Re: [DNG] Drive-by critique

On 12/12/2018 11:14, Rick Moen wrote: A key part of the basis of Eric's argument is irritatingly and obviously untrue: If you want to have more devs, you need to attract a larger userbase. I'm surprised to see Eric advance this non-sequitur. I don't think it's a non sequitur, but I do

Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question

On 24/11/2018 15:08, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Roger: ... There's no clean separation between the "base" system and "everything else". ... I think my urge to have a separate /usr is that I want such a separation and there isn't a clear other place to have it. Is there an underlying rationale

Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question

On 29/11/2018 13:44, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote: Q: Isn't there some filesystem type that supports settings at a more granular level than the device? Like directory or per file? A: Eh ... Don't know. Haven't checked ... Solution: Go fish! # I haven't gone fishing yet but a vague recollection of

Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question

On 29/11/2018 12:57, k...@aspodata.se wrote: Roger: ... Note that to return to the pre-merge policies would be an exercise in futility. It was already an exercise in futility back in 2011 because the number of libraries which /could/ be moved to /lib is an unbounded set. There's always

Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question

On 29/11/2018 10:21, Arnt Karlsen wrote:> On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:26:59 +, Roger wrote in message <38625727-08b2-2816-85b0-8f57d6796...@codelibre.net>: This isn't a bug, or even a feature. It's a deliberate design decision which affects the functioning of the system as a whole. I

Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question

On 28/11/2018 11:36, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr): IIUC, your argument boils down to "depending on /usr for early boot is a *bug*", while Roger told us why it has become a *feature* (~: My view, which I expressed in detail prior to Roger joining the thread, is that

Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question

On 24/11/2018 02:45, Steve Litt wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 12:17:21 + Roger Leigh wrote: Some general points to consider: 1) A separate /usr serves no practical purpose on a Debian/Devuan system Historically, /usr was separately mountable, shareable over NFS. With a package

Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question

On 22/11/2018 18:21, Roger Leigh wrote: Before I follow up on any of the points you (and others) made in response, let me begin with some history you may be unaware of.  It actually predates systemd, and is largely unrelated to systemd. I just rediscovered https://wiki.debian.org

Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question

On 22/11/2018 22:24, Alessandro Selli wrote: On 22/11/18 at 19:21, Roger Leigh wrote: On 21/11/2018 16:11, Alessandro Selli wrote: On 21/11/18 at 13:17, Roger Leigh wrote: Hi folks, I've been following the discussion with interest.    No, you definitely have not followed it.  In fact you

Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question

On 21/11/2018 16:11, Alessandro Selli wrote: On 21/11/18 at 13:17, Roger Leigh wrote: Hi folks, I've been following the discussion with interest.   No, you definitely have not followed it.  In fact you are disregarding all the points that were expressed against the merge. Let me begin

Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question

Hi folks, I've been following the discussion with interest. It's certainly not a new discussion, since I remember debating it a good few years back, but there are still the same opinions and thoughts on the topic that I remember from back then. Some general points to consider: 1) A

Re: [DNG] Making sense of C pointer syntax.

On 28/03/2016 15:35, Steve Litt wrote: On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 06:03:13 -0400 Boruch Baum wrote: Why on this list, of all the possible places in Creation? It's a great and important topic, but have you found no other, more appropriate forum? > Because we're developing

Re: [DNG] FW: support for merged /usr in Debian

On 03/01/2016 14:23, Edward Bartolo wrote: Hi, People don't understand: it is bad to manage their own OS. That is the work for EXPERTS who know BETTER. Users should only be allowed to move the mouse, click its cool buttons, and sometimes use DVDs (CDs) to run recovery software. Other than that,

Re: [DNG] FW: support for merged /usr in Debian

On 02/01/2016 23:39, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Sat, 02 Jan 2016 05:50:15 -0500, Mitt wrote in message

Re: [DNG] FW: support for merged /usr in Debian

On 03/01/2016 14:33, Svante Signell wrote: Hi Roger, Could you please send your text below to debian-devel too? Here at Devuan most people are aware of the issues. Unfortunately many of the Debian developers/maintainers aren't :( None of this is new. It's merely repeating the details of

Re: [DNG] Giving Devuan sans-initramfs capabilities

On 03/01/2016 17:11, Simon Hobson wrote: Roger Leigh <rle...@codelibre.net> wrote: The *real* goal here is something rather simpler: having both / and /usr mounted in the initramfs. The primary reason for this is that there are genuine problems with stuff on / needed in early boot

Re: [DNG] Debianising my uploaded version of netman.

On 16/12/2015 20:03, Edward Bartolo wrote: On 15/12/15 21:00, Rainer Weikusat wrote: Some more remarks on the packaging efforts so far: The rules file in the git repository is override_dh_auto_clean: dh_auto_clean I am very hesitant about deleting

Re: [DNG] gcc error: "error: unknown type name ‘GtkObject’"

On 29/11/2015 16:51, Edward Bartolo wrote: Hi Aitor, Thanks for taking some time to answer my question. I did as you instructed me and successfully compile and run the test program. However, the test program failed to close even though I closed its window. I had to kill it using Ctrl + C.

Re: [DNG] lightweight graphics toolkits (was Experiencing with GtkBuilder)

On 28/11/2015 18:46, Godefridus Daalmans wrote: If your programs depend on CDE, you could try to compile them against lesstif2, that's an LGPL implementation of Motif, on top of just the X libraries. I don't know if it's binary-compatible or if it's actively maintained. Not sure of its

Re: [DNG] Experiencing with GtkBuilder

On 26/11/2015 22:50, Rainer Weikusat wrote: Svante Signell <svante.sign...@gmail.com> writes: On Thu, 2015-11-26 at 19:36 +, Roger Leigh wrote: On 26/11/2015 17:53, Svante Signell wrote: On Thu, 2015-11-26 at 17:04 +, Roger Leigh wrote: On 26/11/2015 15:00, Svante Signell

Re: [DNG] Experiencing with GtkBuilder

On 26/11/2015 15:00, Svante Signell wrote: On Thu, 2015-11-26 at 15:33 +0100, aitor_czr wrote: I agree with you: using "cd build; cmake ../" with *the final purpose* of installing the spinner in the system is a contorsionism. Not really, it's directly analogous to VPATH builds with make (and

Re: [DNG] Experiencing with GtkBuilder

On 26/11/2015 17:16, KatolaZ wrote: On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 05:04:41PM +, Roger Leigh wrote: On 26/11/2015 15:00, Svante Signell wrote: On Thu, 2015-11-26 at 15:33 +0100, aitor_czr wrote: I agree with you: using "cd build; cmake ../" with *the final purpose* of installing t

Re: [DNG] Experiencing with GtkBuilder

On 26/11/2015 20:02, KatolaZ wrote: On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 07:14:35PM +, Roger Leigh wrote: [cut] That's correct. You can put the build directory anywhere you like. But, you do need to chdir to the build directory before running "cmake /path/to/source", just as you do wh

Re: [DNG] Experiencing with GtkBuilder

On 23/11/2015 20:43, Rainer Weikusat wrote: Roger Leigh <rle...@codelibre.net> writes: On 23/11/2015 13:50, Rainer Weikusat wrote: Roger Leigh <rle...@codelibre.net> writes: On 23/11/2015 11:49, Nate Bargmann wrote: * On 2015 23 Nov 00:53 -0600, aitor_czr wrote: In my opin

Re: [DNG] Experiencing with GtkBuilder

On 23/11/2015 18:13, Edward Bartolo wrote: Hi All, The backend, in a way, already handles lists. All I need to do is extract the code and put it in a struct. This 'reinventing of the wheel' will avoid having to content ourselves with what libraries offer whatever that may be. With netman, the

Re: [DNG] Experiencing with GtkBuilder

On 23/11/2015 11:49, Nate Bargmann wrote: * On 2015 23 Nov 00:53 -0600, aitor_czr wrote: In my opinion, using C with lists will be the most suitable. Have you looked at what glib provides? It is an underlying library of GTK and seems to contain many such solutions. Using GLib for

Re: [DNG] Experiencing with GtkBuilder

On 23/11/2015 13:50, Rainer Weikusat wrote: Roger Leigh <rle...@codelibre.net> writes: On 23/11/2015 11:49, Nate Bargmann wrote: * On 2015 23 Nov 00:53 -0600, aitor_czr wrote: In my opinion, using C with lists will be the most suitable. Have you looked at what glib pr

Re: [DNG] Detailed technical treatise of systemd

On 16/10/2015 23:09, Neo Futur wrote: A couple days back, I was playing with Trinity on a PCLinuxOS live CD. Starting the applications **from the CD** was faster than doing the same from a KDE4 desktop *from an SSD*. At the time, I recall GNOME2 and KDE3 being slower than their earlier

Re: [DNG] libpam-xdg-support / libpam-systemd

On 11/09/2015 02:33, Daniel Reurich wrote: On 10/09/15 23:46, Roger Leigh wrote: On 10/09/2015 12:11, tilt! wrote: Since i already use $HOME/.config for configuration data, which more precisely is the default setting of XDG_CONFIG_HOME (according to [1]), i would like to consider the pendant

Re: [DNG] libpam-xdg-support / libpam-systemd

On 17/09/2015 10:01, tilt! wrote: Hi, On 09/17/2015 10:12 AM, Roger Leigh wrote: > On 11/09/2015 02:33, Daniel Reurich wrote: >> We could either use $USER_$SESSIONID or $USER/$SESSIONID to implement >> multiple sessions per user. > > This is definitely possible. I

Re: [DNG] libpam-xdg-support / libpam-systemd

On 17/09/2015 10:31, Tomasz Torcz wrote: On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 11:23:10AM +0200, Jaromil wrote: If rundirs are on non-volatile storage, my implementation can delete them at system shutdown (assuming an orderly shutdown is performed). if you use the /tmp prefix as default then you don't even

Re: [DNG] libpam-xdg-support / libpam-systemd

On 17/09/2015 12:29, Daniel Reurich wrote: On 17/09/15 21:01, tilt! wrote: Hi, On 09/17/2015 10:12 AM, Roger Leigh wrote: > On 11/09/2015 02:33, Daniel Reurich wrote: >> We could either use $USER_$SESSIONID or $USER/$SESSIONID to implement >> multiple se

Re: [DNG] libpam-xdg-support / libpam-systemd

On 10/09/2015 12:11, tilt! wrote: Since i already use $HOME/.config for configuration data, which more precisely is the default setting of XDG_CONFIG_HOME (according to [1]), i would like to consider the pendant XDG_RUNTIME_DIR for the tempfile i have described. Unfortunately, the

Re: [DNG] libpam-xdg-support / libpam-systemd

On 10/09/2015 20:33, tilt! wrote: Hi, in Ubuntu defaults are in X11/Xsession.d/60x11-common_xdg_path which is shipped by x11-common and sourced by XSession > BTW there is some XDG_* env setting also in X11/Xsession.d/00upstart Ok, now if only we knew what to actually use as a default for

Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

On 20/08/2015 11:27, Rainer Weikusat wrote: Roger Leigh rle...@codelibre.net writes: On 19/08/2015 17:39, Rainer Weikusat wrote: [...] static void saveFile(char* essid, char* pw) //argv[1], argv[2] { char *path; FILE *fp; unsigned p_len, e_len; p_len

Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

On 19/08/2015 17:39, Rainer Weikusat wrote: #define IFACE_TMPL \ auto lo\n \ iface lo inet loopback\n\n \ iface wlan0 inet dhcp\n \ wpa-ssid %s\n \ wpa-psk \%s\\n #define IFACES_PATH /tmp static void saveFile(char* essid, char* pw) //argv[1],

Re: [DNG] Devuan and upstream

On 15/08/2015 00:19, James Powell wrote: Slackware is maintained by 3 core people with extra help as needed. The rest of the packages are pushed by the community at large contributing. Devuan doesn't have to maintain every package possible. That's ludicrous to think so. Debian got in over its

Re: [DNG] Devuan and upstream

On 15/08/2015 05:38, Isaac Dunham wrote: On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 02:42:14PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 02:02:22PM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: Seems to me there's something weird, both, in libreoffice depending on just one single version of libstdc++, and in

Re: [DNG] Devuan and upstream

On 15/08/2015 05:57, T.J. Duchene wrote: On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 22:38:35 -0700 Isaac Dunham ibid...@gmail.com wrote: To elaborate on this, GCC 5.1 (I think) has changed the ABI for C++11 support. Packages using C++11 need to be rebuilt with the new library; libreoffice has already been rebuilt,

Re: [DNG] GTK (was Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?)

On 25/07/2015 10:23, Jaromil wrote: On Fri, 24 Jul 2015, Roger Leigh wrote: I imagine the reason why Glib was written in C is because binding to other languages is easier with C than C++. I expect so. C is fairly straightforward. This was certainly the original intent. But having used

Re: [DNG] GTK (was Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?)

On 24/07/2015 05:14, T.J. Duchene wrote: On 7/23/2015 10:41 PM, Isaac Dunham wrote: Now then, as for Roger's comments, I find them confusing. [snip] The C API is overly complex and fragile. You don't want to base your project on a sandcastle. And the expertise required to use it is very

Re: [DNG] GTK (was Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?)

On 24/07/2015 06:37, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 24/07/2015 04:52, Jude Nelson a écrit : I don't care for it myself - because it is C++. Minor correction: GTK is written in C, and relies on GLib, which is also written C. However, it's open to debate as to how similar/different C-plus-GLib is

Re: [DNG] GTK (was Will there be a MirDevuan WTF?)

On 24/07/2015 23:24, T.J. Duchene wrote: On 7/24/2015 5:03 AM, Didier Kryn wrote: Hey T.J., you seem to contradict yourself when saying C and C++ are strongly typed and Type checking is never C's job. :-) Actually, yes, C and C++ are typed, but weakly. They silently do type

Re: [DNG] A better default windows manager

On 24/07/2015 23:48, James Powell wrote: CDE is a classic UNIX desktop, but it has long been since viable for modern usages. Xfce, in truth, was a modern replacement for it using Xforms since Motif was, at the time, under a different license. It bears the same classic layout minus some

Re: [DNG] ZFS root help needed.

On 05/07/2015 00:38, James Powell wrote: Hey guys. I know this is out of the norm, and yes I know all about the CDDL, Btrfs, and other things, but I'm working with ZFS and need some help. I'm try to get my root file system which is at mountpoint=legacy with zpool ztank/linux/root dataset able

Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 10, Issue 12

On 04/07/2015 12:23, Nate Bargmann wrote: * On 2015 04 Jul 05:02 -0500, John Jensen wrote: A lot of software is built using GNU Autotools. It is a very extensive system that has a very steep learning curve in proportion with its power. The GNU documentation serves more as a reference manual

Re: [DNG] [Dng] epoch feature request

On 16/06/2015 18:14, Anto wrote: I was not really sure if script similar to update-rc.d would be relevant to epoch as the way the runlevel is being managed in epoch is different from sysvinit. That is why I am looking for other options. update-rc.d is an *interface* to update service

Re: [Dng] printing (was Re: Readiness notification)

On 15/06/2015 14:35, Steve Litt wrote: On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 08:46:13 +0100 Arnt Gulbrandsen a...@gulbrandsen.priv.no wrote: I really appreciate upstart's way of declaring start x after y. (I believe systemd does the same, which I would like if it weren't one of 500 features.) I've been

Re: [Dng] A novice attempt to speed up Devuan development

/dev with something in /usr is particularly bad; coincidentally, eudev was forked partly because systemd-udev started complaining about configurations with a separate /usr. On configuration files: Roger Leigh would probably know the proper way to handle this. You might try looking

Re: [Dng] What do you guys think about Suggest and Recommends dependency?

, it's essential that the necessary packages are completely and unambiguously specified with plain Depends. Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' schroot and sbuild http://alioth.debian.org/projects/buildd-tools `-GPG