Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] South African safety situation
Paolo Cavallini wrote: Hi all. I'm informed, both from the newspapers and from South African friends, that there are serious concerns about safety in South Africa. Of course this will not affect FOSS4G directly, but I'm sure many of us are planning to have some holidays before or after the conference, so not being able to tour around freely will detract much from the appeal of the conference. This could result in less participation, thus in turn in lower general interest. I spent a good deal of time in South Africa in 2006 and I agree that "safety" is something to be concerned about. And as long as you are concerned and aware I would not let it spoil your visit. Capetown is very well set up for tourists and visitors; you can let your comfort level dictate what else you want to do. - Hike up table top mountain - pretty safe but bring water - Take the gondola up the mountain - pretty safe unless you are afraid of heights - Food in the harbour next to the tall ships - yum - Tour a township - pretty safe and some interesting history - Drive into a township and walk around - not so safe, take a tour - Shark cage diving - mostly safe (but the Atlantic is cold) - Skydiving - not so safe Any news or indications from local organizers? I think this is a problem that should be dealt with, for the best success of the meeting. All the best. I recommend heading along the "garden route" if you are up for a road trip; there are lots of nice bed and breakfasts to stay in etc... Cavallini you are from Italy? Capetown will be much easier than Naples. Jody ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] South African safety situation
Hi Paolo M, you're writing from Brazil, right? Just to add a byline to my previous post: As usual the media is presenting the sensational side of things. For a more positive view of SA see http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/ Gavin From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Paulo Marcondes Sent: Fri 2008/05/30 04:14 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] South African safety situation 2008/5/30 Lucena, Ivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Gavin, My South Africans friends here in the US and I are deeply concern about that situation too. I just wanted to add that thanks to economic growth and social reforms, Brazil is now a moving target on what concern wealth concentration index. Brazilian business, factories and agriculture are investing now in Africa. I hope that Word Cup, tourism, conferences and other business could bring more opportunities to South African of all ethnicity and that will result in peace and prosperity. Gavin and Ivan, The last 14 years have been extremely profitable for banks and financial investors. So, I an quite pessimist regarding wealth distribution. Also, there are some concerns regarding the political climate here. Many seem it as getting more and more unfriendly to private property and civil liberties. For instance, what you call realID is a reality here since unremembered times, and that is also a police issued document. No one seems to give a rat's ass about that. talk about police state... we are far more down that road than the US, or even the UK, AFAIK. The only thing we don't have so far is a no-fly list. the cup is half empty, -- Paulo Marcondes = PU1/PU2PIX -22.915 -42.224 = GG86jc <>___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] South African safety situation
2008/5/30 Lucena, Ivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Gavin, > > My South Africans friends here in the US and I are deeply concern about > that situation too. I just wanted to add that thanks to economic growth and > social reforms, Brazil is now a moving target on what concern wealth > concentration index. Brazilian business, factories and agriculture are > investing now in Africa. I hope that Word Cup, tourism, conferences and > other business could bring more opportunities to South African of all > ethnicity and that will result in peace and prosperity. > Gavin and Ivan, The last 14 years have been extremely profitable for banks and financial investors. So, I an quite pessimist regarding wealth distribution. Also, there are some concerns regarding the political climate here. Many seem it as getting more and more unfriendly to private property and civil liberties. For instance, what you call realID is a reality here since unremembered times, and that is also a police issued document. No one seems to give a rat's ass about that. talk about police state... we are far more down that road than the US, or even the UK, AFAIK. The only thing we don't have so far is a no-fly list. the cup is half empty, -- Paulo Marcondes = PU1/PU2PIX -22.915 -42.224 = GG86jc ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] South African safety situation
Gavin, My South Africans friends here in the US and I are deeply concern about that situation too. I just wanted to add that thanks to economic growth and social reforms, Brazil is now a moving target on what concern wealth concentration index. Brazilian business, factories and agriculture are investing now in Africa. I hope that Word Cup, tourism, conferences and other business could bring more opportunities to South African of all ethnicity and that will result in peace and prosperity. Ivan Gavin Fleming wrote: Hi all and thanks for bringing it up Paolo Yes we are sadly going through a spate of unrest and criminal violence in poverty-stricken neighbourhoods in South Africa, mainly against foreigners from other parts of Africa. 'xenophobic attacks' as they are labelled. Believe me, we have to and will get things right - while FOSS4G is a small community, the whole world is gearing up for the 2010 World Cup in SA. It has not affected tourists and visitors although some are obviously scared to come at the moment, and it is abating. Of course this situation and the complexities giving rise to it are experienced in other countries, developed and developing, and are not unique to South Africa. Many of the conference topics indeed attempt to address the root causes of situations like this. South Africa recently overtook Brazil as the country with the highest Gini coefficient, which is nothing to be proud of. This disparity in wealth distribution despite high levels of so-called economic 'growth' is one of the root causes of dissatisfaction leading to the current situation here. We also have by some estimates between 5 and 10 million immigrants, labourers and refugees, mainly from Zimbabwe recently but really from all over Africa on top of a local population of about 45 million. These things coupled with our apartheid history and recent transformation are what make South Africa a fascinating destination and subject of research for people from all over the world. So we hope people will come for some of these reasons and to have a say in solving some of these challenges. As it affects potential FOSS4G 2008 delegates, I suggest be aware of the situation but don't let it put you off. Our tourism numbers are increasing at about 9% per year and last year was another record in terms of numbers of overseas visitors. South Africa is a top international big conference venue. Cape Town is a tourist mecca rivalling Paris, Sydney, Vancouver etc. The City of Cape Town, the conference centre and environs are safe. Whatever appeals to you as a tourist, travelling far and wide in South Africa and even neighbouring countries, be it our fantastic wildlife and scenery, backpacking, local culture, immersing yourself in township life, shark-cage diving, whale-watching, whatever, you are bound to have a great conference and memorable travels in South Africa. Gavin FOSS4G 2008 conference chair -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paolo Cavallini Sent: 30 May 2008 09:27 AM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] South African safety situation Hi all. I'm informed, both from the newspapers and from South African friends, that there are serious concerns about safety in South Africa. Of course this will not affect FOSS4G directly, but I'm sure many of us are planning to have some holidays before or after the conference, so not being able to tour around freely will detract much from the appeal of the conference. This could result in less participation, thus in turn in lower general interest. Any news or indications from local organizers? I think this is a problem that should be dealt with, for the best success of the meeting. All the best. pc ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] South African safety situation
It is a source of shame for most South Africans that this wave of xenophobia-driven violence is happening inside our country. The reasons for it are not entirely clear, but it seems to have settled down almost as rapidly as it sprung up. It does not have any element of being state-backed violence (e.g. Darfur) or anything like that. News reports this morning were describing how displaced foreigners are already re-integrating with their communities and getting back to their daily lives. Bizarre. It has certainly been a wake up call for our politicians (so they say), but on a more human level, the response from many ordinary folk has been great - donations of money, food, clothes etc have poured in and people have been lending a helping hand. Actually, this is what South Africa is often about - people responding with warmth and generosity of spirit to great adversities. I would suggest that the travel situation to and through South Africa at the moment is largely unaffected, though each person needs to keep their own "safe-travel radar" active. The average tourist will likely not go to the areas affected, unless interested in seeing the situation for themselves. And to echo Gavin, these things need to be addressed and understood better. There is a clear socio-political dimension to the problems (of a very spatial nature), hence some of the conference themes. Graeme -- This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard. The full disclaimer details can be found at http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html. This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks Transtec Computers for their support. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] South African safety situation
Looking at my African travel experience I doubt that this will really affect us. The violence is mostly against people who are "stealing" jobs in the eyes of some South-Africans, so tourists should be relatively safe. I would be more worried if I would be planning a cruise on the coast of Somalia. Compare South-Africa to Zimbabwe, last year I was 1 month in Zimbabwe and did not experience anything negative, besides all the power and water cuts. This year, before going to FOSS4G2008, I'll visit Zimbabwe again for 3 weeks, even though the stories you hear about Zimbabwe are worse than SA. As long as you are not politically involved, the situation should still be safe in Zimbabwe I believe. Best regards, Bart On Fri, 30 May 2008 09:26:50 +0200, Paolo Cavallini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all. > I'm informed, both from the newspapers and from South African friends, > that there are serious concerns about safety in South Africa. Of course > this will not affect FOSS4G directly, but I'm sure many of us are > planning to have some holidays before or after the conference, so not > being able to tour around freely will detract much from the appeal of > the conference. This could result in less participation, thus in turn in > lower general interest. > Any news or indications from local organizers? I think this is a problem > that should be dealt with, for the best success of the meeting. > All the best. > pc > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] South African safety situation
Hi all and thanks for bringing it up Paolo Yes we are sadly going through a spate of unrest and criminal violence in poverty-stricken neighbourhoods in South Africa, mainly against foreigners from other parts of Africa. 'xenophobic attacks' as they are labelled. Believe me, we have to and will get things right - while FOSS4G is a small community, the whole world is gearing up for the 2010 World Cup in SA. It has not affected tourists and visitors although some are obviously scared to come at the moment, and it is abating. Of course this situation and the complexities giving rise to it are experienced in other countries, developed and developing, and are not unique to South Africa. Many of the conference topics indeed attempt to address the root causes of situations like this. South Africa recently overtook Brazil as the country with the highest Gini coefficient, which is nothing to be proud of. This disparity in wealth distribution despite high levels of so-called economic 'growth' is one of the root causes of dissatisfaction leading to the current situation here. We also have by some estimates between 5 and 10 million immigrants, labourers and refugees, mainly from Zimbabwe recently but really from all over Africa on top of a local population of about 45 million. These things coupled with our apartheid history and recent transformation are what make South Africa a fascinating destination and subject of research for people from all over the world. So we hope people will come for some of these reasons and to have a say in solving some of these challenges. As it affects potential FOSS4G 2008 delegates, I suggest be aware of the situation but don't let it put you off. Our tourism numbers are increasing at about 9% per year and last year was another record in terms of numbers of overseas visitors. South Africa is a top international big conference venue. Cape Town is a tourist mecca rivalling Paris, Sydney, Vancouver etc. The City of Cape Town, the conference centre and environs are safe. Whatever appeals to you as a tourist, travelling far and wide in South Africa and even neighbouring countries, be it our fantastic wildlife and scenery, backpacking, local culture, immersing yourself in township life, shark-cage diving, whale-watching, whatever, you are bound to have a great conference and memorable travels in South Africa. Gavin FOSS4G 2008 conference chair -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paolo Cavallini Sent: 30 May 2008 09:27 AM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] South African safety situation Hi all. I'm informed, both from the newspapers and from South African friends, that there are serious concerns about safety in South Africa. Of course this will not affect FOSS4G directly, but I'm sure many of us are planning to have some holidays before or after the conference, so not being able to tour around freely will detract much from the appeal of the conference. This could result in less participation, thus in turn in lower general interest. Any news or indications from local organizers? I think this is a problem that should be dealt with, for the best success of the meeting. All the best. pc ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] South African safety situation
Hi, I'm happy you feel concerned about that. So do I, and even if I'm not frightened for my own safety, going in a country where such things are happenning put me in a real trouble. I know it can be silly to avoid the trip because of that, but I can't really figure out how to travel there in complete unconsciousness. Guillaume Paolo Cavallini a écrit : Hi all. I'm informed, both from the newspapers and from South African friends, that there are serious concerns about safety in South Africa. Of course this will not affect FOSS4G directly, but I'm sure many of us are planning to have some holidays before or after the conference, so not being able to tour around freely will detract much from the appeal of the conference. This could result in less participation, thus in turn in lower general interest. Any news or indications from local organizers? I think this is a problem that should be dealt with, for the best success of the meeting. All the best. pc ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] South African safety situation
Hi all. I'm informed, both from the newspapers and from South African friends, that there are serious concerns about safety in South Africa. Of course this will not affect FOSS4G directly, but I'm sure many of us are planning to have some holidays before or after the conference, so not being able to tour around freely will detract much from the appeal of the conference. This could result in less participation, thus in turn in lower general interest. Any news or indications from local organizers? I think this is a problem that should be dealt with, for the best success of the meeting. All the best. pc ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
