Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Jaromil]

dear Nate,

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017, Nate Bargmann wrote:

> I emailed a followup to 6...@bugs.devuan.org and received an
> acknowledgment from the BTS but the message has not appeared on the
> bug's Web page.

I have the same problem and this and other issues were addressed in
our last developer meeting. There will be a follow-up on the
devuan-dev list, likely and Katolaz is working hard on the BTS to
enable also usage via dev-scripts. Any help is appreciated.


ciao



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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Nate Bargmann]

I emailed a followup to 6...@bugs.devuan.org and received an
acknowledgment from the BTS but the message has not appeared on the
bug's Web page.

- Nate

-- 

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possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2017 05 Jun 02:07 -0500, KatolaZ wrote:
> Hi Nate,
> 
> thanks for your email. The issue is known. That string is saying you
> that reportbug was unable to fetch existing relevant bugs from
> bugs.devuan.org. The reason is that reportbug expects to find a SOAP
> service running on bugs.devuan.org, that we have not activated
> yet. The reason we have not activated it yet is that Devuan is an
> opportunity to get rid of bloated stuff, and using a SOAP query to get
> a list of bugs that can be retrieved without a SOAP request is bloat,
> imho.
> 
> You can still ignore the message and carry on with the report, for the
> moment.

That's unfortunate.  Without being able to query the BTS, how am I to
avoid duplicate reports unless I check the Web site first?  How can I do
a followup to an existing report through reportbug?

The package I was checking is flashplugin-nonfree which I found later is
Devuan bug #69.  Without an update from upstream Debian, it will be up
to us to provide a patch and a package that tracks the current Flash
version, if possible.

(Yes, I generally abhor Flash, but others in the family need it for
sites I don't visit).

- Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[KatolaZ]

On Mon, Jun 05, 2017 at 08:06:44AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:

[cut]

> 
> We must retain the useful functionalities, avoiding to get absolutely
> everything on board, since there is also a kitchen sink, a washing
> machine, an maybe a crocodile or two in there...:)
> 
> In the same spirit, I am also reviewing devscripts. Any help with
> that, even with testing, will be appreciated.
> 

Sorry, I forgot to say that since yesterday there is a new version of
reportbug for ascii in the repos (7.1.6+devuan2.1). Please be sure to
use that one if you are reporting a bug for ascii. Moreover, now the
"ascii" tag is recognised by bugs.devuan.org. 

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, Jun 04, 2017 at 10:00:03PM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:

[cut]

> 
> 
> Nevermind that my email address is incorrect as I had not yet created a
> $HOME/.reportbugrc on that computer.
> 
> I did create $HOME/.reportbugrc and uncommented the line of "bts
> devuan", set my email, realname, and replyto variables and nothing else
> and I still get the:
> 
> Unable to connect to Devuan BTS; continue [y|N|?]?
> 
> error message, even on this desktop.  The BTS doesn't seem to be down as
> I can access it via the Web.  Is there a hardcoded URL that could be
> incorrect?


Hi Nate,

thanks for your email. The issue is known. That string is saying you
that reportbug was unable to fetch existing relevant bugs from
bugs.devuan.org. The reason is that reportbug expects to find a SOAP
service running on bugs.devuan.org, that we have not activated
yet. The reason we have not activated it yet is that Devuan is an
opportunity to get rid of bloated stuff, and using a SOAP query to get
a list of bugs that can be retrieved without a SOAP request is bloat,
imho.

You can still ignore the message and carry on with the report, for the
moment.

TBH, I am quite astonished in seeing that reportbug itself has grown
to something like 10k LOC. This is A LOT, considering that we are
talking of a python script that has to prepare an email, and there are
around functioning posix kernels which are much smaller than that.

We are considering the possibility of introducing an SMTP relay, just
for the BTS, but most of the rest can and must be definitely
simplified.

We must retain the useful functionalities, avoiding to get absolutely
everything on board, since there is also a kitchen sink, a washing
machine, an maybe a crocodile or two in there...:)

In the same spirit, I am also reviewing devscripts. Any help with
that, even with testing, will be appreciated.

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Nate Bargmann]

I just ran into a similar issue trying to use reportbug on a computer I
installed Devuan 1.0 Stable a week ago today using the Netinstall ISO.

Here is what happened when running reportbug for the first time:

$ reportbug flashplugin-nonfree
Warning: no reportbug configuration found.  Proceeding in novice mode.
Detected character set: UTF-8
Please change your locale if this is incorrect.

Using 'Nate Bargmann ' as your from address.
Getting status for flashplugin-nonfree...
Will send report to Devuan (per lsb_release).
Querying Devuan BTS for reports on flashplugin-nonfree (source)...
Unable to connect to Devuan BTS; continue [y|N|?]? y
Maintainer for flashplugin-nonfree is 'Bart Martens '.
Looking up dependencies of flashplugin-nonfree...

Briefly describe the problem (max. 100 characters allowed). This will be the 
bug email subject, so keep the summary as concise as possible, for example: 
"fails to send email" or "does
not start with -q option specified" (enter Ctrl+c to exit reportbug without 
reporting a bug).
> 
reportbug: exiting due to user interrupt.


Nevermind that my email address is incorrect as I had not yet created a
$HOME/.reportbugrc on that computer.

I did create $HOME/.reportbugrc and uncommented the line of "bts
devuan", set my email, realname, and replyto variables and nothing else
and I still get the:

Unable to connect to Devuan BTS; continue [y|N|?]?

error message, even on this desktop.  The BTS doesn't seem to be down as
I can access it via the Web.  Is there a hardcoded URL that could be
incorrect?

To recap, I originally got the "Unable to connect" message on a machine
that was a clean Devuan Jessie Stable installation.  I also receive it
on a machine that was migrated over from Debian Jessie.  I have
confirmed that the reportbug package is at version 6.6.3+devuan1.3 on
both computers.

- Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Joachim Fahrner]

Am 2017-05-15 06:36, schrieb Steve Litt:

Perhaps not in De**an, but in other distros, I've seen things go to
hell in a handbasket when trying to upgrade to the next major version.


I think here is a little bit confusion about what a "dist-upgrade" is 
and does.
It *can* be used for upgrade to a new major release, but in this case I 
also would prefer a clean new install. But with De**an stable this is 
only necessary every 2 years, not every 6 months as you stated.
A normal "upgrade" does not update packages with changed dependencies. 
It does not install new packages automatically. If an upgrade needs to 
install new packages because of changed dependencies, you have to use 
dist-upgrade, or rest with outdated packages. I never heard of a broken 
system when doing a dist-upgrade in the same stable release. "upgrade" 
is good for doing unattended upgrades, whereas "dist-upgrade" lets you 
view the changes and decide if you want install the new packages or keep 
the old package version.
A good example is the latest change from icedove to thunderbird. There 
is a valid reason to keep icedove, because thunderbird has some side 
effects on enigmail and iceowl, both are made for icedove. When 
upgrading to thunderbird, you have to remove enigmail and iceowl and 
install them from Mozillas addon repositories. Mozillas enigmail addon 
needs gnupg2 to be installed. So it's good to keep icedove until you are 
not in hurry and can make the necessary changes for thunderbird.


Jochen

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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 14 May 2017 20:39:25 +0100
KatolaZ  wrote:

> On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 11:49:14AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
> > 
> > No it doesn't. apt get dist-upgrade must pay attention to your
> > current config files, some of which might have been constructed
> > four major versions ago and have little current relevance. After
> > dist-upgrade, you're very likely to have ghosts of versions past.
> > That's why I clean install: I'm an elder in the Church of the Known
> > State. 
> 
> dpkg never removes modified config files automatically. 

Which is precisely my point. A lot of times, I want to get the config
files that go with the new software, and modify them if necessary
(usually not necessary, or a very minor mod on my part).

> If your
> current file is different from the one provided with the standard
> package, you are always asked what you want to do with it.
> 
> > Listen, if you want to use apt get dist upgrade, that's fine. You're
> > the kind of person that option was made for. But please don't
> > denegrate the positions of people who won't dist upgrade, and
> > please don't suggest (as someone else did earlier in this thread)
> > that dist upgrade should be considered due diligence before
> > submitting a bug. 
> 
> Joel suggested that "apt-get upgrade" (note the absence of "dist")
> would be advisable before submitting a bug for a distro that is
> undergoing some heavy change (as happened to jessie, and as usually
> happens for a testing branch), and that is actually a good suggestion,

You're right. He specified just "upgrade" except when using unstable,
in which case the whole "known state" thing is of secondary importance.
And I agree with both you and he that for stable and testing, apt-get
update and apt-get upgrade should be done before reporting a bug.

[snip]

> Nobody has denigrated anybody else :) 

The word "myth" was used. Sounds like denigration to me.

> Several people have simply
> reported that your fears might be somehow unjustified,

Or might not be unjustified.

>  but nobody has
> offended or insulted who does believe otherwise.

When a guy uses Emacs instead of Vim, I don't talk about the "myth"
that Emacs is better. I just mention I'm a Vim guy.

Perhaps not in De**an, but in other distros, I've seen things go to
hell in a handbasket when trying to upgrade to the next major version.
For that matter, I've seen things go to hell in a handbasket when I go
a couple years between reinstalls. Bit rot sets in to the point where
it's easier for me to lay down a clean new install than to hunt down
all the little wierdities that have accumulated over several
versions of config files. Perhaps others don't have these things happen
to them, but I do, so I reinstall. I don't tell others to follow in my
footsteps, but when the subject of apt-get dist-upgrade came up, I just
mentioned how I handle major versions.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
May 2017 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 11:49:14AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:

[cut]

> 
> No it doesn't. apt get dist-upgrade must pay attention to your current
> config files, some of which might have been constructed four major
> versions ago and have little current relevance. After dist-upgrade,
> you're very likely to have ghosts of versions past. That's why I clean
> install: I'm an elder in the Church of the Known State.
>

dpkg never removes modified config files automatically. If your
current file is different from the one provided with the standard
package, you are always asked what you want to do with it.

> Listen, if you want to use apt get dist upgrade, that's fine. You're
> the kind of person that option was made for. But please don't denegrate
> the positions of people who won't dist upgrade, and please don't
> suggest (as someone else did earlier in this thread) that dist upgrade
> should be considered due diligence before submitting a bug.
>  

Joel suggested that "apt-get upgrade" (note the absence of "dist")
would be advisable before submitting a bug for a distro that is
undergoing some heavy change (as happened to jessie, and as usually
happens for a testing branch), and that is actually a good suggestion,
since some of the bugs filed in the BTS in the last few weeks are
irrelevant to jessie RC (they were present only in jessie beta2, and
some of them only in jessie beta).

Nobody has denigrated anybody else :) Several people have simply
reported that your fears might be somehow unjustified, but nobody has
offended or insulted who does believe otherwise.

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Vernon Geiszler]

>
>
> --
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 10:10:19 -0400
> From: fsmithred <fsmith...@gmail.com>
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts
> Message-ID: <ea48b39e-7a32-e773-dad3-3a05090bc...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On 05/13/2017 11:03 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Sat, 13 May 2017 01:06:38 -1000
> > Joel Roth <jo...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Long before three weeks ago. I don't usually upgrade or
> >> dist-upgrade unless there is some particular need.
> >> Probably I'm not alone, even if that is not considered
> >> best practice.
> >
> > I never dist-upgrade. From what I hear, it breaks things. If I feel the
> > need to dist-upgrade, it's probably time to back up, reformat the
> > disks, and clean-install a later version.
> >
> > SteveT
> >
>
> I always do dist-upgrade on stable. The aptitude equivalent is
> full-upgrade. For curiosity, I just did 'apt-get upgrade' on an
> installation that hasn't been upgraded in a long time. Following that with
> 'apt-get dist-upgrade' shows me that I would have missed getting
> firefox-esr without dist-upgade.
>
> When I've compared upgrade to dist-upgrade (or aptitude safe-upgrade vs.
> full-upgrade) in the past, they are usually the same in the stable
> release. In Testing, it's good to do them separately to prevent breakage.
>
> fsmithred
>
>
>
>
> --

 I did not think to do a dist-upgrade after moving to ascii.  I just did
upgrade.

I just did a dist-upgrade and had more packages upgrade.  So,  thank you
for this thread.

Vernon
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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Florian Zieboll]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256


On Sun, 14 May 2017 11:49:14 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> This concern that you characterize as a "myth" is something I read in
> various apt package distro mailing lists on a somewhat regular basis.
> I also have one buddy from my LUG whose machine was borked immediately
> after doing a apt get dist upgrade.


Hallo Steve,

I suppose you are talking about trans-release dist-upgrades and not the
scarce but sometimes important upgrades that introduce new dependencies
within the lifetime of the installed release.

I run apt-get dist-upgrade on a regular basis (i.e. usually when my
upgrade script reports "not upgraded" packages) and can't remember to
have run into any problems. 

To not accidentally upgrade to a new release, I "pin" my systems by
using the release's codename (e.g. "jessie") in the sources.list
instead of "stable" or "testing".

Regarding the "cleanup" before upgrading to a new release (mentioned
in this thread), I use to do two things immediately after the initial
minimal install, which keep my systems slim and sleek and, by the way,
deprecate this additional step when I upgrade to a new release:

1) edit apt.conf to the following
   
   florian@nulldevice:~$ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/02norecommend 
   APT::Install-Recommends "0";
   APT::Install-Suggests "0";
   APT::AutoRemove::RecommendsImportant "1";
   APT::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant "1";

2) install and run debfoster

Then I repeat running debfoster carefully after every installation of a
meta-package, starting with the removal of the meta-package itself.

libre Grüße,

Florian


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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 14 May 2017 12:26:51 +0200
Joachim Fahrner  wrote:

> Am 2017-05-14 08:23, schrieb KatolaZ:
> > 
> > again, there is nothing to fear in dist-upgrade...  
> 
> That's right. I'm using Debian/Devuan since many years and never had
> a problem with dist-upgrade. I'm wondering about this myth that 
> dist-upgrade could break something. 

This concern that you characterize as a "myth" is something I read in
various apt package distro mailing lists on a somewhat regular basis. I
also have one buddy from my LUG whose machine was borked immediately
after doing a apt get dist upgrade.


> dist-upgrade has the same effect
> as if you would do a new install today. 

No it doesn't. apt get dist-upgrade must pay attention to your current
config files, some of which might have been constructed four major
versions ago and have little current relevance. After dist-upgrade,
you're very likely to have ghosts of versions past. That's why I clean
install: I'm an elder in the Church of the Known State.

Listen, if you want to use apt get dist upgrade, that's fine. You're
the kind of person that option was made for. But please don't denegrate
the positions of people who won't dist upgrade, and please don't
suggest (as someone else did earlier in this thread) that dist upgrade
should be considered due diligence before submitting a bug.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
May 2017 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Didier Kryn]

Le 14/05/2017 à 16:10, fsmithred a écrit :

On 05/13/2017 11:03 AM, Steve Litt wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2017 01:06:38 -1000
Joel Roth  wrote:


Long before three weeks ago. I don't usually upgrade or
dist-upgrade unless there is some particular need.
Probably I'm not alone, even if that is not considered
best practice.

I never dist-upgrade. From what I hear, it breaks things. If I feel the
need to dist-upgrade, it's probably time to back up, reformat the
disks, and clean-install a later version.
  
SteveT



I always do dist-upgrade on stable. The aptitude equivalent is
full-upgrade. For curiosity, I just did 'apt-get upgrade' on an
installation that hasn't been upgraded in a long time. Following that with
'apt-get dist-upgrade' shows me that I would have missed getting
firefox-esr without dist-upgade.

When I've compared upgrade to dist-upgrade (or aptitude safe-upgrade vs.
full-upgrade) in the past, they are usually the same in the stable
release. In Testing, it's good to do them separately to prevent breakage.


 I suppose this is the difference between "normal upgrade" and 
"smart upgrade" in Synaptic. 'smart' means it is allowed to install new 
packages to satisfy dependencies, like "dist-upgrade".


When you click upgrade-all in Synaptic, it will use the method you 
have selected as default (normal-upgrade, in my case), but if you 
explicitely ask to upgrade a package, then it performs a smart-upgrade 
but only to satisfy the dependencies of this very selected package.


I would be afraid to run a dist-upgrade on the whole distro every 
month or so.


Concerning your example, I retained Iceweasel for severall months 
because the only thing I expected from FF-ESR was more bloat. I 
eventually let it "upgrade"  to FF-ESR after a few months because it 
seemed to get into trouble.


Didier

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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[fsmithred]

On 05/13/2017 11:03 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Sat, 13 May 2017 01:06:38 -1000
> Joel Roth  wrote:
> 
>> Long before three weeks ago. I don't usually upgrade or
>> dist-upgrade unless there is some particular need. 
>> Probably I'm not alone, even if that is not considered
>> best practice.
> 
> I never dist-upgrade. From what I hear, it breaks things. If I feel the
> need to dist-upgrade, it's probably time to back up, reformat the
> disks, and clean-install a later version.
>  
> SteveT
> 

I always do dist-upgrade on stable. The aptitude equivalent is
full-upgrade. For curiosity, I just did 'apt-get upgrade' on an
installation that hasn't been upgraded in a long time. Following that with
'apt-get dist-upgrade' shows me that I would have missed getting
firefox-esr without dist-upgade.

When I've compared upgrade to dist-upgrade (or aptitude safe-upgrade vs.
full-upgrade) in the past, they are usually the same in the stable
release. In Testing, it's good to do them separately to prevent breakage.

fsmithred


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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Joel Roth]

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 02:23:50PM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote:
> >On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 08:08:51AM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote:
> >
> >[cut]
> >
> >> apt-get dist-upgrade is what's necessary to change release - as the 
> >> name
> >>means -, eg Wheezy to Jessie or Jessie to Ascii.
> >or if you are permanently on testing, since it is not uncommon
> >there for some upgrades to break/change/update dependencies. But
> >again, there is nothing to fear in dist-upgrade...
> >
> I used to live on testing a dozen years ago and never needed
> dist-upgrade for anything else than changing release. Maybe I missed
> something :-)

When I lived on unstable and got behind on new packages, I
learned (I think it was from Bob Proulx) that a two-step
process of apt-get upgrade, followed by apt-get dist-upgrade
was more likely to succeed than straight dist-upgrade.

Now I'm happy and thankful to be further away from the bleeding edge. 

cheers,

Joel

> Didier
> 
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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Joachim Fahrner]

Am 2017-05-14 08:23, schrieb KatolaZ:


again, there is nothing to fear in dist-upgrade...


That's right. I'm using Debian/Devuan since many years and never had a 
problem with dist-upgrade. I'm wondering about this myth that 
dist-upgrade could break something. dist-upgrade has the same effect as 
if you would do a new install today. Why should packages be broken just 
today? (assuming you are using stable).


Jochen
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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 08:08:51AM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote:

[cut]

> 
> apt-get dist-upgrade is what's necessary to change release - as the name
> means -, eg Wheezy to Jessie or Jessie to Ascii.

or if you are permanently on testing, since it is not uncommon
there for some upgrades to break/change/update dependencies. But
again, there is nothing to fear in dist-upgrade...

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Didier Kryn]

Le 13/05/2017 à 17:03, Steve Litt a écrit :

On Sat, 13 May 2017 01:06:38 -1000
Joel Roth  wrote:


Long before three weeks ago. I don't usually upgrade or
dist-upgrade unless there is some particular need.
Probably I'm not alone, even if that is not considered
best practice.

I never dist-upgrade. From what I hear, it breaks things. If I feel the
need to dist-upgrade, it's probably time to back up, reformat the
disks, and clean-install a later version.
  


apt-get dist-upgrade is what's necessary to change release - as the 
name means -, eg Wheezy to Jessie or Jessie to Ascii. This is why it 
should rarely be used, and only after carefully editing sources.list. 
It's a jump into the new. Dist-upgrade always worked fine for me and I 
consider this as one of the greatest achievements of Debian's package 
management technology.


I would recommend some clean-up before the jump. For example I 
would uninstall things like mysql server which doesn't recognize any 
priviledge to root. Also Debian tended to install a lot of packages the 
user doesn't want and even doesn't know, so better get them out before 
the dist-upgrade


For all the rest of the life of the release, upgrading is the job 
of apt-get upgrade / aptitude / synaptic. Don't use dist-upgrade for that.


I installed most Devuan Jessie machines I run currently by 
dist-upgrading from Wheezy. No issue.


For everyday I use Synaptic, or sometimes apt-get upgrade; I feel 
more on control with synaptic.


Didier



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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2017-05-13 17:03]:

> I never dist-upgrade. From what I hear, it breaks things. If I feel the
> need to dist-upgrade, it's probably time to back up, reformat the
> disks, and clean-install a later version.

If you can't dist-upgrade, it's probably time to find another distribution.
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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 07:36:32PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

> 
> ..I came in woody time from the cold dropped Red Hat 7.3, I've
> dist-upgraded from woody and sarge to sid/wheezy, and from lenny 
> to sid/Jessie.  Only reason I left SuSE-5.2 (It rocked!), was
> I didn't know how to do "insmod -v sb16" to get audio. ;o)

Th upgrade from Debian/wheezy to Devuan/jessie was the smoothest I've 
ever experienced.

Nonetheless, just in case, I started by making a copy of the entire 
wheezy system in separate partitions on the same hard drive and making 
sure the copy booted and ran properlym just in case sething would go 
wrong.  Nothing did -- this time.

I have had problems upgrading Debian in the past.  Being able to reboot 
to the old system was a godsend.

I don't remember all the reasons for failure in the past.  one of them 
was running out of space in the partition used for storing package 
files.

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sat, 13 May 2017 16:16:48 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message 
<20170513151648.gf14...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:

> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 11:03:18AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Sat, 13 May 2017 01:06:38 -1000
> > Joel Roth  wrote:
> > 
> > > Long before three weeks ago. I don't usually upgrade or
> > > dist-upgrade unless there is some particular need. 
> > > Probably I'm not alone, even if that is not considered
> > > best practice.
> > 
> > I never dist-upgrade. From what I hear, it breaks things. If I feel
> > the need to dist-upgrade, it's probably time to back up, reformat
> > the disks, and clean-install a later version.
> >  
> 
> Just to avoid confusion, in this specific case there was no need at
> all to dist-upgrade. A simple apt-get upgrade would have pulled the
> correct version of reportbug.
> 
> And since it has been mentioned, dist-upgrade does not break anything,
> if done correctly. I had a desktop which went from etch to wheezy,
> without a single reinstall, and several other machines which saw at
> least three different releases, again without a single reinstall. This
> is what people mean when they say that De??an is "rock-solid",
> "reliable", and "durable".
> 
> HND
> 
> KatolaZ
> 

..I came in woody time from the cold dropped Red Hat 7.3, I've
dist-upgraded from woody and sarge to sid/wheezy, and from lenny 
to sid/Jessie.  Only reason I left SuSE-5.2 (It rocked!), was
I didn't know how to do "insmod -v sb16" to get audio. ;o)

..I've only had 2 things break, hardware and pöttercode, first 
pulseaudio and then systemd, but the biggest problem for me was 
DD's abandoning their packages on leaving Debian, months before 
I even realised I had a systemd problem.


-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 11:03:18AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Sat, 13 May 2017 01:06:38 -1000
> Joel Roth  wrote:
> 
> > Long before three weeks ago. I don't usually upgrade or
> > dist-upgrade unless there is some particular need. 
> > Probably I'm not alone, even if that is not considered
> > best practice.
> 
> I never dist-upgrade. From what I hear, it breaks things. If I feel the
> need to dist-upgrade, it's probably time to back up, reformat the
> disks, and clean-install a later version.
>  

Just to avoid confusion, in this specific case there was no need at
all to dist-upgrade. A simple apt-get upgrade would have pulled the
correct version of reportbug.

And since it has been mentioned, dist-upgrade does not break anything,
if done correctly. I had a desktop which went from etch to wheezy,
without a single reinstall, and several other machines which saw at
least three different releases, again without a single reinstall. This
is what people mean when they say that De??an is "rock-solid",
"reliable", and "durable".

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 13 May 2017 01:06:38 -1000
Joel Roth  wrote:

> Long before three weeks ago. I don't usually upgrade or
> dist-upgrade unless there is some particular need. 
> Probably I'm not alone, even if that is not considered
> best practice.

I never dist-upgrade. From what I hear, it breaks things. If I feel the
need to dist-upgrade, it's probably time to back up, reformat the
disks, and clean-install a later version.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
May 2017 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 01:06:38AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:

[cut]

> > Hi Joel,
> > 
> > that's strange again. Do you remember when you dist-upgraded?
> > reportbug-6.6.3+devuan1.3 has been in the repos since about three
> > weeks ago...
> 
> Long before three weeks ago. I don't usually upgrade or
> dist-upgrade unless there is some particular need. 
> Probably I'm not alone, even if that is not considered
> best practice.
> 

You are definitely not alone (I rarely use apt-get upgrade), but since
jessie has undergone some small improvements since beta2, I was forced
to upgrade more often than I was used to. I guess you will get the new
reportbug with a simple apt-get upgrade, and I guess you have already
done so.

Thanks anyway for your kind report, and for taking the time to report
bugs: it is very much appreciated ;)

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Joel Roth]

KatolaZ wrote:
> On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 11:11:06PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
[cut]
> > Somehow my upgrade to Devuan somehow missed getting reportbug.
> > 
> > $ dpkg -l reportbug
> > 
> > Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
> > | 
> > Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
> > |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
> > ||/ Name   Version  Architecture Description
> > +++-==---===
> > ii  reportbug  6.6.3all  reports bugs in the Debian 
> > distribution
 
> Hi Joel,
> 
> that's strange again. Do you remember when you dist-upgraded?
> reportbug-6.6.3+devuan1.3 has been in the repos since about three
> weeks ago...

Long before three weeks ago. I don't usually upgrade or
dist-upgrade unless there is some particular need. 
Probably I'm not alone, even if that is not considered
best practice.

Maybe reportbug should prompt the user to apt-get upgrade 
and then apt-get dist-upgrade before filing a report.

I didn't even think of it, although I should have.


> PLMK
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
> -- 
> [ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
> [ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
> [   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
> [ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
> [ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]



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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 11:11:06PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:

[cut]


> 
> Hi KatolaZ,
> 
> Somehow my upgrade to Devuan somehow missed getting reportbug.
> 
> $ dpkg -l reportbug
> 
> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
> | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
> |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
> ||/ Name   Version  Architecture Description
> +++-==---===
> ii  reportbug  6.6.3all  reports bugs in the Debian 
> distribution
> 

Hi Joel,

that's strange again. Do you remember when you dist-upgraded?
reportbug-6.6.3+devuan1.3 has been in the repos since about three
weeks ago...

PLMK

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Joel Roth]

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 05:54:13AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 03:41:23PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
> > 
> > When I ran reportbug and filed a bug, I was surprised to 
> > see the report went to Debian. 
> > 
> > /etc/reportbug.conf (which I've never edited)
> > has no bts setting.
> > 
> > $ reportbug --bts help
> > 
> > Valid bug tracking systems:
> >  default
> >  devuan
> >  guug
> >  debian
> >  ubuntu
> > 
> > What is the relation between Devuan and Debian bug
> > reporting? Is Debian willing to accept bugs filed
> > from derivatives/forks such as Devuan?
> > 
> > Should Devuan rewrite /etc/reportbug.conf to default
> > to Devuan?
> >
> 
> 
> Hi Joel,
> 
> that's pretty strange, since the default BTS in our reportbug (version
> 6.6.3+devuan1.3) is already set to bugs.devuan.org. You might probably
> have a $HOME/.reportbugrc file which instructed reportbug
> otherwise. Could you please double-check?

Hi KatolaZ,

Somehow my upgrade to Devuan somehow missed getting reportbug.

$ dpkg -l reportbug

Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name   Version  Architecture Description
+++-==---===
ii  reportbug  6.6.3all  reports bugs in the Debian 
distribution

$ cat /etc/os-release

PRETTY_NAME="Devuan GNU/Linux 1 (jessie)"
NAME="Devuan GNU/Linux"
VERSION_ID="1"
VERSION="1 (jessie)"
ID=devuan
HOME_URL="http://www.devuan.org/;
SUPPORT_URL="http://www.devuan.org/support/;
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.devuan.org/;

$ cat ~/.reportbugrc | grep -vP ^#

reportbug_version "2.58"
mode standard
ui text

$ cat /etc/reportbug.conf | grep -vP ^# | perl -ne 'print unless /^\s*$/'

submit
query-bts
cc
config-files
compress
verify

> TIA
 
Thank _you_  !

Joel

> KatolaZ
> 
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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 03:41:23PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:

[cut]

> 
> When I ran reportbug and filed a bug, I was surprised to 
> see the report went to Debian. 
> 
> /etc/reportbug.conf (which I've never edited)
> has no bts setting.
> 
> $ reportbug --bts help
> 
> Valid bug tracking systems:
>  default
>  devuan
>  guug
>  debian
>  ubuntu
> 
> What is the relation between Devuan and Debian bug
> reporting? Is Debian willing to accept bugs filed
> from derivatives/forks such as Devuan?
> 
> Should Devuan rewrite /etc/reportbug.conf to default
> to Devuan?
>


Hi Joel,

that's pretty strange, since the default BTS in our reportbug (version
6.6.3+devuan1.3) is already set to bugs.devuan.org. You might probably
have a $HOME/.reportbugrc file which instructed reportbug
otherwise. Could you please double-check?

TIA

KatolaZ

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[DNG] reportbug default bts

[Joel Roth]

Hi,

I'm running Devuan/Jessie, having migrated from
Debian/Jessie.

Being advised to file bugs at bugs.devuan.org, I viewed the 
site, which recommends using reportbug as the preferred 
way to report bugs.

When I ran reportbug and filed a bug, I was surprised to 
see the report went to Debian. 

/etc/reportbug.conf (which I've never edited)
has no bts setting.

$ reportbug --bts help

Valid bug tracking systems:
 default
 devuan
 guug
 debian
 ubuntu

What is the relation between Devuan and Debian bug
reporting? Is Debian willing to accept bugs filed
from derivatives/forks such as Devuan?

Should Devuan rewrite /etc/reportbug.conf to default
to Devuan?

I would file a bug, but since this bug is about bug
reporting, it seems reasonable to post to the general list.

greetings,


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