Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Geo4All] Vision for an OSGeo education program

[Randal Hale]

I've been trying to keep up with the emails. A few more thoughts:

 * Social Media is a large part of this. So I'm going to dive in
   somewhere. The kids these days like their "LOLs" and their whatever
   else they are doing. I always ask when I go talk to a school what
   the social media platform is of choice. Facebook and Twitter are
   dropping. Google Plus was never on their radar. Instagram seems to
   be a "thing" currently. I know these are closed platforms - and
   nothing beats a web page - but it's outreach. Linkedin May help us
   bring in more teachers.

 *   I would suggest curated datasets free of Projection nightmares.
   Projections need to be explained - but keep it simple. All the data
   needs to line up - if not that's a part of the Teachers "lesson
   plans" - "You found some data but it doesn't match - email this list
   or talk to people in this "social media area"" and see if they can
   help. I wouldn't be worried about topology, or attribution spelling
   mistakes, or anything complicated  - it just lines up.

 * Web needs to be a part of this. I saw further down web was
   mentioned. Maybe a lesson is "load this data on a web map". So we
   find a place to do this - and mapstory may be it. Maybe a class
   project goes there? Something to think about.

 * Proprietary software will always be in the mix somewhere. ESRI is a
   good platform. I love Fulcrum for mobile. At some point kids/adults
   will use everything - hopefully we convey the "happiness" of open
   source and make them want to contribute back.

I'm "sort of helping" with outreach with FOSS4G Boston. Although I would 
love to have something before August of 2017 - Maybe we outreach to 
educators. They don't have to be GIS Savvy or even GIS people. Maybe 
Geography. Maybe Computer Science. Maybe a teacher "who was trying to 
find a pub and saw all of us standing around".


This will be a good thing. My Canoe is calling me and the weather is 
pleasant! I must be off for a bit.


Randy

On 10/29/2016 08:44 AM, Charlie Schweik wrote:

Hi all,

We have a grant proposal under review right now that, if funded, would 
allow us to have regular meetings over the next four years at FOSS4G 
Europe with both an education and research focus. It's always a long 
shot that this will come in, but this is a proposal that we have 
submitted and revised several times now. We probably won't hear until 
January or February. But regardless, we should start to think about 
what we can do on this front at FOSS4G 2017 (Boston) and at the next 
FOSS4G Europe conference.


But this discussion is starting to develop a framework for moving 
forward on this front. I'm going to save them and cross our fingers 
that this funding comes in. But even if it doesn't, I think we should 
consider developing panels at FOSS4G that builds toward these ideas.


Cheers,

Charlie

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Cameron Shorter 
> wrote:




Randal,

I love your OSGeo educational vision. Its practical, it has a
clear vision, it sounds achievable, it is something which could
start small and then scale, and I think it has the potential to
inspire people to contribute to it. If it attracts a few motivated
and driven contributors, I believe it has all the hallmarks of a
successful Open Source project [1]. I want in!

I can also help out with setting up processes and reviewing
documentation.

I think the first step to work out is our vision, and then clearly
define our first few releases, ensuring they are achievable.
Randal, you've made a great start on that. Maybe something like:

* Simple for teachers to use.

* Focus on quality over quantity

* Has clear teaching goals.

* Makes use of cool, inspiring use cases that kids will connect
with and find relevant.

* Maybe a really engaging use case would be to allow kids to add
the school's basketball hoop to Open Street Map, and then know
that their contribution will be around forever

* Re content, are there national or international learning guides
we can trace back to? If proprietary vendors are linking back to
these, and we do the same, it will provide opportunities for
teachers to mix-and-match classes, similar to switching
applications which all access datasets using the same WMS standard.

One of the key requirements we are going to need is user feedback.
Having teachers report back on the success of their classes,
describing what they'd like to achieve so that we can help
implement it for them. Randal, as you appear to have already built
that connection, I suggest you'd be the best person to start
defining what the first classes should look like?

What should be our first target audience? What age group? Who is
prepared to drive that?


[1]

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Geo4All] Vision for an OSGeo education program

[Charlie Schweik]

Hi all,

We have a grant proposal under review right now that, if funded, would
allow us to have regular meetings over the next four years at FOSS4G Europe
with both an education and research focus. It's always a long shot that
this will come in, but this is a proposal that we have submitted and
revised several times now. We probably won't hear until January or
February. But regardless, we should start to think about what we can do on
this front at FOSS4G 2017 (Boston) and at the next FOSS4G Europe
conference.

But this discussion is starting to develop a framework for moving forward
on this front. I'm going to save them and cross our fingers that this
funding comes in. But even if it doesn't, I think we should consider
developing panels at FOSS4G that builds toward these ideas.

Cheers,

Charlie

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Cameron Shorter 
wrote:

> 
>
> Randal,
>
> I love your OSGeo educational vision. Its practical, it has a clear
> vision, it sounds achievable, it is something which could start small and
> then scale, and I think it has the potential to inspire people to
> contribute to it. If it attracts a few motivated and driven contributors, I
> believe it has all the hallmarks of a successful Open Source project [1]. I
> want in!
>
> I can also help out with setting up processes and reviewing documentation.
>
> I think the first step to work out is our vision, and then clearly define
> our first few releases, ensuring they are achievable. Randal, you've made a
> great start on that. Maybe something like:
>
> * Simple for teachers to use.
>
> * Focus on quality over quantity
>
> * Has clear teaching goals.
>
> * Makes use of cool, inspiring use cases that kids will connect with and
> find relevant.
>
> * Maybe a really engaging use case would be to allow kids to add the
> school's basketball hoop to Open Street Map, and then know that their
> contribution will be around forever
>
> * Re content, are there national or international learning guides we can
> trace back to? If proprietary vendors are linking back to these, and we do
> the same, it will provide opportunities for teachers to mix-and-match
> classes, similar to switching applications which all access datasets using
> the same WMS standard.
>
> One of the key requirements we are going to need is user feedback. Having
> teachers report back on the success of their classes, describing what
> they'd like to achieve so that we can help implement it for them. Randal,
> as you appear to have already built that connection, I suggest you'd be the
> best person to start defining what the first classes should look like?
>
> What should be our first target audience? What age group? Who is prepared
> to drive that?
>
>
> [1] http://cameronshorter.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/memoirs-of-cat-herder-
> coordinating.html
>
> On 29/10/2016 1:54 AM, Randal Hale wrote:
>
> The way I look at it - and this is from watching Teachers at the school:
> Imagine getting a disk full of software. Have a colleague come over and
> repeatedly poke you in the head while you try to figure out what is on the
> disk and where the instructions are. In a few more minutes have someone
> come over and start singing while you are getting poked in the head. Maybe
> someone pours water in your shoe in another 2 minutes.
>
> It needs to be that simple. That's what the ESRI folk are doing "Lessons,
> 'free', and here is the Documentation".
>
> Simple: software, x directories with x lessons.
>
> A giant Red button with "Don't Panic" in nice friendly letters.
>
>
>
> On 10/28/2016 10:39 AM, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>
> So according to Randal, to reach out to schools we need a scaled-down and
> lighter OSGeo-Live build (probably without the server side applications),
> with different documentation included. Maybe based on Edubuntu?
>
> I volunteer to make a custom OSGeo-Live iso for kids, but we will need
> lots of feedback and volunteers to shape up a new documentation.
>
> Last year I had the chance to teach several hours of OpenStreetMap to
> school kids in a municipality initiative and I can totally agree that
> things are different with kids. They did not seem to have much difficulty
> with the OSGeo-Live UI, but we ended up playing with iD and less with
> desktop applications, like josm.
>
> just my 2c
>
> Angelos
>
>
> On 10/28/2016 04:55 PM, Randal Hale wrote:
>
> If I can just chime in (I told my cat I wasn't).
>
> The kicker in this is ESRI is deeply entrenched everywhere. They've entire
> groups of people just focused on "giving to schools". I was at the helm of
> rolling out a full ESRI rollout to a school in 2012. We had a 50 seat lab
> setup. I ended up moving them over to FOSS4G 2 years ago - and I need to go
> back and update their setup (they don't know how). The school is Title 1
> (which means the school is very poor). The computers are better than what
> they normally get - BUT - they will be using them longer than what they
> need to. They 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Vision for an OSGeo education program

[Suchith Anand]

Many thanks to Chris Tucker who has come forward to help us on the social media 
(twitter etc).

Except LinkedIn (which i have an account but i am struggling keeping up!) my 
knowledge of social media is low, so i request Chris and others who have 
expertise in this to take lead, setup accounts for GeoForAll and setup 
guidelines and use them. We need 2 or 3 volunteers to support Chris on this.

I remember discussing social media with Ela (Poland) some time back but i don't 
thing there  was any developments after that. But now seeing all these students 
even from developing countries making use of social media as their main 
platform for communication, i think we have reach out and have strong presence 
in this.

So please contact Chris (tuc...@mapstory.org) and take this forward.

Best wishes,

Suchith


From: Anand Suchith
Sent: 29 October 2016 5:00 AM
To: Gert-Jan van der Weijden - Stichting OSGeo.nl; 'Cameron Shorter'; 'Randal 
Hale'
Cc: discuss@lists.osgeo.org; geofor...@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Vision for an OSGeo education program

I would also request the OSGeo community to help us with the social media 
presence for GeoForAll. GeoForAll has website but no social media accounts as 
of now. So i request volunteers to come forward and manage our GeoForAll social 
media (Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn etc).

Best wishes,

Suchith


From: Discuss  on behalf of Suchith Anand 

Sent: 29 October 2016 4:02 AM
To: Gert-Jan van der Weijden - Stichting OSGeo.nl; 'Cameron Shorter'; 'Randal 
Hale'
Cc: discuss@lists.osgeo.org; geofor...@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Vision for an OSGeo education program

Excellent to see all these ideas coming in.  +1 for simplicity. One of things i 
learned talking to students from India to Africa to Europe is that they are all 
using QGIS  . In Spanish speaking regions this might be different (gvSIG) . 
Students  are not using the 50 + software that is available in OSGeo Live and 
they are not interested in all of them.

I also learnt that students (esp.  in developing countries) download the 
software  usually from their university network and  then share it in USBs, so 
in fact one student who downloads one copy of QGIS is making thousands of 
copies . So scale of expansion is huge.

In fact, having a properitery vendor is really good as now students and staff 
really appreciate the value of free and open source software like QGIS and they 
are empowered to share it with their fellow students.

Thanks Cameron, Angelos, Randal, Jeff , Gert-Jan and everyone who are 
contributing new ideas for planning our future expansion in education.

Best wishes,

Suchith

From: Discuss  on behalf of Gert-Jan van der 
Weijden - Stichting OSGeo.nl 
Sent: 28 October 2016 8:52 PM
To: 'Cameron Shorter'; 'Randal Hale'
Cc: discuss@lists.osgeo.org; geofor...@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Vision for an OSGeo education program

Cameron, Rabndal,


Not just for kids in schools, but for any outreach towards new potential users 
(of any age) a stripped-down version of OSGeo-Live can fulfil an important role.
Supplying the OSGeo-Live user with 7 desktop FOSS4G products, 8 browser based 
GIS-es, 15 webservice-oriented pieces of software etc.  is a bit overwhelming.

In the field of webdesign Steve Krug's  "Don't make me think" [1] is a 
classical saying  , just as "less is more" is in architecture.

Of course , it's hard and trivial to make a selection. But Stripping the 
OSGeo-Live DVD down to a Live CD (or CD Single?)

Main selection criteria should be the easy of use of individual packages and 
the ease of combining a few packages.
Not necessarily the packages with the best performance, the most functions etc.


Kind regards,

Gert-Jan




Van: Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] Namens Cameron Shorter
Verzonden: vrijdag 28 oktober 2016 21:31
Aan: Randal Hale; discuss@lists.osgeo.org; geofor...@lists.osgeo.org
Onderwerp: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Vision for an OSGeo education program




Randal,

I love your OSGeo educational vision. Its practical, it has a clear vision, it 
sounds achievable, it is something which could start small and then scale, and 
I think it has the potential to inspire people to contribute to it. If it 
attracts a few motivated and driven contributors, I believe it has all the 
hallmarks of a successful Open Source project [1]. I want in!

I can also help out with setting up processes and reviewing documentation.

I think the first step to work out is our vision, and then clearly define our 
first few releases, ensuring they are achievable. Randal, you've made a great 
start on that. Maybe something like:

* Simple for teachers to use.

* Focus on quality over quantity

* Has clear teaching 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Geo4All] Vision for an OSGeo education program

[Suchith Anand]

Yes, we are making use of all opportunities to promote GeoForAll ideas and i 
don't think any properitery vendor can stop  GeoMentors from promoting 
GeoForAll ideas on the sidelines :-)  or stopping students from using GIS Day 
to promote GeoForAll [even though that was not at all  the properitery vendor's 
original intention].

So we welcome all efforts from everyone in prompting geoeducation opportunities 
for all :-)

Best wishes,

Suchith




From: GeoForAll  on behalf of Massimiliano 
Cannata 
Sent: 29 October 2016 7:15 AM
To: Nikos Lambrinos
Cc: OsGeo, GeoForAll
Subject: Re: [Geo4All] Vision for an OSGeo education program

Thanks Nicos for the arguments you put in the table.
A provocative question... Why a teacher using a web application to teach and 
produce a map should care if the server use open source or not?

More, esri pushing geospatial need and industry is working also for us ;-)

Maxi

Il 29 ott 2016 12:28 AM, > 
ha scritto:

Dear all,

I follow your emails these days and I can see two things: a) enthusiasm and b) 
anger.
The first is good the second is bad. Both are reasonable. They are generated 
from a kind of an undeclared war between proprietary and FOS Software.
I have the feeling that many of us feel ready to declare war against 
proprietary software but ... don't do it. We need it. Propriery software makes 
us priceless. We do need something to compare with.
Someone wrote that ESRI has a lot of people working on GIS and education. So do 
we.
The problem lies on how we are organized. ESRI looks better organized than we 
are. They are focused and they know where to strike first and how. We don't.
Take a look at the emails. Each one is talking either about middle or high 
school and (in my turn) I would talk about primary school. Each level has its 
own needs.
What do we want from the teachers and from their students? It isn't enough to 
show them how to use GIS. We have to convince them that they need GIS. This is 
what ESRI is doing. In order to do so we have to show them a very simple way to 
use it. ESRI gives free licenses, we give free software. So, we give more.
Teachers and especially students love to show the results of their work. If 
they have to take many courses and 10s of teaching hours (no matter if it is 
webinars or f2f courses) then many of them may get disappointed or consider GIS 
difficult to begin with. Because they don't get quick results (for example a 
newly constructed map).
In my opinion, we have to begin building a real global network with schools of 
any level of education. This is something I had proposed few months ago but I 
got almost no answer. We can do that the same way that GeoForAll was built. 
With patience and vision.
I am almost 23 years talking about GIS in school teachers (starting back in 
1994) and I think that the difference was made since the beginning of web 
mapping. This is because they can see their efforts go public. Everyone loves 
publicity. It will be easier to go from the very simple keystrokes of web 
mapping to more complicated procedures (teachers don't like much 
georeferrencing systems etc) of GIS.
Who thinks that we can start with these two thngs? a) forming a well organized 
global school network and b) web mapping as a starter?
We have to have system and patience.

Best wishes
Nikos




--
Δρ. Νίκος Λαμπρινός
Αναπληρωτής Καθηγητής
Τμήμα Δημοτικής Εκπαίδευσης
Α.Π.Θ. 54124 Θεσσαλονίκη
Τηλ.: 2310 991201 / 991230
Email: labri...@eled.auth.gr
Web Page:   http://users.auth.gr/labrinos/
http://www.digital-earth.edu.gr/
https://www.auth.gr/univUnits

-
Dr. Nikos Lambrinos
Associate Professor
Faculty of Education
School of Primary Education
Dept. of Science and New Technologies
Aristotle University of Thessaloniki
GR-54124 Thessaloniki, Greece
Tel: +30 2310 991201
Email: labri...@eled.auth.gr
Web Page:   http://users.auth.gr/labrinos/
http://www.digital-earth.edu.gr/
https://www.auth.gr/en/univUnits

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