LOL that self-centric poof[1], that tells people
what to do[2], has #gnome in one row with #geek[3].
Don't forget to add #mentallychallenged,
Laurent Bigotville.
[1]:https://twitter.com/bigonbe
[2]:https://twitter.com/bigonbe/status/729032669254844420
[3]:http://imgur.com/PLoVJTI
Go Linux wrote:
This is all warm and fuzzy but very OT. Please take
your "therapy" off-list. Or better yet, get
comfortable enough with yourself that a four-legged
crutch isn't necessary to give meaning to your
existence.
What do you consider on topic then? This list has
seen discussions
Steven W. Scott wrote:
> Wow. Funny that, my view is:
> Windows: Gaming
> Linux: everything else
I am kind of a "hardcore" gamer,
nowadays especially in Sauerbraten
and Urban Terror, back then in RedEclipse,
I actually think that the situation with
games is good.
Count here 0 A.D., Battle
> The current init system is old. Ancient.
> We should all agree on it. Devuan is looking
> for a new init system that is not systemd and my
> personal choice for this task from now on is
> Gentoo's OpenRC.
Unix is old. Ancient. We should all agree on it.
Devuan is looking for a new base system
Steve Litt wrote:
> International Conference on Chemistry and
> Chemical Process? That's what I found for
> this acronym.
It's ICCCM, a.k.a. I39L, Inter-Client Communication
Conventions Manual, a standard for window
managers [1].
/ Mitt
[1]:
SpaceFM with udevil automounts external
devices. Removing gvfs also means no
automount in Thunar, apart from
losing wastebasket. udevil works
from console, too.
/ Mitt
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aitor_czr wrote:
> Here you are an example about how to build a
> gtkmm application using cmake:
[...]
Hey,
Let me put my two cents in. I wouldn't be using
both gtkmm and CMake. GTK+ by itself is not
very beautiful (glib), GTK+3 just sucks, but
gtkmm implements this using C++.
CMake is
Steve Litt wrote:
> So, if I took dwm, packaged it with the fbpanel
> panel, an fbpanel config tool,
Why would you use fbpanel with dwm though,
the default bar is pretty hackable. Certainly, if
you need a window list, then why not, but since
dwm is a tiling window manager by default
(and
Didier Kryn wrote:
> Sorry Steve but there is a technical difference. l
> Wikipedia:
[...]
> Talking of ignorance is excessive; but let's try to
> disentangle things.
I suppose, he meant that there's a fine line between
a window manager and a DE sometimes.
EDE (Equinox Desktop
Rainer Weikusat wrote:
People who may not know it yet but who are (like me) prone to inverting
two letter command names every once in a while might want to have a
look
at the sl package/ program.
https://github.com/nvbn/thefuck (package exists in the repos)
Simon Walter wrote:
> If by desktops you mean DE, then I thought some
> have some dependencies on systemd by way of the
> included packages. DE vs. window manager.
> There is a big difference.
By desktops I mean DEs, and none of I have ever met
have hard dependency on systemd. They have kind
Rob van der Putten wrote:
> Which desktops work without systemd?
> A list would be nice.
Every desktop environment is known
to work without systemd. GNOME3 works
on Funtoo, Slackware, FreeBSD, OpenBSD,
DragonflyBSD. It depends on the
distribution itself.
/ Mitt
hellekin wrote:
> Thanks Mitt. That means it would be candidate
> for the contrib component, right? (Which is not
> supposed to be part of Devuan.)
Frankly, no idea. I have never used Skype, nor have
a Microsoft account (removed right after throwing
away my Lumia; smartphones suck by the way).
hellekin wrote:
> Does apulse serve for anything else than
> running non-free spyware?
From GitHub[1]:
Project is in stale state since its proclamation.
The main objective, working Skype test call,
is reached. I don't have any plans for further
development.
[1]:https://github.com/i-rinat/apulse
dev wrote:
I was wondering if anyone could offer some clarity on how best to
apply patches on Debian derived systems? There are so many options
across apt-get and aptitude... I cannot make sense of them all:
apt-get upgrade
apt-get dist-upgrade
apt-get safe-upgrade
aptitude upgrade
Nuno Magalhães wrote:
> As is a lot of everything else...?
I pointed out, that not by Canonical. Certainly,
pretty much everything out there is made by a
community.
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Rainer Weikusat wrote:
Ehh ... you do realize that - for as long as people like Mr Baum keeps
posting his entirely pointless insults or the person hiding behind the
moniker "GoLinux" keeps expatiating her inability to understand that
she's not the center of the universe and that the
Boruch Baum wrote:
> No improvement.
This requires, certainly, consolekit
to be installed and. xinitrc with
"startxfce4 --with-ck-launch"
I don't have an opportunity to
try myself, as I dumped Xfce
a quarter ago in favour of Openbox
and then dwm, but the shenanigans
I'm sending were sent by me
Boruch Baum wrote:
> I don't yet have a working solution for 'switch-users',
> 'shutdown', or 'restart'.
Try these:
create /etc/polkit-1/localauthority/50-local.d/consolekit.pkla and with the
content:
--
[restart]
Identity=unix-user:*
Hendrik Boom wrote:
Canonical seems also th have bee floating the BSD banner lately. It's
just possible that's related to the hard-to-find Debian BSD project.
If you mean ubuntuBSD, it's made by a community.
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I've just visited the DW page[1], which says:
Debian (formerly Debian GNU/Linux)
I couldn't find any information on that.
Maybe ye have some?
I'd rather prefer these: systemdebian,
Debian systemd/Linux, Deb Hat, Debora/Dedora,
Fedorian. (sorry, couldn't resist)
Peace,
Mitt
Twisted Fate wrote:
Which version did you try?
It was with Bodhi, when it used the original E, not that
remake they use now, so probably a couple years ago.
The whole experience was pretty crappy, including "friendliness", fonts,
theme, and those shadows were very likely damned by gods.
Rainer Weikusat wrote:
> BTW, did someon ask the donkey for
> permission to put his image on this page?
It's from her Instagram. Look up @sexy_ass95
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Boruch Baum wrote:
You know what. How about this. Think of systemd as that girlfriend you
broke up with. You've decided to dump systemd, so be done with it.
Leave
it behind and move on. It's over. If you can't forget about her, its
not
over, and frankly, something in your head is messed up.
Simon Walter wrote:
...so challenging his actions on a technical level would be difficult.
Not really. Take a look at systemd changelogs, and you'll find out,
how many new "features" it has now. It now has X11 and a terminal.
And your screen brightness can't be lower than 5%, because the
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lennart_Poettering=703955376
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Chris wrote:
Just wondering if there has been any movement in fixing the Ceres
merged
repository?
Look like nobody cares :(
Is there perhaps a workaround for this issue.
I could only suggest switching to Debian Sid repositories
and angband.pl [1] (Thanks, Adam :) )
[1]: from my
Rob wrote:
> Looking at http://packages.devuan.org/merged/pool/
> there is nothing there, though
> http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/ is populated.
/merged/pool are unmodified Debian packages,
/devuan are Devuan's.
There is insufficient signing (look up the thread
I started last week) in Ceres
Hendrik Boom wrote:
> Because most users aren't experts,
> and those who are can usually figure
> out how to choose the expert install.
> After all, they are experts.
Yes, but, at the end of the day, isn't Devuan
supposed to be a distribution for those
"experts"? "Most users", I reckon, don't
Daniel Reurich wrote:
> *buntu users apparently..
*buntu users use *buntu :)
> Indeed. And you have that option to
> skip creating users in the "expert
> install" method.
So, this "expert install" has much
more capabilities, why isn't it the default
one?
Mitt
aitor_czr wrote:
> If you leave empty root's password,
> the user created during the installation
> will have sudo permissions and then
> sudo will be installed.
But who would ever leave their root
password empty?
I actually prefer to add a user after the
installation and initial setup of the
Boruch Baum wrote:
> Two minor annoyance issues,
> and one curiosity, in today's install of
> devuan-cli:
[...]
> 1] sudo is not installed by default
Last time I installed Debian (it was Wheezy
probably a year ago), I didn't see sudo in
the default Xfce installation. I suppose,
'tis still not
From the latest "apt update":
--
W:
gpgv:/var/lib/apt/lists/archive.getdeb.net_ubuntu_dists_wily-getdeb_InRelease:
The repository is insufficiently signed by key
1958A549614CE21CFC27F4BAA8A515F046D7E7CF (weak digest)
W:
Steve Litt wrote:
> Where can I download Devuan's beta?
In the future (sorry, couldn't resist).
> I have a suggestion: I know that the website
> is being redesigned as we speak, but IMHO,
> right now, today, links should be placed at the very
> top of the current https://devuan.org website
>
https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4a0asv/warning_windows_7_computers_are_being_reported_as/
There is strong language in the comment section. Some report,
the upgrade breaks bootloaders.
Mitt
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Here are even more:
Info on SysV ABI:
http://www.x86-64.org/documentation/abi.pdf
amd64 registers:
http://www.logix.cz/michal/devel/amd64-regs/
x86 opcode and instruction reference:
http://ref.x86asm.net/
Thanks to genss from LQ.
All links are collected in the thread
on LQ:
This question is long-standing, but I forget to
ask it. What's wrong with Wayland? I never used
it, except for a couple of broken Fedora Live
sessions, when everything freezes.
Mitt
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Stephanie Daugherty wrote:
>There's a fairly elegant, but seldom used solution
>to this problem,. GNU Stow, which is designed to
>basically be a "package manager" for locally installed
>packages.
What about checkinstall? It can create a .deb package
by checkinstall -D. So, instead of make
There's Shotwell, that had been working for me
for quite some time. It's a photo organiser, and
may help.
Mitt
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Thanks for the advice and the links, Emiliano.
I appreciate it.
Peace,
Mitt
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Emiliano Marini wrote:
>I teach assembly, but x86. I use yasm to compile and ddd to debug.
>You can start with this:
[...]
Thank you, sir, that's galore. I myself found asm.sourceforge.net
and dugan from LQ recommended me http://programminggroundup.blogspot.ca/
Why do you use yasm? If we
https://twitter.com/ShitDevuanSays/status/699623023188561922
Those RH/GNOME3 trolls don't seem to like E :(
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Scooby wrote:
>However me who never ever ran debian and are somewhat unfamiliar with
>init here ran into problem getting vdev to run at start up?
There is actually a couple of documents available,
the first is README [1] and the second is How to Test vdev
[2].
>I tried putting it into
Hi,
I believe, here are some people that know assembly, I'd like to know
what resources would ye recommend that teach it. Preferably AT syntax
using gas.
I do my coding in C, but always wondered about something low level.
Also, I have a book The Art of Assembly Language, that focuses
on
Steve Litt wrote:
>Here's info on dmenu:
dmenu is made by suckless.org:
http://tools.suckless.org/dmenu/
>Hotkey to bring up Dmenu?
Alt+p, default in dwm (and some other).
>Hotkey to bring up window list sorted by workspace?
There is middle click in Openbox, though I disabled
it. Agree with
Edward Bartolo wrote:
>I think systemd is aimed at desktop users assuming that most
>Linux users are also desktop users.
LOL, since when most Linux users are desktop users?
Linux market share on desktop is around 1-2%, while on
servers open-source operating systems maintain around 90%
Emiliano Marini wrote:
>He isn't forcing anyone to adopt systemd, it's distribution
>developers fault.
He himself isn't, the company he works at does.
We don't know the relationship between TC of Debian
and RH.
>If Gnome forces a dependency upon systemd, dump
>Gnome.
It doesn't really
asbesto wrote:
>Really I don't know what kind or version of E are all you using>because here
>works like a charm, it's pure beauty, simple and
>effective.>and only 60 Mb.
>Icons and everything.
>Are we talking about the same Enlightenment? :D
[by the way, you replied to me directly]
Revision 8.25-2 disables default quoting now.
Mitt
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Hi,
In case you haven't read this,
Denys Vlasenko tells about
his experiences with sysvinit.
There he refers to daemontools
and runit as superior to the traditional
init.
https://busybox.net/~vda/init_vs_runsv.html
Mitt
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>Pipes and files.
Oh, aye, how could I forget this :(
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Adam Borowski wrote:
>The relevant bug is
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=813164
This lad, Pádraig, says, that it happens only
when outputting to terminals. I wonder,
where else you can output ls.
And surely, pasting this back to anywhere,
the result will be the same:
Adam Borowski wrote:
>script names: no.
>C/Pascal/COBOL sources: no.
>mp3/videos/ebooks/etc: hell yes.
[...]
>The change is breaking valid use cases.
I definitely understand the indignation,
yet I can't imagine cases, where mp3/ebooks/
et al. are used in scripts.
>The relevant bug is
"The history of bloat:
2008 - KDE 4
2011 - GNOME 3 (and Unity, Cinnamon etc.)
2015 - Xfce 4.12
Enlightenment: 'We have been making bloat since 1997'"
:P
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Debian is officially dead.
Squeeze was the last one,
traditional Debian that long-term GNU/Linux users were
used to. GNOME2, no PulseAudio by default, sysvinit,
no mention of systemd whatsoever. And no debates over
these.
2011, the year Debian 6 came out, was, to me, crucial.
Remember, GNOME3,
Jaromil wrote:
>Or am I the only one seeing a "systemd sucks" here
written with invisible ink?
Looking at comments there, it seems it's about
the size of the system and systemd is definitely
too big for them, just as the whole GNU userland
and glibc in particular.
Mitt
Steve Litt wrote:
>Are you running wpa_supplicant as a daemon? Excluding passwords,
>what does your wpa_supplicant.conf look like?
[...]
>Are you running dhcpcd as a daemon? What is the command line?
[...]
I mentioned here once, that I use a simple script for connecting
to our local wireless
Florian Zieboll wrote:
>The new syntax works fine on my Jessie systems, no need for
>double entries.
Nice :)
>It is running sysv-init with XDM
>and DWM / JWM and all the "major components"
>like dbus, udev and even cups.
You may even want to remove dbus package, if there is no
dependency on
Haines Brown wrote:
>systemd-udevd seems to have switched my wireless interface
>from wlan0 to wlp3s0.
I highly recommend to use udev from Wheezy/Jessie on Unstable
and pin the package ("apt hold udev"). Vdev one day will be our
default device manager anyway.
The correct way to prevent a
Go Linux wrote:>Needless to say, I am NOT going to install it.Why not then pin libsystemd0 two times,both "old APT" and "new APT (>1.1)" ways?As we have been discussing pinning for a while now,you probably have seen the "new way."Avoiding libsystemd0 without angband.pl repos isnot possible yet
Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>What's the base for the claim that neither old nor new pinning methods
>'work'?
$ cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/avoid-systemd
Package: systemd-sysv
Pin: release o=Debian
Pin-Priority: -1
$ sudo apt install systemd-sysv
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Hi,
Got the error now:
$ sudo apt update
[...]
E: Release file for http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/dists/unstable/InRelease
is expired (invalid since 4h 27min 55s). Updates for this repository will not
be applied.
Ceres/Unstable
//Mitt
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dev1fanboy,
Since APT pinning no longer works, the purpose of
the guide [1] is uncertain to me.
I would also add spacefm to the list [2]; transcript from
the site [3]:
"SpaceFM & udevil can be used completely without systemd,
consolekit, policykit, dbus, udisks, gvfs & fuse
(although it can
I have noticed, that Go Linux' messages were not delivered
to me, yet they are shown on the site (lists.dyne.org).
And my spam folder is empty.
I am using Yahoo!Mail as well, and wonder, whether my emails
are delivered.
Mitt
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Florian Ziebolli wrote:
>What entries do you have in your sources.list? Here it's only "jessie"
>and "jessie-updates" from de.mirror.devuan.org/merged/
I'm using Unstable/Ceres. Starting from APT 1.1 pinning rules
have changed. We had a conversation on it a month ago:
We actually have a lot of shops, mostly small, that do their business
in Internet, they offer cheap low-end laptops (well, having 4GB of RAM
is low-end these days).
Dell has own line with Ubuntu pre-installed.
There is also an option to buy one of those Pis, especially Pi Zero,
which is
I wrote:
>they offer cheap low-end laptops (well, having 4GB of RAM
is low-end these days).
They have Linux pre-installed, forgot to mention.
I've seen maybe a couple only high-end laptops with
Linux, and they are made by Dell.
So, looking through the market, chances are, you'll
see galore,
Dave Turner wrote:
>You buy the laptop with Windows 10 installed
When buying a machine with Windows
pre-installed, a customer pays for Windows as well.
They can request a refund before activating the
license, but will actually receive a smaller amount of
money than they spent, if some at all
dev1fanboy wrote:
>One of the better ones for the purpose of keeping pulse and dbus out is xine
>(xine-ui).
It is ugly, wants over nine thousooond packages to be installed,
including samba-libs...
>A good music player is cmus which uses ncurses and has playlist support, does
>not use any
Removes GNOME3
Removes systemd
Removes Xfce
Removes 9wm
Removes X
Removes their package manager
Removes make, because "I can cc everything by myself"
Removes C++ programmes
Removes C programmes
"Why do I need Assembly when there is machine code"
Hi,
As I recently have been playing with window managers,
mostly FVWM, i3 and now it's Openbox, to latter I switched
from Xfce because I have decided not to go with D-Bus,
I am now in need to find a lightweight media or, precisely,
video player.
In Xfce I had been using Parole, because it's
As long as this made some impact, I'd like
to point out that, in my opinion,
'tis not bad when particular people
work in particular companies, while
having a part time job in other projects.
Linux, GNU and their childer should not
be affiliated with companies such as Microsoft.
Microsoft has
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/debian-images-now-available-on-azure/
Debian will be offered as an endorsed operating system in Azure Marketplace.
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Steve Litt wrote:
>if I were allowed to post to Debian-user
Steve, why would they ever ban you?
You don't sound like a man that can troll
or whatever on a mailing list.
Mailing list mate wrote:
>By the way: whether there is a documentation describing best practices
>and "use cases" for
Does that actually mean that we should migrate
to newer kernels as soon as the hole gets fixed?
I reckon, even though there are plenty of
machines that run older than 3.8 (2.6.32 notably)
this affects pretty much everyone, at least here.
Well, applying patches is not something
time-consuming,
Steve Litt wrote:
>Does dunst depend on dbus?
Well, according to apt-cache depends, it needs dbus' shared library
(libdbus-1-3).
>Can dunst be run without dbus?
>Can notify-send be run without dbus?
Since it doesn't depend on dbus package, which contains
dbus-daemon, it may be able to.
Not
Steve Litt wrote:
>I'm not for a moment suggesting Devuan should remove Debian's libdbus
>dependency. We have bigger fish to fry.
$ apt-cache rdepends libdbus-1-3
libdbus-1-3
Reverse Depends:
(...)
436 packages at all on my Unstable
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Tomasz Torcz wrote:
>Slackware switched to eudev in order to avoid systemd.
Shame on me not reading the whole thing. Still, systemd is not mentioned (:
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Adam Borowski wrote:
>I see not a single piece of hardware from this millenium.
>Thus, OSS is not just obsolete, it's historic.
According to the list, it can't work on my machine, which is
made in this century (2013 to be exact).
Please take a look at this article (last edited in 2011):
Emiliano Marini wrote:
>Word from Eric Hameleers, one of the main Slackware maintainers (AKA alienbob):
>>"...you have to have PA installed because applications are now linking
>>against it.
>>What you can still do is configure PA to be an input channel for ALSA and
>>leave ALSA to control
I wrote:
>by happy chance we do have OSS option, which is simpler and portable
>and simply works.
Also, if you go with OSS, you need neither xfce4-volumed, nor
xfce4-mixer, because:
- OSS has its own mixer;
- volume keys can be configured to be used with it.
Frankly, I don't understand, why
...because of BlueZ 5 and Xfce.
Looks like those xfce4-volumed and xfce4-mixer are dropped *in favour*
of PulseAudio (as they say because of gstreamer).
Developers of BlueZ simply stopped supporting ALSA.
In other news, current branch has got 4.4 kernel, which, by the way, came
up only four
Svante Signell wrote:
> What about: (saves a copy of the old file):
> blah-blah-blah
Why not simply check .xinitrc first and put "startxfce4" or whatever
inside with a text editor?
By the way, I have "startxfce4 --with-ck-launch."
My two eurocents,
Ángel Ramírez Isea wrote:
>IMHO, at some point we will have to start ignoring whatever they do.
What does RH produce so it can't be replaced in favour of an alternative?
Maybe GTK+ only, which is made by the GNOME Project, where RH
employees work... But it's indirect. And we still use GTK+2
>I'm sure M$ has a good answer to this question.
>And GNOME has a registry, too, which is a very good thing to have, I was told
>;-)
Xfce has it as well but it is far from Windows' registry (though I am not
familiar with Windows at all),
it is simply a programme to manage XML configuration
Karl Hammar wrote:
>But then, /etc-less systems are thought about:
>[http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/stateles](http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/stateless.html)s.html
PulseAudio motto is "I'll break your audio",
Lennartd should be "I'll break your Unix".
What's next, I wonder. If they call it
Yours truly wrote:
>I think that Gentoo people (and Funtoo) don't experience problems we have, like
>patches, messed and missed dependencies that change over and over;
>I mean, their packaging system is simpler.
Most of the time the problem is package maintainers that use horrible
dependencies,
Simon Wise wrote:
>There was a very aggressive push to drop the GNU from the GNU/linux name some
>time ago, it was fairly successful. But of course android/linux is just as much
>linux as any other system with linux as the kernel (and because of that I can
>compile a suitable busybox, put it in
Bryan Baldwin wrote:
>Gentoo lovers have already been using this patchset to keep GNOME 3
>systemd-less.
>It would be great to get an even larger part of the systemd-free community
>behind this project.
>I'd love to see Devuan GNOME 3 packages :)
I think that Gentoo people (and Funtoo) don't
Well, the list is named Debian (Devuan?) is Not GNOME,
still, what are the plans towards it?
I have been playing with Debian GNOME3 installation but
upgrading from Stable to Unstable was a disaster, APT
wanted to remove everything from the system,
including systemd, even though it didn't know
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
>I want to point out, that TDE is very configurable (which cannot be said from
>GNOME 2/3),
>and kmail is the best mail client with maildir support available.
My personal problems with TDE:
- it's a Qt DE;
- it's ugly;
- it's waaay too configurable, with own settings
Joel Roth wrote:
>Nice to see someone mention i3. Except for the rare
>multipanel app such as gimp, I find i3 works well for my
>needs. It seems faster to flip through the open tiled
>windows with keyboard shortcuts than clicking and moving
>windows on a desktop.
GIMP has a single-window mode by
KatolaZ wrote:
>Thanks for pointing CRUX out Mitt. However, installing from sources is
>probably not what an average Devuan user would like to do :)
I'd like to point that from an end-user perspective installing software
is not much different from even Debian:
1) user adds a repository (because
aitor_czr wrote:
>Without the initramfs support the distro would not run in live mode.
Sure, as long as an installer usually runs from an initramfs, the support is
needed for an installation media.
Mitt___
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>Note that some of the systemd devs have started work on bus1 (their own
>replacement for kdbus).
I guess the name is systemdbus (:___
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Not sure about poetteringisation (of how should this be spelled?)
but take a look at this link:
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge/
and this
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/UsrMove (see owners)
and even this
KatolaZ wrote:
>The only reason it is needed, as Rainer pointed out, is to host all the drivers
>needed to mount the root fs (or to be more precise, to mount *any*
>unknown root fs, as a kernel shipped with a general-purpose
>distribution has to do).
>If your root fs does not change every five
KatolaZ wrote:
>You forget the fourth step:
>4) wait for a certain amount of time before your package is compiled.
Sure, but unless you install software all the time each day one by one,
it doesn't really matter. CRUX is not a rolling-release distro, doesn't have
package revisions as in Debian,
I forgot about 9MB footprint after the first boot in CRUX, with my custom kernel
supporting everything that I need (pretty much the same kernel I am using
now, except for now it is 3.18.25, then it was 3.18.20).
Here in Devuan I have 19MB but with services on startup (dbus, acpid etc.)
And CRUX
>Still can't understand why so much stuff about systemd seems to allude
>to it being started as a personal project by LP & KS. Is that actually
>the case, or was it initiated and paid for by RH (as I suspect) ?
From what I've read, systemd began as kind of hobby, a side project,
and wasn't
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