Re: [DNG] ntp setup
Hi Rick, Rick Moen writes: > Quoting Olaf Meeuwissen (paddy-h...@member.fsf.org): > >> I think it's fair to point out that systemd-timesyncd only promises >> Simple NTP (SNTP). How good a job it does of that is another matter >> but at least it explains some of the "quirks" you mention below. > > Put that way, fair point. _But_, the larger context is that a > systematically better job of time sync, using better code and also (in > the case of ntimed-client), _smaller_ code, can be performed instead, > gaining all the advantages of a real NTP client. I had no issues with the larger context so refrained from commenting on that. > Or, to put it a different way, with several excellent genuine NTP > clients to choose among, I deny the existence of a compelling use-case > for any SNTP client, let alone one that's more than a little slipshod. > (systemd-timed's security history, which I didn't get into, is less than > reassuring.) Fully agree. When I looked into timing issues on a Debian server I still maintain, I noticed that systemd-timesyncd only promised SNTP and when I read up on that wondered why anyone in their sane mind would want to use that instead of NTP. > The SNTP protocol is what Windows users settle for, because that's what > they're offered by defaul, and mostly they don't know that they're > missing out. On Linux, we don't need to settle. We definitely don't and the large collection of alternatives, in terms of distributions as well as programs, attests to that :-) Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] APT upgrade (was Re: USB mount problem)
Hi, o1bigtenor via Dng writes: > On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 5:03 AM Alessandro Vesely via Dng > wrote: >> >> On Sat 26/Jun/2021 11:45:46 +0200 o1bigtenor wrote: >> > so you're suggesting the use of >> > # apt update >> > # apt full-grade >> > or is that >> > # apt full-upgrade? >> >> apt-get dist-upgrade? >> > Methinks that's something else again - - - - but - - - I'm getting > confused!!! Please keep in mind that apt and apt-get are two different commands. That said, their sets of upgrade subcommands overlap a bit. Checking the manual pages apt: upgrade full-upgrade apt-get: upgrade dist-upgrade dselect-upgrade Upon first glance manual pages make it look as if full-upgrade and dist-upgrade are the same but I am not sure the details of package dependency conflict resolution it identical for both. On top of that, if you've been tinkering with configuratin options results may differ yet again. > When I look up the man page for apt - - - h - - - its now apt-rpm > and last updates are from 2008 (just a wee while ago). Can't seem to > find anything > somewhat contemporary - - - - - hm - - - - - just quite confused!!! On Beowulf, a `man apt` gives a manual page dated 2019-01-27. If you didn't install man-db and/or are looking for on-line manual pages, try https://manpages.debian.org/apt Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] USB mount problem
On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 13:33:56 +0200 "d...@d404.nl" wrote: > On 26-06-2021 11:45, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 6:10 PM Patrick Bartek via Dng > > wrote: > >> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 11:34:32 +0200 > >> Alessandro Vesely via Dng wrote: > >> > >>> On Tue 15/Jun/2021 20:41:09 +0200 Patrick Bartek via Dng wrote: > I have found that each desktop uses its own method of > automounting. PCManFM may have the mounting code built-in. Or it > may use udiskie. Check PCManFM's dependencies and see if udiskie > is listed. Did you install udiskie yourself? If not, then some > other app did and it's probably needed. If it's not causing > problems, leave it be. > >>> > >>> Right. For spacefm it is udevil. > >>> > >>> Curiously, spacefm was mounting smoothly until yesterday, on > >>> chimaera > >>> + openbox. After I did a system upgrade, I couldn't mount an USB > >>> key any more, until I manually installed udevil. What happened, > >>> dependency changes? > >> This is one of the "gotchas" that can happen when running an "in > >> development" version. As far as why it happen: could be a number > >> of things. Most of the time, it's because a dependency, like > >> udevil to spacefm, become mismatched version-wise. That is, > >> udevil has become "too old" to work with spacefm, and the upgrade > >> process uninstalls it. Try "full-grade" instead of just "upgrade" > >> to get the newer version of the dependencies when "upgrading." In > >> fact, this is the recommended procedure when running an "in > >> development" or testing version. > > Please - - - not understanding the command(s) suggested. > > I usually use : > > # apt update > > # apt upgrade > > > > so you're suggesting the use of > > # apt update > > # apt full-grade > > or is that > > # apt full-upgrade? > > > > TIA > > The right command is apt full-upgrade. > > The main difference between full-upgrade and upgrade is full-upgrade > also delete dependencies which are no longer used. I guess that the > older version apt-get dist-upgrade does do something similar. Weirdly, I've never heard of apt full-upgrade. It is always been; sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get upgrade sudo apt-get dist-upgrade and occasionally one of the upgrades will suggest sudo apr autoremove > > Grtz > > Nick > > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] USB mount problem
On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 04:45:46 -0500 o1bigtenor wrote: > On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 6:10 PM Patrick Bartek via Dng > wrote: > > > > On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 11:34:32 +0200 > > Alessandro Vesely via Dng wrote: > > > > > On Tue 15/Jun/2021 20:41:09 +0200 Patrick Bartek via Dng wrote: > > > > > > > > I have found that each desktop uses its own method of > > > > automounting. PCManFM may have the mounting code built-in. Or > > > > it may use udiskie. Check PCManFM's dependencies and see if > > > > udiskie is listed. Did you install udiskie yourself? If not, > > > > then some other app did and it's probably needed. If it's not > > > > causing problems, leave it be. > > > > > > > > > Right. For spacefm it is udevil. > > > > > > Curiously, spacefm was mounting smoothly until yesterday, on > > > chimaera > > > + openbox. After I did a system upgrade, I couldn't mount an USB > > > key any more, until I manually installed udevil. What happened, > > > dependency changes? > > > > This is one of the "gotchas" that can happen when running an "in > > development" version. As far as why it happen: could be a number of > > things. Most of the time, it's because a dependency, like udevil to > > spacefm, become mismatched version-wise. That is, udevil has become > > "too old" to work with spacefm, and the upgrade process uninstalls > > it. Try "full-grade" instead of just "upgrade" to get the newer > > version of the dependencies when "upgrading." In fact, this is the > > recommended procedure when running an "in development" or testing > > version. > > Please - - - not understanding the command(s) suggested. > I usually use : > # apt update > # apt upgrade > > so you're suggesting the use of > # apt update > # apt full-grade > or is that > # apt full-upgrade? > > TIA full-upgrade. Sorry. Or apt-get dist-upgrade will accomplish the same thing. B ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] USB mount problem
On 26-06-2021 11:45, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 6:10 PM Patrick Bartek via Dng wrote: On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 11:34:32 +0200 Alessandro Vesely via Dng wrote: On Tue 15/Jun/2021 20:41:09 +0200 Patrick Bartek via Dng wrote: I have found that each desktop uses its own method of automounting. PCManFM may have the mounting code built-in. Or it may use udiskie. Check PCManFM's dependencies and see if udiskie is listed. Did you install udiskie yourself? If not, then some other app did and it's probably needed. If it's not causing problems, leave it be. Right. For spacefm it is udevil. Curiously, spacefm was mounting smoothly until yesterday, on chimaera + openbox. After I did a system upgrade, I couldn't mount an USB key any more, until I manually installed udevil. What happened, dependency changes? This is one of the "gotchas" that can happen when running an "in development" version. As far as why it happen: could be a number of things. Most of the time, it's because a dependency, like udevil to spacefm, become mismatched version-wise. That is, udevil has become "too old" to work with spacefm, and the upgrade process uninstalls it. Try "full-grade" instead of just "upgrade" to get the newer version of the dependencies when "upgrading." In fact, this is the recommended procedure when running an "in development" or testing version. Please - - - not understanding the command(s) suggested. I usually use : # apt update # apt upgrade so you're suggesting the use of # apt update # apt full-grade or is that # apt full-upgrade? TIA The right command is apt full-upgrade. The main difference between full-upgrade and upgrade is full-upgrade also delete dependencies which are no longer used. I guess that the older version apt-get dist-upgrade does do something similar. Grtz Nick OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] USB mount problem
On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 5:03 AM Alessandro Vesely via Dng wrote: > > On Sat 26/Jun/2021 11:45:46 +0200 o1bigtenor wrote: > > so you're suggesting the use of > > # apt update > > # apt full-grade > > or is that > > # apt full-upgrade? > > apt-get dist-upgrade? > Methinks that's something else again - - - - but - - - I'm getting confused!!! When I look up the man page for apt - - - h - - - its now apt-rpm and last updates are from 2008 (just a wee while ago). Can't seem to find anything somewhat contemporary - - - - - hm - - - - - just quite confused!!! Regards ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] USB mount problem
On Sat 26/Jun/2021 11:45:46 +0200 o1bigtenor wrote: so you're suggesting the use of # apt update # apt full-grade or is that # apt full-upgrade? apt-get dist-upgrade? Best Ale -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] USB mount problem
On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 6:10 PM Patrick Bartek via Dng wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 11:34:32 +0200 > Alessandro Vesely via Dng wrote: > > > On Tue 15/Jun/2021 20:41:09 +0200 Patrick Bartek via Dng wrote: > > > > > > I have found that each desktop uses its own method of automounting. > > > PCManFM may have the mounting code built-in. Or it may use udiskie. > > > Check PCManFM's dependencies and see if udiskie is listed. Did you > > > install udiskie yourself? If not, then some other app did and it's > > > probably needed. If it's not causing problems, leave it be. > > > > > > Right. For spacefm it is udevil. > > > > Curiously, spacefm was mounting smoothly until yesterday, on chimaera > > + openbox. After I did a system upgrade, I couldn't mount an USB key > > any more, until I manually installed udevil. What happened, > > dependency changes? > > This is one of the "gotchas" that can happen when running an "in > development" version. As far as why it happen: could be a number of > things. Most of the time, it's because a dependency, like udevil to > spacefm, become mismatched version-wise. That is, udevil has become > "too old" to work with spacefm, and the upgrade process uninstalls it. > Try "full-grade" instead of just "upgrade" to get the newer version of > the dependencies when "upgrading." In fact, this is the recommended > procedure when running an "in development" or testing version. > Please - - - not understanding the command(s) suggested. I usually use : # apt update # apt upgrade so you're suggesting the use of # apt update # apt full-grade or is that # apt full-upgrade? TIA ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
