Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Frank Warmerdam 
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Andrea Aime
 wrote:
> However... maybe someone should push the OSGeo community to send private
> nominations more?

Andrea,

I don't have a strong position on public vs. private, but I will
note we are receiving lots of private nominations, as is
the case each year.

Best regards,
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Jeff McKenna 
On 12-09-18 4:34 PM, Andrea Aime wrote:
> 
> However... maybe someone should push the OSGeo community to send private
> nominations more?
> I have no idea, no raw data, but in the years I have had the impression
> that the
> importance of nomination period could be stressed more, thus getting more
> nominations and as a result a better sampling from the community.
> 
>

As usual Andrea, you read my mind.  I often find that sometimes you must
make a public mistake (and sure I have made lots) to "wake up" the
community (all of a sudden those lurkers post responses, it's really
like magic). So, my point is, now we should see lots and lots of
nominations sent to solkatzaw...@osgeo.org :)

-jeff



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Andrea Aime 
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Daniel Morissette  wrote:

> While I am all for openness in general, I share Howard's concerns in this
> specific case and think we should continue with private nominations.
>

Agreed (for what is worth). It would be sad if we started seeing sorts of
"mass voting" against
a nomination thread, mostly because it would look a lot like a political
election
(my idea of the Soul Katz Award is that OSGeo is looking for an excellence
which is
not necessarily the one of just being popular, thought of course
strong commitment
in the community has that "side effect")

However... maybe someone should push the OSGeo community to send private
nominations more?
I have no idea, no raw data, but in the years I have had the impression
that the
importance of nomination period could be stressed more, thus getting more
nominations and as a result a better sampling from the community.

Just rambling here, don't take me too seriously :-p

Cheers
Andrea

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Daniel Morissette 
While I am all for openness in general, I share Howard's concerns in 
this specific case and think we should continue with private nominations.


Daniel


On 12-09-18 11:15 AM, Howard Butler wrote:


On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Richard Greenwood  
wrote:


I agree that this is the first year that nominations have been
publicly discussed and it is a departure from previous years. I
followed Jeff's lead when I nominated Chris.

But hey, we're an open community, I think it's even in the name
somewhere. And spreading a little recognition around to hard working
members of our community surely doesn't hurt.


I disagree. The history of the award has been a cloistered deliberation of 
private nominations. The award is not a political exercise, or at least it 
hasn't been to this point, and public nominations tip things toward the 
lobbying direction. Every open source contributor wouldn't mind an award in the 
field of excellence, and every contributor deserves a pat on the back or two.

Open nominations opens up a more than few cans of worms:

- I won't say some stuff about a person in a public nomination that I would in 
a private one. First off, I don't want to embarrass them, as some people are 
embarrassed by public fawning.

- Not every activity and action needs to be billboarded. If you look at the 
list of past winners, a common trait they all share is they all have kept their 
heads down and done a lot for the community as whole without regard to 
recognition.

- I might not want everyone to know who I'm nominating.

- Are we voting on the award? Lobbying the committee? What does a public 
nomination achieve other than to provide a (biased) public attaboy? There are 
plenty of opportunities for those that do not have to be conflated with a 
nomination process.

The award is selected by an exclusive group of individuals, and this act makes 
it an exclusive award. The Oscar or Peabody or Pulitzer of open source GIS is 
much more interesting than the People's Choice. Let's keep it that way.

Howard
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Michael P. Gerlek 
+1

-mpg



On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:15 AM, Howard Butler  wrote:
> I disagree. The history of the award has been a cloistered deliberation of 
> private nominations. The award is not a political exercise, or at least it 
> hasn't been to this point, and public nominations tip things toward the 
> lobbying direction. Every open source contributor wouldn't mind an award in 
> the field of excellence, and every contributor deserves a pat on the back or 
> two.
> 
> Open nominations opens up a more than few cans of worms:
> 
> - I won't say some stuff about a person in a public nomination that I would 
> in a private one. First off, I don't want to embarrass them, as some people 
> are embarrassed by public fawning.
> 
> - Not every activity and action needs to be billboarded. If you look at the 
> list of past winners, a common trait they all share is they all have kept 
> their heads down and done a lot for the community as whole without regard to 
> recognition. 
> 
> - I might not want everyone to know who I'm nominating.
> 
> - Are we voting on the award? Lobbying the committee? What does a public 
> nomination achieve other than to provide a (biased) public attaboy? There are 
> plenty of opportunities for those that do not have to be conflated with a 
> nomination process.
> 
> The award is selected by an exclusive group of individuals, and this act 
> makes it an exclusive award. The Oscar or Peabody or Pulitzer of open source 
> GIS is much more interesting than the People's Choice. Let's keep it that way.
> 
> Howard
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Jorge Gaspar Sanz Salinas 
El 18/09/2012 17:15, "Howard Butler"  escribió:
>
>
> On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Richard Greenwood <
richard.greenw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I agree that this is the first year that nominations have been
> > publicly discussed and it is a departure from previous years. I
> > followed Jeff's lead when I nominated Chris.
> >
> > But hey, we're an open community, I think it's even in the name
> > somewhere. And spreading a little recognition around to hard working
> > members of our community surely doesn't hurt.
>
> I disagree. The history of the award has been a cloistered deliberation
of private nominations. The award is not a political exercise, or at least
it hasn't been to this point, and public nominations tip things toward the
lobbying direction. Every open source contributor wouldn't mind an award in
the field of excellence, and every contributor deserves a pat on the back
or two.
>
> Open nominations opens up a more than few cans of worms:
>
> - I won't say some stuff about a person in a public nomination that I
would in a private one. First off, I don't want to embarrass them, as some
people are embarrassed by public fawning.
>
> - Not every activity and action needs to be billboarded. If you look at
the list of past winners, a common trait they all share is they all have
kept their heads down and done a lot for the community as whole without
regard to recognition.
>
> - I might not want everyone to know who I'm nominating.
>
> - Are we voting on the award? Lobbying the committee? What does a public
nomination achieve other than to provide a (biased) public attaboy? There
are plenty of opportunities for those that do not have to be conflated with
a nomination process.
>
> The award is selected by an exclusive group of individuals, and this act
makes it an exclusive award. The Oscar or Peabody or Pulitzer of open
source GIS is much more interesting than the People's Choice. Let's keep it
that way.
>
> Howard

+1

Best,
Jorge
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Puneet Kishor 
With Howard.



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Puneet Kishor
science, data, policy... yeah

On Sep 18, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Howard Butler  wrote:

> 
> On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Richard Greenwood  
> wrote:
> 
>> I agree that this is the first year that nominations have been
>> publicly discussed and it is a departure from previous years. I
>> followed Jeff's lead when I nominated Chris.
>> 
>> But hey, we're an open community, I think it's even in the name
>> somewhere. And spreading a little recognition around to hard working
>> members of our community surely doesn't hurt.
> 
> I disagree. The history of the award has been a cloistered deliberation of 
> private nominations. The award is not a political exercise, or at least it 
> hasn't been to this point, and public nominations tip things toward the 
> lobbying direction. Every open source contributor wouldn't mind an award in 
> the field of excellence, and every contributor deserves a pat on the back or 
> two.
> 
> Open nominations opens up a more than few cans of worms:
> 
> - I won't say some stuff about a person in a public nomination that I would 
> in a private one. First off, I don't want to embarrass them, as some people 
> are embarrassed by public fawning.
> 
> - Not every activity and action needs to be billboarded. If you look at the 
> list of past winners, a common trait they all share is they all have kept 
> their heads down and done a lot for the community as whole without regard to 
> recognition. 
> 
> - I might not want everyone to know who I'm nominating.
> 
> - Are we voting on the award? Lobbying the committee? What does a public 
> nomination achieve other than to provide a (biased) public attaboy? There are 
> plenty of opportunities for those that do not have to be conflated with a 
> nomination process.
> 
> The award is selected by an exclusive group of individuals, and this act 
> makes it an exclusive award. The Oscar or Peabody or Pulitzer of open source 
> GIS is much more interesting than the People's Choice. Let's keep it that way.
> 
> Howard
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Eli Adam 
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Fawcett, David (MPCA)
 wrote:
> I am completely with Howard on this.  +1

Same here, +1

http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Sol_Katz_Award#Process
In past years, it seemed that only the rather small selection
committee has known who did not win the Sol Katz award.  In fact, did
all nominees even know they were nominated?  (Presumably the winner
was contacted in advance to coordinate their presence at the award
ceremony and perhaps give them a slight notice to prepare something to
say.)

Eli

>
> -Original Message-
> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
> [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Howard Butler
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 10:15 AM
> To: Richard Greenwood
> Cc: OSGeo Discussions
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was 
> Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)
>
>
> On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Richard Greenwood  
> wrote:
>
>> I agree that this is the first year that nominations have been
>> publicly discussed and it is a departure from previous years. I
>> followed Jeff's lead when I nominated Chris.
>>
>> But hey, we're an open community, I think it's even in the name
>> somewhere. And spreading a little recognition around to hard working
>> members of our community surely doesn't hurt.
>
> I disagree. The history of the award has been a cloistered deliberation of 
> private nominations. The award is not a political exercise, or at least it 
> hasn't been to this point, and public nominations tip things toward the 
> lobbying direction. Every open source contributor wouldn't mind an award in 
> the field of excellence, and every contributor deserves a pat on the back or 
> two.
>
> Open nominations opens up a more than few cans of worms:
>
> - I won't say some stuff about a person in a public nomination that I would 
> in a private one. First off, I don't want to embarrass them, as some people 
> are embarrassed by public fawning.
>
> - Not every activity and action needs to be billboarded. If you look at the 
> list of past winners, a common trait they all share is they all have kept 
> their heads down and done a lot for the community as whole without regard to 
> recognition.
>
> - I might not want everyone to know who I'm nominating.
>
> - Are we voting on the award? Lobbying the committee? What does a public 
> nomination achieve other than to provide a (biased) public attaboy? There are 
> plenty of opportunities for those that do not have to be conflated with a 
> nomination process.
>
> The award is selected by an exclusive group of individuals, and this act 
> makes it an exclusive award. The Oscar or Peabody or Pulitzer of open source 
> GIS is much more interesting than the People's Choice. Let's keep it that way.
>
> Howard
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>
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Fawcett, David (MPCA) 
I am completely with Howard on this.  +1

-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] 
On Behalf Of Howard Butler
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 10:15 AM
To: Richard Greenwood
Cc: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was 
Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)


On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Richard Greenwood  
wrote:

> I agree that this is the first year that nominations have been 
> publicly discussed and it is a departure from previous years. I 
> followed Jeff's lead when I nominated Chris.
> 
> But hey, we're an open community, I think it's even in the name 
> somewhere. And spreading a little recognition around to hard working 
> members of our community surely doesn't hurt.

I disagree. The history of the award has been a cloistered deliberation of 
private nominations. The award is not a political exercise, or at least it 
hasn't been to this point, and public nominations tip things toward the 
lobbying direction. Every open source contributor wouldn't mind an award in the 
field of excellence, and every contributor deserves a pat on the back or two.

Open nominations opens up a more than few cans of worms:

- I won't say some stuff about a person in a public nomination that I would in 
a private one. First off, I don't want to embarrass them, as some people are 
embarrassed by public fawning.

- Not every activity and action needs to be billboarded. If you look at the 
list of past winners, a common trait they all share is they all have kept their 
heads down and done a lot for the community as whole without regard to 
recognition. 

- I might not want everyone to know who I'm nominating.

- Are we voting on the award? Lobbying the committee? What does a public 
nomination achieve other than to provide a (biased) public attaboy? There are 
plenty of opportunities for those that do not have to be conflated with a 
nomination process.

The award is selected by an exclusive group of individuals, and this act makes 
it an exclusive award. The Oscar or Peabody or Pulitzer of open source GIS is 
much more interesting than the People's Choice. Let's keep it that way.

Howard
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Jeff McKenna 
Hi Bart,

The process can change each year, but last year each member of the
Selection Committee ranked their top two choices, and the person with
the most first place votes won.

Selection committee members have always been allowed to nominate.

Looking back at old selection committee emails/discussions now, it seems
last year I made a mistake also (I compiled all nominations on a wiki
page - I got a strong wrist slap by all other selection committee members).


-jeff





On 12-09-18 12:05 PM, Bart van den Eijnden wrote:
> I don't want to be a PITA, but I want to bring up another point for
> discussion.
> 
> Is it a good idea for people from the selection committee to be
> nominating? That kind of defeats their "neutral" position.
> 
> Or how does the selection committee normally come to a decision?
> Consensus, voting, something else?
> 

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Mateusz Loskot 
On 18 September 2012 16:15, Howard Butler  wrote:
>
> On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Richard Greenwood  
> wrote:
>
>> I agree that this is the first year that nominations have been
>> publicly discussed and it is a departure from previous years. I
>> followed Jeff's lead when I nominated Chris.
>>
>> But hey, we're an open community, I think it's even in the name
>> somewhere. And spreading a little recognition around to hard working
>> members of our community surely doesn't hurt.
>
> I disagree.
> [...]

+1

Best regards,
-- 
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Howard Butler 

On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Richard Greenwood  
wrote:

> I agree that this is the first year that nominations have been
> publicly discussed and it is a departure from previous years. I
> followed Jeff's lead when I nominated Chris.
> 
> But hey, we're an open community, I think it's even in the name
> somewhere. And spreading a little recognition around to hard working
> members of our community surely doesn't hurt.

I disagree. The history of the award has been a cloistered deliberation of 
private nominations. The award is not a political exercise, or at least it 
hasn't been to this point, and public nominations tip things toward the 
lobbying direction. Every open source contributor wouldn't mind an award in the 
field of excellence, and every contributor deserves a pat on the back or two.

Open nominations opens up a more than few cans of worms:

- I won't say some stuff about a person in a public nomination that I would in 
a private one. First off, I don't want to embarrass them, as some people are 
embarrassed by public fawning.

- Not every activity and action needs to be billboarded. If you look at the 
list of past winners, a common trait they all share is they all have kept their 
heads down and done a lot for the community as whole without regard to 
recognition. 

- I might not want everyone to know who I'm nominating.

- Are we voting on the award? Lobbying the committee? What does a public 
nomination achieve other than to provide a (biased) public attaboy? There are 
plenty of opportunities for those that do not have to be conflated with a 
nomination process.

The award is selected by an exclusive group of individuals, and this act makes 
it an exclusive award. The Oscar or Peabody or Pulitzer of open source GIS is 
much more interesting than the People's Choice. Let's keep it that way.

Howard
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Barry Rowlingson 
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jeff McKenna
 wrote:

> My feelings exactly.  Thanks Rich.

I'm getting deja-vu all over again:

http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2012-July/010662.html

Barry
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Bart van den Eijnden 
I don't want to be a PITA, but I want to bring up another point for discussion.

Is it a good idea for people from the selection committee to be nominating? 
That kind of defeats their "neutral" position.

Or how does the selection committee normally come to a decision? Consensus, 
voting, something else?

Best regards,
Bart

-- 
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OSGIS - http://osgis.nl

On Sep 18, 2012, at 4:58 PM, Jeff McKenna  wrote:

> On 12-09-18 11:53 AM, Richard Greenwood wrote:
>> I agree that this is the first year that nominations have been
>> publicly discussed and it is a departure from previous years. I
>> followed Jeff's lead when I nominated Chris.
>> 
>> But hey, we're an open community, I think it's even in the name
>> somewhere. And spreading a little recognition around to hard working
>> members of our community surely doesn't hurt.
>> 
> 
> My feelings exactly.  Thanks Rich.
> 
> -jeff
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Jeff McKenna 
On 12-09-18 11:53 AM, Richard Greenwood wrote:
> I agree that this is the first year that nominations have been
> publicly discussed and it is a departure from previous years. I
> followed Jeff's lead when I nominated Chris.
> 
> But hey, we're an open community, I think it's even in the name
> somewhere. And spreading a little recognition around to hard working
> members of our community surely doesn't hurt.
> 

My feelings exactly.  Thanks Rich.

-jeff



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[OSGeo-Discuss] Sol Katz Award Nomination procedure (was Nomination for Venkatesh Raghavan)

2012-09-18 Thread Richard Greenwood 
I agree that this is the first year that nominations have been
publicly discussed and it is a departure from previous years. I
followed Jeff's lead when I nominated Chris.

But hey, we're an open community, I think it's even in the name
somewhere. And spreading a little recognition around to hard working
members of our community surely doesn't hurt.

Rich

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Jeff McKenna
 wrote:
> Hi Stefano, Bart, all,
>
> I simply sent my nomination to solkatzaw...@osgeo.org and CC'd Discuss -
> I did this on my own doing.  I don't have a blog, so my opinions are
> posted through mailing lists, so I don't see an issue with posting my
> thoughts here in public.  In fact I am very proud to post my nomination
> for Venka publicly.
>
> Although now it seems I was wrong.
>
> -jeff
>
>
>
> On 12-09-18 11:40 AM, Bart van den Eijnden wrote:
>> Hi Stefano,
>>
>> I share your concerns. This is the first year that this is happening,
>> and it's not outlined at all in the request for nominations.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Bart
>>
>> --
>> Bart van den Eijnden
>> OSGIS - http://osgis.nl
>>
>> On Sep 18, 2012, at 4:09 PM, Stefano Costa > > wrote:
>>
>> Il 18/09/2012 13:51, nicolas bozon ha scritto:
> He is the best OSGeo advocate i know so far.
>>
>> Regardless of the strong merits of Venkatesh (I don't know you
>> personally, but I do agree with others about your exceptional
>> contribution to the community), I wonder if it is really OK to have a
>> public "thumbs up session" for candidates rather than leave it to the
>> committee to decide. Especially towards other potential candidates
>> (there may even be others candidates already, AFAIK, since e-mails
>> have to be submitted to a separate, private address and not to the
>> discussion list).
>>
>> If this sounds over-bureaucratisation of our community standards, I
>> apologise in advance.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> steko
>>
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