Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
On 5/6/08, Christopher Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, May 06, 2008 at 11:00:54PM +0200, Dirk Frigne wrote: On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 08:21:21PM +0200, Arnulf Christl wrote: What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some strange reason all that I do starts with an http://... A Desktop GIS is what you switch to when you realize that the browser makes a really poor operating system, and moving outside of it and using the rest of your computer is important to accomplishing some tasks. I understand your answer, but instead of switching to the desktop GIS only, you should decide to switch to the server in some circumstances for accomplishing some tasks... My response to Arnulf was tongue in cheek: sorry that didn't come across well. Actually, I thought it was a very well put response. It came off very well. Recognizing the boundaries of the capabilities of desktop vs. the browser is perhaps the first step toward making a sane application. A few capabilities port over from one to the other. The ones that don't and yet are force-fitted into the wrong environment make for a very sucky experience. -- Puneet Kishor ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Concerning OpenJump it is really good but I couldn't make a pie chart map with it as I could do with Arcview 3.x I added the charts plugin but I think It doesn't classify the size of charts symbol. Does anyone can do it by any open-source GIS? Mohamed Mostafa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Landon Blake Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:36 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)? A convert! Welcome Jennifer. I can't speak for GRASS, but I know that OpenJUMP (http://jump-pilot.sourceforge.net/OpenJUMP.html) could be compared to the old 3.X Arcview. It has limited printing abilities at this point in time, but I don't think there is a better cross-platform tool for basic ESRI Shapefile manipulation. (I'm a volunteer on the project and therefore biased in my opinion on this matter.) I think you will find you can do 95% of what you could with ESRI software, you'll just have to do it with an assortment of tools instead of a single tool. Landon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jennifer Horsman Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:41 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)? The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
I know this is not OS but GoogleChart is easy to use: http://code.google.com/apis/chart/ http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=p3chd=t:20,40,30,10chs=250x100chl= Hello|World|of|Google and it can be used to add chart icons for use in online mapping interfaces, not necessarily Google's, and not just pie charts. However, as with all of Google stuff the license is a gotcha for most businesses. Adding your own similar chart tool using svg or wpf/Silverlight interfaces would not be much of a problem. Plus you get better scaling with vector graphics along with click/rollover/tooltip... capabilities. Raster Icon charts seem to be a useable approach for map data as discussed here: http://blog.thematicmapping.org/2008/04/using-google-charts-with-kml.html I'd favor vector if you want drill-in capability though. randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mohamed Ghareeb Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 5:14 AM To: 'OSGeo Discussions' Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)? Concerning OpenJump it is really good but I couldn't make a pie chart map with it as I could do with Arcview 3.x I added the charts plugin but I think It doesn't classify the size of charts symbol. Does anyone can do it by any open-source GIS? Mohamed Mostafa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Landon Blake Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:36 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)? A convert! Welcome Jennifer. I can't speak for GRASS, but I know that OpenJUMP (http://jump-pilot.sourceforge.net/OpenJUMP.html) could be compared to the old 3.X Arcview. It has limited printing abilities at this point in time, but I don't think there is a better cross-platform tool for basic ESRI Shapefile manipulation. (I'm a volunteer on the project and therefore biased in my opinion on this matter.) I think you will find you can do 95% of what you could with ESRI software, you'll just have to do it with an assortment of tools instead of a single tool. Landon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jennifer Horsman Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:41 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)? The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
On 26.04.2008 08:44, Cameron Shorter wrote: Ravi, What us Open Source evangelists are missing is an honest comparison between ESRI desktop applications and Open Source equivalents. This has been done somewhat. You might find it interesting reading. --Wolf Original Message Subject: Re: [GRASS-user] [Fwd: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS Tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?] Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:13:49 +0200 From: Markus Metz To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Todd Buchanan compared GRASS and ArcGIS in his master thesis (Geoscience / GIS): Title: Thesis – Comparison of ArcGIS 9.0 and GRASS 6.0: Case Study and Implementation. · Detailed costs and benefits of each GIS and included a comparison of acquisition, installation, implementation, and utilization. · Involved Landsat image classification and analysis of urbanization of Eugene, OR. You can get the thesis here: http://www.toddbuchanan.net/thesis_ver.pdf The thesis used GRASS 6.0 and GRASS became even better since then:-) I would not agree with TB's statement of technical support being virtually non-existent, because you get answers quickly in the mailing lists. I hope that helps, Markus Metz -- :3 ) Wolf Bergenheim ( 8: ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Hi Cameron, the table of comparison is informative. Most of the ARC-GIS users (my personal view) are Vector GIS users. They are concerned of 1. Registration of Paper maps into GIS 2. Attribution 3. Analysis depending on their need. CAD 4. Outputs of the above are also to be plotted in elegant maps with proper symbology and standard colors. As an OSGeo enthusiast I recommend a cocktail of OS GIS software mix. OpenJUMP and Qgis for steps Qgis 1 to 3 Qgis and GRASS for advanced analysis GRASS for statistical analysis with R OpenJUMP and Inkscape for step 4. As a geologist I get oriented structures properly symbolised and rotated (possible in OpenJUMP) Am making some notes and soon wish to offer for downloading through GRASS and OpenJUMP websites. Ravi Kumar Cameron Shorter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ravi, What us Open Source evangelists are missing is an honest comparison between ESRI desktop applications and Open Source equivalents. What is it about ArcView and ArcGIS that people really like, listed feature by feature in a table. Then identify whether Open Source covers it and how. Very important is to address usability. How quickly can an Arc* user migrate to Open Source? My skill set is lacking here as I don't have much experience in either ESRI or the Open Source desktop tools. It seems like you have experience with both which puts you in a unique position. Is this something you, or one of your students would like to investigate further? Maybe build a table similar to this one: http://www.spatialserver.net/osgis/Desktopgis_overview.htm RAVI KUMAR wrote: Hi, this is the kind of question I face when in my lectures evangelising OS GIS. ArcGIS has many tools, though some prefer to call it a deluge of tools, which almost distance the user from understanding the concept of GIS. Auto Complete Polygon: In Qgis which is a very userfriendly OS GIS you have 'Cut polygon', do try and find the difference. Polygonising from lines: Open JUMP has one of the most userfriendly approaches. Create lines and polygonise in OpenJUMP and the software automatically creates a folder for Dangles (un-wanted line pieces) The query is more for Vector GIS, I suppose. GRASS GIS: It has so many features for Image analysis and Raster GIS, the commercial GIS need a barge pole to even touch it. The vector Part of GRASS is robust too. Ravi Kumar */Markus Neteler /* wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:55 PM, George R. C. Silva wrote: ... One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I do miss them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any O.S. software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping options, etc - btw, if you do, let me know). FOSS is great, but it lacks (IMHO) better editing options. We are working on that: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#Digitizer Screenshots: http://grass.osgeo.org/screenshots/gui.php - wxPython (new GUI) You can try out the prototype in GRASS 6.3.0 (released yesterday): http://grass.osgeo.org/announces/announce_grass630.html Get MacOSX, Linux and now even native MS-Windows binaries with *installer* at http://grass.osgeo.org/download/index.php#g63x Enjoy Markus ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Cameron Shorter Geospatial Systems Architect Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050 Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254 Think Globally, Fix Locally Commercial Support for Geospatial Open Source Solutions http://www.lisasoft.com/LISAsoft/SupportedProducts.html ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Hi, IMHO the most barrier for people using OS GIS is the lack of a user friendly interface, especially for map production and digitising. I know that this has been stated before in this thread, but I want stress this point out. I'm working as as supporter and software trainer for a software company and not few of our customers are paying much money for applications, which simplifys/extend the common ArcGIS funcitonallity! Most people are overstrained about the functionallity of GIS software. I think the users of GIS have changed over the past decade. More common people have to work with GIS (especially public servants). GIS has become a common software tool so the users aren't only specialist as some years ago! This new users just want to have a button and that's it. Don't ask them to create a sql string for extracting some data out of a database. So as already mentioned, OS GIS NEEDS as userfriendly Interface, powerful digitizing and map production tools which are easy to use. When these issues have been solved, we will see a strong rising spread of OS GIS software. Just my opinion. Malte PS: I love OS Software, but I just want to see a rising distribution of it! ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
ٍExcellent discussion. I have been an ArcGIS user and now i am transferring to OS. in my opinion, the best point of ArcGIS is that you everything in 1 package = simplifying tasks about OS, at least i see no difference in Web-GIS domain. OS softwares like UMN mapserver and Mapguide OS sometimes work better. in the field of Desktop GIS, although QGIS, GRASS,Sharpmap and other tools are available but in a diverse manner. the main problem is that the most powerful OS sotfware (GRASS) in this area is under Linux not windows (= developing desktop GIS tools sounds very difficult). As announced by GRASS dev group, this problem is gonna solve soon. === OS GIS support most of expected needs from GIS, but sometimes with consuming more time. - Original Message From: Malte Halbey-Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 11:56:26 AM Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)? Hi, IMHO the most barrier for people using OS GIS is the lack of a user friendly interface, especially for map production and digitising. I know that this has been stated before in this thread, but I want stress this point out. I'm working as as supporter and software trainer for a software company and not few of our customers are paying much money for applications, which simplifys/extend the common ArcGIS funcitonallity! Most people are overstrained about the functionallity of GIS software. I think the users of GIS have changed over the past decade. More common people have to work with GIS (especially public servants). GIS has become a common software tool so the users aren't only specialist as some years ago! This new users just want to have a button and that's it. Don't ask them to create a sql string for extracting some data out of a database. So as already mentioned, OS GIS NEEDS as userfriendly Interface, powerful digitizing and map production tools which are easy to use. When these issues have been solved, we will see a strong rising spread of OS GIS software. Just my opinion. Malte PS: I love OS Software, but I just want to see a rising distribution of it! ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
2008/4/26 Saka Royban [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ٍExcellent discussion. I have been an ArcGIS user and now i am transferring to OS. in my opinion, the best point of ArcGIS is that you everything in 1 package = simplifying tasks about OS, at least i see no difference in Web-GIS domain. OS softwares like UMN mapserver and Mapguide OS sometimes work better. in the field of Desktop GIS, although QGIS, GRASS,Sharpmap and other tools are available but in a diverse manner. the main problem is that the most powerful OS sotfware (GRASS) in this area is under Linux not windows (= developing desktop GIS tools sounds very difficult). As announced by GRASS dev group, this problem is gonna solve soon. === OS GIS support most of expected needs from GIS, but sometimes with consuming more time. - Original Message From: Malte Halbey-Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 11:56:26 AM Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)? Hi, IMHO the most barrier for people using OS GIS is the lack of a user friendly interface, especially for map production and digitising. I know that this has been stated before in this thread, but I want stress this point out. I'm working as as supporter and software trainer for a software company and not few of our customers are paying much money for applications, which simplifys/extend the common ArcGIS funcitonallity! Most people are overstrained about the functionallity of GIS software. I think the users of GIS have changed over the past decade. More common people have to work with GIS (especially public servants). GIS has become a common software tool so the users aren't only specialist as some years ago! This new users just want to have a button and that's it. Don't ask them to create a sql string for extracting some data out of a database. So as already mentioned, OS GIS NEEDS as userfriendly Interface, powerful digitizing and map production tools which are easy to use. When these issues have been solved, we will see a strong rising spread of OS GIS software. Just my opinion. Malte PS: I love OS Software, but I just want to see a rising distribution of it! Hi I'm enjoying a lot with that thread as always a Free/Privative comparison appears. But I'm quite surprised because it seems that privative geosoftware is only ESRI, what about Geomedia, ERDAS, ERMapper, Smallworld... for instance IMHO, free desktop GIS is not so far from privative solutions. With nice projects like QGis/GRASS or gvSIG I think we are not far from having almost all the funcitonality any user could need for collecting, analise and output. Creating nice paper outputs for me it's really important (and current user-friendly tools are far from producing acceptable maps) but maybe there are other outputs like SVG, KML or map server configuration files that are really important as the Internet is there and almost all of use use more web maps rather than paper maps. For me, one of the most worrying lacks in FOSS4G is an ArcSDE alternative because at this time there is not way for concurrence corporative database editing. GeoServer project sees that as a long-term project in their roadmap[2][3] but if we want a powerful web-distributed editing we need it right now. Regards [1]http://www.sigte.udg.es/jornadassiglibre/uploads/file/Presentaciones/20.ppt [2]http://geoserver.org/display/GEOS/Roadmap [3]http://geoserver.org/display/GEOS/Open+Source+ArcSDE -- Jorge Gaspar Sanz Salinas Ingeniero en Geodesia y Cartografía http://www.geomaticblog.net http://www.prodevelop.es ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Paul Ramsey ha scritto: I'd buck up for a copy of ArcView (much cheaper than ArcGIS), and use GRASS / PostGIS / etc tools for things like analysis. You can use ArcView to generate the paper and do some quick low-end analytics and the other tools for more involved stuff. A reasonably good replacement for ArcView is also QGIS (which integrates nicely with GRASS, btw). pc -- Paolo Cavallini, see: http://www.faunalia.it/pc Noi ci troviamo con parecchie difficoltà con NGI http://www.ngi.it/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
George R. C. Silva ha scritto: One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I do miss them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any O.S. software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping options, etc - btw, if you do, let me know). Have you tried GRASS and the latest (0.9.2rc1) QGIS for PostGIS editing? pc -- Paolo Cavallini, see: http://www.faunalia.it/pc Noi ci troviamo con parecchie difficoltà con NGI http://www.ngi.it/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Paolo, Among the things that QGIS (and other open source desktops) can't do are a table join, a spatial join, high quality paper output, and symbolized thematic mapping. Particular drawbacks of QGIS include the single-threaded user interface model (ui locks during render, making work with large files very stop-n-go) and relatively simple editing tools. I think it's contingent on us as evangelizers to not over-sell. I would not recommend QGIS or any other open source desktop to someone whose prior experience was Arc* until I had a clear understanding of the use case. In response to the query can I replace ArcView with open source, my answer is in general, no, but maybe for a specific use case. P. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Paolo Cavallini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Ramsey ha scritto: I'd buck up for a copy of ArcView (much cheaper than ArcGIS), and use GRASS / PostGIS / etc tools for things like analysis. You can use ArcView to generate the paper and do some quick low-end analytics and the other tools for more involved stuff. A reasonably good replacement for ArcView is also QGIS (which integrates nicely with GRASS, btw). pc -- Paolo Cavallini, see: http://www.faunalia.it/pc Noi ci troviamo con parecchie difficoltà con NGI http://www.ngi.it/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
On 25.04.2008 17:55, Paul Ramsey wrote: Paolo, Among the things that QGIS (and other open source desktops) can't do are a table join, a spatial join I'm not sure what you mean with spatial join, but if you mean overlay, and raster combination GRASS can do, and it can also do table joins, while it overlays two vector layers. In response to the query can I replace ArcView with open source, my answer is in general, no, but maybe for a specific use case. I'd say: In general yes (In some respects GRASS is superior to Arc in analysis), but some things can be harder / more complicated or not possible. GRASS is a perfectly capable desktop GIS package with over 200 modules. --Wolf -- :3 ) Wolf Bergenheim ( 8: ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Among the things that QGIS (and other open source desktops) can't do are a table join, a spatial join I'm not sure what you mean with spatial join, but if you mean overlay, and raster combination GRASS can do, and it can also do table joins, while it overlays two vector layers. In response to the query can I replace ArcView with open source, my answer is in general, no, but maybe for a specific use case. I'd say: In general yes (In some respects GRASS is superior to Arc in analysis), but some things can be harder / more complicated or not possible. GRASS is a perfectly capable desktop GIS package with over 200 modules. I agree with Paul, power without control doesn't lead anywhere. GRASS is of huge power, but following my past commercial experiences, I would say in general no, because most times they don't want the overhead of GRASS for exactly those things they need. Andrea --Wolf -- :3 ) Wolf Bergenheim ( 8: ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
I agree with some of the other responses that challenge the way of traditional thinking. Desktop GIS, Web and Databases are the tools of today - it's interesting to watch the various ways they come together (collide?) in projects. If you look to replace desktop proprietary options, you may find that web-based tools start to fit the bill. Or to do analysis you may find the database tools open up more possibilities, etc.. Personally I find it a great challenge to keep up with various developments in the OS field. Even within OSGeo projects there is so much happening that it is hard to know which hurdles have been overcome or not. For example, projects like GRASS, QGIS, gvSIG all have goals to improve various components and their improvements are at various stages. Some, like gvSIG, have specific goals to fill the exact needs you have. QGIS + GRASS makes a powerful combination, though I can't speak to its usability. gvSIG + SEXTANTE makes similar strides in power. Then there are the service-based opportunities using WPS via PyWPS, deegree, 52 North, etc. I've got no hard answer because I feel the goal posts are constantly moving, and the others have touched on more specifics. Hope that general answers helps somewhat. Tyler On 24-Apr-08, at 12:41 PM, Jennifer Horsman wrote: The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
andrea antonello wrote: Among the things that QGIS (and other open source desktops) can't do are a table join, a spatial join I'm not sure what you mean with spatial join, but if you mean overlay, and raster combination GRASS can do, and it can also do table joins, while it overlays two vector layers. In response to the query can I replace ArcView with open source, my answer is in general, no, but maybe for a specific use case. I'd say: In general yes (In some respects GRASS is superior to Arc in analysis), but some things can be harder / more complicated or not possible. GRASS is a perfectly capable desktop GIS package with over 200 modules. I agree with Paul, power without control doesn't lead anywhere. GRASS is of huge power, but following my past commercial experiences, I Hehe, didn't you just say my past proprietary experiences? Sorry to be dense and all that... :-) PS: What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some strange reason all that I do starts with an http://... would say in general no, because most times they don't want the overhead of GRASS for exactly those things they need. Andrea --Wolf -- :3 ) Wolf Bergenheim ( 8: ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 08:21:21PM +0200, Arnulf Christl wrote: What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some strange reason all that I do starts with an http://... A Desktop GIS is what you switch to when you realize that the browser makes a really poor operating system, and moving outside of it and using the rest of your computer is important to accomplishing some tasks. The browser is great for a lot of things. There are also many things it is not great for. Knowing the difference is an important step to being successful in creating a solution that works well to meet the needs of the problem. Regards, -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
On Fri, April 25, 2008 20:51, Christopher Schmidt wrote: On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 08:21:21PM +0200, Arnulf Christl wrote: What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some strange reason all that I do starts with an http://... A Desktop GIS is what you switch to when you realize that the browser makes a really poor operating system, and moving outside of it and using the rest of your computer is important to accomplishing some tasks. This makes for a good redefinition of Desktop GIS. Pity my HD is too flimsy to carry all those PB of data. The browser is great for a lot of things. There are also many things it is not great for. Knowing the difference is an important step to being successful in creating a solution that works well to meet the needs of the problem. Think Programmable Web and Basement GIS. Regards, -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer Regards, -- Arnulf Christl Legacy GIS Architect ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
On 4/25/08, Arnulf Christl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: .. Legacy GIS Architect In the world of neogeography punks, this is a nice throwback to the future. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
I agree with Paul, power without control doesn't lead anywhere. GRASS is of huge power, but following my past commercial experiences, I Hehe, didn't you just say my past proprietary experiences? Sorry to be dense and all that... No worries, but I really meant: my past commercial experienses, i.e. proprietary and not, but for sure commercial. We are talking about bussiness, are we? Yes, I think we are :-) PS: What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some strange reason all that I do starts with an http://... We are an example of bussiness that earn money without a http://, just heavy environmental calculations. Don't know a thing about http. Even if 98% is about web, not everything is :-) Ciao Andrea would say in general no, because most times they don't want the overhead of GRASS for exactly those things they need. Andrea --Wolf -- :3 ) Wolf Bergenheim ( 8: ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Hi, this is the kind of question I face when in my lectures evangelising OS GIS. ArcGIS has many tools, though some prefer to call it a deluge of tools, which almost distance the user from understanding the concept of GIS. Auto Complete Polygon: In Qgis which is a very userfriendly OS GIS you have 'Cut polygon', do try and find the difference. Polygonising from lines: Open JUMP has one of the most userfriendly approaches. Create lines and polygonise in OpenJUMP and the software automatically creates a folder for Dangles (un-wanted line pieces) The query is more for Vector GIS, I suppose. GRASS GIS: It has so many features for Image analysis and Raster GIS, the commercial GIS need a barge pole to even touch it. The vector Part of GRASS is robust too. Ravi Kumar Markus Neteler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:55 PM, George R. C. Silva wrote: ... One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I do miss them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any O.S. software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping options, etc - btw, if you do, let me know). FOSS is great, but it lacks (IMHO) better editing options. We are working on that: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#Digitizer Screenshots: http://grass.osgeo.org/screenshots/gui.php - wxPython (new GUI) You can try out the prototype in GRASS 6.3.0 (released yesterday): http://grass.osgeo.org/announces/announce_grass630.html Get MacOSX, Linux and now even native MS-Windows binaries with *installer* at http://grass.osgeo.org/download/index.php#g63x Enjoy Markus ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Ravi, What us Open Source evangelists are missing is an honest comparison between ESRI desktop applications and Open Source equivalents. What is it about ArcView and ArcGIS that people really like, listed feature by feature in a table. Then identify whether Open Source covers it and how. Very important is to address usability. How quickly can an Arc* user migrate to Open Source? My skill set is lacking here as I don't have much experience in either ESRI or the Open Source desktop tools. It seems like you have experience with both which puts you in a unique position. Is this something you, or one of your students would like to investigate further? Maybe build a table similar to this one: http://www.spatialserver.net/osgis/Desktopgis_overview.htm RAVI KUMAR wrote: Hi, this is the kind of question I face when in my lectures evangelising OS GIS. ArcGIS has many tools, though some prefer to call it a deluge of tools, which almost distance the user from understanding the concept of GIS. Auto Complete Polygon: In Qgis which is a very userfriendly OS GIS you have 'Cut polygon', do try and find the difference. Polygonising from lines: Open JUMP has one of the most userfriendly approaches. Create lines and polygonise in OpenJUMP and the software automatically creates a folder for Dangles (un-wanted line pieces) The query is more for Vector GIS, I suppose. GRASS GIS: It has so many features for Image analysis and Raster GIS, the commercial GIS need a barge pole to even touch it. The vector Part of GRASS is robust too. Ravi Kumar */Markus Neteler [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:55 PM, George R. C. Silva wrote: ... One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I do miss them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any O.S. software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping options, etc - btw, if you do, let me know). FOSS is great, but it lacks (IMHO) better editing options. We are working on that: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#Digitizer Screenshots: http://grass.osgeo.org/screenshots/gui.php - wxPython (new GUI) You can try out the prototype in GRASS 6.3.0 (released yesterday): http://grass.osgeo.org/announces/announce_grass630.html Get MacOSX, Linux and now even native MS-Windows binaries with *installer* at http://grass.osgeo.org/download/index.php#g63x Enjoy Markus ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Cameron Shorter Geospatial Systems Architect Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050 Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254 Think Globally, Fix Locally Commercial Support for Geospatial Open Source Solutions http://www.lisasoft.com/LISAsoft/SupportedProducts.html ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
A convert! Welcome Jennifer. I can't speak for GRASS, but I know that OpenJUMP (http://jump-pilot.sourceforge.net/OpenJUMP.html) could be compared to the old 3.X Arcview. It has limited printing abilities at this point in time, but I don't think there is a better cross-platform tool for basic ESRI Shapefile manipulation. (I'm a volunteer on the project and therefore biased in my opinion on this matter.) I think you will find you can do 95% of what you could with ESRI software, you'll just have to do it with an assortment of tools instead of a single tool. Landon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jennifer Horsman Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:41 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)? The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
I'd buck up for a copy of ArcView (much cheaper than ArcGIS), and use GRASS / PostGIS / etc tools for things like analysis. You can use ArcView to generate the paper and do some quick low-end analytics and the other tools for more involved stuff. My general synopsis: for server-side, for scriptability, for automation, for web-based, open source wins for most use cases, given a technically savvy user; for ad hoc, for cartographic production, for a user who is used to a point-n-click experience end to end, proprietary still wins. This equation hasn't changed much in the 10 years I've been running it. The goal posts have moved, open source is better at adhoc now than before, but still not at the level of ESRI, and ESRI is better at the server stuff now, but still not at the level of open source. P. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Jennifer Horsman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
I would agree with Paul. The biggest hole in the FOSS stack is in easy, high quality printed map production. This is the one task where the Arc tools beat anything I have seen in FOSS GIS hands down. David On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Paul Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd buck up for a copy of ArcView (much cheaper than ArcGIS), and use GRASS / PostGIS / etc tools for things like analysis. You can use ArcView to generate the paper and do some quick low-end analytics and the other tools for more involved stuff. My general synopsis: for server-side, for scriptability, for automation, for web-based, open source wins for most use cases, given a technically savvy user; for ad hoc, for cartographic production, for a user who is used to a point-n-click experience end to end, proprietary still wins. This equation hasn't changed much in the 10 years I've been running it. The goal posts have moved, open source is better at adhoc now than before, but still not at the level of ESRI, and ESRI is better at the server stuff now, but still not at the level of open source. P. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Jennifer Horsman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- David William Bitner ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Sorry for the previous blank post. Open source is a great boon to small business innovation, as others have pointed out. Anyone dependent on small business consulting/contracting will have plenty of uses for open source tools. I have also used Jump in place of ArcView for shp viewing (as well as FWTools, Tatuk, AutoCAD, uDig, Geoserver ...). Shp seems to have become largely a lowest common denominator interchange format with support available all over. Of course ArcGIS/ArcInfo is a much different beast. It would take a good bit of sophistication to beat it in breadth of spectrum with just a single tool. There seems to be some kind of open source tool for most of the Arc bandwidth so you can probably get by without an expensive license with a little extra work. randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Landon Blake Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:36 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)? A convert! Welcome Jennifer. I can't speak for GRASS, but I know that OpenJUMP (http://jump-pilot.sourceforge.net/OpenJUMP.html) could be compared to the old 3.X Arcview. It has limited printing abilities at this point in time, but I don't think there is a better cross-platform tool for basic ESRI Shapefile manipulation. (I'm a volunteer on the project and therefore biased in my opinion on this matter.) I think you will find you can do 95% of what you could with ESRI software, you'll just have to do it with an assortment of tools instead of a single tool. Landon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jennifer Horsman Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:41 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)? The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Im a real novice in the OS world, and i´m enjoying. I´m liking what i see! ESRI has good software, but the world of OS is just great and i love the flexibility i have. One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I do miss them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any O.S. software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping options, etc - btw, if you do, let me know). FOSS is great, but it lacks (IMHO) better editing options. 2cents George Silva David William Bitner escreveu: I would agree with Paul. The biggest hole in the FOSS stack is in easy, high quality printed map production. This is the one task where the Arc tools beat anything I have seen in FOSS GIS hands down. David On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Paul Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd buck up for a copy of ArcView (much cheaper than ArcGIS), and use GRASS / PostGIS / etc tools for things like analysis. You can use ArcView to generate the paper and do some quick low-end analytics and the other tools for more involved stuff. My general synopsis: for server-side, for scriptability, for automation, for web-based, open source wins for most use cases, given a technically savvy user; for ad hoc, for cartographic production, for a user who is used to a point-n-click experience end to end, proprietary still wins. This equation hasn't changed much in the 10 years I've been running it. The goal posts have moved, open source is better at adhoc now than before, but still not at the level of ESRI, and ESRI is better at the server stuff now, but still not at the level of open source. P. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Jennifer Horsman [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- David William Bitner ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
If you want nice cartographic output, ArcMap on a totally different level than ArcView. I think I paid about 1k a few years ago for my copy (no extensions) through some reseller, which I really don't think is outlandish at all for what you get. That said, I rarely do paper-based cartography anymore, and one thing to consider when starting out a new venture is those moving goalposts. For example, there's tons of demand (as far as I can tell) for putting stuff on the web. One spot I see lots of work for is somewhere just above what the average google map hobbyists can offer (eg the postgis/mapserver/openlayers wrapped in a decent web framework or CMS kind of a thing). Or do you prefer to focus on modeling? cartography? I think if you have an idea of the kinds of projects you want to work on, that might help you decide which of the many open source gis software stacks might be the best to start studying. Without knowing more, my .02 is you just can't go wrong spending a little time learning PostGIS, and if you do want to put stuff on the web, you may as well start by playing around with OpenLayers. Cheers, -Josh Paul Ramsey wrote: I'd buck up for a copy of ArcView (much cheaper than ArcGIS), and use GRASS / PostGIS / etc tools for things like analysis. You can use ArcView to generate the paper and do some quick low-end analytics and the other tools for more involved stuff. My general synopsis: for server-side, for scriptability, for automation, for web-based, open source wins for most use cases, given a technically savvy user; for ad hoc, for cartographic production, for a user who is used to a point-n-click experience end to end, proprietary still wins. This equation hasn't changed much in the 10 years I've been running it. The goal posts have moved, open source is better at adhoc now than before, but still not at the level of ESRI, and ESRI is better at the server stuff now, but still not at the level of open source. P. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Jennifer Horsman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
It might be good to add a geoserver layer into the stack between PostGIS and client. Then you can publish into Google Earth, Google Maps, Virtual Earth/LiveMaps, or your own homegrown html, SVG, WPF, Silverlight whatever ... as well as OpenLayers. Paper can be the clients choice if you add a pdf/fop option. randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Josh Livni Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:41 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)? If you want nice cartographic output, ArcMap on a totally different level than ArcView. I think I paid about 1k a few years ago for my copy (no extensions) through some reseller, which I really don't think is outlandish at all for what you get. That said, I rarely do paper-based cartography anymore, and one thing to consider when starting out a new venture is those moving goalposts. For example, there's tons of demand (as far as I can tell) for putting stuff on the web. One spot I see lots of work for is somewhere just above what the average google map hobbyists can offer (eg the postgis/mapserver/openlayers wrapped in a decent web framework or CMS kind of a thing). Or do you prefer to focus on modeling? cartography? I think if you have an idea of the kinds of projects you want to work on, that might help you decide which of the many open source gis software stacks might be the best to start studying. Without knowing more, my .02 is you just can't go wrong spending a little time learning PostGIS, and if you do want to put stuff on the web, you may as well start by playing around with OpenLayers. Cheers, -Josh Paul Ramsey wrote: I'd buck up for a copy of ArcView (much cheaper than ArcGIS), and use GRASS / PostGIS / etc tools for things like analysis. You can use ArcView to generate the paper and do some quick low-end analytics and the other tools for more involved stuff. My general synopsis: for server-side, for scriptability, for automation, for web-based, open source wins for most use cases, given a technically savvy user; for ad hoc, for cartographic production, for a user who is used to a point-n-click experience end to end, proprietary still wins. This equation hasn't changed much in the 10 years I've been running it. The goal posts have moved, open source is better at adhoc now than before, but still not at the level of ESRI, and ESRI is better at the server stuff now, but still not at the level of open source. P. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Jennifer Horsman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Joanne Cook provided good insights into replacing ArcGIS software with Open Source on the geowanking list recently. http://lists.burri.to/pipermail/geowanking/2008-April/005117.html (and copied below) I'd love to see all this expertise collated into an ESRI/Open Source comparison similar to the review of the Open Source clients at: http://www.spatialserver.net/osgis/ Such a comparison could the be used to drive Migration to Open Source plans and package development (as sponsors decide it is cheaper to add their key features to Open Source than to go for a full ESRI license). Has anyone started such comparisons yet that we could build upon? Would this be best developed as a wiki book? Joanne Cook wrote: Hi Cameron, We (Oxford Archaeology) are going through exactly that process at the moment, although we are replacing arcgis 9.2 rather than arcview. We are doing this primarily because changes in the licensing terms meant that we were no longer eligible for the educational discount, but it's part of a longer term move towards open source. We have spent some time investigating alternatives, and have a few contenders, and I'm sure we would be happy to advise, or provide a case study on this. Basically we are looking at gvsig and qgis as the main options- gvsig because it can use cad data, and qgis because we like the grass integration and it's slightly more user-friendly for english speakers (the translated version of gvsig still has some spanish bits in it). With slight changes to our work-flows, we are finding that these two packages will do almost everything we need a gis to do, with the exception of producing high-quality illustrations. To achieve this we are currently looking at export to svg or postscript for final editing in inkscape, but that's a work in progress. George R. C. Silva wrote: Im a real novice in the OS world, and i´m enjoying. I´m liking what i see! ESRI has good software, but the world of OS is just great and i love the flexibility i have. One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I do miss them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any O.S. software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping options, etc - btw, if you do, let me know). FOSS is great, but it lacks (IMHO) better editing options. 2cents George Silva David William Bitner escreveu: I would agree with Paul. The biggest hole in the FOSS stack is in easy, high quality printed map production. This is the one task where the Arc tools beat anything I have seen in FOSS GIS hands down. David On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Paul Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd buck up for a copy of ArcView (much cheaper than ArcGIS), and use GRASS / PostGIS / etc tools for things like analysis. You can use ArcView to generate the paper and do some quick low-end analytics and the other tools for more involved stuff. My general synopsis: for server-side, for scriptability, for automation, for web-based, open source wins for most use cases, given a technically savvy user; for ad hoc, for cartographic production, for a user who is used to a point-n-click experience end to end, proprietary still wins. This equation hasn't changed much in the 10 years I've been running it. The goal posts have moved, open source is better at adhoc now than before, but still not at the level of ESRI, and ESRI is better at the server stuff now, but still not at the level of open source. P. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Jennifer Horsman [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
I've been an ESRI user (AV 3.x, ArcGIS 8/9, ArcIMS, ArcGIS Server, ArcSDE) for 12+ years and have recently started exploring FOSS software. And I haven't disagreed with any of the responses so far. You will definitely need multiple programs to do what a single ESRI program can do. IMO, this is a good thing. One of the main reasons for my migration is I'm tired of running large, complicated, expensive software and all the extra baggage that comes with it to use only 10% of what the software can do. (see ArcGIS Server.) You can do all the analysis and more of ArcGIS Desktop and extensions using GRASS, QGIS, SAGA, GeoTools, GDAL/OGR, PROJ4, or R Statistics along with a programming language like Python, Java or others. (IMO, this is a better solution than ESRI.)You can do just about anything you want on the web server end with MapServer, GeoServer, FeatureServer (and maybe TileCache or GeoNetwork for metadata) with any of a dozen or more clients (OpenLayers, ka-Map, MapGuide etc...). And you can do a lot of database work with Postgres/PostGIS, a much simpler, less costly solution than ArcSDE+RDBMS. And I wouldn't count out the role of free, non-open source packages like Google products and Oracle Express (11g should have Spatial included.) From my experience (limited in the FOSS world), I have found three basic hurdles: 1) Cartography. Whether on the screen, PDF outputs, or print publications, ArcMap is easy and looks great. (Although R Statistics produces better looking charts and graphs than ArcGIS.) 2) Versioned editing. This is important for groups with multiple concurrent editors or that has a particular hierarchical workflow with their GIS data. 3) Storage and serving of very large (50+ GB) raster datasets. PostGIS does not support rasters yet; Oracle Spatial does though. I'm still not sure if storing rasters in a database is a good idea but ArcSDE sure makes it easy, and with good performance when used in conjunction with other ESRI products. In the end, we have decided to move all of our web work to open source. For spatial analysis, we'll also move to open source. For Desktop, we'll have a mix of ArcGIS Desktop as well as QGIS, GRASS and maybe SAGA and/or OSSIM. For storage, we'll be maybe 505/50 with PostGIS+file-based rasters and ArcSDE/Oracle.Hope this helps. This sure is a fun and exciting time! - John Jennifer Horsman wrote: The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
3) Storage and serving of very large (50+ GB) raster datasets. PostGIS does not support rasters yet; Oracle Spatial does though. I'm still not sure if storing rasters in a database is a good idea but ArcSDE sure makes it easy, and with good performance when used in conjunction with other ESRI products. John, What is it about ArcSDE and raster that makes it easy? I have no experience with it, but there must be something about the process that seems easier to you than other options do. Is it just the clarity of the process? (you do a, b, c, and d, and then voila, it's all a seamless mosaic?) Or is there something else? P ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
A few things... - As you alluded to, it's very easy to create a seamless mosaic, or a raster catalog. And pyramids (overviews) and statistics are created automatically, if you like. The same loading process works if you have a one IMG file at 2 GB, or 100 JPEGs at 100 MB each, or 2000 TIFs at 200 MB each. (size limitations based upon your backend database.) - The loading process is simply using ArcCatalog and easy built in tools. Or using a command line function (sderaster -o mosaic) wrapped in a script. Or, any ArcObjects code you write (if you can figure that out!)For one file, you simply right-click and say Load into ArcSDE. - It's also nice to use the same storage mechanism for both vectors and rasters, for shared daily GIS use within my group, and for production web apps. And performance is very good in an all-ESRI solution (I haven't tried with non-ESRI clients) Problems come in because ArcGIS Desktop crashes quite often when dealing with large datasets. It's slow and unreliable. Did you ever try to load a bunch of rasters just to have it crash 3 days later? The statements I mentioned above work very well for small datasets and touch-and-go with larger data. The ArcSDE and RDBMS work great, it's the clients that break down and are slow. I also don't want to deal with the headaches of managing Oracle (it's a beast!) and, obviously, I don't want to deal with the extremely high costs of an Oracle/ESRI solution. I also want to share applications, share code, run the same products at home or at work, and run on multiple platforms. FOSS geo software fall more in line with my philosophical beliefs. I work at a university and it costs me very little for Oracle and ESRI products (for university related projects), and I still want to implement open source! - John Paul Ramsey wrote: 3) Storage and serving of very large (50+ GB) raster datasets. PostGIS does not support rasters yet; Oracle Spatial does though. I'm still not sure if storing rasters in a database is a good idea but ArcSDE sure makes it easy, and with good performance when used in conjunction with other ESRI products. John, What is it about ArcSDE and raster that makes it easy? I have no experience with it, but there must be something about the process that seems easier to you than other options do. Is it just the clarity of the process? (you do a, b, c, and d, and then voila, it's all a seamless mosaic?) Or is there something else? P ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
