Re: [dmarc-ietf] From: munging, was Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-26 Thread John Levine
It appears that Douglas Foster said: >But even with an algorithm, the goal seems elusive. Since any liar can >start an ARC chain and insert a set of unverifiable A-R assertions, it >seems that trusting an ARC set requires prior knowledge of whom to trust, Yes, that's a problem although in pract

Re: [dmarc-ietf] From: munging, was Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-26 Thread Alessandro Vesely
On Sun 25/Jul/2021 19:28:12 +0200 Douglas Foster wrote: Ale said: "ARC is not a part of DMARC, despite the acronym being a substring." Is this really true?  Some time ago, the chairs said that ARC was the candidate solution to the mailing list problem, and that DMARCbis would not fly wit

Re: [dmarc-ietf] From: munging, was Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-25 Thread Douglas Foster
> > Ale said: > "ARC is not a part of DMARC, despite the acronym being a substring." Is this really true? Some time ago, the chairs said that ARC was the candidate solution to the mailing list problem, and that DMARCbis would not fly without a mailing list solution. More recently, we seem to be

Re: [dmarc-ietf] From: munging, was Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-24 Thread Alessandro Vesely
On Fri 23/Jul/2021 14:23:01 +0200 Benny Pedersen wrote: On 2021-07-23 12:08, Alessandro Vesely wrote: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/KvSFv66Mz8UipXQ0477UgO5WKio/ all this is solved if maillists stop dkim signing of non origination postings and only do the arc sealing so all dmar

Re: [dmarc-ietf] From: munging, was Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-23 Thread Benny Pedersen
On 2021-07-23 12:08, Alessandro Vesely wrote: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/KvSFv66Mz8UipXQ0477UgO5WKio/ all this is solved if maillists stop dkim signing of non origination postings and only do the arc sealing so all dmarc testers can see originating spf, dkim pass take send

Re: [dmarc-ietf] From: munging, was Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-23 Thread Alessandro Vesely
On Thu 22/Jul/2021 21:51:25 +0200 John R Levine wrote: On Thu, 22 Jul 2021, Alessandro Vesely wrote:  However, I'm not sure whether to actually RECOMMEND to do so. That's simple: no. Yet, From: munging itself resulted from cooperation between dmarcers and MLM people, didn't it? No, it came f

Re: [dmarc-ietf] From: munging, was Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-22 Thread John R Levine
On Thu, 22 Jul 2021, Alessandro Vesely wrote: However, I'm not sure whether to actually RECOMMEND to do so. That's simple: no. Yet, From: munging itself resulted from cooperation between dmarcers and MLM people, didn't it? No, it came from AOL and Yahoo unilateraly using DMARC to outsource

Re: [dmarc-ietf] From: munging, was Ratchets - Disallow PCT 1-99

2021-07-22 Thread Alessandro Vesely
On Thu 22/Jul/2021 20:51:05 +0200 John Levine wrote: It appears that Alessandro Vesely said: On Wed 21/Jul/2021 20:05:41 +0200 Matthäus Wander wrote: Alessandro Vesely wrote on 2021-07-21 19:41: Some lists operate the evasion hack, a.k.a. From: munging, only if the sender has p=quarantine or