Re: [DNG] Be prepared for the fall of systemd
Quite a few of these concepts for the new OS remind me of Erlang BEAM. Does this comparison make sense? On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 10:36 PM Bruce Perens via Dng wrote: > I came to the conclusion a while back that systemd was symptomatic of the > fact that we had gone as far as the fundamental assumptions of the Unix API > could take us. It is 50 years old, after all. > There is room for replacement of systemd and continuation of Linux and > BSD. But we should be looking forward to something else as the next OS > paradigm. This would include features that have been seen mostly in > experimental operating systems up to now. This is what I think the "next > OS" might be: > > The fundamental OS concept is "Everything's an API" rather than > everything's a file. > APIs rather than libraries and linking. A mechanism to set up an API upon > request, where the details are hidden from the application. The API may run > on a different CPU. This means you need lightweight processes and fast IPC > with the capability to redirect to a slower network connection. > APIs have persistence and can own resources, and have an identifier that > is something like a file descriptor. The replacement for > open/socket/connect/accept is requesting an API with certain resources. > APIs persist until you release them or they can no longer be provided > because the other side has disconnected or a resource becomes unavailable. > No assumption that any API provider lives on your computer. It can be > anywhere, but is often on your computer for efficiency. > No distinction between an API call and a system call. > API calls are not blocking, but have an asynchronous event channel that > the application listens to. > Minimal installation for network-connected systems. API providers live on > the web and can be cached on a local server, and are locally cached on a > resource that is not user writable. > Storage is an API provider and may live elsewhere. Systems may not have > any storage, or may only have caching, or may have local storage. > Message bus appears as an API with an asynchronous event channel. > Configuration by a JSON db. The simplest is just a JSON file with an API > that edits it. It's human-editable and readable, but human editing is not > required for configuration. Local configuration overlaps site-level > configuration. > First-class sessions. This was a big missing element in Unix and I think a > lot of the impetus for systemd. Sessions are API providers and own the > facility that connects processes to all other APIs. They own the user > information and only provide you with APIs that match your privilege. They > own their own resources such as displays, audio, and input devices. You > start with a session and then create processes in it. You can't create a > process without creating a session first, but it may be a headless session, > etc. > No privilege escalation for your session. Login runs in a privileged > session and starts a less privileged user session for you. Some APIs run in > different sessions than you and thus can provide you with privileged > services. > Window systems export the same APIs as the raw display and audio - you can > run an application with or without one. You can run a window system in a > window. Request to open a new window may succeed or fail gracefully, > leaving you with only your root window. > WASM interpreter with access to APIs and privilege control to run > untrusted remote applications the way you access web sites today. They can > access local APIs and their host APIs with different privilege levels. > Both native and WASM executables are first class. Makes porting a lot > easier. > > So, how does this replace systemd and init systems? What we use servers > for today gets replaced by API providers. API dependencies are part of the > metadata in applications, and an application will not start if there is no > provider available for an API. The providers will be started on demand when > the applications ask for them and may be started *before *they are asked > for, simply going by the application list and the session owner's previous > usage. API providers can be retired when the API is released, or not, again > depending on usage information and the application list. API providers may > be local or remote depending on usage data and the necessary resources - if > you use one a lot and it is not bound to a resource with a specific > location, the system can start an API provider locally, but some API > providers may rely on stronger or more specialized compute resources than > your local CPU. Migration of APIs that own resources is not supported - you > can close one and open another. > > Bruce > > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 1:41 PM J.R. Hill wrote: > >> There are a few things that need to be in place for a smooth transition. >> >> For general trust in the project... >> >> 1. the init system itself should be maintained by more than a single >> human. >> 2. the maintainers
Re: [DNG] Warning about Wicd in Chimaera
Yeah, it came out if the blue during one of the last updates. I've been running Chimaera during the last year and didn't expect any drastic changes. I tried to re-install wicd but the number of dependencies was too large. So, it was a pleasant surprise that once the interface is configured I can manage it with simple ifup/ifdown commands :) But I also found a wicd replacement, just in case I want to reconfigure wlan0 one day. It's a Perl script called Ceni and it's available as a package in Chimaera. On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 01:47 Hendrik Boom wrote: > There's no wicd in Chimaera. > If you need it to access the internet, you must replace it with another > network manager *before* you upgrade to chimaera, otherwise you'll not be > able to access the internet to download the replacement network manager > after. > > -- hendrik > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan eBook Reader
My five cents — FBReader, very flexible reader with CSS support and customizable appearance. On Wed, May 26, 2021, 01:10 Antoine via Dng wrote: > On Tuesday, 25 May at 14:01, Steve Litt wrote: > >terryc said on Tue, 25 May 2021 08:35:12 +1000 > > > >>On Mon, 24 May 2021 19:25:16 + > >>g4sra via Dng wrote: > >> > >>> I am shocked at the amount of 'user profiling' the OEM firmware > >>> performs which is then sent to Chinese servers. I have temporarily > >>> knobbled the network until I find a more permanent solution. > >> > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> Has anyone attempted to put Devuan on an eBook yet ? > >> > >>Er, read an e-book on Devuan(jessie, ascii, beowulf and chamaera?)? > >>Just use okular with the extras. all in the appropriate reposiroty. > > > >Or, if you're like me and have banned all KDE software from your > >computer, install callibre, which comes with a nice eBook reader. > > > >SteveT > > Mupdf is lightweight and can read several e-book formats (not only PDF). > > - Antoine > > -- > You are listening to a machine. > Do the world a favour and don't act like one. > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan eBook Reader
Some years ago there was a pretty decent Linux distribution for ebook readers, called Open Inkpot. It was around 2010 and I'm almost certain that it didn't include Systemd, nor any spyware. The choice of hardware was pretty limited at that time, though. On Mon, May 24, 2021, 23:25 g4sra via Dng wrote: > I am shocked at the amount of 'user profiling' the OEM firmware performs > which is then sent to Chinese servers. > I have temporarily knobbled the network until I find a more permanent > solution. > > > Has anyone attempted to put Devuan on an eBook yet ? > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Touchpad on Thinkpad T580 stops working sometimes
Hi, I run Chimaera Devuan on Thinkpad T580. Periodically, about once a day, the touchpad stops responding to all actions. It doesn't scroll or move the pointer. During these blackouts dmesg doesn't display any messages and I still can use the trackpoint. After a short period of time, around 1 minute, the touchpad becomes active again. I would be grateful for any ideas that might help solve the issue. 'xinput list-props 12' produces the following output: --- Device 'Synaptics TM3276-031': Device Enabled (184): 1 Coordinate Transformation Matrix (186): 1.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 1.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 1.00 libinput Tapping Enabled (320): 0 libinput Tapping Enabled Default (321): 0 libinput Tapping Drag Enabled (322):1 libinput Tapping Drag Enabled Default (323):1 libinput Tapping Drag Lock Enabled (324): 0 libinput Tapping Drag Lock Enabled Default (325): 0 libinput Tapping Button Mapping Enabled (326): 1, 0 libinput Tapping Button Mapping Default (327): 1, 0 libinput Natural Scrolling Enabled (328): 0 libinput Natural Scrolling Enabled Default (329): 0 libinput Disable While Typing Enabled (330):1 libinput Disable While Typing Enabled Default (331):1 libinput Scroll Methods Available (332):1, 1, 0 libinput Scroll Method Enabled (333): 1, 0, 0 libinput Scroll Method Enabled Default (334): 1, 0, 0 libinput Click Methods Available (335): 1, 1 libinput Click Method Enabled (336):1, 0 libinput Click Method Enabled Default (337):1, 0 libinput Middle Emulation Enabled (338):0 libinput Middle Emulation Enabled Default (339):0 libinput Accel Speed (340): 0.00 libinput Accel Speed Default (341): 0.00 libinput Accel Profiles Available (342):1, 1 libinput Accel Profile Enabled (343): 1, 0 libinput Accel Profile Enabled Default (344): 1, 0 libinput Left Handed Enabled (345): 0 libinput Left Handed Enabled Default (346): 0 libinput Send Events Modes Available (305): 1, 1 libinput Send Events Mode Enabled (306):0, 0 libinput Send Events Mode Enabled Default (307):0, 0 Device Node (308): "/dev/input/event8" Device Product ID (309):1739, 0 libinput Drag Lock Buttons (347): libinput Horizontal Scroll Enabled (348): 1 --- -- With best regards, Dimitri Minaev ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mssh not working (Chimaera)
The problem seems to be gone after libgtk update. Thanks for the advice! Besides, I've learnt GNU parallel, which is not what I was looking for, but turned out to be a wonderful tool. Le ven. 2 oct. 2020 23:53, g4sra via Dng a écrit : > On 02/10/2020 15:09, Dimitri Minaev via Dng wrote: > -- snip -- > > If you could offer an alternative that provides synchronized input to a > > number of SSH sessions, I'd be glad to hear your opinion. I know that > > similar capabilities are found in Terminator and my favorite Konsole, but > > they are not as comfortable as mssh when you need to open a bunch of > > sessions. > > I cannot say for sure as I have never used mssh, but clusterssh might do > what you are looking for. > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] X11: safe to remove?
Because of Swing, I suppose. Java allows one to create GUI apps, too. On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:38 AM Steve Litt wrote: > On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 08:29:51 +0400 > Dimitri Minaev via Dng wrote: > > > JVM often depends on X11 libs. > > I wonder why. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Autumn 2020 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times > http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- With best regards, Dimitri Minaev ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] mssh not working (Chimaera)
Hi, folks, Does 'mssh' work for you in Chimaera? It used to work for me but now I only get black area instead of the terminal. Tried to compile it from sources, but it requires packages which I couldn't find in repos, vte and gtk+. The latter may be provided by libgtk2 or libgtk3, but I'm not sure. If you could offer an alternative that provides synchronized input to a number of SSH sessions, I'd be glad to hear your opinion. I know that similar capabilities are found in Terminator and my favorite Konsole, but they are not as comfortable as mssh when you need to open a bunch of sessions. -- With best regards, Dimitri Minaev ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] X11: safe to remove?
JVM often depends on X11 libs. вт, 29 сент. 2020 г., 7:49 Gregory Nowak : > On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 09:57:07PM -0400, tempforever via Dng wrote: > > I manage a few remote servers that are running Devuan. Recently (last > > week) I noticed a couple updates to some x11 libraries. I went ahead > > and updated. But now, I'm wondering if it's okay to remove them > > altogether? I do not use any graphical user interface on them. I only > > connect via ssh, and issue text-only commands. > > Looks to me like you'd be safe removing these packages. If you can > take a backup beforehand, I'd suggest doing that to be extra safe, but > I don't think you need these if the machine is a text console only > server. > > Greg > > > -- > web site: http://www.gregn.net > gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc > skype: gregn1 > (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) > If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your > contacts. > > -- > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] terminology
Directory entry? вс, 23 авг. 2020 г., 21:56 Steve Litt : > On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 03:19:12 -0700 > spiralofhope wrote: > > > On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 09:59:53 -0400 > > Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > > > Is there an establiched word in the Linux/Unix xommunity > > > for something which might be a file or a directory? > > > > Perhaps something like inode? > > Inode is a number used to locate a file or directory, so it's the wrong > word for this purpose. I'd suggest either "file or directory", or to > coin your own word (filerectory?). > > I coined the word wmde to stand for "Window manager or desktop > environment", because in many cases you can use either to fulfill the > same basic purpose. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Autumn 2020 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times > http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
