platforms for gaming consoles, for a total of ten different platforms to code for. The worst case scenario is that there will be five dominant mobile device platforms, with another five dominant desktop platforms with another five dominant gaming consoles, for a total of sixteen different platforms to code for. In either instance, you are looking at between twenty and thirty different platforms, in order to support user-expectations, in terms of cross-platform availability. all the other mobile operating systems haven't yet reached the level of marketshare that iOS and Android have. 2010 2Q Marketshare Symbian: 41.2% RIM: 18.2% Android: 17.2% iOS: 14.2% WinMO: 5% Linux: 2.4% Other: 1.8% Source: http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1421013 (August 2010) To call Android and iOS marketshare leaders, when they are more than twenty percentage points behind the OS with the highest market penetration reveals a lack of knowledge of mobile device marketshare. Compared to 2009 2Q the marketshare is not there either: Symbian: 51.0% RIM: 19.0% iOS: 13.0% WinMo: 9.3% Linux: 4.6% Android: 1.8% Other: 1.2% * Symbian will probably retain first position, but it won't have the thirty percentage point advantage in marketshare that it used to have; * Due to manufacturing issues, iOS won't get above 20% --- if it can even get that high; * Android will flatten out at between 20% and 25%. * Assuming RIM can satisfy the voyeurism that afflicts government agencies, it should hold steady at between 15% and 20%. * The other platforms will be holding their breath, wondering if their oxygen supply will extinguish them; jonathon I think there's another consideration here: security. What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the security of any document I may store on its server? What prevents the operator's employees or ex-employees accessing my documents? What prevents drive-by hackers accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting me accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting the service provider accessing my documents? Can I set passwords on my documents? I suppose I could encrypt my document but most people probably don't have this technology readily available (see below). What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the backing-up and subsequent recovery of any document I may store on its server? What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the availability of any document I may store on its server? A large part of the point of a portable app is that I can put the whole kit and caboodle on an encrypted device if I want. Even without going to such lengths, the security, availability and back-up/recovery is up to me, not up to some unknown company whose procedures I cannot trust (based on fairly recent history in many cases) whatever its policies may say. In several cases, storing documents on a server outside the owner's country (or geographic region) could well be illegal. I'm not at all convinced that people and, more particularly, corporations, have really analysed the implications of web apps and cloud computing. When they do I don't think web apps will prove all that popular. Call me a Luddite if you like but ... Sorry to reply to my own post but there's something I forgot: What guarantees do I get that a document I prepare today will be properly processable by the web app provider's software tomorrow? Do I have any control over the version of the software I use? -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org
[tdf-discuss] Re: Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
On 17/11/2010 21:45, Mirek M. wrote: 2010/11/17 Harold Fuchshwfa.libreoff...@gmail.com On 17/11/2010 18:54, Harold Fuchs wrote: On 17/11/2010 18:22, jonathon wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/17/2010 04:25 PM, Mirek M. wrote: I'd say that a web app should have higher priority here, This should be an independent project. In an ideal world, the code would be modular and clearly commented, so that any developer could pick up various pieces, either to port it to a new platform/OS, or to refine them a specialized function. web apps work on all platforms with a modern browser The Internet is not always available. And where it is available, it is not always cheap. [ The data plan for my smartphone costs double that of my cable connection, but only offers 1/10,000 of the data transfer that my cable connection offers. Data transfer surcharges can reach US$1.00 per kilobyte. (Data transfer, not data speed.) ] an open-source web app has many more possible uses than a desktop app; The number of potential users is meaningless. What counts is the number of people that can, and will use it. the mobile OS market is still pretty unstable: there's no clear platform to develop for. If you are waiting for a clear platform to develop for, you will wait forever. At best, there will be three dominant platforms for mobile devices, and three dominant platforms for desktop devices, and three dominant platforms for gaming consoles, for a total of ten different platforms to code for. The worst case scenario is that there will be five dominant mobile device platforms, with another five dominant desktop platforms with another five dominant gaming consoles, for a total of sixteen different platforms to code for. In either instance, you are looking at between twenty and thirty different platforms, in order to support user-expectations, in terms of cross-platform availability. all the other mobile operating systems haven't yet reached the level of marketshare that iOS and Android have. 2010 2Q Marketshare Symbian: 41.2% RIM: 18.2% Android: 17.2% iOS: 14.2% WinMO: 5% Linux: 2.4% Other: 1.8% Source: http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1421013 (August 2010) To call Android and iOS marketshare leaders, when they are more than twenty percentage points behind the OS with the highest market penetration reveals a lack of knowledge of mobile device marketshare. Compared to 2009 2Q the marketshare is not there either: Symbian: 51.0% RIM: 19.0% iOS: 13.0% WinMo: 9.3% Linux: 4.6% Android: 1.8% Other: 1.2% * Symbian will probably retain first position, but it won't have the thirty percentage point advantage in marketshare that it used to have; * Due to manufacturing issues, iOS won't get above 20% --- if it can even get that high; * Android will flatten out at between 20% and 25%. * Assuming RIM can satisfy the voyeurism that afflicts government agencies, it should hold steady at between 15% and 20%. * The other platforms will be holding their breath, wondering if their oxygen supply will extinguish them; jonathon I think there's another consideration here: security. What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the security of any document I may store on its server? What prevents the operator's employees or ex-employees accessing my documents? What prevents drive-by hackers accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting me accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting the service provider accessing my documents? Can I set passwords on my documents? I suppose I could encrypt my document but most people probably don't have this technology readily available (see below). What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the backing-up and subsequent recovery of any document I may store on its server? What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the availability of any document I may store on its server? A large part of the point of a portable app is that I can put the whole kit and caboodle on an encrypted device if I want. Even without going to such lengths, the security, availability and back-up/recovery is up to me, not up to some unknown company whose procedures I cannot trust (based on fairly recent history in many cases) whatever its policies may say. I agree -- security is definitely an issue. But it's always going to be an issue, with everything that's online. There's always going to be a host that has access to everything you upload. However, with an open-source web app, you get the options of: a) hosting the web app yourself, so that no third party has control over your files b) downloading the web app and running it offline In several cases, storing documents on a server outside the owner's country (or geographic region) could well be illegal. I'm not at all convinced that people and, more particularly, corporations, have really analysed the implications of web apps and cloud computing. When they do I
Re: [tdf-discuss] Who is Funding LibO?
ian.ly...@theingots.org wrote in message news:50053.212.71.174.123.1288050361.squir...@www.theingots.org... Would someone please explain where the money is coming from to fund LibO? Where is it expected to come from in the future, assuming Oracle will not join? There are a few possibilities. One is the certification project that we are currently working on. (Actually I have been working on it now for several years and we have all the infrastructure needed in place) We can apply for EU grants to get it going as did ECDL. They are making enough money to fund 10 times more developers than Sun or Oracle ever did. Then there is merchandising and other fund raising plus the usual volunteers. This also assumes that none of the other corporates help and currently some are employing contributing developers. If we can get out of the mindset of dependency on Oracle I think we have the possibility of raising more money than was ever available before and spending it more democratically and independently. The speed and extent will depend on community support. Errm. I was looking for something a little more definitive than There are a few possibilities. LibreOffice represents a major change of direction in the free office suite market. If, as looks increasingly likely, Oracle will not back it then the entire community must decide which path to follow. When I say entire community I explicitly include the users. Everyone, but possibly especially the user community, needs to be reassured as far as is possible that if they commit to LibreOffice they will be moving to a viable product and not just a flash in the pan which will die from lack of funds in six months or a year. For individual, private users the impact can be readily borne even though it would be a pain in the neck to switch again in a few months time. But for institutions, on which the success of the project depends, it would be a fairly major catastrophe. -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Send Messages via Gmane?
Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote in message news:4cbfd099.7050...@documentfoundation.org... Hi, Larry Gusaas wrote on 2010-10-19 21.09: The following is from http://gmane.org/post-details.php . Note the MAIL FROM envelope has to be someth...@gmane.org. It is currently the address that Gmane is subscribed to. I still don't get it - if I now whitelist *...@gmane.org for sending, this would open the door to anyone who forges the MAIL FROM to spam these lists. Are there any more detailed instructions, like filtering for incoming MX servers, signatures and the like, to ensure the message really comes from GMANE? Florian I think you'll find that *all* messages coming from Gmane have X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/; in the headers. See http://gmane.org/conv.php for details. -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Send Messages via Gmane?
Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote in message news:4cbfcdf9.4000...@documentfoundation.org... Hi, Charles Marcus wrote on 2010-10-20 19.44: Bummer... my point is that non-subbed posters should simply be sent a REJECT message with instructions on how to subscribe - or better, a nice instructive web page with detailed instructions on the lists, and a subscribe option directly on the web page. Imho, it is a huge waste of time and resources to try to deal with moderating non-subbed posts/posters. that would widely open the door for spamming, and backscatter stuff, effectively leading to very soonish blacklisting of our machine. Florian Never happened to the OOo users@ list. -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Supporting customers (ordinary users)
Sebastian Spaeth sebast...@sspaeth.de wrote in message news:87tykgrn1e@sspaeth.de... On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:40:31 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: I am appalled at the level of hostility and contempt being expressed by a few people regarding the support of ordinary users -- our customers. While I agree that organizing good user support is important, I feel that most of the discussions going on fall into the category bike-shedding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikeshed) rather than being I'm not sure that the analogy you draw between the bikeshed concept and the debate in these threads is valid. We aren't mainly discussing the colour of the bikeshed (although there is some of that I admit). Instead we're trying to discuss whether to build a bikeshed or a multi-storey carpark. It started with the carpark but then a few people said hey, wait a minute there are more cyclists out there and they are more in need of shelter to which the carparkers said well they can use the carpark too and the reply came back no, the ramp is too steep for them to cycle up and then we had well, they can *^%$ well carry their bikes up the ramp, I despise people who can't carry their own bike. So now I think we've agreed to build a bike shed. Trouble is we have nails and screwdrivers instead of either nails and hammers or screws and screwdrivers. very productive or constructive. I have to admit I have fallen into that trap too and replied more often than I should have, but if you look at the amount of energy spent on discussing the email-list implementation specifics or things relating to gmane. Heck, do we really think a user not willing to subscribe to a list would ever use gmane to post a question? Please keep the high-level discussions here, and create a wiki page for each specific topic, such as the preferred mailing list options and go wild there so that people knowledgable and interested can work that out as an expert group. This list has become way too active and way too uninteresting for me to wanting to follow it any longer. And that is a bad sign. Sebastian P.S. Sorry for replying to this mail, I did not mean to pick someone out, this is just a general impression. P.P.S. Will shut up now. -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Adoption of LibreOffice
There's an interesting article about OpenOffice 3.3 beta in Computer Weekly (the world's first weekly computer magazine) this week. It's at http://www.computerweekly.com/galleries/243287-1/First-look-at-OpenOffice-beta.htm. It's 10 short comments each accompanied by a photo. The 5th slide has a link to http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Major_OpenOffice.org_Deployments which, as the blurb there says This page will track public information on major OpenOffice.org deployments. Perhaps LibreOffice should follow suit??? Is the TDF attempting to have LibO supersede OOo in any/all of those places? Will it? The blurb referred to above also says This page does not track ODF legislation or deployments. See the ODF adoption page on OpenDocument XML.org for that. Should the TDF pages link to those also? Or perhaps they already do, from somewhere I haven't found??? -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] unsubscribed posters
Barbara Duprey b...@onr.com wrote in message news:4cc0ba20.70...@onr.com... On 10/20/2010 11:50 PM, Drew Jensen wrote: snip Every web forum I know of send notification email to the original poster whenever a response is posted to a thread they created. Well now, that's *very* interesting! I clearly haven't used forums in too long, I've never seen this. It still doesn't help with a forum analog of this conversation, though, since I didn't originate this thread. With that in mind there is no real difference between traditional mail lists and web forums for the majority of end user support questions. snip In the web forums I've used it has *not* been the default. In other words I've had to remember to tick the box to get automatic mail notifications. But that's a once-only thing as far as *my* questions are concerned; you do it when you register. I don't *know* but I suppose it could be set as the default behaviour when the forum is initially established. In a different thread I suggested that registering LibreOffice automatically registers you for the Forum and, in addition, a Support button on LibO's toolbar takes the registered user directly to that forum with the automatically send me e-mail answers option pre-set. If the user didn't register LibO then that Support button simply displays text about registering and getting support. -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Send Messages via Gmane?
Harold Fuchs hwfa.libreoff...@gmail.com wrote in message news:i9m7k5$ut...@dough.gmane.org... Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.com wrote in message news:i9lgl4$a5...@dough.gmane.org... On 2010/10/19 4:27 PM Jon Hamkins wrote: On 10/19/2010 10:55 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote: Wrong. The purpose of gmane is to receive and write messages with a newsreader rather than an email client. Oh, please. 1. This purpose is *also* not defeated by having to be subscribed to the mailing list. Gmane states on http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discus: Statusposting allowed. There should not be a need to nor is the requirement stated that you need to subscribe to the mailing list as well. Someone going to that page may decide to post to this list through Gmane. They reply to the confirmation message they receive from Gmane but their post never appears on the group. What is there opinion going to be of LibreOffice then? 2. Gmane offers more than NNTP, it has a web interface too. Yes it does. Your original statement was The purpose is to be able to read and write messages on a web forum. You said nothing about NNTP The first method mentioned for reading the archive is *on the web*. Whether one chooses to read from the web or as a newsgroup via NNTP is beside the point. The primary purpose of Gmane is to make email lists available through NNTP. See http://gmane.org/about.php This is what Gmane offers. Mailing lists are funneled into news groups. This isn't a new idea; several mail-to-news gateways exist. What's new with Gmane is that no messages are ever expired from the server, and the gateway is bidirectional In fact, for many people, if they read via NNTP, they are still using their mail client. Thunderbird, Outlook Express, etc. are mail clients that have built-in newsreading capabilities (and RSS for that matter). I use a newsgroup reader. The fact that Thunderbird is also an email client is irrelevant. If this message gets through then I think I've found what seems to be the only way, at the moment at least, to read *and* write the TDF lists via Gmane using an (NNTP) News reader: 1. Subscribe an e-mail address of your choice to the nomail version of the TDF list. You do this by sending an e-mail to xxx+subscribe-nom...@documentfoundation.org where xxx is the name of the lists - users, discuss, announce, whatever. As usual, you will get back a confirmation request to which you must reply. 2. Subscribe the same e-mail address to your Gmane news account. As I say, if this gets through then the above works. I'm going to wait and see if it does get through before commenting further. -- Harold Fuchs London, England I said I'd comment further if the above got through. It did, so ... The following is verbatim from the Gmane page on Posting (go to www.gmane.com and click the link Posting on the left hand side): begin quote === Read-only groups Some groups are read-only. These are typically groups for announcements, publication or CVS log messages. Other groups are non-public. These are mailing lists that don't accept messages from non-subscribers. If you try to post to either of these kinds of groups, you'll get a bounce message from Gmane informing you of this. Some non-public mailing lists allow you to subscribe, and then alter the status of the subscription so that it doesn't actually send you any mail. You can then read the group via Gmane, and post to the list manually -- by sending mail directly to the mailing list. If, however, the group is neither read-only nor non-public, Gmane will forward the message to the mailing list (after going through the authorization process described above). The message still might not be accepted by the mailing list. This is usually because the list really is non-public, but isn't marked as such in Gmane. If this happens to you, please send a short mail stating which group is affected to the Gmane administrators, and we'll fix the configuration. === end quote === The first paragraph: Other groups are non-public. These are mailing lists that don't accept messages from non-subscribers. is where I think the problem lies. The TDF lists seem to have been set up as non-public which means you can't post from an unsubscribed address. This is why the combination of nomail and using the same e-mail address for the list and for the Gmane account works. It's a nuisance because it probably means having to use a special Gmane account (one with a TDF based address). On the other hand it overcomes the perennial problem we faced with OOo lists where unsubscribed posters were allowed to post. ***I don't know if not allowing non-subscribers to post to TDF lists was intentional or not*** perhaps someone involved in their set-up would comment. I have another proposal: 1. Put a Support button on the LibO toolbar. 2. If the user has not registered LibO, the Support button
Re: [tdf-discuss] Send Messages via Gmane?
Charles Marcus wrote: snip I'm sorry, but I don't have any sympathy with someone who wants free help, but isn't willing to do the bare minimum of subscribing to an email list in order to get it. Errm. It's not just the subscribing. In addition that poor user who only wants one question answered is going to get several hundred messages per month. Here are the stats for this year: Oct 2010 396 Sep 2010 632 Aug 2010 632 Jul 2010 661 Jun 2010 734 May 2010 615 Apr 2010 472 Mar 2010 706 Feb 2010 879 Jan 2010 1000 IMHO that's a high price to pay for free support. Why not let people post questions [to the users@ list or to the forum, I don't care] via a button on the LibO toolbar, with responses [or a message containing a link to a response] to that question *only* by e-mail to the user's nominated address? -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Send Messages via Gmane?
Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2010/10/20 11:40 AM Charles Marcus wrote: On 2010-10-20 12:32 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote: Gmane has most of the Document Foundations lists (except developer and announce) set as public. If you subscribe to this list through gmane the message will be sent but will not get posted to the list. No bounce message will be sent to the poster. The new user will wonder what happened to their message and blame the project. Imagine this is on the user list with a newcomer trying to get help. They likely will get rid of LibreOffice if they perceive that they can't get help. Very unprofessional. So someone just needs to get the list changed to non-public... :) Or allow posts to this list from people who have subscribe through Gmane to be posted to the list without having to double subscribe. I don't believe that's sufficient. The majority of the unskilled questioners won't know about news Groups or Gmane. They *might* be persuaded to subscribe to a forum but ungated e-mail would be the best if we can find a way whereby responders don't have to go through hoops to ensure their replies get to the OP. Can the Reply-to header not be fixed (by the list manager software or by an associated script) to include the OP if that OP is not subscribed? -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Send Messages via Gmane?
When will it be possible to send messages to the TDF mail lists via Gmane *without* having to be subscribed to the mail lists themselves? Currently, to use Gmane you need to be subscribed to both it *and* the TDF lists which completely defeats the purpose of the Gmane interface. NB Gmane already insists that you can't send messages via it without being subscribed to it. This instantly kills the spam prevention argument that I have seen put forward. -- Harold Fuchs London, England Please do *not* reply to my personal e-mail address -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Send Messages via Gmane?
On 19 October 2010 13:37, Charles Marcus cmar...@media-brokers.com wrote: On 2010-10-19 3:52 AM, Harold Fuchs wrote: When will it be possible to send messages to the TDF mail lists via Gmane *without* having to be subscribed to the mail lists themselves? Currently, to use Gmane you need to be subscribed to both it *and* the TDF lists which completely defeats the purpose of the Gmane interface. Was it you that complained about this before? All you have to do is subscribe to the NOMAIL version of the list, this way you are a member and can post, but do not get emails from the list - so it does NOT defeat the purpose. But... yes, absolutely, this should be documented... Here's the reply I got after sending a help request (which *is* documented at least): Hello, The following options are available: To unsubscribe send a message to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bunsubscr...@documentfoundation.org To unsubscribe from the digest of this list send a message to: discuss+unsubscribe-dig...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bunsubscribe-dig...@documentfoundation.org To unsubscribe from the nomail version this list send a message to: discuss+unsubscribe-nom...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bunsubscribe-nom...@documentfoundation.org To subscribe to the digest of this list send a message to: discuss+subscribe-dig...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bsubscribe-dig...@documentfoundation.org To subscribe to the nomail version of this list send a message to: discuss+subscribe-nom...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bsubscribe-nom...@documentfoundation.org The nomail version of a list means that you are reccognized as a subscriber, but will not get any messages to the list. This is useful when it's necessary to post from several emailaddresses to a subscribers only list. For retrieval of message number N in the archive send a message to discuss+ge...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bge...@documentfoundation.org To contact the list owner, send a message to: discuss+ow...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bow...@documentfoundation.org -- Best regards, Charles Thank you. I've never heard of a nomail option. -- Harold Fuchs London, England Please do *not* reply to my personal e-mail address -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Donations ?
On 13 October 2010 14:54, Drew Jensen d...@baseanswers.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-10-13 at 22:31 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: On Tue, 2010-10-12 at 23:27 +0200, elcico2001 wrote: Maybe it's a little early but... I would suggest, as I already said to Italo Vignoli, a page on the website to show a TDF annual financial report, like, for example, wikimedia: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Finance_report I think transparency is a good way to show TDF is working well... and, in my opinion, it also invites people to donate more money. Namaste :) +1 I have been asking for this from the OpenOffice.org community council for many years, with no results. I don't like to give money if I don't know where it's going. I hope The Document Foundation will do better. I don't expect auditing, but I do expect some basic accounting. Here is an example, from the group that handles the money raised for OOoAuthors from sales of printed copies of the OOo user guides: http://www.friendsofopendocument.com/newsite/?page_id=181 HI, Well I a bit lost here, doesn't http://www.ooodev.org/ have to do this, as a matter of law? Drew Is the difference that by law the financials must be submitted to the relevant [government] authority but not necessarily published on the web? It's the latter that is being requested, I think. -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
[tdf-discuss] Support For LibreOffice?
Perhaps I've missed a thread somewhere but how do users of LibreOffice get technical support? I noticed that someone called Sam (i...@libreofficeforum.org) set up a forum at http://libreofficeforum.org/ but is that the way? -- Harold Fuchs London, England Please do *not* reply to my personal e-mail address -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [WEB] interim mailing list structuring - a proposal
On 2 October 2010 07:52, Dr. Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.atwrote: Hi Caio, all Caio wrote: Bernhard Dippold, 01-10-2010 18:20: Hi all, we'll have to wait some more days until the structure of our community here will be able to handle the amount of topics and ideas in a more appropriate way with new mailing lists, a wiki and other means to divide different interests on several groups. Until then I propose to add some tags to the subject of your mails in order to identify them more easily (and to filter them in your mail client). [...] [DEVELOPERS] discussions/proposals about *coding* and building +1 Even if I read some mails here pointing to a different mailing list: libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org As this list will be the starting point for most new contributors at the moment, we should add this tag. IMHO I don't think we need a list for the sole purpose of discussing the mailing list structure. That could be website or general. I thought about the wished for addtional native-lang mailing lists. But they can categorized under [N-L] Another point I didn' t mention before: Please start a new thread with any new topic and add a short description to the subject. And I'd like to shorten the tag names in order to reduce the length of the subjects. Documentation - [DOC] Native-Lang -[N-L] I18N is standard for Internationalisation Developers- [DEV] website -[WEB] others should stay: Bugs -[BUGS] new features -[FEATURES] localization -[L10N] marketing -[MARKETING] MKTG is a fairly standard English abbreviation of MARKETING other topics -[GENERAL] GEN is a fairly Best regards Bernhard PS: Add other important tags to this list please... -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bunsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ -- Harold Fuchs London, England Please do *not* reply to my personal e-mail address -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
