Re: [DNG] why is dist-upgrade trying to remove mate
On Thu, Jan 02, 2020 at 10:45:28PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote: > Hi All, > I just did apt-get update followed by dist-upgrade on a Beowulf > system, and I get this: Hi, I just pushed a new verion of policykit to beowulf. It could be related to that. Do you gave elogind installed? What does apt upgrade try to do? Mark ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] OT: Fedora in Debian
Greetings all. Let's start the new year with something from the Debian forums that might make you shake your head and chuckle. Poor newbie on Windoze hasn't a clue just how funny his last para is: "The problems? The resulting bootable drive isn't booting in UEFI. It can still boot though with a caveat... The boot option is labelled "Linpus Lite". Isn't it weird for other distro's name to come up? A fedora-based distro no less. As of now, I'm thoroughly confused :?" You can read the whole thing here . . . Something's not quite right with the installation image.. http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=17=144808=338c910ca9db4dd45e34a2a02c236434 Just had to share. :D golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] why is dist-upgrade trying to remove mate
Hi All, I just did apt-get update followed by dist-upgrade on a Beowulf system, and I get this: # apt-get dist-upgrade Reading package lists... 0% Reading package lists... 100% Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree... 0% Building dependency tree... 0% Building dependency tree... 50% Building dependency tree... 50% Building dependency tree Reading state information... 0% Reading state information... 0% Reading state information... Done Calculating upgrade... 0% Calculating upgrade... 10% Calculating upgrade... Done The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: albatross-gtk-theme blackbird-gtk-theme bluebird-gtk-theme eom eom-common ffmpegthumbnailer fonts-cantarell gksu greybird-gtk-theme gtk2-engines-murrine gtk2-engines-pixbuf libatkmm-1.6-1v5 libayatana-appindicator3-1 libayatana-ido3-0.4-0 libayatana-indicator3-7 libcairo-perl libcairomm-1.0-1v5 libdbusmenu-glib4 libdbusmenu-gtk3-4 libept1.5.0 libffmpegthumbnailer4v5 libgksu2-0 libglib-perl libglibmm-2.4-1v5 libgnome-keyring-common libgnome-keyring0 libgtk2-perl libgtkmm-3.0-1v5 libgtop-2.0-10 libgucharmap-2-90-7 libmate-menu2 libmate-slab0 libmate-window-settings1 libmatedict6 libmatekbd-common libmatekbd4 libmatemixer-common libmatemixer0 libmateweather-common libmateweather1 libpango-perl libpangomm-1.4-1v5 libpulse-mainloop-glib0 librda-common librda0 libupower-glib3 mate-applets-common mate-backgrounds mate-control-center-common mate-icon-theme mate-icon-theme-faenza mate-media mate-media-common mate-menus mate-panel-common mate-polkit-common mate-power-manager-common mate-screensaver mate-screensaver-common mate-settings-daemon-common mate-system-monitor mate-system-monitor-common mate-themes mate-utils mate-utils-common menu menu-xdg murrine-themes python-gi python-mate-menu Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them. The following packages will be REMOVED: brltty libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0 mate-applets mate-control-center mate-core mate-desktop-environment mate-desktop-environment-core mate-desktop-environment-extra mate-desktop-environment-extras mate-panel mate-polkit mate-power-manager mate-settings-daemon policykit-1 synaptic The following packages will be upgraded: cinnabar-icon-theme clearlooks-phenix-cinnabar-theme desktop-base gtk3-nooverlayscrollbar libfreeimage-dev libfreeimage3 libpcsclite1 libpolkit-agent-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0 9 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 15 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 2,763 kB of archives. After this operation, 20.0 MB disk space will be freed. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n Abort. I did apt-get install on brltty and the mate packages to mark them as manually installed, but apt-get update dist-upgrade again still insists on removing them. Is this a known issue? If yes, then what is the work around. I don't want to uninstall a well running desktop just so I can install it again. Thanks. As far as install report for this system, it was upgraded to Beowulf from a minimal fresh Ascii install back in June with no problems. Greg -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd'
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 14:38:53 -0800 spiralofhope wrote: > On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 13:46:12 -0500 > Steve Litt wrote: > > > What happens if Debian stops supporting sysvinit, or worse, installs > > Halloween Code to greatly complicate systemd replacement? > > I wasn't familiar with the term "Halloween Code". Is this a reference > to Microsoft's internal strategy memorandums? > > https://www.gnu.org/software/fsfe/projects/ms-vs-eu/halloween1.html > https://www.gnu.org/software/fsfe/projects/ms-vs-eu/halloween2.html Looking further, I find the correct term is "AARD Code". It's the code Microsoft put in Windows to error out if Wind3x was run under DR-DOS instead of MS-DOS. DR-DOS was perfectly capable of running Windows, but Microsoft wanted to sell DOS, so they put an error message if DR-DOS was detected. Systemd itself is AARD Code: Whether intentional or not it prevents use of competing software. I believe that AARD code was discussed in one of the Halloween Documents. SteveT Steve Litt December 2019 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists (was: Can we fix this DMARC thing?)
Quoting spiralofhope (spiralofh...@spiralofhope.com): > If an email address successfully receives a few emails but then gets > automatically unsubscribed later, could this be why? That would be a possible reason (but not on this mailing list since the implementation of DMARC migitation a bit over a year ago). GNU Mailman records the fact of it incrementing a subscriber's 'bounce score' (and eventually disabling subscription delivery, and then as a later stage unsubscribing, if bounce score remains persistently[0] high) into log file /var/log/mailman/bounce, which is world-readable for command-line users on the Mailman server. However, that log doesn't include the reason for the 'bounce', in part because Mailman is a bit of a dunce about such things[1], so researching the exact reason then requires also that a site admin look through the logs for the MTA associated with Mailman. > (Or would problematic settings means that no emails would ever be > received in the first place?) Your question's a bit vague. (a) If Mailman cannot reach a would-be subscriber by mail, then the person will be, by definition, unable to complete the three-way handshake process required to subscribe. (b) As a reminder, the typical scenario you are discussing (as quoted near the top of this post) involves adverse consequences _not_ primarily to the subscriber whose domain has an aggressive DMARC policy, but rather some other subscribers. Illustration: Imagine two subscribers to Dng; call them Gmail User and Yahoo User. One day, Yahoo User posts a valid posting to a Dng thread. Mailman receives it, and attempts to re-mail copies out through its local MTA to each Dng subscriber of record, including Gmail User. Because GMail enforces at the time of receipt the declared DMARC policies of what is asserted to be the source domain of an arriving mail, and because yahoo.com has an r=reject DMARC policy and its declared roster of authorised origins for yahoo.com mail doesn't include Dng's MTA host, Gmail 55x-rejects Gmail User's copy. He/she never sees Yahoo User's posting. Worse, Mailman takes note of the 55x rejetion, and increments GMail User's bounce score, in effect sanctioning Gmail User for Yahoo User's domain's (IMO) problem-causing antiforgery procedures. After a few such incidents, Gmail User gets his/her delivery disabled and eventually unsubscribed. Back in the latter half of 2018, this happened a few times and I observed people complaining to Golinux, who was in fact not in a position to read the MTA logs, hence they were complaining to the wrong party and basically shouting at the clouds. (IMO, it really didn't help that a whole lot of folks here are desktop computer users afflicted with what I call helpdesk mentality, where one imagines problems get solved by people complaining rather than doing relevant analysis.) [0] There's some logic to expire out a user's bounce score after something like a month. [1] E.g. Mailman doesn't even try to parse 45x and 55x DSNs the outbound MTA receives when the MTA attempts to deliver a particular subscriber's copy of a mailing list posting. Mailman just notes in its log that a 'bounce' event occurred and increments the user's bounce score, irrespective of what caused the non-acceptance. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd'
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 13:46:12 -0500 Steve Litt wrote: > What happens if Debian stops supporting sysvinit, or worse, installs > Halloween Code to greatly complicate systemd replacement? I wasn't familiar with the term "Halloween Code". Is this a reference to Microsoft's internal strategy memorandums? https://www.gnu.org/software/fsfe/projects/ms-vs-eu/halloween1.html https://www.gnu.org/software/fsfe/projects/ms-vs-eu/halloween2.html ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] [OT] Louis Rossmann (was Catching up)
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 04:00:48 +1100 Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > Some here might be aware of Louis Rossmann I am in particular. He was a pure Linux user for the longest time, but abandoned it to great success and with no regrets. I engaged him on this topic a little after his transition and his response was the unsurprising "I would if".. He ended up aspiring higher than the tools, his time and his interest. Anyhow, some trivia.. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Again, again: DMARC is a no-win problem for mailing lists (was: Can we fix this DMARC thing?)
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 23:47:49 -0800 Rick Moen wrote: > Ergo, often one of the places mailing > lists first notice delivery problems owing to aggressive DMARC > policies is among subscribers receiving their subscription mail on > GMail, who suddenly aren't getting some mailing list traffic, report > their subscriptions disabled on account of mysteriously high 'bounce > scores' or get mysteriously unsubscribed (for the same reason). If an email address successfully receives a few emails but then gets automatically unsubscribed later, could this be why? (Or would problematic settings means that no emails would ever be received in the first place?) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] We need upgrade reports
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 02:58:10PM -0500, fsmithred via Dng wrote: > Please upgrade your highly customized and configured ascii production system > to beowulf and tell us if it works. Okay, DO THIS ON A COPY, not the real > thing. Well, already did on my production systems, not many test machines for home use :-). I have three machines updated within the last two months, sorry, a little bit lengthy now: [notebook]: Updated from ascii to beowulf roughly a month ago. KDE/Plasma Desktop, Firefox, Visual Code from external Microsoft repo, LVM volumes. No issues during upgrade (*), system seems to be stable (no crashes so far) * I don't remind all details anymore but see below for more recent update. [soho nas/server]: Also about a month ago. This was a new machine with a minimal ascii as trampoline for installing beowulf. No issues during upgrade. Machine is headless, no elogind. Currently working services are: Samba AD DC for Windows clients and providing LDAP/Kerberos to Linux hosts, NFS fileserver, Lighttpd + PHP FPM, MariaDB, Amanda Client. The machine sometimes looks up: once a month or so, either during standby (to ram) or wakeup. I suppose related to Mainboard or Bios. [workstation]: Upgraded just a few days ago from ascii to beowulf. Also a pure desktop machine: KDE/Plasma, KMail, Gnome, Firefox, KiCad, Amanda server (not yet used again), Visual Code, Gimp, LVM for root and other filesystems, mixed NVME/HDD. I run upgrade commands from within a "screen" session in a terminal from KDE. Since I forgot to disable screen-saver before, it locked after a while and prompted me to switch to text console, login and perform a "loginctl" command to unlock. This worked, however I'd recommend to either disable all screen savers during upgrade or use a text console for upgrade. I was required some repeats of the "upgrade" / "dist-upgrade" commands. Also an "--fix-broken install" was needed. I think this was related to autofs package: I host a local package mirror as NFS share which is mounted through autofs, when updating autofs, it will restart / remount all autofs shares so the autofs_*.deb disappeared during install of autofs which dpkg doesn't seem to like :-) After upgrade KDE desktop was not installed anymore. I had to manually install it again (kde-plasma-desktop package). Also elogind* was not upgraded, I think the later was related to libsystemd0 package, which was still installed. I had to manually remove libsystemd0. Afterwards I could upgrade elogind*. Is it correct that libsystemd0 is still present in deb.devuan.org for beowulf? Since libelogind0 replaces it, it shouldn't be there at all, right? After upgrade I noticed, that sound in KDE was not working as expected. KDE/Plasma seem to have more or less fully switched to pulseaudio. The pulseaudio package was installed but not working properly. Today I just figured out, that the libpulse0 package from debian ships with a file /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf which changes behavior to not automatically start pulseaudio server by client if needed. Probably since pulseaudio is now started through systemd on Debian: /usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.socket /usr/lib/systemd/user/pulseaudio.service This change actually breaks sound/mixers for all pulseaudio using applications, A freshly installed beowulf with KDE desktop might not deliver sound out of the box. As a quick fix I edited /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf and commented out the setting made there. I see two more persistent solutions: - provide own libpulse0 package without that config file - create a devuan package which installs a 01-reenable-autospawn.conf file to revert the setting Another noticeable thing (Wife) is, that the banshee package is not available anymore (removed from Debian as well). With some quirks I was able to generate it locally from the Debian source. We evaluated some alternatives before but most of them suffer GUI usability and focus to much on for our mood unecessary features. KiCad (electronic cad programm) worked fine at once. Old project was converted without issues and was directly useable again. cheers, Andreas -- gnuPG keyid: 8C2BAF51 fingerprint: 28EE 8438 E688 D992 3661 C753 90B3 BAAA 8C2B AF51 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] We need upgrade reports
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 02:58:10PM -0500, fsmithred via Dng wrote: > Please upgrade your highly customized and configured ascii production system > to beowulf and tell us if it works. Okay, DO THIS ON A COPY, not the real > thing. > > I've upgraded standard no-X systems, xfce and mate desktops, and those went > smoothly. We need more data points. Upgraded my Purism laptop from ascii to beowulf several months ago. No real problems. The only issue I noticed was that the clock disappeared from the toolbar in lxde. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] We need upgrade reports
On Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 09:07:45PM +0200, Dimitris via Dng wrote: > On 12/31/19 9:58 PM, fsmithred via Dng wrote: > > I've upgraded standard no-X systems > > openrc, no-X, task-console-productivity, luks . > > dist-upgraded from fresh 2.1 release to beowulf. > got a segmanation fault during openrc configuration on upgrade and > install failed.. no screenshots available, but it had something to do > with lvm2. so, upgraded lvm2 first, and everything else upgraded > smoothly afterwards. Somewhat concerned about this, once I want to upgrade my server from ascii to beowulf. It uses the logical volume manager for *everything* except /boot. (upgrading my Purism laptop I did some months ago and it works well ever since) My server carries the internet connexion to the rest of the world, so if it goes wrong I can't easily explore the problem with the help of this list. So do I conclude that ascii's LVM2 isn't capable of handling buster? Or is it just a problem between ascii's LVM2 and openrc? Does the upgrade automatically replace the sysv init with openrc? And at what stage in the upgrade should one or did you upgrade LVM2 to avoid trouble? Immediately after changing the sources.lst to buster? Or after the kernel has been upgraded too? -- hendrik > > i also remember dist-upgrade, bringing in libsystemd0 (not sure why), > but after manual installation of libelogind0 it was gone. > > d. > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] We need upgrade reports
On Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 01:01:44PM +0100, r de vreede via Dng wrote: > Re:[DNG] We need upgrade reports > > On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 8:58 PM fsmithred via Dng > wrote: > > > Please upgrade your highly customized and configured ascii production > > system to beowulf and tell us if it works. Okay, DO THIS ON A COPY, not > > the real thing. > > > > I've upgraded standard no-X systems, xfce and mate desktops, and those > > went smoothly. We need more data points. > > > > Thanks, > > fsmithred > > ___ > > Dng mailing list > > Dng@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > I upgraded from Jessie to Ascii to Beowulf and was bitten by this bug > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=924580. Everything else > works fine so far. So dovecot acess to ssl is affected by a dovecot cofiguration file change. Is ssl affected if you are not using dovecot at all? Is this strictly a dovecot problem? -- hendrik > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
