Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Craig Miller escribió: > Rupert Essinger designed a visual GIS workflow language in 1991. > http://www.ncgia.ucsb.edu/Publications/Tech_Reports/91/91-6.pdf > > Max Egenhofer designed an entire Direct manipulation UI around Map > Algebra. http://www.spatial.maine.edu/~max/MapAlgebraSurvey.pdf > > Both might be inspiring to someone wishing to have a formal framework > for documenting GIS workflow in a simple and intuitive way. > > > > I?m still unclear on what type of GIS data models the original poster > wants to document as Smallworld, ArcGIS, GRASS, and others all have > quite different approaches to modeling. > > > > If it?s OO data, etc then UML class diagrams work great and don?t need > to be heavy. In software dev there are many tools that keep the data > models in sync with the code, there is no reason why the same thing > couldn?t be created for GIS data modeling. The diagrams could be GIS > independent, with underlying drivers to read/write data models for > particular GIS packages. > > > > If it is a data model, then there are already tools for keeping an > Entity-Relationship Model (ERM) in sync with the data table. Geometry > is just another data type in the Simple Features view of the world. > > > > Craig > I agree Craig. My employer (Prodevelop) has been developing for the Valencian Government (Spain) a modelling software, Moskitt[1]. In fact yesterday I was talking with my colleagues about the possibility of spatial-enabling it adding the geometry type (and other things) to the metamodels. Among other features, at this time you can create a typical "alphanumeric" model with moskitt using UML notation, then transform it to ERM and then create the DDL to several databases. So the work to do is to define the spatial data type (and subtypes) and the traces to ERM and then to DDL. I would also love to see the reverse path: inspect a database schema, create the ERM and then UML models. Cheers [1] http://www.moskitt.org/eng/moskitt0/ - -- Jorge Gaspar Sanz Salinas Ingeniero en Geodesia y Cartografía http://es.osgeo.org http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Jorge_Sanz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJKqKB/AAoJEAOYD75lvHdBPAQH/iNQALFLCmOwBezVPx1xyneX qS1dIetbh0AN24kQ2r5jcEGvjKoG8OO11/o5TMWxtLKvKngScZO+m1cGEvs4CJMT 1mDKIYpaO3DxWeTqQos7fS6JenYOyKYDOZ5AReOEBeKqF5JDDFefrReAC2kGH9DP TpvW9WyNQpDx164xk0l6ESlCUoiaxVMNhWvy55+zGNQRX0uZB5vcdmvkX13DkL2O JqI6+kAgskzAHkQ6N9uqlLWfos2H6R4XbKiWvYzz0p1k7WohS2OVO30Xn5kPsaq3 5EspJ7w7+Yr5b7dNJWkgZtLZiV3t3haWB78ZDptPHSQZGMbAs3NNqe/41+zw6HA= =G6Ng -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF
Rupert Essinger designed a visual GIS workflow language in 1991. http://www.ncgia.ucsb.edu/Publications/Tech_Reports/91/91-6.pdf Max Egenhofer designed an entire Direct manipulation UI around Map Algebra. http://www.spatial.maine.edu/~max/MapAlgebraSurvey.pdf Both might be inspiring to someone wishing to have a formal framework for documenting GIS workflow in a simple and intuitive way. I'm still unclear on what type of GIS data models the original poster wants to document as Smallworld, ArcGIS, GRASS, and others all have quite different approaches to modeling. If it's OO data, etc then UML class diagrams work great and don't need to be heavy. In software dev there are many tools that keep the data models in sync with the code, there is no reason why the same thing couldn't be created for GIS data modeling. The diagrams could be GIS independent, with underlying drivers to read/write data models for particular GIS packages. If it is a data model, then there are already tools for keeping an Entity-Relationship Model (ERM) in sync with the data table. Geometry is just another data type in the Simple Features view of the world. Craig Geospatial Software Architect Spatial Minds, LLC <http://spatialminds.com/> From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Brian Russo Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:49 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF I think it's an interesting problem to solve (Sharing gis models/processes), but... * Way too heavyweight for us, I don't have time/interest to build & maintain sheets of DXFs manually * Of little practical use for us since our processes typically grow pretty organically with small meetings and whiteboards/stickies, eventually we are going to stop maintaining these 'heavy' model diagrams. * Probably more useful for very large teams defining massive workflows with well-defined requirements/outputs, but I don't really work on those types of problems often (nor personally know many that really do anymore - and they'd probably already have some dialect of UML or ERM) * Can't easily convert those DXFs into GDB/DB schemas or into the processes themselves, etc, so hence little use at the tech level It might be more useful to define a simple standardized set of symbols that handles 80% of what we do, and then for more complex processes just lets you name it, treat them like blackboxes and just annotate them or something. Personally I would just probably use simple data flow & entity-relationship diagrams. If there was a simple system that modelled common spatial analysis processes via symbols then I might be interested in that. I'm skeptical on the real world utility of building/maintaining large sets of diagrams that A) Don't fit into the business process generation/capture processes and B) Don't easily convert into the actual code/schemas underlying. Perhaps figure out what the problem you're really trying to solve is. I.e. What am I trying to achieve via sharing models? - bri On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Landon Blake wrote: I posted a few weeks back I posted about possible ways to document and share GIS data models. I decided to move forward with a graphical approach. I started building diagrams to document my GIS data model for the Public Land Survey System in the United States. I am drawing these diagrams in a CAD program. When I get things ironed out I hope to release the following items to the GIS community: - My completed GIS data model in DXF format that can be used as an example or template for other models. - A set of CAD "blocks" that can be used to build similar diagrams. If I like how things come together with the diagrams, I might try converting the diagrams to SVG. The diagrams would be much prettier in SVG, but I am quicker with CAD than I am with Inkscape, and I want to get a prototype completed quickly. This will make a lot more sense when you get to see the example diagrams. I welcome any collaboration on this effort. If there is interest, I could move this discussion to the Standards mailing list. It would be great to get input from interested parties now, while the diagrams are still taking shape. Landon Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF
I think it's an interesting problem to solve (Sharing gis models/processes), but... * Way too heavyweight for us, I don't have time/interest to build & maintain sheets of DXFs manually * Of little practical use for us since our processes typically grow pretty organically with small meetings and whiteboards/stickies, eventually we are going to stop maintaining these 'heavy' model diagrams. * Probably more useful for very large teams defining massive workflows with well-defined requirements/outputs, but I don't really work on those types of problems often (nor personally know many that really do anymore - and they'd probably already have some dialect of UML or ERM) * Can't easily convert those DXFs into GDB/DB schemas or into the processes themselves, etc, so hence little use at the tech level It might be more useful to define a simple standardized set of symbols that handles 80% of what we do, and then for more complex processes just lets you name it, treat them like blackboxes and just annotate them or something. Personally I would just probably use simple data flow & entity-relationship diagrams. If there was a simple system that modelled common spatial analysis processes via symbols then I might be interested in that. I'm skeptical on the real world utility of building/maintaining large sets of diagrams that A) Don't fit into the business process generation/capture processes and B) Don't easily convert into the actual code/schemas underlying. Perhaps figure out what the problem you're really trying to solve is. I.e. What am I trying to achieve via sharing models? - bri On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Landon Blake wrote: > I posted a few weeks back I posted about possible ways to document and > share GIS data models. I decided to move forward with a graphical approach. > > > > I started building diagrams to document my GIS data model for the Public > Land Survey System in the United States. I am drawing these diagrams in a > CAD program. When I get things ironed out I hope to release the following > items to the GIS community: > > > > - My completed GIS data model in DXF format that can be used as > an example or template for other models. > > - A set of CAD “blocks” that can be used to build similar > diagrams. > > > > If I like how things come together with the diagrams, I might try > converting the diagrams to SVG. The diagrams would be much prettier in SVG, > but I am quicker with CAD than I am with Inkscape, and I want to get a > prototype completed quickly. > > > > This will make a lot more sense when you get to see the example diagrams. > > > > I welcome any collaboration on this effort. If there is interest, I could > move this discussion to the Standards mailing list. It would be great to get > input from interested parties now, while the diagrams are still taking > shape. > > > > Landon > > > > > *Warning: > *Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against > defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is > not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you > have received this information in error, please notify the sender > immediately. > > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF
Craig, Because I am working with simple features, the entities I'm modeling are more like tables in a database than they are objects from object-oriented software architecture. My basic set-up is looking something like this: A "sheet" for each simple feature type in the data model. This sheet contains the following elements: - A table describing the features attributes. - A table describing limitations or restrictions on the attribute values. - A table describing any attribute value domains used in the simple feature. - A brief description of the simple feature type. - Notes explaining the creation/extraction, modification, and destruction policies for the simple feature type. I'm thinking there may be two (2) additional sheets for each simple feature type. One of these sheets will contain: - Topology restrictions for this simple feature type. - Data on the spatial relationships this simple feature type participates in. - Data on the temporal relationships this simple feature type participates in. - Data on the relationship with non-spatial entities (tables) that this simple feature type participates in. The second sheet will contain the metadata policy and information on dataset-level and feature-level metadata that should be created and maintained for the simple feature type. I believe there will be similar sheets for the temporal events and non-spatial features in the GIS data model. Some of this is still taking shape in my head. In the end, it is probably going to look and function like a set of civil engineering plans. :] I've just started work on the first sheet I described in this message, which documents the attributes for a simple feature type. Landon Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268 Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658 From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Craig Miller Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:58 PM To: 'OSGeo Discussions' Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF Landon, I missed your previous post. I'm not sure if you are modeling GIS Objects or a relational database but am guessing you are modeling GIS objects. Since I missed the earlier post(s)... Is there a reason why traditional OO diagrams such as UML Class diagrams won't work for the GIS data you are modeling? Craig From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Landon Blake Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:48 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF I posted a few weeks back I posted about possible ways to document and share GIS data models. I decided to move forward with a graphical approach. I started building diagrams to document my GIS data model for the Public Land Survey System in the United States. I am drawing these diagrams in a CAD program. When I get things ironed out I hope to release the following items to the GIS community: - My completed GIS data model in DXF format that can be used as an example or template for other models. - A set of CAD "blocks" that can be used to build similar diagrams. If I like how things come together with the diagrams, I might try converting the diagrams to SVG. The diagrams would be much prettier in SVG, but I am quicker with CAD than I am with Inkscape, and I want to get a prototype completed quickly. This will make a lot more sense when you get to see the example diagrams. I welcome any collaboration on this effort. If there is interest, I could move this discussion to the Standards mailing list. It would be great to get input from interested parties now, while the diagrams are still taking shape. Landon Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF
Landon, I missed your previous post. I'm not sure if you are modeling GIS Objects or a relational database but am guessing you are modeling GIS objects. Since I missed the earlier post(s). Is there a reason why traditional OO diagrams such as UML Class diagrams won't work for the GIS data you are modeling? Craig From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Landon Blake Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:48 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Documenting GIS Data Models (Again): Using DXF I posted a few weeks back I posted about possible ways to document and share GIS data models. I decided to move forward with a graphical approach. I started building diagrams to document my GIS data model for the Public Land Survey System in the United States. I am drawing these diagrams in a CAD program. When I get things ironed out I hope to release the following items to the GIS community: - My completed GIS data model in DXF format that can be used as an example or template for other models. - A set of CAD "blocks" that can be used to build similar diagrams. If I like how things come together with the diagrams, I might try converting the diagrams to SVG. The diagrams would be much prettier in SVG, but I am quicker with CAD than I am with Inkscape, and I want to get a prototype completed quickly. This will make a lot more sense when you get to see the example diagrams. I welcome any collaboration on this effort. If there is interest, I could move this discussion to the Standards mailing list. It would be great to get input from interested parties now, while the diagrams are still taking shape. Landon Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
