Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
Hello Russ, Le lundi 22 avril 2013 à 17:40 -0700, Upscope a écrit : Quote I remember seeing a discussion about the White Paper, and I hope that translations to other languages will be done. That will help a lot. Here in Canada, the Quebec government is about to spend 1.4 billion $ to upgrade 500,000 desktops from MSO 2003 to MSO 2013. This is only the provincial public service and does not include municipal/city-level public service with approx another 300,000. The original intent of my message (sorry if I used the wrong mailing list) was to make a blog post to say that we as a community are aware of the end-of-life for MSO 2003 that is less than a year away, and here are some reasons why you should make the switch. Yes, the formats are not perfect, and yes the license is free. But most important, LibreOffice has 99% (?) of the same functionalities of MSO and answers the need of 99% (?) of end-users, either individuals or business. I have to disagree with the above statement. There are still significant problems with .docx documents in writer. All text type documents work, but recieve something with grapic in it and the conversion does not work correctly. i reports this way back on 3.x and 4.0. Still not fixed in 4.0.2. It occurs both in the openSUSE branded version and the version direct from LibreOffice. If everybody is going to be abadoning .doc this needs to be fixed. I final may have found when it occurs today and will report it. (has to do with text wraping around the graphic). Don't get me wrong I use LibreOfiice exclusively and like it. And to let you know alot of the .docx documents I get are from B.C. I'm in Washinton, close neighor to them. I think it's important to clarify Italo's comment. We don't just think that since we know it will never be perfect, we don't work on the OOXML filters. Actually there's been some massive work done on them, and it is an ever ongoing work. But it is also important to realize that OOXML is a highly complex format that we have to reimplement (the spec helps, but there's much more to it) and therefore it takes a long time to get it right. Note that one outcome of this is that we get better with time (today, the MS Office formats from MS Office 97, 2000 or 2003 really work well) and another factor to take into account is how the users of both LibreOffice and MS Office actually use the software. Someone typing only bold letters for the title or paragraph headers is not going to get the best result regardless of the suite he/she uses. best, Charles. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 11:11:11 AM Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Hello Russ, Le lundi 22 avril 2013 à 17:40 -0700, Upscope a écrit : Quote I remember seeing a discussion about the White Paper, and I hope that translations to other languages will be done. That will help a lot. Here in Canada, the Quebec government is about to spend 1.4 billion $ to upgrade 500,000 desktops from MSO 2003 to MSO 2013. This is only the provincial public service and does not include municipal/city-level public service with approx another 300,000. The original intent of my message (sorry if I used the wrong mailing list) was to make a blog post to say that we as a community are aware of the end-of-life for MSO 2003 that is less than a year away, and here are some reasons why you should make the switch. Yes, the formats are not perfect, and yes the license is free. But most important, LibreOffice has 99% (?) of the same functionalities of MSO and answers the need of 99% (?) of end-users, either individuals or business. I have to disagree with the above statement. There are still significant problems with .docx documents in writer. All text type documents work, but recieve something with grapic in it and the conversion does not work correctly. i reports this way back on 3.x and 4.0. Still not fixed in 4.0.2. It occurs both in the openSUSE branded version and the version direct from LibreOffice. If everybody is going to be abadoning .doc this needs to be fixed. I final may have found when it occurs today and will report it. (has to do with text wraping around the graphic). Don't get me wrong I use LibreOfiice exclusively and like it. And to let you know alot of the .docx documents I get are from B.C. I'm in Washinton, close neighor to them. I think it's important to clarify Italo's comment. We don't just think that since we know it will never be perfect, we don't work on the OOXML filters. Actually there's been some massive work done on them, and it is an ever ongoing work. But it is also important to realize that OOXML is a highly complex format that we have to reimplement (the spec helps, but there's much more to it) and therefore it takes a long time to get it right. Note that one outcome of this is that we get better with time (today, the MS Office formats from MS Office 97, 2000 or 2003 really work well) and another factor to take into account is how the users of both LibreOffice and MS Office actually use the software. Someone typing only bold letters for the title or paragraph headers is not going to get the best result regardless of the suite he/she uses. best, Charles. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted I understand what you say but until I can open a newletter written on MS .docx and have the text and graphics be readable, it not the perfect solution. I have found if I turn off wrap tex all the graphics then appear correctly but the doc. text format is incorect (text is all there, just looses formatting). I have had no problems converting .docx text only documents to LO. I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the author agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will help. Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until it works. -- openSUSE 12.3(Linux 3.7.10-1.1-desktop x86_64)|KDE 4.10.2 release 553|Intel core2duo 2.5 MHZ,|8GB DDR3|GeForce 8400GS(NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-310.32) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
Hi upscope upscope wrote I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the author agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will help. Of course it helps! Please submit the document and any problems you find https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice upscope wrote Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until it works. Don't just wait for a version to work for you. Submitting the bugs, documents, problems you find will increase the *chances* that your problems are fixed... Although submitting bugs/documents is no guarantee that any developer will look at them or fix them, NOT submitting is our worst possible option :) Cheers, Pedro -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/End-of-Life-support-for-MSO-2003-countdown-tp4050964p4051842.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
Le mardi 23 avril 2013 à 07:42 -0700, Pedro a écrit : Hi upscope upscope wrote I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the author agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will help. Of course it helps! Please submit the document and any problems you find https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice upscope wrote Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until it works. Don't just wait for a version to work for you. Submitting the bugs, documents, problems you find will increase the *chances* that your problems are fixed... Although submitting bugs/documents is no guarantee that any developer will look at them or fix them, NOT submitting is our worst possible option :) I have to concur with Pedro. Indeed, if you can it is best to submit a bug report containing the document itself and run some easy but preliminary tests: do the formatting problem remain the same with the platform (i.e mac, windows, linux... different versions of Windows?), etc. best, -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-Founder Director, The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 05:23:46 PM Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Le mardi 23 avril 2013 à 07:42 -0700, Pedro a écrit : Hi upscope upscope wrote I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the author agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will help. Of course it helps! Please submit the document and any problems you find https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice upscope wrote Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until it works. Don't just wait for a version to work for you. Submitting the bugs, documents, problems you find will increase the *chances* that your problems are fixed... Although submitting bugs/documents is no guarantee that any developer will look at them or fix them, NOT submitting is our worst possible option :) I have to concur with Pedro. Indeed, if you can it is best to submit a bug report containing the document itself and run some easy but preliminary tests: do the formatting problem remain the same with the platform (i.e mac, windows, linux... different versions of Windows?), etc. best, -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-Founder Director, The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted Search for my old bug report did not find it but did find another one that I submitted at the time, was against version 3.6.5. I submitted a new bug on this even thought there are acouple hundred bus in a search for .docx. several were sinular. I also attached the document I am having trouble with now. [CODE] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63851 [/CODE] Can not do any test against Mac or Windows since I am exclusively Linux. i could install XP in VirtualBOx with Office 2003 but I don't think it will open .docx documents. Thanks for your replies. Russ -- openSUSE 12.3(Linux 3.7.10-1.1-desktop x86_64)|KDE 4.10.2 release 556|Intel core2duo 2.5 MHZ,|8GB DDR3|GeForce 8400GS(NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-310.32) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
Russ .docx was 2007 onwards. What can i help with on mac? On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Upscope upsc...@nwi.net wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 05:23:46 PM Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Le mardi 23 avril 2013 à 07:42 -0700, Pedro a écrit : Hi upscope upscope wrote I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the author agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will help. Of course it helps! Please submit the document and any problems you find https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice upscope wrote Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until it works. Don't just wait for a version to work for you. Submitting the bugs, documents, problems you find will increase the *chances* that your problems are fixed... Although submitting bugs/documents is no guarantee that any developer will look at them or fix them, NOT submitting is our worst possible option :) I have to concur with Pedro. Indeed, if you can it is best to submit a bug report containing the document itself and run some easy but preliminary tests: do the formatting problem remain the same with the platform (i.e mac, windows, linux... different versions of Windows?), etc. best, -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-Founder Director, The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted Search for my old bug report did not find it but did find another one that I submitted at the time, was against version 3.6.5. I submitted a new bug on this even thought there are acouple hundred bus in a search for .docx. several were sinular. I also attached the document I am having trouble with now. [CODE] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63851 [/CODE] Can not do any test against Mac or Windows since I am exclusively Linux. i could install XP in VirtualBOx with Office 2003 but I don't think it will open .docx documents. Thanks for your replies. Russ -- openSUSE 12.3(Linux 3.7.10-1.1-desktop x86_64)|KDE 4.10.2 release 556|Intel core2duo 2.5 MHZ,|8GB DDR3|GeForce 8400GS(NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-310.32) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
On 2013-04-24 05:22, Upscope wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 05:23:46 PM Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Le mardi 23 avril 2013 à 07:42 -0700, Pedro a écrit : Hi upscope upscope wrote I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the author agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will help. Of course it helps! Please submit the document and any problems you find https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice upscope wrote Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until it works. Don't just wait for a version to work for you. Submitting the bugs, documents, problems you find will increase the *chances* that your problems are fixed... Although submitting bugs/documents is no guarantee that any developer will look at them or fix them, NOT submitting is our worst possible option :) I have to concur with Pedro. Indeed, if you can it is best to submit a bug report containing the document itself and run some easy but preliminary tests: do the formatting problem remain the same with the platform (i.e mac, windows, linux... different versions of Windows?), etc. best, -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-Founder Director, The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted Search for my old bug report did not find it but did find another one that I submitted at the time, was against version 3.6.5. I submitted a new bug on this even thought there are acouple hundred bus in a search for .docx. several were sinular. I also attached the document I am having trouble with now. [CODE] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63851 [/CODE] Can not do any test against Mac or Windows since I am exclusively Linux. i could install XP in VirtualBOx with Office 2003 but I don't think it will open .docx documents. Thanks for your replies. Russ Hi. I see the uploaded file is type text. I can save as a docx file and open it but just clicking the link opens the file as plain text. And yes, it is a mess like many I open. Steve -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 09:43:09 PM Jonathan Aquilina wrote: Russ .docx was 2007 onwards. What can i help with on mac? Yes I was aware of that. If you are using LO writer, see if the document attached to the bug report opens displays the full graphic and text. There are graphics on almost all pages and some open completely but not in write location, some only partically open, etc. attachment show be on this bug report. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63851 Russ On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Upscope upsc...@nwi.net wrote: On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 05:23:46 PM Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Le mardi 23 avril 2013 à 07:42 -0700, Pedro a écrit : Hi upscope upscope wrote I will be glad to supply the document if it would help, and the author agrees (should be no problem). Let me know if that will help. Of course it helps! Please submit the document and any problems you find https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice upscope wrote Thanks for your interest and I'll keep testing new version until it works. Don't just wait for a version to work for you. Submitting the bugs, documents, problems you find will increase the *chances* that your problems are fixed... Although submitting bugs/documents is no guarantee that any developer will look at them or fix them, NOT submitting is our worst possible option :) I have to concur with Pedro. Indeed, if you can it is best to submit a bug report containing the document itself and run some easy but preliminary tests: do the formatting problem remain the same with the platform (i.e mac, windows, linux... different versions of Windows?), etc. best, -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-Founder Director, The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscri be/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted Search for my old bug report did not find it but did find another one that I submitted at the time, was against version 3.6.5. I submitted a new bug on this even thought there are acouple hundred bus in a search for .docx. several were sinular. I also attached the document I am having trouble with now. [CODE] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63851 [/CODE] Can not do any test against Mac or Windows since I am exclusively Linux. i could install XP in VirtualBOx with Office 2003 but I don't think it will open .docx documents. Thanks for your replies. Russ -- openSUSE 12.3(Linux 3.7.10-1.1-desktop x86_64)|KDE 4.10.2 release 556|Intel core2duo 2.5 MHZ,|8GB DDR3|GeForce 8400GS(NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-310.32) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe / Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- openSUSE 12.3(Linux 3.7.10-1.1-desktop x86_64)|KDE 4.10.2 release 556|Intel core2duo 2.5 MHZ,|8GB DDR3|GeForce 8400GS(NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-310.32) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
upscope wrote Russ .docx was 2007 onwards. What can i help with on mac? Yes I was aware of that. If you are using LO writer, see if the document attached to the bug report opens displays the full graphic and text. There are graphics on almost all pages and some open completely but not in the right location, some only partially open, etc. Actually Jonathan's point is quite relevant. If you save the example document you provided in .doc format in your MS Office (instead of saving in docx) you will notice that actually it is quite well preserved and can be transferred back and forth between LibreOffice and MS Word. Since the original discussion is about LibreOffice replacing Office 2003, then I believe it might be a realistic replacement with some quirks. I should also add that a perfectly formatted document (using styles and page/margin limits instead of tabs and spaces) is much more resistant to conversions ;) This is not an excuse to say that LibreOffice does not need to improve A LOT, especially with regards to Office XML formats. Currently most documents can not go back and forth (because LO barely supports Office XML and Office barely supports ODF...) So there is room for improvement in the new file format versions but keeping to the old Office 2003 formats is currently the best option. Hope this helps ;) -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/End-of-Life-support-for-MSO-2003-countdown-tp4050964p4051957.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 04:07:29 PM Pedro wrote: upscope wrote Russ .docx was 2007 onwards. What can i help with on mac? Yes I was aware of that. If you are using LO writer, see if the document attached to the bug report opens displays the full graphic and text. There are graphics on almost all pages and some open completely but not in the right location, some only partially open, etc. Actually Jonathan's point is quite relevant. If you save the example document you provided in .doc format in your MS Office (instead of saving in docx) you will notice that actually it is quite well preserved and can be transferred back and forth between LibreOffice and MS Word. I agree with his point but as I stated I do not have any MicroSoft Office Software. I strictly use Linux and LibreOffice. The sample document is one sent to be from Canada by a user and I've tried to convince them to save it as .doc but I'm the only one so far not using XP, Vista or Win 7/8. I even tried to have them send it as a .pdf but that was above some of their knowledge level. I would say about 70% of the douments I recieve today are .docx. I have no problems with the text only ones. When I send them a document I usually save it as .pdf or .doc and it is all correct. its the incoming ones with graphics that I cannot control. I doubled the memory available for LibreOffice as suggested on mailing list but it did not help. I appreciate you help and comments. Thanks again Russ Since the original discussion is about LibreOffice replacing Office 2003, then I believe it might be a realistic replacement with some quirks. I should also add that a perfectly formatted document (using styles and page/margin limits instead of tabs and spaces) is much more resistant to conversions ;) This is not an excuse to say that LibreOffice does not need to improve A LOT, especially with regards to Office XML formats. Currently most documents can not go back and forth (because LO barely supports Office XML and Office barely supports ODF...) So there is room for improvement in the new file format versions but keeping to the old Office 2003 formats is currently the best option. Hope this helps ;) -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/End-of-Life-support-for-MSO-2003 -countdown-tp4050964p4051957.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- openSUSE 12.3(Linux 3.7.10-1.1-desktop x86_64)|KDE 4.10.2 release 556|Intel core2duo 2.5 MHZ,|8GB DDR3|GeForce 8400GS(NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-310.32) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
Hi Immanuel The Discuss mailing list is dead. It is used to post official news items but unlike it's exciting name, there is little to no discussion in here. Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new tricks to old dogs. In any case it's up to the TDF Directors to worry/answer your question :) Cheers, Pedro -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/End-of-Life-support-for-MSO-2003-countdown-tp4050964p4051512.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an advertisement campaing through google adwords? That would be a great way to get the notion out there that there are alternatives and that LO exists. especially since the links come up when doing a search. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.comwrote: This mailing list is not dead, but we are all volunteers and we all have a family and a work to pay our bills. Sometimes, to reply to messages it takes some time. On 4/22/13 10:06 AM, Pedro wrote: Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new tricks to old dogs. This does not reflect the reality, where most LibreOffice (and OpenOffice) users are coming from the Microsoft field, because they are fed up with license costs or simply looking for an alternative (this is the most frequent approach). The end of life for MS Office 2003 is a significant problem for companies, but not for individuals. Targeting companies is definitely more difficult than targeting individuals, but as far as I know most of them are already trying to manage the problem - at least in Europe - and many of them are looking at migrating to free software. TDF has published a white paper about migrating from Microsoft Office to LibreOffice, which is being translated in several languages. We can use such a document to educate companies and we can even make a version targeted to MS Office 2003 users. The fact that the file conversion is not perfect is not going to change. It will never be perfect, because Microsoft is deliberatedly creating formats which are impossible to emulate in order to reduce the interoperability (interoperability is the death of lock in, and lock in is the cornerstone of Microsoft business model). On the other hand, placing a counter on our website would not reach the potential target of MS Office 2003 users, unless they already know free software and LibreOffice (which would put them in a different group). We should make some hard noise in the Windows environment, using social media and traditional media. Let's brainstorm about a specific message for this target group. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
Hello Jonathan, This is the wrong list I'm afraid. But to answer your question directly: we already are using such channels. See the various lists (marketing@) for more info. best, Charles. Le lundi 22 avril 2013 à 16:28 +0200, Jonathan Aquilina a écrit : Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an advertisement campaing through google adwords? That would be a great way to get the notion out there that there are alternatives and that LO exists. especially since the links come up when doing a search. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.comwrote: This mailing list is not dead, but we are all volunteers and we all have a family and a work to pay our bills. Sometimes, to reply to messages it takes some time. On 4/22/13 10:06 AM, Pedro wrote: Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new tricks to old dogs. This does not reflect the reality, where most LibreOffice (and OpenOffice) users are coming from the Microsoft field, because they are fed up with license costs or simply looking for an alternative (this is the most frequent approach). The end of life for MS Office 2003 is a significant problem for companies, but not for individuals. Targeting companies is definitely more difficult than targeting individuals, but as far as I know most of them are already trying to manage the problem - at least in Europe - and many of them are looking at migrating to free software. TDF has published a white paper about migrating from Microsoft Office to LibreOffice, which is being translated in several languages. We can use such a document to educate companies and we can even make a version targeted to MS Office 2003 users. The fact that the file conversion is not perfect is not going to change. It will never be perfect, because Microsoft is deliberatedly creating formats which are impossible to emulate in order to reduce the interoperability (interoperability is the death of lock in, and lock in is the cornerstone of Microsoft business model). On the other hand, placing a counter on our website would not reach the potential target of MS Office 2003 users, unless they already know free software and LibreOffice (which would put them in a different group). We should make some hard noise in the Windows environment, using social media and traditional media. Let's brainstorm about a specific message for this target group. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-Founder Director, The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
Re to myself: actually the mailing list you use is the right one but not its label (it's not board-discuss)... best, Charles. Le lundi 22 avril 2013 à 16:28 +0200, Jonathan Aquilina a écrit : Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an advertisement campaing through google adwords? That would be a great way to get the notion out there that there are alternatives and that LO exists. especially since the links come up when doing a search. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.comwrote: This mailing list is not dead, but we are all volunteers and we all have a family and a work to pay our bills. Sometimes, to reply to messages it takes some time. On 4/22/13 10:06 AM, Pedro wrote: Regarding your subject, I think that LibreOffice could target those users but there are two obstacles: the file conversion is not perfect AND (most important) those users are already too used to MS Office. It is easier to convince new users to work with a different product than to teach new tricks to old dogs. This does not reflect the reality, where most LibreOffice (and OpenOffice) users are coming from the Microsoft field, because they are fed up with license costs or simply looking for an alternative (this is the most frequent approach). The end of life for MS Office 2003 is a significant problem for companies, but not for individuals. Targeting companies is definitely more difficult than targeting individuals, but as far as I know most of them are already trying to manage the problem - at least in Europe - and many of them are looking at migrating to free software. TDF has published a white paper about migrating from Microsoft Office to LibreOffice, which is being translated in several languages. We can use such a document to educate companies and we can even make a version targeted to MS Office 2003 users. The fact that the file conversion is not perfect is not going to change. It will never be perfect, because Microsoft is deliberatedly creating formats which are impossible to emulate in order to reduce the interoperability (interoperability is the death of lock in, and lock in is the cornerstone of Microsoft business model). On the other hand, placing a counter on our website would not reach the potential target of MS Office 2003 users, unless they already know free software and LibreOffice (which would put them in a different group). We should make some hard noise in the Windows environment, using social media and traditional media. Let's brainstorm about a specific message for this target group. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-Founder Director, The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
On 4/22/13 4:28 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an advertisement campaing through google adwords? We can probably enhance our Google AdWords by including terms related to MS Office end-of-life support, although we should make some research to get the right wording. Especially when you target this kind of long descriptions, Google AdWords become tricky, as you might completely miss your target by choosing the wrong association. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
The latest tools allow one to search the keywords before actually using them in relation to the number of clicks as of late. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.comwrote: On 4/22/13 4:28 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an advertisement campaing through google adwords? We can probably enhance our Google AdWords by including terms related to MS Office end-of-life support, although we should make some research to get the right wording. Especially when you target this kind of long descriptions, Google AdWords become tricky, as you might completely miss your target by choosing the wrong association. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
I remember seeing a discussion about the White Paper, and I hope that translations to other languages will be done. That will help a lot. Here in Canada, the Quebec government is about to spend 1.4 billion $ to upgrade 500,000 desktops from MSO 2003 to MSO 2013. This is only the provincial public service and does not include municipal/city-level public service with approx another 300,000. The original intent of my message (sorry if I used the wrong mailing list) was to make a blog post to say that we as a community are aware of the end-of-life for MSO 2003 that is less than a year away, and here are some reasons why you should make the switch. Yes, the formats are not perfect, and yes the license is free. But most important, LibreOffice has 99% (?) of the same functionalities of MSO and answers the need of 99% (?) of end-users, either individuals or business. LibreOffice is the alternative! Cheers from Montreal Immanuel On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.comwrote: The latest tools allow one to search the keywords before actually using them in relation to the number of clicks as of late. On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/22/13 4:28 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: Italo are you planning on taking advantage of other means besides social networks such as google plus facebook twitter etc are you planning an advertisement campaing through google adwords? We can probably enhance our Google AdWords by including terms related to MS Office end-of-life support, although we should make some research to get the right wording. Especially when you target this kind of long descriptions, Google AdWords become tricky, as you might completely miss your target by choosing the wrong association. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: End of Life support for MSO 2003 countdown ?
On 4/22/13 6:28 PM, Immanuel Giulea wrote: The original intent of my message (sorry if I used the wrong mailing list) was to make a blog post to say that we as a community are aware of the end-of-life for MSO 2003 that is less than a year away, and here are some reasons why you should make the switch. Don't worry, the mailing list is OK, although this might also be interesting for marketing people. Let's elaborate the idea, because a simple blog post is probably not enough. We should target magazines and websites covering e-government issues, because IT people might be reading these media. Unfortunately, politicians - who usually take the decisions - are not reading media but are prone to MS lobby efforts. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
