[tdf-discuss] Competition in the EU regarding pre-installed Windows
FFII and the AFUL (two free-software associations) have started a crowd-sourcing effort to provide information to the European Commission Competition agency about the lack of choice for the consumers when it comes to computers and compulsory pre-installed Windows. Original press-releases: http://press.ffii.org/Press%20releases/Share%20your%20operating%20system%20bundling%20tales%20with%20the%20EU http://aful.org/communiques/share-your-operating-system-bundling-tales-with-the-eu Here is my take to simplify the message, http://simos.info/blog/archives/1198 How is this relevant to LibreOffice? The source of the problem is the bundling of Microsoft Windows to the new computers. The manufacturers get discounts for the licenses if they support only Windows, if they promote only Windows on their websites and ads, and so on. If this relationship weakens, we may see a chance for LibreOffice on new computers, or Linux computers that obviously have LibreOffice. tl;dr: Visit http://ec.europa.eu/competition/forms/consumer_form_en.html to report cases where you could not buy a computer without Windows, while you had not need for Windows. Simos -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
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Hi, I am out of office till 27th April, 2011 Call me if it is an urgent issue. (Mob: +91 9886 46 3370) Ciao and regards TG -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Competition in the EU regarding pre-installed Windows
Hi, I am out of office till 27th April, 2011 I now added a filter for Auto Reply: in the subject for discuss@. Will implement this for other lists later on. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Competition in the EU regarding pre-installed Windows
2011/4/22 Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com FFII and the AFUL (two free-software associations) have started a crowd-sourcing effort to provide information to the European Commission Competition agency about the lack of choice for the consumers when it comes to computers and compulsory pre-installed Windows. Original press-releases: http://press.ffii.org/Press%20releases/Share%20your%20operating%20system%20bundling%20tales%20with%20the%20EU http://aful.org/communiques/share-your-operating-system-bundling-tales-with-the-eu Here is my take to simplify the message, http://simos.info/blog/archives/1198 How is this relevant to LibreOffice? The source of the problem is the bundling of Microsoft Windows to the new computers. The manufacturers get discounts for the licenses if they support only Windows, if they promote only Windows on their websites and ads, and so on. If this relationship weakens, we may see a chance for LibreOffice on new computers, or Linux computers that obviously have LibreOffice. tl;dr: Visit http://ec.europa.eu/competition/forms/consumer_form_en.html to report cases where you could not buy a computer without Windows, while you had not need for Windows. Simos «If this relationship weakens, we may see a chance for LibreOffice on new computers, or Linux computers that obviously have LibreOffice.» 'tis a consummation. Devoutly to be wished. But somehow I find it difficult to envisage either Joaquín Almunia eller Alexander Italianer going that far Henri -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Competition in the EU regarding pre-installed Windows
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 2:03 PM, M Henri Day mhenri...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/4/22 Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com FFII and the AFUL (two free-software associations) have started a crowd-sourcing effort to provide information to the European Commission Competition agency about the lack of choice for the consumers when it comes to computers and compulsory pre-installed Windows. Original press-releases: http://press.ffii.org/Press%20releases/Share%20your%20operating%20system%20bundling%20tales%20with%20the%20EU http://aful.org/communiques/share-your-operating-system-bundling-tales-with-the-eu Here is my take to simplify the message, http://simos.info/blog/archives/1198 How is this relevant to LibreOffice? The source of the problem is the bundling of Microsoft Windows to the new computers. The manufacturers get discounts for the licenses if they support only Windows, if they promote only Windows on their websites and ads, and so on. If this relationship weakens, we may see a chance for LibreOffice on new computers, or Linux computers that obviously have LibreOffice. tl;dr: Visit http://ec.europa.eu/competition/forms/consumer_form_en.html to report cases where you could not buy a computer without Windows, while you had not need for Windows. Simos «If this relationship weakens, we may see a chance for LibreOffice on new computers, or Linux computers that obviously have LibreOffice.» 'tis a consummation. Devoutly to be wished. But somehow I find it difficult to envisage either Joaquín Almunia eller Alexander Italianer going that far I do not understand the comment. What we do is report to the EU the cases we know, where we were forced to buy a computer with pre-installed Windows, although we did not need Windows (either we use Linux or we already had a Windows license). It's up to the Competition agency of the European Commission to take appropriate action. That's their job. Our job, and the initiative from the FFII and AFUL, is to report cases to the EC Competition agency. Simos -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Competition in the EU regarding pre-installed Windows
2011/4/22 Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 2:03 PM, M Henri Day mhenri...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/4/22 Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com FFII and the AFUL (two free-software associations) have started a crowd-sourcing effort to provide information to the European Commission Competition agency about the lack of choice for the consumers when it comes to computers and compulsory pre-installed Windows. Original press-releases: http://press.ffii.org/Press%20releases/Share%20your%20operating%20system%20bundling%20tales%20with%20the%20EU http://aful.org/communiques/share-your-operating-system-bundling-tales-with-the-eu Here is my take to simplify the message, http://simos.info/blog/archives/1198 How is this relevant to LibreOffice? The source of the problem is the bundling of Microsoft Windows to the new computers. The manufacturers get discounts for the licenses if they support only Windows, if they promote only Windows on their websites and ads, and so on. If this relationship weakens, we may see a chance for LibreOffice on new computers, or Linux computers that obviously have LibreOffice. tl;dr: Visit http://ec.europa.eu/competition/forms/consumer_form_en.html to report cases where you could not buy a computer without Windows, while you had not need for Windows. Simos «If this relationship weakens, we may see a chance for LibreOffice on new computers, or Linux computers that obviously have LibreOffice.» 'tis a consummation. Devoutly to be wished. But somehow I find it difficult to envisage either Joaquín Almunia eller Alexander Italianer going that far I do not understand the comment. What we do is report to the EU the cases we know, where we were forced to buy a computer with pre-installed Windows, although we did not need Windows (either we use Linux or we already had a Windows license). It's up to the Competition agency of the European Commission to take appropriate action. That's their job. Our job, and the initiative from the FFII and AFUL, is to report cases to the EC Competition agency. Simos Just pointing out, Simos, that I don't share what seems to be your confidence in the ability - or for that matter, the intention - of the Competition Agency to do what we both agree is its job Henri -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Competition in the EU regarding pre-installed Windows
On 2011-04-22 6:16 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote: I now added a filter for Auto Reply: in the subject for discuss@. Will implement this for other lists later on. Actually, you shouldn't filter these, you should PERMANENTLY BAN these users of broken auto-responders from list participation. Also, please add 'out of office' to the search term list... -- Best regards, Charles -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Competition in the EU regarding pre-installed Windows
Strongly agree with you Charles +1 On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 11:41 PM, Charles Marcus cmar...@media-brokers.comwrote: On 2011-04-22 6:16 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote: I now added a filter for Auto Reply: in the subject for discuss@. Will implement this for other lists later on. Actually, you shouldn't filter these, you should PERMANENTLY BAN these users of broken auto-responders from list participation. Also, please add 'out of office' to the search term list... -- Best regards, Charles -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Competition in the EU regarding pre-installed Windows
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:36 PM, M Henri Day mhenri...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/4/22 Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 2:03 PM, M Henri Day mhenri...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/4/22 Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com FFII and the AFUL (two free-software associations) have started a crowd-sourcing effort to provide information to the European Commission Competition agency about the lack of choice for the consumers when it comes to computers and compulsory pre-installed Windows. Original press-releases: http://press.ffii.org/Press%20releases/Share%20your%20operating%20system%20bundling%20tales%20with%20the%20EU http://aful.org/communiques/share-your-operating-system-bundling-tales-with-the-eu Here is my take to simplify the message, http://simos.info/blog/archives/1198 How is this relevant to LibreOffice? The source of the problem is the bundling of Microsoft Windows to the new computers. The manufacturers get discounts for the licenses if they support only Windows, if they promote only Windows on their websites and ads, and so on. If this relationship weakens, we may see a chance for LibreOffice on new computers, or Linux computers that obviously have LibreOffice. tl;dr: Visit http://ec.europa.eu/competition/forms/consumer_form_en.html to report cases where you could not buy a computer without Windows, while you had not need for Windows. Simos «If this relationship weakens, we may see a chance for LibreOffice on new computers, or Linux computers that obviously have LibreOffice.» 'tis a consummation. Devoutly to be wished. But somehow I find it difficult to envisage either Joaquín Almunia eller Alexander Italianer going that far I do not understand the comment. What we do is report to the EU the cases we know, where we were forced to buy a computer with pre-installed Windows, although we did not need Windows (either we use Linux or we already had a Windows license). It's up to the Competition agency of the European Commission to take appropriate action. That's their job. Our job, and the initiative from the FFII and AFUL, is to report cases to the EC Competition agency. Simos Just pointing out, Simos, that I don't share what seems to be your confidence in the ability - or for that matter, the intention - of the Competition Agency to do what we both agree is its job Well, you have to substantiate this claim, otherwise it appears that you are trying (unintentionally) to derail this discussion. We know that government agencies might be slow to react, but the way you are phrasing your view is that the Competition agency will simply not examine and discard any report. Simos -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Competition in the EU regarding pre-installed Windows
2011/4/22 Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:36 PM, M Henri Day mhenri...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/4/22 Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 2:03 PM, M Henri Day mhenri...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/4/22 Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com FFII and the AFUL (two free-software associations) have started a crowd-sourcing effort to provide information to the European Commission Competition agency about the lack of choice for the consumers when it comes to computers and compulsory pre-installed Windows. Original press-releases: http://press.ffii.org/Press%20releases/Share%20your%20operating%20system%20bundling%20tales%20with%20the%20EU http://aful.org/communiques/share-your-operating-system-bundling-tales-with-the-eu Here is my take to simplify the message, http://simos.info/blog/archives/1198 How is this relevant to LibreOffice? The source of the problem is the bundling of Microsoft Windows to the new computers. The manufacturers get discounts for the licenses if they support only Windows, if they promote only Windows on their websites and ads, and so on. If this relationship weakens, we may see a chance for LibreOffice on new computers, or Linux computers that obviously have LibreOffice. tl;dr: Visit http://ec.europa.eu/competition/forms/consumer_form_en.html to report cases where you could not buy a computer without Windows, while you had not need for Windows. Simos «If this relationship weakens, we may see a chance for LibreOffice on new computers, or Linux computers that obviously have LibreOffice.» 'tis a consummation. Devoutly to be wished. But somehow I find it difficult to envisage either Joaquín Almunia eller Alexander Italianer going that far I do not understand the comment. What we do is report to the EU the cases we know, where we were forced to buy a computer with pre-installed Windows, although we did not need Windows (either we use Linux or we already had a Windows license). It's up to the Competition agency of the European Commission to take appropriate action. That's their job. Our job, and the initiative from the FFII and AFUL, is to report cases to the EC Competition agency. Simos Just pointing out, Simos, that I don't share what seems to be your confidence in the ability - or for that matter, the intention - of the Competition Agency to do what we both agree is its job Well, you have to substantiate this claim, otherwise it appears that you are trying (unintentionally) to derail this discussion. We know that government agencies might be slow to react, but the way you are phrasing your view is that the Competition agency will simply not examine and discard any report. Simos «[D]erailing» strikes me as a bit harsh, Simos - and surely views as to the possible success of a suggested measure are relevant to this discussion ? Just what is that you suggest I substantiate - my lack of confidence in the ability or intentions of the EC Competition Agency (especially now that Neelie Kroes has been assigned other duties) ? Without personal knowledge of the commissioner and the agency head concerned - which, presumably, you lack as much as I - the only manner in which our differing views on the matter can be tested is by waiting to see whether, in fact, the Competition Agency does move to address the problem of the quasi monopoly held by Windows in desktop OSs. I very much hope that you are right and that I am wrong, but my experience with the EU Commission and the agencies it governs is that pessimism is usually warranted. In any event, just so that you know where I stand on this matter, I reproduce here a comment I published in the Reg on 20100106 : Here in Sweden, computer users who are not unusually computer savvy have no effective choice of operating system - in the event they haven't heard of Mac - none of the major electronic outlets selling computers to the general public ever mention that there are, in fact, alternatives to Windows OS. Smaller shops devoted to a more technically literate clientèle where one can purchase computers without an OS or have one installed according to one's needs do indeed exist, but generally speaking, users in this country are faced with a monopoly and are forced to pay the inevitable monopoly tax that accompanies one. It was heartening to see the European Commission take on Microsoft over the issue of bundling Internet Explorer with Windows OS, but it must be admitted that by the time the agreement with Microsoft forcing the company to make users aware that a choice of browser was indeed possible was reached, Firefox had already broken open the bundle. I'd very much like to see the European Commission require purveyors of computers in Europe to inform customers that a plethora of operating
