Re: [slim] Long delay starting FLAC playback
Thanks for explaining that to me. I guess it makes sense that the decoder would be in the Touch, not in LMS. Terry TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=108209 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Long delay starting FLAC playback
TerryS wrote: > Interesting I know the version of LMS that I am running is > hopelessly outdated, but I've resisted updating it since it has always > done everything I needed it to do. I just play FLAC files from my NAS, > I don't do any streaming or any of the stuff the later versions added. > So I hadn't planned on updating it until I decide to upgrade my NAS to > another NAS or whatever Version of LMS is irrelevant. The Flac decoder is either onboard Player firmware (and no update going to happen) or when transcoding/resampling the 3rd party Reference Flac executable is used. The problem is that there are few Flac encoders which are not "reference" and seem not to be 100% compliant especially at boundaries such as high compression. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=108209 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Long delay starting FLAC playback
Interesting I know the version of LMS that I am running is hopelessly outdated, but I've resisted updating it since it has always done everything I needed it to do. I just play FLAC files from my NAS, I don't do any streaming or any of the stuff the later versions added. So I hadn't planned on updating it until I decide to upgrade my NAS to another NAS or whatever. Terry TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=108209 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Long delay starting FLAC playback
Did a Google on the encoder Lavf57.34.103 with terms HD and Flac and there are quite a few reports of unplayable files such as > > UPDATE 17October2016: Seems that the SuperMini does not support the > Encoder "FLAC Lavf57.34.103". I had purchased the FLAC 24bit/96KHz > album, SCATTERED ASHES, from HDtracks that used this encoder - and the > PMP would not play it. After a bit of fiddling about, I finally used > dBpoweramp's converter to simply reconverted right back to FLAC > 24/96KHz, and thus into dBpoweramp's standard encoder, "FLAC reference > libFLAC 1.3.1 20141125". And album plays a charm now. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=108209 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Long delay starting FLAC playback
Here is what MediaInfo says about the file that loads slowly: General Complete name: C:\Users\Terry\Music\HDtracks\Julien Baker\Turn Out the Lights\01-Over.flac Format : FLAC Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec File size: 48.8 MiB Duration : 1 min 28 s Overall bit rate mode: Variable Overall bit rate : 4 633 kb/s Album: Turn Out the Lights Album/Performer : Julien Baker Part : 1 Part/Total : 1 Track name : Over Track name/Position : 01 Track name/Total : 11 Performer: Julien Baker Producer : Matador Genre: Alternative Description : OLE11297 Recorded date: 2017 Writing application : Lavf57.34.103 ISRC : USMTD1710061 Copyright: 2017 Matador Records Limited Cover: Yes Cover type : Cover (front) Cover MIME : image/jpeg UPC : 744861112976 Audio Format : FLAC Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec Duration : 1 min 28 s Bit rate mode: Variable Bit rate : 3 933 kb/s Channel(s) : 2 channels Channel positions: Front: L R Sampling rate: 96.0 kHz Bit depth: 24 bits Stream size : 41.4 MiB (85%) Writing library : Lavf57.34.103 And here is the file that plays like it should: General Complete name: C:\Users\Terry\Music\Music\Hi-Res\Julien Baker\Turn Out the Lights\01-Over.flac Format : FLAC Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec File size: 27.4 MiB Duration : 1 min 28 s Overall bit rate mode: Variable Overall bit rate : 2 602 kb/s Album: Turn Out the Lights Album/Performer : Julien Baker Track name : Over Track name/Position : 01 Performer: Julien Baker Genre: Alternative Description : OLE11297 Recorded date: 2017 ISRC : USMTD1710061 Copyright: 2017 Matador Records Limited Cover: Yes Cover type : Cover (front) Cover MIME : image/jpeg Audio Format : FLAC Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec Duration : 1 min 28 s Bit rate mode: Variable Bit rate : 2 593 kb/s Channel(s) : 2 channels Channel positions: Front: L R Sampling rate: 96.0 kHz Bit depth: 24 bits Stream size : 27.3 MiB (100%) Writing library : libFLAC 1.3.2 (UTC 2017-01-01) About all I can conclude is that the one that loads slowly has a file size of 48.8M and a stream size of 41.4M = 7.4M of something extra. The one that plays correctly has a file size of 27.4M and a stream size of 27.3M = 0.1M of something extra. So the problematic file has a lot more of something besides music. Terry TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=108209 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Long delay starting FLAC playback
TerryS wrote: > I don't know if there is any way to examine the FLAC file contents and > see how much is music and how much is tags and art. There are many analysis tools - something like mediainfo might be a good starting point. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=108209 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Long delay starting FLAC playback
Thanks for the tip on browsing to the NAS files. I will definitely give WINSCP a try. On the long start delay, The original FLAC files from HD Tracks had a 4000 x 4000 pixel cover art embedded in each track. My first thought is that was so large it was delaying the start of the music while it streamed the album cover. So the first thing I tried was shrinking the cover art to 400 x 400 pixels and using MP3Tag to replace the cover art. That didn't seems to make any difference in the start up time, but now I'm wondering if somehow the FLAC file still had a large space reserved for the larger cover art file. Then re-saving the FLAC file with Goldwave reduced the file size by reducing the space for the cover art. I don't know if there is any way to examine the FLAC file contents and see how much is music and how much is tags and art. Thanks for everyone's help with this. I'm learning a lot. Terry TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=108209 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Long delay starting FLAC playback
TerryS wrote: > Well this is embarrassing to admit, but I don't know how to browse to a > file location on my NAS, so I can't delete the log file. I only know > how to use the web server interface for the NAS and LMS. If you are a Windows person the easiest option is WinSCP. - https://winscp.net/eng/download.php Download and install it, leave the defaults, set up a connection to your NAS using its IP address and select SCP protocol. Username is admin password is the usual web password for the NAS. Left is local, right is the NAS - just don't go deleting stuff if you don't understand whats what. 23918 +---+ |Filename: 2017-11-01 10_10_06-flac - admin@10.0.0.2 - WinSCP.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23918| +---+ *Pi3 with piCoreplayer music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets/Jogglers *Living Room* - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s *Office* - Pi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=108209 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Long delay starting FLAC playback
TerryS wrote: > I have a strong wi-fi connection and don't usually have any buffering > problems. And it seems too consistent to be caused by buffering due to > a poor wi-fi connection. It is always 30 seconds, even between songs on > an album. Yes and No - failures often have backup retry mechanism which have fixed timeouts. Also with large files - timing can become very consistent as caches etc are exhausted. So wifi issues couldn't be excluded - rememebr it is the player which tells LMS when the internal buffer has reached a threshold and so LMS can give the command to start playing. The is when LMS has decided how to play the files (i.e. direct by Touch) Code: [17-10-31 19:06:05.6479] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::getConvertCommand2 (428) Matched: flc->flc via: - This is when the player has told LMS that it has enough data to start playing - about 28 secs later. Code: [17-10-31 19:06:33.9986] Slim::Player::StreamingController::playerTrackStarted (2286) 00:04:20:22:31:6d It is possible to get more details of buffer filling/ fullness by enabling the slimproto logging > I agree that the size makes it look like it is not compressed at all. > Like maybe it is not a FLAC file even though the file extension says it > is. According to the log the file is being treated as a Flac file and sent to the player unprocessed. If there is 25Mb of filler in the header of the file which may be the cause of the delay - the whole file is sent to player serially and player has to get past the filler. Still taking 30 secs to skip past 25Mbytes seems to be a bit slow. If you are still curious - I'd investigate the 25Mbytes difference betrween the two files - is it compression, tags or a bit of both ? That said - there may be better uses of your time. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=108209 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Long delay starting FLAC playback
Well this is embarrassing to admit, but I don't know how to browse to a file location on my NAS, so I can't delete the log file. I only know how to use the web server interface for the NAS and LMS. But I did set the debug level on Player.source and restart the server. Then I captured the log file from the server page after playing track 1. I'm attaching what I captured. It shows that I restarted LMS at 17-10-31 19:05:45 I tried to play the song at 17-10-31 19:05:50.9378 It takes 32 seconds for the song to start playing according to the LMS screen. The log seems to show it starting at 17-10-31 19:06:33.9996 I'm running on a QNAP TS-251 NAS over Wi-Fi. I don't know if you can tell what is going on from the log. Re-saving the file as FLAC with Goldwave has solve the problem, so it is just out of curiosity that I'm asking. I have a strong wi-fi connection and don't usually have any buffering problems. And it seems too consistent to be caused by buffering due to a poor wi-fi connection. It is always 30 seconds, even between songs on an album. I agree that the size makes it look like it is not compressed at all. Like maybe it is not a FLAC file even though the file extension says it is. Terry +---+ |Filename: serverLogFile.zip| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23917| +---+ TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=108209 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Long delay starting FLAC playback
30secs is a very long time. With LMS default setting - LMS will send the Flac direct to Touch which will decode the file natively & start playing decode after about 2Mbytes have been sent. so either 1. Network connection is erratic and/oir not good. 2. There is some extra processing going on in the LMS server as a result of non default settings. 30secs delay would mean a lot of processing (e.g. resampling) on a low power system (e.g. NAS). 3. Something odd in the file format (e.g. multi track files with embedded cue sheet) Basically - you have give a lot more detailed info on your setup and the files. Any messages in the log file ? To get a little more detail on the problems. Stop LMS and delete log file, restart LMS, enable logging Player.source to DEBUG and then play the file. ZIP log file and attach the zipped log file to a post. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=108209 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Long delay starting FLAC playback
TerryS wrote: > > Looking at the info screen for track 1 on iPeng: > The original: > File Format: FLAC > Duration: 1:28 > Bitrate: 3932kbps VBR > Sample Rate:96.0 kHz > Sample Size: 24 bits > File Length 51,181,684 > A 96kHz 24bit stereo file of length 1:28 would be 50,688,000 *uncompressed*. So your original FLAC file would appear to have no compression at all. (Maybe the additional half MB is the artwork). I wonder if it's possible that although it has a FLAC file suffix, it's actually just a normal LPCM file? Could it be that the LMS playback system is somehow smart enough to figure this out after a FLAC decode fails? Perhaps it takes a while for the decode to fail, and then LMS falls back on streaming it as PCM? Or perhaps it's recognising that it isn't FLAC and choosing to encode it prior to streaming - hence the delay? These are all just random musings, but the original file size is very suspicious. Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=108209 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
