RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Hello, I think that a simple comparison to what ArcGIS does is limitating. Several issues arises: - Why compare to ArcGIS 9.3 and not Geomedia, MapInfo,...? - What about features that OS GIS desktops provides not present in ArcGIS 9.3? I'd rather have a comparison among all of them under equal conditions, for instance a feature comparison based on the maximum features all products offer, as well as a perfomance analysis. For this, a common dataset of both file and service based data should be available. In Spain there are a lot of public official geodata which could be used as test datasets. I also like very much Paul Ramsey's approach about what I like and what I don't made by people belonging to different projects. Regards, - Miguel Montesinos CTO PRODEVELOP, S.L. mmontesinos [at] prodevelop [dot] es www.prodevelop.es http://www.prodevelop.es/ Miguel Montesinos De: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] En nombre de Daniel Ames Enviado el: lunes, 21 de diciembre de 2009 19:25 Para: Maxim Dubinin; OSGeo Discussions Asunto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010? Folks, I like the structured comparison approach that Cameron outlined. Also equally (or perhaps more useful) would be to put together a wiki page with goals and benchmarks based on ArcGIS 9.3. And then indicate where the os packages compare. This would provide us with the ability to answer the most important question which is can this do what the proprietary software does. For example, we could post a couple of maps made in AG and then challenge each desktop team to create and upload the same maps. Etc. I have a line shapefile with 200 shapes. We could upload it and have everyone do some timing to show how fast to load,pan, etc on the data. This could also serve as a way for some of the teams to see their own deficiencies and find critical tasks to work on (they could then update their reporting on the wiki and indicate the version number)... - Dan ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] Mobile shootout at FOSS4G 2010?
Hello, Thinking about OSGeo desktop shootout, I think that also having a mobile shootout comparison of both closed and open source mobile GIS/SDI clients would be of high interest, for showing that there are a full range of solutions from the DB to the mobile device using open source software. Any ideas about this? Regards, - Miguel Montesinos Director Técnico PRODEVELOP, S.L. mmontesinos [en] prodevelop [punto] es www.prodevelop.es ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Mobile shootout at FOSS4G 2010?
Hei, well so it would be ArcPad (1) vs. gvSIG Mobile Pilot (2)? because these are the only platforms I know of that are (1) heavily used and (2) FOS. Or does anybody know other FOS mobile clients too? The latter info would be highly appreciate becasue then I could revise nmy article sections on that which points only to gvSIG Mobile right now ;) stefan Miguel Montesinos schrieb: Hello, Thinking about OSGeo desktop shootout, I think that also having a mobile shootout comparison of both closed and open source mobile GIS/SDI clients would be of high interest, for showing that there are a full range of solutions from the DB to the mobile device using open source software. Any ideas about this? Regards, - Miguel Montesinos Director Técnico PRODEVELOP, S.L. mmontesinos [en] prodevelop [punto] es www.prodevelop.es ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Mobile shootout at FOSS4G 2010?
Hei boys, don't forget geopaparazzi, soon on your androids :) It has a particular target but can IMHO be considered: http://www.geopaparazzi.eu/ Andrea On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Stefan Steiniger sst...@geo.uzh.ch wrote: Hei, well so it would be ArcPad (1) vs. gvSIG Mobile Pilot (2)? because these are the only platforms I know of that are (1) heavily used and (2) FOS. Or does anybody know other FOS mobile clients too? The latter info would be highly appreciate becasue then I could revise nmy article sections on that which points only to gvSIG Mobile right now ;) stefan Miguel Montesinos schrieb: Hello, Thinking about OSGeo desktop shootout, I think that also having a mobile shootout comparison of both closed and open source mobile GIS/SDI clients would be of high interest, for showing that there are a full range of solutions from the DB to the mobile device using open source software. Any ideas about this? Regards, - Miguel Montesinos Director Técnico PRODEVELOP, S.L. mmontesinos [en] prodevelop [punto] es www.prodevelop.es ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
I do not think a simple feature comparison is very useful. Seeing workflows that happen to use XYZ software or.. how we transitioned from ABC proprietary software to XYZ open source and improved performance 10% while reducing costs 20% etc.. that's useful and convincing. Knowing that ABC proprietary supports 3 methods of kriging while XYZ open source supports 2 may be earthshattering or completely irrelevant. The real answer is an unexciting It depends. You can tweak feature comparisons to make yourself look good, the competition look bad.. etc.. It's just like statistics. I see this in camera reviews all the time, The Pentax K200D has a 96% viewfinder. Comparable models from Nikon and Canon offer 95% viewfinders. Call me cynical, but I find it hard to believe that someone at Pentax didn't say Let's make our number bigger. Of course, in many reviews of those models, the Pentax scores higher on that feature because 96 95 [1]. Does that make it a better camera? Well gee I guess if you only cared about that 1 thing; I don't know anyone that does (or should). What you don't see in feature comparisons are solid, no-B$ analyses of how they let you do your job better. Usability for example is something that you cannot easily quantify. You can have the best product/software in the world but if I can't get the results due to UI/UX failure, or an unnecessarily steep learning curve, etc; then for me the user - your software is 100% useless (actually it's worse because now I have to find a tool that does work). Handtools are a classic example of this; anyone that works with wood or mechanical parts will understand how some tools just don't feel right. Do they feel 20% less right? Doesn't work that way. Not to say that feature comparisons are completely useless, especially for new people they can be good; but overall they're coarse, imprecise, and not very knowledge-rich IMO. Case studies of transition are much more powerful; speaking both as a user and a decisionmaker. I think moving towards active real-world presentations is far more powerful than lifeless comparisons. Another example is people that love SSDs (solid state drives) and rave about their Windows boot times. Yeah SSDs are great but.. do you just sit around and reboot your computer all day? A 2000% improvement on something I do once a month is probably not that big of a deal. - bri p.s. I shoot nikon but I really don't care what you shoot and have 0 vested interest; just an example. 1. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxK200D/page20.asp On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Miguel Montesinos mmontesi...@prodevelop.es wrote: Hello, I think that a simple comparison to what ArcGIS does is limitating. Several issues arises: - Why compare to ArcGIS 9.3 and not Geomedia, MapInfo,…? - What about features that OS GIS desktops provides not present in ArcGIS 9.3? I’d rather have a comparison among all of them under equal conditions, for instance a feature comparison based on the maximum features all products offer, as well as a perfomance analysis. For this, a common dataset of both file and service based data should be available. In Spain there are “a lot” of public official geodata which could be used as test datasets. I also like very much Paul Ramsey’s approach about what I like and what I don’t made by people belonging to different projects. Regards, - Miguel Montesinos CTO PRODEVELOP, S.L. mmontesinos [at] prodevelop [dot] es www.prodevelop.es Miguel Montesinos *De:* discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] *En nombre de *Daniel Ames *Enviado el:* lunes, 21 de diciembre de 2009 19:25 *Para:* Maxim Dubinin; OSGeo Discussions *Asunto:* Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010? Folks, I like the structured comparison approach that Cameron outlined. Also equally (or perhaps more useful) would be to put together a wiki page with goals and benchmarks based on ArcGIS 9.3. And then indicate where the os packages compare. This would provide us with the ability to answer the most important question which is can this do what the proprietary software does. For example, we could post a couple of maps made in AG and then challenge each desktop team to create and upload the same maps. Etc. I have a line shapefile with 200 shapes. We could upload it and have everyone do some timing to show how fast to load,pan, etc on the data. This could also serve as a way for some of the teams to see their own deficiencies and find critical tasks to work on (they could then update their reporting on the wiki and indicate the version number)... - Dan ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list
[OSGeo-Discuss] OSGEO code
Hi, I apologise if this is out of topic, but I don't know where else to post this question. I'm implementing the OSGEO Tile Map Server http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Tile_Map_Service_Specification http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Tile_Map_Service_Specificationand I came across a SRS named OSGEO:41001; since I don't know this authority and code, I was wondering if it is the same as Google Mercator (EPSG:900913). This was also suggested to me from reading in other places: http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/wiki/SoCGDAL2Tiles#NewsuggestionsforTMSStandard http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/wiki/SoCGDAL2Tiles#NewsuggestionsforTMSStandardIf it is the same, maybe it would be a good idea to change the code for EPSG (update the spec), for a matter of inter operability and compatibility with other services? If it is not the same, I would really appreciate if you could point me to other places where I can get more information about this SRS. Thanks in advance, best regards, Jo -- #define QUESTION ((bb) || !(bb)) (Shakespeare) ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] spatial-literacy.org
Hi, While reading http://www.spatialanalysisonline.com I've came across another related resource that might be useful as educational material: http://www.spatial-literacy.org Check the Videos Talks Best regards, -- Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Hi all, This is a great discussion and I think that we're all generally on the same page. Here's a little more food for thought regarding a desktop shootout: Why compare to ESRI? The answer is because they own the lion's share of the market with one-third of the global market share, and are used by nearly 80 percent of GIS users worldwide from all professions. (at least that's what Wikipedia says...). So if this is true, then that means that 80% of GIS users are asking the question, Why should I use desktop open source XXX instead of ESRI? And the three main sub-questions are: Can I open the same files? Can I make the same maps? Can I do the same analyses? Can I teach the same lessons? So rather than looking inward at ourselves and watching a shoot out between the FOSS solutions (which presumably results with someone lying dead and bleeding on the floor...), it be more productive and better for the cause to look *outward *and do some kind of a comparison that helps those 80% of all GIS users answer the questions above? Something like the MS thesis about GRASS and ArcGIS that was mentioned, but web-based and updated by the various project members. I'd be happy to commit some student resources to this evaluation, particularly if some subcommittee of people could agree on what the tests would entail. - Dan On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 2:01 AM, Miguel Montesinos mmontesi...@prodevelop.es wrote: Hello, I think that a simple comparison to what ArcGIS does is limitating. Several issues arises: - Why compare to ArcGIS 9.3 and not Geomedia, MapInfo,…? - What about features that OS GIS desktops provides not present in ArcGIS 9.3? I’d rather have a comparison among all of them under equal conditions, for instance a feature comparison based on the maximum features all products offer, as well as a perfomance analysis. For this, a common dataset of both file and service based data should be available. In Spain there are “a lot” of public official geodata which could be used as test datasets. I also like very much Paul Ramsey’s approach about what I like and what I don’t made by people belonging to different projects. Regards, - Miguel Montesinos CTO PRODEVELOP, S.L. mmontesinos [at] prodevelop [dot] es www.prodevelop.es Miguel Montesinos *De:* discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] *En nombre de *Daniel Ames *Enviado el:* lunes, 21 de diciembre de 2009 19:25 *Para:* Maxim Dubinin; OSGeo Discussions *Asunto:* Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010? Folks, I like the structured comparison approach that Cameron outlined. Also equally (or perhaps more useful) would be to put together a wiki page with goals and benchmarks based on ArcGIS 9.3. And then indicate where the os packages compare. This would provide us with the ability to answer the most important question which is can this do what the proprietary software does. For example, we could post a couple of maps made in AG and then challenge each desktop team to create and upload the same maps. Etc. I have a line shapefile with 200 shapes. We could upload it and have everyone do some timing to show how fast to load,pan, etc on the data. This could also serve as a way for some of the teams to see their own deficiencies and find critical tasks to work on (they could then update their reporting on the wiki and indicate the version number)... - Dan ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Daniel P. Ames, Ph.D. PE Associate Professor, Geosciences Idaho State University - Idaho Falls amesd...@isu.edu geology.isu.edu www.hydromap.com www.mapwindow.org * See you at MapWindow GIS 2010! Orlando, Florida, USA 31 March - 2 April 2010 http://www.mapwindow.org/conference/2010 Also at: FOSS4G 2009: http://2009.foss4g.org/ AWRA GIS 2010: http://www.awra.org/meetings/Florida2010/ IEMSS 2010: http://www.iemss.org/iemss2010/ * ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGEO code
Hi Jo, I agree, but It seems EPSG:3785 it's the official code for Spherical/Web Mercator so it should be the one on this updated spec. http://www.spatialreference.org/ref/epsg/3785/ , http://www.iter.dk/post/2008/05/SphericalWeb-Mercator-EPSG-code-3785.aspx I'm looking for authority information on both codes you send, and I'm only getting emails and tile-cache related texts. greetings Luis Jo wrote: Hi, I apologise if this is out of topic, but I don't know where else to post this question. I'm implementing the OSGEO Tile Map Server http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Tile_Map_Service_Specification and I came across a SRS named OSGEO:41001; since I don't know this authority and code, I was wondering if it is the same as Google Mercator (EPSG:900913). This was also suggested to me from reading in other places: http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/wiki/SoCGDAL2Tiles#NewsuggestionsforTMSStandard If it is the same, maybe it would be a good idea to change the code for EPSG (update the spec), for a matter of inter operability and compatibility with other services? If it is not the same, I would really appreciate if you could point me to other places where I can get more information about this SRS. Thanks in advance, best regards, Jo -- #define QUESTION ((bb) || !(bb)) (Shakespeare) ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Hei Dan, thanks for the thoughts - I like them too and thats what I see too.. we need not only to bring up the highlights between FOSGIS but even more to convince people to eventually have a look on FOSGIS by comparing it to ESRIs desktop software, since they have set a bit the standards (at least for teaching higher level geography GIS courses). But two notes: I doubte that ESRI has 80% because this would mean the utility market is not considered. And I think one talks here more about ESRI in a gegraphical analysis perspective. While I am not sure what the average GIS user actually does (i.e. How many do queries, do editing, do real analysis?). I like your subquestions - and allow me to add comments :) And the three main sub-questions are: Can I open the same files? well.. on the c-tribe side yes thanks to Gdal/OGR? But i would restrict to core file types (shp, dxf, mif, raster stuff) Can I make the same maps? uuhmmm - not yet, but...? Can I do the same analyses? With Sextante probably yes, now. Can I teach the same lessons? Ahh.. that hits a point. As we need to tell students about this open source stuff. I actually plan to check out the next days if I can replace some arcgis analysis tools with sextante for a course. So maybe we check what is taugth in the GIS core curriculum? Something like the MS thesis about GRASS and ArcGIS that was mentioned, but web-based and updated by the various project members. Sounds good and its great if you would have even student resources. I actually tried to do such comparison already in my second publication on GIS in landscape ecology and in my last talks - my result was: Most of the FOS desktop GIS are on the ArcView level and a bit beyond, but we can not compete with ArcInfo (leave a side the need for an easy map making tool - not sure how good the last QGIS tool is). So by now I see our chance in providing specialist tools for target groups that are either too small for ESRI, Pitney Bowes Intergraph Co to be ever included in their official distribution or that may be to expensive to be bought as extension for some (I remember a friend who once needed Maplex for labeling but not the rest of ArcGIS ArcInfo analysis features). And we would need to highlight which whose things are. here a link to that pub: http://www.geo.uzh.ch/~sstein/finalpub/steiniger_geographic_information_tools_ecoinf2009.pdf stefan ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
So if this is true, then that means that 80% of GIS users are asking the question, Why should I use desktop open source XXX instead of ESRI? I get more questions asking about the differences between FOSS projects than between FOSS and proprietary products. If people are already coming to FOSS4G, or to OSGeo in some other way, they likely already want to use open source but want help choosing a path. I do agree that many wonder how we stack up to proprietary but I hope we stick to what we know best. That is, unless proprietary folks join the shootout. :) Just a thought, Tyler ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Helena, perhaps we should move this discussion to the EDU list, since this side by side comparison you have done could be expanded to include multiple desktop applications and would be fantastic to have as an educational tool. Perhaps we can copy your exercises on a WIKI page and then encourage other teams to post solutions using other desktop apps where they can? Then we'd all have this as a resource to use in classes... - Dan On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Helena Mitasova hmit...@unity.ncsu.eduwrote: I have numerous examples of gis tasks done side-by-side in GRASS and ArcGIS here: http://courses.ncsu.edu/mea582/lec/001/GIS_anal_assign/GIS_Anal_Assignall.html The data for the examples are available as GRASS data location and ArcGIS geodatabase (links on top of the document) as well as in shape and ArcGRID format (I could not get all rasters convert correctly to GeoTIFF at the time I was preparing the data) here http://www.grassbook.org/data_menu3rd.php It certainly does not cover everything (especially vector data and database examples are very limited) but there is plenty to show various aspects of GIS from simple display and visualization to complex analysis. It would be interesting to see some of these examples done in other systems - we tried QGIS but that ended up using GRASS plugin too much, so other more independent software would be more interesting. I will be updating the material in next few months to capture the latest developments and plan to add another course with examples in different software packages in fall. I am sure there will be a lot of interest here to see how at least some of the tasks are executed in MapWindows of gvSIG and also extension of this material to cover more vector / database and image processing material. Feel free to use the data, the examples are various modifications of the examples from the GRASbook, Helena Helena Mitasova Associate Professor Department of Marine, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences North Carolina State University 1125 Jordan Hall NCSU Box 8208 Raleigh, NC 27695-8208 http://skagit.meas.ncsu.edu/~helena/ email: hmit...@unity.ncsu.edu ph: 919-513-1327 (no voicemail) fax 919 515-7802 On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Stefan Steiniger wrote: Hei Dan, thanks for the thoughts - I like them too and thats what I see too.. we need not only to bring up the highlights between FOSGIS but even more to convince people to eventually have a look on FOSGIS by comparing it to ESRIs desktop software, since they have set a bit the standards (at least for teaching higher level geography GIS courses). But two notes: I doubte that ESRI has 80% because this would mean the utility market is not considered. And I think one talks here more about ESRI in a gegraphical analysis perspective. While I am not sure what the average GIS user actually does (i.e. How many do queries, do editing, do real analysis?). I like your subquestions - and allow me to add comments :) And the three main sub-questions are: Can I open the same files? well.. on the c-tribe side yes thanks to Gdal/OGR? But i would restrict to core file types (shp, dxf, mif, raster stuff) Can I make the same maps? uuhmmm - not yet, but...? Can I do the same analyses? With Sextante probably yes, now. Can I teach the same lessons? Ahh.. that hits a point. As we need to tell students about this open source stuff. I actually plan to check out the next days if I can replace some arcgis analysis tools with sextante for a course. So maybe we check what is taugth in the GIS core curriculum? Something like the MS thesis about GRASS and ArcGIS that was mentioned, but web-based and updated by the various project members. Sounds good and its great if you would have even student resources. I actually tried to do such comparison already in my second publication on GIS in landscape ecology and in my last talks - my result was: Most of the FOS desktop GIS are on the ArcView level and a bit beyond, but we can not compete with ArcInfo (leave a side the need for an easy map making tool - not sure how good the last QGIS tool is). So by now I see our chance in providing specialist tools for target groups that are either too small for ESRI, Pitney Bowes Intergraph Co to be ever included in their official distribution or that may be to expensive to be bought as extension for some (I remember a friend who once needed Maplex for labeling but not the rest of ArcGIS ArcInfo analysis features). And we would need to highlight which whose things are. here a link to that pub: http://www.geo.uzh.ch/~sstein/finalpub/steiniger_geographic_information_tools_ecoinf2009.pdf stefan ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Daniel Ames wrote: I teach ArcGIS 9.3 every semester, so I'll happily provide that perspective (as well as the MapWindow desktop perspective). By the way Tyler gave an awesome OSGeo talk at AGU in San Francisco last week and handled the how does this stack up to ESRI question brilliantly. I believe the answer was, We see ESRI as a major success story for OSGeo since they've adopted GDAL and OGR. Couldn't have been addressed more perfectly. Folks, To be clear, I am unaware of any adoption of OGR by ESRI. They do make extensive use of GDAL for raster translation and raster data access. While this is a good point to mention, and helps point out that things aren't as simple as us and them, since even them is often one of us in some respects, I'd like us to be able to give a deeper answer. Many workloads that are currently done with ArcGIS could also be done with FOSS tools (most web mapping, much desktop work, and some deep analysis). I'd like to get white papers, and presentations addressing some of these easily transferrable workloads. Best regards, -- ---+-- I set the clouds in motion - turn up | Frank Warmerdam, warmer...@pobox.com light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam and watch the world go round - Rush| Geospatial Programmer for Rent ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Helena, Excellent stuff. I don't suppose you could be tempted to add reference to your material to the OSGeo Case Studies page: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Case_Studies#GRASS On 23/12/2009 8:20 AM, Helena Mitasova wrote: I have numerous examples of gis tasks done side-by-side in GRASS and ArcGIS here: http://courses.ncsu.edu/mea582/lec/001/GIS_anal_assign/GIS_Anal_Assignall.html The data for the examples are available as GRASS data location and ArcGIS geodatabase (links on top of the document) as well as in shape and ArcGRID format (I could not get all rasters convert correctly to GeoTIFF at the time I was preparing the data) here http://www.grassbook.org/data_menu3rd.php It certainly does not cover everything (especially vector data and database examples are very limited) but there is plenty to show various aspects of GIS from simple display and visualization to complex analysis. It would be interesting to see some of these examples done in other systems - we tried QGIS but that ended up using GRASS plugin too much, so other more independent software would be more interesting. I will be updating the material in next few months to capture the latest developments and plan to add another course with examples in different software packages in fall. I am sure there will be a lot of interest here to see how at least some of the tasks are executed in MapWindows of gvSIG and also extension of this material to cover more vector / database and image processing material. Feel free to use the data, the examples are various modifications of the examples from the GRASbook, Helena Helena Mitasova Associate Professor Department of Marine, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences North Carolina State University 1125 Jordan Hall NCSU Box 8208 Raleigh, NC 27695-8208 http://skagit.meas.ncsu.edu/~helena/ email: hmit...@unity.ncsu.edu ph: 919-513-1327 (no voicemail) fax 919 515-7802 On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Stefan Steiniger wrote: Hei Dan, thanks for the thoughts - I like them too and thats what I see too.. we need not only to bring up the highlights between FOSGIS but even more to convince people to eventually have a look on FOSGIS by comparing it to ESRIs desktop software, since they have set a bit the standards (at least for teaching higher level geography GIS courses). But two notes: I doubte that ESRI has 80% because this would mean the utility market is not considered. And I think one talks here more about ESRI in a gegraphical analysis perspective. While I am not sure what the average GIS user actually does (i.e. How many do queries, do editing, do real analysis?). I like your subquestions - and allow me to add comments :) And the three main sub-questions are: Can I open the same files? well.. on the c-tribe side yes thanks to Gdal/OGR? But i would restrict to core file types (shp, dxf, mif, raster stuff) Can I make the same maps? uuhmmm - not yet, but...? Can I do the same analyses? With Sextante probably yes, now. Can I teach the same lessons? Ahh.. that hits a point. As we need to tell students about this open source stuff. I actually plan to check out the next days if I can replace some arcgis analysis tools with sextante for a course. So maybe we check what is taugth in the GIS core curriculum? Something like the MS thesis about GRASS and ArcGIS that was mentioned, but web-based and updated by the various project members. Sounds good and its great if you would have even student resources. I actually tried to do such comparison already in my second publication on GIS in landscape ecology and in my last talks - my result was: Most of the FOS desktop GIS are on the ArcView level and a bit beyond, but we can not compete with ArcInfo (leave a side the need for an easy map making tool - not sure how good the last QGIS tool is). So by now I see our chance in providing specialist tools for target groups that are either too small for ESRI, Pitney Bowes Intergraph Co to be ever included in their official distribution or that may be to expensive to be bought as extension for some (I remember a friend who once needed Maplex for labeling but not the rest of ArcGIS ArcInfo analysis features). And we would need to highlight which whose things are. here a link to that pub: http://www.geo.uzh.ch/~sstein/finalpub/steiniger_geographic_information_tools_ecoinf2009.pdf stefan ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Cameron Shorter Geospatial Solutions Manager Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050 Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254 Think Globally, Fix Locally Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source http://www.lisasoft.com ___ Discuss mailing list
Re: [OSGeo-Edu] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Daniel, yes, I am definitely more interested in the educational aspect of the comparison than the performance which I think would be very difficult to measure because accuracy and quality of the results (whatever that means) may be as important as speed, if not more. I have been promising Charlie to put this under OSGeo Edu svn for a long time, but I keep updating and improving it so it is never finished - I guess it will never be so I may as well upload it. I have created NCSU directory there and we started a coastal lidar data analysis tutorial - http://svn.osgeo.org/osgeo/education/UnderDevelopment/ (see more about the edu svn here http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/ Subversion_edu_instructions) I will upload some of the course material and we can try to add a MapWindow solution? We can do two topics for a start, e.g. Buffers and cost surfaces Flow routing and watershed analysis The power point slides for relevant lectures explain the tasks and show some example results. I used plain text for the assignment tasks to make it manageable and easy to update and it seems that the students are OK with it and can follow the GUI procedure for ArcGIS. I use screen capture only where I feel it is absolutely necessary, e.g. for visualization with nviz. I will let you know when I upload it, Helena On Dec 22, 2009, at 4:49 PM, Daniel Ames wrote: Helena, perhaps we should move this discussion to the EDU list, since this side by side comparison you have done could be expanded to include multiple desktop applications and would be fantastic to have as an educational tool. Perhaps we can copy your exercises on a WIKI page and then encourage other teams to post solutions using other desktop apps where they can? Then we'd all have this as a resource to use in classes... - Dan On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Helena Mitasova hmit...@unity.ncsu.edu wrote: I have numerous examples of gis tasks done side-by-side in GRASS and ArcGIS here: http://courses.ncsu.edu/mea582/lec/001/GIS_anal_assign/ GIS_Anal_Assignall.html The data for the examples are available as GRASS data location and ArcGIS geodatabase (links on top of the document) as well as in shape and ArcGRID format (I could not get all rasters convert correctly to GeoTIFF at the time I was preparing the data) here http://www.grassbook.org/data_menu3rd.php It certainly does not cover everything (especially vector data and database examples are very limited) but there is plenty to show various aspects of GIS from simple display and visualization to complex analysis. It would be interesting to see some of these examples done in other systems - we tried QGIS but that ended up using GRASS plugin too much, so other more independent software would be more interesting. I will be updating the material in next few months to capture the latest developments and plan to add another course with examples in different software packages in fall. I am sure there will be a lot of interest here to see how at least some of the tasks are executed in MapWindows of gvSIG and also extension of this material to cover more vector / database and image processing material. Feel free to use the data, the examples are various modifications of the examples from the GRASbook, Helena Helena Mitasova Associate Professor Department of Marine, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences North Carolina State University 1125 Jordan Hall NCSU Box 8208 Raleigh, NC 27695-8208 http://skagit.meas.ncsu.edu/~helena/ email: hmit...@unity.ncsu.edu ph: 919-513-1327 (no voicemail) fax 919 515-7802 On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Stefan Steiniger wrote: Hei Dan, thanks for the thoughts - I like them too and thats what I see too.. we need not only to bring up the highlights between FOSGIS but even more to convince people to eventually have a look on FOSGIS by comparing it to ESRIs desktop software, since they have set a bit the standards (at least for teaching higher level geography GIS courses). But two notes: I doubte that ESRI has 80% because this would mean the utility market is not considered. And I think one talks here more about ESRI in a gegraphical analysis perspective. While I am not sure what the average GIS user actually does (i.e. How many do queries, do editing, do real analysis?). I like your subquestions - and allow me to add comments :) And the three main sub-questions are: Can I open the same files? well.. on the c-tribe side yes thanks to Gdal/OGR? But i would restrict to core file types (shp, dxf, mif, raster stuff) Can I make the same maps? uuhmmm - not yet, but...? Can I do the same analyses? With Sextante probably yes, now. Can I teach the same lessons? Ahh.. that hits a point. As we need to tell students about this open source stuff. I actually plan to check out the next days if I can replace some arcgis analysis tools with sextante for a course. So maybe we check what is taugth in the GIS
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Cameron, I added it. Helena On Dec 22, 2009, at 7:13 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote: Helena, Excellent stuff. I don't suppose you could be tempted to add reference to your material to the OSGeo Case Studies page: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Case_Studies#GRASS On 23/12/2009 8:20 AM, Helena Mitasova wrote: I have numerous examples of gis tasks done side-by-side in GRASS and ArcGIS here: http://courses.ncsu.edu/mea582/lec/001/GIS_anal_assign/ GIS_Anal_Assignall.html The data for the examples are available as GRASS data location and ArcGIS geodatabase (links on top of the document) as well as in shape and ArcGRID format (I could not get all rasters convert correctly to GeoTIFF at the time I was preparing the data) here http://www.grassbook.org/data_menu3rd.php It certainly does not cover everything (especially vector data and database examples are very limited) but there is plenty to show various aspects of GIS from simple display and visualization to complex analysis. It would be interesting to see some of these examples done in other systems - we tried QGIS but that ended up using GRASS plugin too much, so other more independent software would be more interesting. I will be updating the material in next few months to capture the latest developments and plan to add another course with examples in different software packages in fall. I am sure there will be a lot of interest here to see how at least some of the tasks are executed in MapWindows of gvSIG and also extension of this material to cover more vector / database and image processing material. Feel free to use the data, the examples are various modifications of the examples from the GRASbook, Helena Helena Mitasova Associate Professor Department of Marine, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences North Carolina State University 1125 Jordan Hall NCSU Box 8208 Raleigh, NC 27695-8208 http://skagit.meas.ncsu.edu/~helena/ email: hmit...@unity.ncsu.edu ph: 919-513-1327 (no voicemail) fax 919 515-7802 On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Stefan Steiniger wrote: Hei Dan, thanks for the thoughts - I like them too and thats what I see too.. we need not only to bring up the highlights between FOSGIS but even more to convince people to eventually have a look on FOSGIS by comparing it to ESRIs desktop software, since they have set a bit the standards (at least for teaching higher level geography GIS courses). But two notes: I doubte that ESRI has 80% because this would mean the utility market is not considered. And I think one talks here more about ESRI in a gegraphical analysis perspective. While I am not sure what the average GIS user actually does (i.e. How many do queries, do editing, do real analysis?). I like your subquestions - and allow me to add comments :) And the three main sub-questions are: Can I open the same files? well.. on the c-tribe side yes thanks to Gdal/OGR? But i would restrict to core file types (shp, dxf, mif, raster stuff) Can I make the same maps? uuhmmm - not yet, but...? Can I do the same analyses? With Sextante probably yes, now. Can I teach the same lessons? Ahh.. that hits a point. As we need to tell students about this open source stuff. I actually plan to check out the next days if I can replace some arcgis analysis tools with sextante for a course. So maybe we check what is taugth in the GIS core curriculum? Something like the MS thesis about GRASS and ArcGIS that was mentioned, but web-based and updated by the various project members. Sounds good and its great if you would have even student resources. I actually tried to do such comparison already in my second publication on GIS in landscape ecology and in my last talks - my result was: Most of the FOS desktop GIS are on the ArcView level and a bit beyond, but we can not compete with ArcInfo (leave a side the need for an easy map making tool - not sure how good the last QGIS tool is). So by now I see our chance in providing specialist tools for target groups that are either too small for ESRI, Pitney Bowes Intergraph Co to be ever included in their official distribution or that may be to expensive to be bought as extension for some (I remember a friend who once needed Maplex for labeling but not the rest of ArcGIS ArcInfo analysis features). And we would need to highlight which whose things are. here a link to that pub: http://www.geo.uzh.ch/~sstein/finalpub/ steiniger_geographic_information_tools_ecoinf2009.pdf stefan ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Cameron Shorter Geospatial Solutions Manager Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050 Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254 Think Globally, Fix Locally Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGEO code
Christopher Schmidt wrote: On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 10:29:56AM +, Jo wrote: Hi, I apologise if this is out of topic, but I don't know where else to post this question. I'm implementing the OSGEO Tile Map Server http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Tile_Map_Service_Specification http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Tile_Map_Service_Specificationand I came across a SRS named OSGEO:41001; since I don't know this authority and code, I was wondering if it is the same as Google Mercator (EPSG:900913). This was also suggested to me from reading in other places: 41001 no longer has any meanng, but what we meant by it at the time is what we now call 900913. Not really relevant but easy to memorize, it spells Google: 900913 googlE For a time, this was EPSG:3785; this is now EPSG:3857. All 4 of those (and occasionally 54004) mean essentially the same thing in common usage. http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/wiki/SoCGDAL2Tiles#NewsuggestionsforTMSStandard http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/wiki/SoCGDAL2Tiles#NewsuggestionsforTMSStandardIf it is the same, maybe it would be a good idea to change the code for EPSG (update the spec), for a matter of inter operability and compatibility with other services? If it is not the same, I would really appreciate if you could point me to other places where I can get more information about this SRS. Thanks in advance, best regards, Jo -- #define QUESTION ((bb) || !(bb)) (Shakespeare) ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Arnulf Christl Exploring Space, Time and Mind http://arnulf.us/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Will there be an OSGeo Desktop shootout atFOSS4G 2010?
Frank Warmerdam wrote: Daniel Ames wrote: I teach ArcGIS 9.3 every semester, so I'll happily provide that perspective (as well as the MapWindow desktop perspective). By the way Tyler gave an awesome OSGeo talk at AGU in San Francisco last week and handled the how does this stack up to ESRI question brilliantly. I believe the answer was, We see ESRI as a major success story for OSGeo since they've adopted GDAL and OGR. Couldn't have been addressed more perfectly. Folks, To be clear, I am unaware of any adoption of OGR by ESRI. They do make extensive use of GDAL for raster translation and raster data access. Minor note - usually when I give this answer I say GDAL/OGR as a blanket project name, but I can see how that can be confusing when spoken verbally :) While this is a good point to mention, and helps point out that things aren't as simple as us and them, since even them is often one of us in some respects, I'd like us to be able to give a deeper answer. Many workloads that are currently done with ArcGIS could also be done with FOSS tools (most web mapping, much desktop work, and some deep analysis). I'd like to get white papers, and presentations addressing some of these easily transferrable workloads. I'd also like this workflow assessment angle from the perspective of how I got this project done using FOSS tools - with a backdrop of what they'd have to do otherwise (e.g. using a proprietary package). Tyler ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
