Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
- Daniel P. Ames [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi folks. As you all know, there is a growing interest in open source for Windows. Especially with Microsoft's release of its developer tools in free express editions and the availability of such tools as SharpDevelop and Mono. MapWindow is .NET based and the bulk of our developers and users are strictly MS based. I don't think this makes them any less human, it just says that their threshold for open source is set such that a $90 Windows operating system is considered acceptable but a $1 GIS is not. But to split hairs, if MapWindow is .NET based it is not entirely open source as it is dependent on a closed source platform. Now if it also works on Mono (as in developed with that in mind), that's no longer true. Does it? I would also suggest that developing an open source project inside an environment controlled by one of the companies most damaged if the open source development model becomes the norm is inviting failure. OTOH I would be a supporter of having Windows available on the LiveDVD in VirtualBox, partly for reasons you suggest below and partly so Linux avoiders can realise you can also gain from avoiding that $90 tax on your PC. The use of Windows in VirtualBox should be legitimate if the host machines have licences. Legitimate as in defendable at least; not sure how pragmatic Australian courts are on software licencing and some of the more ridiculous terms companies include in them... NB would require two versions of the DVD as it could not be distributed including the Windows VM. And come to think of it, given Window's special size requirements as an OS, it would probably require a Bluray disc instead of a DVD ;) Chris We had a great turnout at the MapWindow lab and worshop in South Africa and got lots of hey it's great to see .NET open source GIS here comments. So, call us mudbloods, but it's an approach that we see has a huge added value for lots of folks. Bottom line, if having Windows on some lab computers doesn't add a huge expense, then we'd hope that Windows based labs and/or workshops would be encouraged. Indeed, consider the opportunities for demonstrating QGIS and GRASS and others on Windows to help convert Linux avoiders over to OSGeo. - Dan -Original Message- From: Dave Patton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:02 PM To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?vel On 2008/10/19 1:30 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote: I'm wondering whether it will be achievable and desirable to use a GeoFOSS LiveDVD as the only installed operating system at workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009. So my questions to communities are: Do you and your project think you would commit to packaging your project into a debian based LiveDVD before FOSS4G in October 2009? For presenters, would you want to add tutorial material to the LiveDVD, which would mean using an Open licence like Creative Commons? I would start by asking a different question - does anyone foresee any issue with not having MS Windows available as an option for Workshops/Labs for FOSS4G 2009? We might not want to restrict the discussion to OSGeo projects. What if a Sponsor, or Exhibitor, or 'some software company', or 'some non-OSGeo project' submitted a proposal to deliver a Workshop/Lab, and it merited consideration for inclusion in the conference, but it required MS Windows? Were there Workshops/Labs at FOSS4G 2008 that could not have been delivered without having MS Windows? If we assume that there was 'some need' for MS Windows for FOSS4G 2009, but that it wasn't needed for all the PCs, how would people react to Workshops/Labs that required MS Windows also requiring a higher registration fee? (i.e. higher by the incremental cost of the license to use MS Windows on the PC for the Workshop/Lab) P.S. It helps if everyone uses the term Instructors when referring to Workshops/Labs, because Presenter makes people think of Presentations, and sometimes that causes confusion. -- Dave Patton CIS Canadian Information Systems Victoria, B.C. Degree Confluence Project: Canadian Coordinator Technical Coordinator http://www.confluence.org/ OSGeo FOSS4G2007 conference: Workshop Committee Chair Conference Committee member http://www.foss4g2007.org/ Personal website: Maps, GPS, etc. http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Files attached to this email may be in ISO 26300 format (OASIS Open Document Format). If you have difficulty opening them, please visit
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
For South Africa, we just needed Windows XP or Vista and Visual Basic .NET Express Edition (though C# or SharpDevelop would also work). Of course these have to be installed before hand - can't be run from a live CD (I'll look into what can be done from a Live CD with Windows and post back here.) In any case, I hate to be the Sarah Palin supporter at an Obama rally (or for that matter, an open source GIS guy at a Spanish ESRI conference!), but Windows is a bit of a pragmatic choice for us and for our target users. So thanks to those of you who haven't told us to hold our meetings outside the conference at the cafe or something :) Maybe time to move this thread to the Conference mailing list? - Dan On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Cameron Shorter [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Thanks Daniel, It is good to know that there are projects which depend upon Windows. For MapWindws, (and any other windows based workshops), what should we install on our lab computers? Can we cover everything using OSGeo4W? Or should we use something different? Maybe we should set up the lab computers to dual boot with Windows + OSGeo4W / LiveDVD. Daniel P. Ames wrote: Hi folks. As you all know, there is a growing interest in open source for Windows. Especially with Microsoft's release of its developer tools in free express editions and the availability of such tools as SharpDevelop and Mono. MapWindow is .NET based and the bulk of our developers and users are strictly MS based. I don't think this makes them any less human, it just says that their threshold for open source is set such that a $90 Windows operating system is considered acceptable but a $1 GIS is not. We had a great turnout at the MapWindow lab and worshop in South Africa and got lots of hey it's great to see .NET open source GIS here comments. So, call us mudbloods, but it's an approach that we see has a huge added value for lots of folks. Bottom line, if having Windows on some lab computers doesn't add a huge expense, then we'd hope that Windows based labs and/or workshops would be encouraged. Indeed, consider the opportunities for demonstrating QGIS and GRASS and others on Windows to help convert Linux avoiders over to OSGeo. - Dan -Original Message- From: Dave Patton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:02 PM To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009? On 2008/10/19 1:30 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote: I'm wondering whether it will be achievable and desirable to use a GeoFOSS LiveDVD as the only installed operating system at workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009. So my questions to communities are: Do you and your project think you would commit to packaging your project into a debian based LiveDVD before FOSS4G in October 2009? For presenters, would you want to add tutorial material to the LiveDVD, which would mean using an Open licence like Creative Commons? I would start by asking a different question - does anyone foresee any issue with not having MS Windows available as an option for Workshops/Labs for FOSS4G 2009? We might not want to restrict the discussion to OSGeo projects. What if a Sponsor, or Exhibitor, or 'some software company', or 'some non-OSGeo project' submitted a proposal to deliver a Workshop/Lab, and it merited consideration for inclusion in the conference, but it required MS Windows? Were there Workshops/Labs at FOSS4G 2008 that could not have been delivered without having MS Windows? If we assume that there was 'some need' for MS Windows for FOSS4G 2009, but that it wasn't needed for all the PCs, how would people react to Workshops/Labs that required MS Windows also requiring a higher registration fee? (i.e. higher by the incremental cost of the license to use MS Windows on the PC for the Workshop/Lab) P.S. It helps if everyone uses the term Instructors when referring to Workshops/Labs, because Presenter makes people think of Presentations, and sometimes that causes confusion. -- Cameron Shorter Geospatial Systems Architect Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050 Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254 Think Globally, Fix Locally Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source http://www.lisasoft.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Daniel P. Ames PhD, PE Department of Geosciences Idaho State University - Idaho Falls [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.MapWindow.org www.Hydromap.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
At FOSS4G2008 We ran Windows XP as a base install. This worked quite well for the South African environment and for the particular conference, which included a lot of folk who were less exposed to Linux. I feel that this choice was determined by our audience in the end. Some FOSS4G attendees were annoyed by the use of Win XP in this way, but it was a pragmatic approach that worked, and also allowed certain FOSS4G projects that are Windows based to gain exposure (like MapWindow, which almost certainly increased its user base as a result of a strong conference presence). We needed to introduce many people to FOSS4G, not necessarily the whole FOSS universe out there. Perhaps the audience will be different in Sydney, but the choice does need to be carefully weighed up. We chose to offer a bridge into FOSS4G for the most people in a relatively immature FOSS environment. MS4W, OSGeo4W, PostGIS, Java, Tomcat, Firefox, Google Earth covered a lot of bases and were all easy to install and work with on Win XP. Regards Graeme McFerren On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 01:50 -0600, Daniel P. Ames wrote: For South Africa, we just needed Windows XP or Vista and Visual Basic .NET Express Edition (though C# or SharpDevelop would also work). Of course these have to be installed before hand - can't be run from a live CD (I'll look into what can be done from a Live CD with Windows and post back here.) In any case, I hate to be the Sarah Palin supporter at an Obama rally (or for that matter, an open source GIS guy at a Spanish ESRI conference!), but Windows is a bit of a pragmatic choice for us and for our target users. So thanks to those of you who haven't told us to hold our meetings outside the conference at the cafe or something :) Maybe time to move this thread to the Conference mailing list? - Dan On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Cameron Shorter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Daniel, It is good to know that there are projects which depend upon Windows. For MapWindws, (and any other windows based workshops), what should we install on our lab computers? Can we cover everything using OSGeo4W? Or should we use something different? Maybe we should set up the lab computers to dual boot with Windows + OSGeo4W / LiveDVD. Daniel P. Ames wrote: Hi folks. As you all know, there is a growing interest in open source for Windows. Especially with Microsoft's release of its developer tools in free express editions and the availability of such tools as SharpDevelop and Mono. MapWindow is .NET based and the bulk of our developers and users are strictly MS based. I don't think this makes them any less human, it just says that their threshold for open source is set such that a $90 Windows operating system is considered acceptable but a $1 GIS is not. We had a great turnout at the MapWindow lab and worshop in South Africa and got lots of hey it's great to see .NET open source GIS here comments. So, call us mudbloods, but it's an approach that we see has a huge added value for lots of folks. Bottom line, if having Windows on some lab computers doesn't add a huge expense, then we'd hope that Windows based labs and/or workshops would be encouraged. Indeed, consider the opportunities for demonstrating QGIS and GRASS and others on Windows to help convert Linux avoiders over to OSGeo. - Dan -Original Message- From: Dave Patton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:02 PM To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009? On 2008/10/19 1:30 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote: I'm wondering whether it will be achievable and desirable to use a GeoFOSS LiveDVD as the only installed operating system at workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009. So my questions to communities are: Do you and your project think you would commit to packaging your project into a debian based LiveDVD before FOSS4G in October 2009?
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
- Christopher Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 07:25:01AM +0100, Chris Puttick wrote: - Daniel P. Ames [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi folks. As you all know, there is a growing interest in open source for Windows. Especially with Microsoft's release of its developer tools in free express editions and the availability of such tools as SharpDevelop and Mono. MapWindow is .NET based and the bulk of our developers and users are strictly MS based. I don't think this makes them any less human, it just says that their threshold for open source is set such that a $90 Windows operating system is considered acceptable but a $1 GIS is not. But to split hairs, if MapWindow is .NET based it is not entirely open source as it is dependent on a closed source platform. That's like saying OpenLayers is not open source when used with Google Maps -- OpenLayers (and correspondingly, MapWindow) is (or can be) still Open Source, regardless of the libraries it depends on. Let's not play the My software is more open than your software game; Stallman is good enough at that. No, it isn't the same at all. Building an open source application on a bunch of proprietary libraries makes the resulting application very closed to anyone without access to those closed libraries and potentially removes the one of the key advantages of open source, i.e. the ability to fix a bug you uncover. OTOH using OpenLayers with Google Maps is just about choice of data sources. OpenLayers is not restricted to using Google Maps, that is just how you implement it. And MapWindow is far more open than my software as I don't have any :) Regards, -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Files attached to this email may be in ISO 26300 format (OASIS Open Document Format). If you have difficulty opening them, please visit http://iso26300.info for more information. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 07:25:01AM +0100, Chris Puttick wrote: - Daniel P. Ames [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi folks. As you all know, there is a growing interest in open source for Windows. Especially with Microsoft's release of its developer tools in free express editions and the availability of such tools as SharpDevelop and Mono. MapWindow is .NET based and the bulk of our developers and users are strictly MS based. I don't think this makes them any less human, it just says that their threshold for open source is set such that a $90 Windows operating system is considered acceptable but a $1 GIS is not. But to split hairs, if MapWindow is .NET based it is not entirely open source as it is dependent on a closed source platform. That's like saying OpenLayers is not open source when used with Google Maps -- OpenLayers (and correspondingly, MapWindow) is (or can be) still Open Source, regardless of the libraries it depends on. Let's not play the My software is more open than your software game; Stallman is good enough at that. Regards, -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
projects that are Windows based to gain exposure (like MapWindow, which almost certainly increased its user base as a result of a strong conference presence). Very true. We actually got a conference spike in downloads and also in the number of *.za people on our mailing lists. I'm a believer in conferences. Thanks for all your work on the last one, Graeme - Dan ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
Chris Puttick wrote: - Daniel P. Ames [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi folks. As you all know, there is a growing interest in open source for Windows. Especially with Microsoft's release of its developer tools in free express editions and the availability of such tools as SharpDevelop and Mono. MapWindow is .NET based and the bulk of our developers and users are strictly MS based. I don't think this makes them any less human, it just says that their threshold for open source is set such that a $90 Windows operating system is considered acceptable but a $1 GIS is not. But to split hairs, if MapWindow is .NET based it is not entirely open source as it is dependent on a closed source platform. Now if it also works on Mono (as in developed with that in mind), that's no longer true. Does it? I would also suggest that developing an open source project inside an environment controlled by one of the companies most damaged if the open source development model becomes the norm is inviting failure. Chris, A point I often try to make is that OSGeo promotes open source geospatial software but does not take upon itself the promotion of a full open source stack. That is to say, it isn't core to our mission to migrate people from windows to linux, nor is it core to our mission to move people from .net to freer base components. So I think it is important we do not both splitting hairs - at least as far as official OSGeo policy. In the context of workshops and such this would manifest as being supportive of mixed environments of proprietary and open source software. I would call it pragmatic vs. ideological though that is a rather loaded way of expressing it. I have always taken a big tent approach to open source, trying to welcome individuals and organizations in at the level of adoption that is comfortable for them. I hope OSGeo can continue to do the same. Best regards, -- ---+-- I set the clouds in motion - turn up | Frank Warmerdam, [EMAIL PROTECTED] light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam and watch the world go round - Rush| Geospatial Programmer for Rent ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
Sounds like we need windows to support MapWindow, any others? I'm expecting at least half the 2009 conference attendees will come from agencies where the only desktop operating system is windows based, so it will be beneficial to show GeoFOSS working in their environment. I expect that we will have at least one computer room set up with the following. graeme mcferren wrote: snip MS4W, OSGeo4W, PostGIS, Java, Tomcat, Firefox, Google Earth covered a lot of bases and were all easy to install and work with on Win XP. For potential instructors, would you prefer to demonstrate from a Linux based liveDVD or windows? What do you need on the LiveDVD? Do you see your project being able to commit resources to package itself onto the LiveDVD? How do you feel about putting your tutorials on the LiveDVD under an Open License? (I'm expecting a mixed reaction to this so I'm hoping to get any issues out early) -- Cameron Shorter Geospatial Systems Architect Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050 Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254 Think Globally, Fix Locally Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source http://www.lisasoft.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
On 2008/10/19 1:30 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote: I'm wondering whether it will be achievable and desirable to use a GeoFOSS LiveDVD as the only installed operating system at workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009. So my questions to communities are: Do you and your project think you would commit to packaging your project into a debian based LiveDVD before FOSS4G in October 2009? For presenters, would you want to add tutorial material to the LiveDVD, which would mean using an Open licence like Creative Commons? I would start by asking a different question - does anyone foresee any issue with not having MS Windows available as an option for Workshops/Labs for FOSS4G 2009? We might not want to restrict the discussion to OSGeo projects. What if a Sponsor, or Exhibitor, or 'some software company', or 'some non-OSGeo project' submitted a proposal to deliver a Workshop/Lab, and it merited consideration for inclusion in the conference, but it required MS Windows? Were there Workshops/Labs at FOSS4G 2008 that could not have been delivered without having MS Windows? If we assume that there was 'some need' for MS Windows for FOSS4G 2009, but that it wasn't needed for all the PCs, how would people react to Workshops/Labs that required MS Windows also requiring a higher registration fee? (i.e. higher by the incremental cost of the license to use MS Windows on the PC for the Workshop/Lab) P.S. It helps if everyone uses the term Instructors when referring to Workshops/Labs, because Presenter makes people think of Presentations, and sometimes that causes confusion. -- Dave Patton CIS Canadian Information Systems Victoria, B.C. Degree Confluence Project: Canadian Coordinator Technical Coordinator http://www.confluence.org/ OSGeo FOSS4G2007 conference: Workshop Committee Chair Conference Committee member http://www.foss4g2007.org/ Personal website: Maps, GPS, etc. http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
Hi folks. As you all know, there is a growing interest in open source for Windows. Especially with Microsoft's release of its developer tools in free express editions and the availability of such tools as SharpDevelop and Mono. MapWindow is .NET based and the bulk of our developers and users are strictly MS based. I don't think this makes them any less human, it just says that their threshold for open source is set such that a $90 Windows operating system is considered acceptable but a $1 GIS is not. We had a great turnout at the MapWindow lab and worshop in South Africa and got lots of hey it's great to see .NET open source GIS here comments. So, call us mudbloods, but it's an approach that we see has a huge added value for lots of folks. Bottom line, if having Windows on some lab computers doesn't add a huge expense, then we'd hope that Windows based labs and/or workshops would be encouraged. Indeed, consider the opportunities for demonstrating QGIS and GRASS and others on Windows to help convert Linux avoiders over to OSGeo. - Dan -Original Message- From: Dave Patton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:02 PM To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009? On 2008/10/19 1:30 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote: I'm wondering whether it will be achievable and desirable to use a GeoFOSS LiveDVD as the only installed operating system at workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009. So my questions to communities are: Do you and your project think you would commit to packaging your project into a debian based LiveDVD before FOSS4G in October 2009? For presenters, would you want to add tutorial material to the LiveDVD, which would mean using an Open licence like Creative Commons? I would start by asking a different question - does anyone foresee any issue with not having MS Windows available as an option for Workshops/Labs for FOSS4G 2009? We might not want to restrict the discussion to OSGeo projects. What if a Sponsor, or Exhibitor, or 'some software company', or 'some non-OSGeo project' submitted a proposal to deliver a Workshop/Lab, and it merited consideration for inclusion in the conference, but it required MS Windows? Were there Workshops/Labs at FOSS4G 2008 that could not have been delivered without having MS Windows? If we assume that there was 'some need' for MS Windows for FOSS4G 2009, but that it wasn't needed for all the PCs, how would people react to Workshops/Labs that required MS Windows also requiring a higher registration fee? (i.e. higher by the incremental cost of the license to use MS Windows on the PC for the Workshop/Lab) P.S. It helps if everyone uses the term Instructors when referring to Workshops/Labs, because Presenter makes people think of Presentations, and sometimes that causes confusion. -- Dave Patton CIS Canadian Information Systems Victoria, B.C. Degree Confluence Project: Canadian Coordinator Technical Coordinator http://www.confluence.org/ OSGeo FOSS4G2007 conference: Workshop Committee Chair Conference Committee member http://www.foss4g2007.org/ Personal website: Maps, GPS, etc. http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
On 10/19/08, Daniel P. Ames [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi folks. As you all know, there is a growing interest in open source for Windows. Especially with Microsoft's release of its developer tools in free express editions and the availability of such tools as SharpDevelop and Mono. MapWindow is .NET based and the bulk of our developers and users are strictly MS based. I don't think this makes them any less human, it just says that their threshold for open source is set such that a $90 Windows operating system is considered acceptable but a $1 GIS is not. We had a great turnout at the MapWindow lab and worshop in South Africa and got lots of hey it's great to see .NET open source GIS here comments. So, call us mudbloods, but it's an approach that we see has a huge added value for lots of folks. Bottom line, if having Windows on some lab computers doesn't add a huge expense, then we'd hope that Windows based labs and/or workshops would be encouraged. Indeed, consider the opportunities for demonstrating QGIS and GRASS and others on Windows to help convert Linux avoiders over to OSGeo. I have no skin in this game, but I would second the above sentiment. While not free as in beer should not be as much of a problem as not free as in speech, ignoring Windows is perilous and foolish. Because of its lack of architecture diversity and its monolithic nature, actually Windows can be a pretty good open source development platform because one can actually get past dicking around with installing the damn software and get to developing with it. - Dan -Original Message- From: Dave Patton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 3:02 PM To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009? On 2008/10/19 1:30 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote: I'm wondering whether it will be achievable and desirable to use a GeoFOSS LiveDVD as the only installed operating system at workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009. So my questions to communities are: Do you and your project think you would commit to packaging your project into a debian based LiveDVD before FOSS4G in October 2009? For presenters, would you want to add tutorial material to the LiveDVD, which would mean using an Open licence like Creative Commons? I would start by asking a different question - does anyone foresee any issue with not having MS Windows available as an option for Workshops/Labs for FOSS4G 2009? We might not want to restrict the discussion to OSGeo projects. What if a Sponsor, or Exhibitor, or 'some software company', or 'some non-OSGeo project' submitted a proposal to deliver a Workshop/Lab, and it merited consideration for inclusion in the conference, but it required MS Windows? Were there Workshops/Labs at FOSS4G 2008 that could not have been delivered without having MS Windows? If we assume that there was 'some need' for MS Windows for FOSS4G 2009, but that it wasn't needed for all the PCs, how would people react to Workshops/Labs that required MS Windows also requiring a higher registration fee? (i.e. higher by the incremental cost of the license to use MS Windows on the PC for the Workshop/Lab) P.S. It helps if everyone uses the term Instructors when referring to Workshops/Labs, because Presenter makes people think of Presentations, and sometimes that causes confusion. -- Dave Patton CIS Canadian Information Systems Victoria, B.C. Degree Confluence Project: Canadian Coordinator Technical Coordinator http://www.confluence.org/ OSGeo FOSS4G2007 conference: Workshop Committee Chair Conference Committee member http://www.foss4g2007.org/ Personal website: Maps, GPS, etc. http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/ ___ -- Puneet Kishor ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
On 19-Oct-08, at 5:30 PM, P Kishor wrote: I have no skin in this game, but I would second the above sentiment. While not free as in beer should not be as much of a problem as not free as in speech, ignoring Windows is perilous and foolish. Because of its lack of architecture diversity and its monolithic nature, actually Windows can be a pretty good open source development platform because one can actually get past dicking around with installing the damn software and get to developing with it. This thread is discussin LiveDVD, right, which is not readily possible with Windows unless running some sort of VM. But of course, the solution is to have installers and packaged demos ready to go. That's the goal of projects like OSGeo4W: http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo4w/ Hopefully those with more Windows experience can help on that front. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) wrote: On 19-Oct-08, at 5:30 PM, P Kishor wrote: I have no skin in this game, but I would second the above sentiment. While not free as in beer should not be as much of a problem as not free as in speech, ignoring Windows is perilous and foolish. Because of its lack of architecture diversity and its monolithic nature, actually Windows can be a pretty good open source development platform because one can actually get past dicking around with installing the damn software and get to developing with it. This thread is discussin LiveDVD, right, which is not readily possible with Windows unless running some sort of VM. But of course, the solution is to have installers and packaged demos ready to go. That's the goal of projects like OSGeo4W: http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo4w/ Hopefully those with more Windows experience can help on that front. An additional option which would be closer to a LiveDVD option would be PortableGIS via a usb.http://www.archaeogeek.com/blog/portable-gis/ And yes I agree that we should distribute OSGeo4W and MS4W on top of live options as giveaways at booths etc. As for the statement earlier made ...with installing the damn software and get to developing with it. I think it would be more appropriate to change developing to using. It is much slower from my experience trying to develop on a windows system, and if you're talking Open Source, you really should be(wish list) talking cross platform or open platform. I'll also toss in that the free versions of Visual Studio leave out certain things that make it impossible to compile certain apps or to compile them without Visual Studio. Don't get me wrong, I think Open Source is open source in all it forms and I appreciate it all it's forms. But even if you only use windows or linux or mac acknowledging the others and working across is a good thing. Alex ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can we use a LiveDVD for workshops and labs at FOSS4G 2009?
Oops, I see the question is more about whether to include Windows in the workshops or not. Either way, hopefully there will also be lots of Windows machines showing demos at booths and other forums. Don't get me wrong, I think Open Source is open source in all it forms and I appreciate it all it's forms. But even if you only use windows or linux or mac acknowledging the others and working across is a good thing. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
