Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Ralph Ronnquist via Dng]

On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 18:30:25 +0100
Antoine via Dng  wrote:

> On Tuesday,  4 January at 14:24, Bob Proulx via Dng wrote:
> > (...)
> >Portable shell use would be "whatever() {" which I wish to encourage
> >by saying that here.  Please use only that form for /bin/sh scripts.
> >:-)
> >
> >The "function" keyword was introduced by ksh.  This syntax is also
> >supported by bash and zsh but not by other shells.  When "function"
> >is used then the #! line must be /bin/ksh, /bin/bash, or /bin/zsh.  
> 
> Well, learn something new every day...
> Thank you for that little nugget.

Agree.

You need to add a second line "alias function=''" in the scripts to
enjoy the "function foo()" syntax also with /bin/sh and /bin/dash 

Ralph.
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Antoine via Dng]

On Tuesday,  4 January at 14:24, Bob Proulx via Dng wrote:

(...)
Portable shell use would be "whatever() {" which I wish to encourage
by saying that here.  Please use only that form for /bin/sh scripts. :-)

The "function" keyword was introduced by ksh.  This syntax is also
supported by bash and zsh but not by other shells.  When "function" is
used then the #! line must be /bin/ksh, /bin/bash, or /bin/zsh.


Well, learn something new every day...
Thank you for that little nugget.

- Antoine

--
Build a system that even a fool could use,
and only a fool will want to use it.
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Bob Proulx via Dng]

Antoine via Dng wrote:
> Steve Litt wrote:
> > With my /bin/sh (which I believe is dash) I had to change:
> > 
> > function whatever {
> > 
> > to
> > 
> > whatever() {
> > 
> > on all three function declarations.
> 
> Yes, now that you mention it, that tends to vary between shells. I should
> have included them.

Portable shell use would be "whatever() {" which I wish to encourage
by saying that here.  Please use only that form for /bin/sh scripts. :-)

The "function" keyword was introduced by ksh.  This syntax is also
supported by bash and zsh but not by other shells.  When "function" is
used then the #! line must be /bin/ksh, /bin/bash, or /bin/zsh.

The ksh book refers to the other format as compatible "with recent
versions of the Bourne shell" (which I find funny now) because as we
know the original Bourne shell did not support functions at all.  The
book also reminds us that "{" and "}" are reserved words.  Meaning
that they must be separated from other tokens by whitespace in order
to be recognized.  They form a shell compound-list of commands.

Bob


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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Antoine via Dng]

On Wednesday, 22 December at 07:08, Steve Litt wrote:

(...)
PDC (Pretty Darn Cool)!


Thank you!



With my /bin/sh (which I believe is dash) I had to change:

function whatever {

to

whatever() {

on all three function declarations.


Yes, now that you mention it, that tends to vary between shells. I should 
have included them.




In the rest of this email, I'm referring to your program as jacketc to
save myself some keystrokes.

On my computer, Xterm normally has a nice 14 point font that I set in
.Xdefaults. But in jacketc, the fact that you give it a name
(jackinthebox) makes the font go to about 5 point, which is totally
useless for my eyes. Do I need to make some special adjustment in
.Xdefaults?


I don't know much about .Xdefaults (mine just has some yeahconsole 
leftovers), but xterm should have a parameter to define the font (and its 
size), maybe something like -fc?


As a temporary workaround, you can ctrl-rightclick anywhere in the window to 
get a menu, allowing you to change the font size.




I'm used to these kinds of terminals not having window decorations. Any
way to accomplish that?


That would depend on your window manager. I use Fluxbox, so I have the 
following lines in $HOME/.fluxbox/apps:


[app] (name=jackinthebox) {1}
  [Deco] {NONE}
[end]

YWMMV [ Your Window Manager May Vary :^D ]



On my machine, jacketc doesn't shift focus to the newly appeared
window. Is there a reason why not?


Huh, that's odd. The "windowfocus" command should do that, with "windowraise" 
thrown in for good measure.


YWMMV, again?



In any window manager enabling you to execute arbitrary commands with a
keystroke, you can just set that keystroke to run jacketc.


Sounds convenient if you have one of those window managers :^)



Thanks for introducing me to xdotool. I'll be using that a lot from now
on. Just another reason I'm going to wait as long as possible to switch
to Wayland.

I do have one criticism of jacketc: Lennart Poettering wouldn't approve
of it.


It's probably best if I not voice my opinion on the subject (not, I suspect, 
that many here would disagree with me).




:-)

SteveT


Sorry for not answering earlier (holidays and all that, y'know). In any case, 
thank you for your feedback; always appreciated.


- Antoine

--
To ask is allowed. To answer is a courtesy.
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng]

Hi,

wirelessduck--- via Dng writes:

>> On 21 Dec 2021, at 07:37, Steve Litt  wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> I use Openbox and have no problems, ever. When I take it on the road
>> and want a complete setup with panel, I use LXDE, which is a panel and
>> various programs to run with Openbox. If LXDE isn't available, LXQt is
>> almost as good. I have info on how to set it up at:
>>
>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/quickhacks.htm#startxlxqt
>>
>> Other outstanding WMDEs include fvwm, IceWM, Windowmaker, jwm, i9, and
>> a host of others. From my perspective, there's absolutely no reason to
>> use xfce.
>>
>> SteveT
>
> I followed your guide for openbox and it’s quite nice, combined with
> tilda for console and tint2 for panel. Adding the 6 pixel left margin
> is a nice hack to always have access to the openbox menu even with
> full screen applications!
>
> Do you have any suggestions on a replacement for xfce4-appfinder that
> can search through .desktop files as well as $PATH? The nice thing
> about xfce4-appfinder is the two separate interfaces for searching
> .desktop (alt+F3) and $PATH (alt+F2).

Haven't looked at it myself, yet, but dex might be of help.  I just saw
it getting added as a dependency to i3-wm on daedalus.

Hope this helps,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13  F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate
 Join the Free Software Foundation  https://my.fsf.org/join
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Syeed Ali]

On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 07:08:38 -0500
Steve Litt  wrote:

> I'm used to these kinds of terminals not having window decorations.
> Any way to accomplish that?

I haven't tried Antoine's work, but Openbox's rc.xml has functionality
to do that sort of thing.


I've tinkered with wmctrl

https://sites.google.com/site/tstyblo/wmctrl

It's apparently not updated.  I haven't had a chance to try Devil's Pie

http://www.burtonini.com/blog/tag/devilspie.html

There are some other options that I haven't played with.
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Steve Litt]

Antoine via Dng said on Wed, 22 Dec 2021 00:01:04 +0100

>On Tuesday, 21 December at 20:03, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote:
>>(...)>  
>>Still haven't made up my mind about a command-line terminal.  Have
>>been using guake for a long time, looked at tilda for a bit but for
>>the time being use rxvt-unicode on my i3-wm systems.  Note, support
>>for Japanese is a must for me, output as well as input, not just on
>>the command-line but the "desktop" in general.  
>
>I've tried several dropdown terminals over the years, and every one of
>them eventually stopped working in some creative way, so I wrote my
>own. As it turns out, a simple and functional version can be done with
>a few lines of shellscript, $PREFERRED_XTERMINAL, xdotool and sxhkd
>(and a little tweaking from your window manager if you feel like it).
>I'm attaching it in case anyone wants to take a look (it really is 
>suprisingly simple).

PDC (Pretty Darn Cool)!

With my /bin/sh (which I believe is dash) I had to change:

function whatever {

to

whatever() {

on all three function declarations.

In the rest of this email, I'm referring to your program as jacketc to
save myself some keystrokes.

On my computer, Xterm normally has a nice 14 point font that I set in
.Xdefaults. But in jacketc, the fact that you give it a name
(jackinthebox) makes the font go to about 5 point, which is totally
useless for my eyes. Do I need to make some special adjustment in
.Xdefaults?

I'm used to these kinds of terminals not having window decorations. Any
way to accomplish that?

On my machine, jacketc doesn't shift focus to the newly appeared
window. Is there a reason why not?

In any window manager enabling you to execute arbitrary commands with a
keystroke, you can just set that keystroke to run jacketc.

Thanks for introducing me to xdotool. I'll be using that a lot from now
on. Just another reason I'm going to wait as long as possible to switch
to Wayland.

I do have one criticism of jacketc: Lennart Poettering wouldn't approve
of it.

:-)

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Steve Litt [22/12/2021 12.15]:


The easy suggestion is you can install xfce to get its apps, including
the pretty nice xfce4-terminal

  ^^^
and extremely slow
--
Hilsen Harald
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Steve Litt]

Olaf Meeuwissen said on Tue, 21 Dec 2021 20:03:52 +0900


>Haven't heard of i9, can't find any info about it either.  You sure you
>don't mean i3?

Yes, I meant i3. I guess I was writing with too much power. :-)

>
>Actually, I am looking at ditching Xfce4.  Too much stuff I don't use
>anyway.  After looking at the boatload of window manager packages that
>come with Devuan, I am now experimenting with i3-wm on two machines
>(one at the office, one at home) but my mainstay is still Xfce4.
>
>Still haven't made up my mind about a command-line terminal.  Have been
>using guake for a long time, looked at tilda for a bit but for the time
>being use rxvt-unicode on my i3-wm systems.  Note, support for Japanese
>is a must for me, output as well as input, not just on the command-line
>but the "desktop" in general.

I've used both guake and tilda and liked them both. I've used an rxvt
terminal and liked it, but don't remember if it was unicode or not.
Sakura is a pretty cool terminal. The way I see it, you can never
install too many terminal emulators, because you can use each for
specific things.

SteveT

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Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Steve Litt]

wirelessduck--- via Dng said on Tue, 21 Dec 2021 18:30:04 +1100

>> On 21 Dec 2021, at 07:37, Steve Litt 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng said on Mon, 20 Dec 2021 18:49:59 +0900
>> 
>> 
>>   
>>> 
>>> ACK.  I really wish the xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin dependency were
>>> downgraded to a Recommends:.  Note to self, submit a bugreport!
>>> 
>>> # Don't mind if someone else beats me to it.  If so, submit to
>>> Debian # BTS cuz this ain't no Devuan bug.
>>> 
>>> While I agree that marking all dependencies of xfce4 is a PITA, the
>>> list is not all that long.  Even if it were
>>> 
>>> sudo apt-mark manual \
>>>  $(dpkg-query -W -f '${Depends}\n' xfce4
>>>   | sed 's/([^)]*)//g; s/,//g')
>>> 
>>> should do the trick.
>>> 
>>> Warning: Check the output of the command in $() before feeding it to
>>>   apt-mark.  If there's any `|` in there, DON'T feed it to apt-mark.
>>> 
>>> After that you can, in theory,
>>> 
>>> apt purge xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
>>> 
>>> without losing your xfce4 dependencies.
>>> 
>>> URK!  Dogfooding this, I am told that another 150+ are going to be
>>> purged, most likely because of task-desktop and task-xfce-desktop
>>> being automatically installed.
>>> 
>>> Hmm, doesn't look as easy as I first thought.  
>> 
>> About the only positive thing I can say about xfce is it's better
>> than Gnome, KDE and the now defunct Unity. Except compared to those,
>> it's not particularly lightweight, and my experience is it's been
>> quirky on Linux (but not OpenBSD) for the past decade, at least.
>> There are so many great WMDEs (Window Manager/Desktop Environment)
>> that it's a shame to use xfce.
>> 
>> I use Openbox and have no problems, ever. When I take it on the road
>> and want a complete setup with panel, I use LXDE, which is a panel
>> and various programs to run with Openbox. If LXDE isn't available,
>> LXQt is almost as good. I have info on how to set it up at:
>> 
>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/quickhacks.htm#startxlxqt
>> 
>> Other outstanding WMDEs include fvwm, IceWM, Windowmaker, jwm, i9,
>> and a host of others. From my perspective, there's absolutely no
>> reason to use xfce.
>> 
>> SteveT  
>
>I followed your guide for openbox and it’s quite nice, combined with
>tilda for console and tint2 for panel. Adding the 6 pixel left margin
>is a nice hack to always have access to the openbox menu even with
>full screen applications!
>
>Do you have any suggestions on a replacement for xfce4-appfinder that
>can search through .desktop files as well as $PATH? The nice thing
>about xfce4-appfinder is the two separate interfaces for searching
>.desktop (alt+F3) and $PATH (alt+F2).

The easy suggestion is you can install xfce to get its apps, including
the pretty nice xfce4-terminal and the handy xfce4-appfinder, but not
use it as your WMDE.

A second suggestion is that I think I remember xfce4-appfinder, and if
it's what I remember it to be, a properly configured dmenu is much
quicker and handier. To see how to do this (and it's easy), see
http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/dmenu/bestpractices.htm , and pay
particular attention to the "Dmenu as a Program Runner" section.

As far as the .desktop files, there's no need to run them unless you
need to call your program with special arguments, etc. If so, you can
make shellscripts to do it. I'm really not familiar with .desktop files
except for in win98.

SteveT

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Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Antoine via Dng]

On Tuesday, 21 December at 20:03, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote:

(...)>
Still haven't made up my mind about a command-line terminal.  Have been
using guake for a long time, looked at tilda for a bit but for the time
being use rxvt-unicode on my i3-wm systems.  Note, support for Japanese
is a must for me, output as well as input, not just on the command-line
but the "desktop" in general.


I've tried several dropdown terminals over the years, and every one of them 
eventually stopped working in some creative way, so I wrote my own. As it 
turns out, a simple and functional version can be done with a few lines of 
shellscript, $PREFERRED_XTERMINAL, xdotool and sxhkd (and a little tweaking 
from your window manager if you feel like it).
I'm attaching it in case anyone wants to take a look (it really is 
suprisingly simple).


- Antoine

--
No one remembers the singer. The song remains.


jack_in_the_box.sh
Description: Bourne shell script
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng]

Hi Steve,

Steve Litt writes:

> Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng said on Mon, 20 Dec 2021 18:49:59 +0900
>
>> [stuff about trying to get rid of *pulse packages on an Xfce4 system]
>
> About the only positive thing I can say about xfce is it's better than
> Gnome, KDE and the now defunct Unity. Except compared to those, it's
> not particularly lightweight, and my experience is it's been quirky on
> Linux (but not OpenBSD) for the past decade, at least. There are so
> many great WMDEs (Window Manager/Desktop Environment) that it's a shame
> to use xfce.

So shame on me then.  You are entitled to your opinion, so is everyone
else.  I used to use Gnome, noticed it started to bloat, changed to KDE,
noticed that started to bloat too and switched to Xfce.  That was over
a decade ago (maybe 15 years or so?) and I haven't really had an issues
with Xfce on Debian first and Devuan later.

# Before Gnome I used something else but don't remember what.  Must have
# been one of the X11 window managers with a hand crafted .xsessionrc or
# .xinitrc.  Whatever worked way back then.

> [Openbox and LXDE plug snipped]
>
> Other outstanding WMDEs include fvwm, IceWM, Windowmaker, jwm, i9, and
> a host of others. From my perspective, there's absolutely no reason to
> use xfce.

Haven't heard of i9, can't find any info about it either.  You sure you
don't mean i3?

Actually, I am looking at ditching Xfce4.  Too much stuff I don't use
anyway.  After looking at the boatload of window manager packages that
come with Devuan, I am now experimenting with i3-wm on two machines (one
at the office, one at home) but my mainstay is still Xfce4.

Still haven't made up my mind about a command-line terminal.  Have been
using guake for a long time, looked at tilda for a bit but for the time
being use rxvt-unicode on my i3-wm systems.  Note, support for Japanese
is a must for me, output as well as input, not just on the command-line
but the "desktop" in general.

Hope this helps,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13  F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate
 Join the Free Software Foundation  https://my.fsf.org/join
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[wirelessduck--- via Dng]

> On 21 Dec 2021, at 07:37, Steve Litt  wrote:
> 
> Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng said on Mon, 20 Dec 2021 18:49:59 +0900
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> ACK.  I really wish the xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin dependency were
>> downgraded to a Recommends:.  Note to self, submit a bugreport!
>> 
>> # Don't mind if someone else beats me to it.  If so, submit to Debian
>> # BTS cuz this ain't no Devuan bug.
>> 
>> While I agree that marking all dependencies of xfce4 is a PITA, the
>> list is not all that long.  Even if it were
>> 
>> sudo apt-mark manual \
>>  $(dpkg-query -W -f '${Depends}\n' xfce4
>>   | sed 's/([^)]*)//g; s/,//g')
>> 
>> should do the trick.
>> 
>> Warning: Check the output of the command in $() before feeding it to
>>   apt-mark.  If there's any `|` in there, DON'T feed it to apt-mark.
>> 
>> After that you can, in theory,
>> 
>> apt purge xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
>> 
>> without losing your xfce4 dependencies.
>> 
>> URK!  Dogfooding this, I am told that another 150+ are going to be
>> purged, most likely because of task-desktop and task-xfce-desktop being
>> automatically installed.
>> 
>> Hmm, doesn't look as easy as I first thought.
> 
> About the only positive thing I can say about xfce is it's better than
> Gnome, KDE and the now defunct Unity. Except compared to those, it's
> not particularly lightweight, and my experience is it's been quirky on
> Linux (but not OpenBSD) for the past decade, at least. There are so
> many great WMDEs (Window Manager/Desktop Environment) that it's a shame
> to use xfce.
> 
> I use Openbox and have no problems, ever. When I take it on the road
> and want a complete setup with panel, I use LXDE, which is a panel and
> various programs to run with Openbox. If LXDE isn't available, LXQt is
> almost as good. I have info on how to set it up at:
> 
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/quickhacks.htm#startxlxqt
> 
> Other outstanding WMDEs include fvwm, IceWM, Windowmaker, jwm, i9, and
> a host of others. From my perspective, there's absolutely no reason to
> use xfce.
> 
> SteveT

I followed your guide for openbox and it’s quite nice, combined with tilda for 
console and tint2 for panel. Adding the 6 pixel left margin is a nice hack to 
always have access to the openbox menu even with full screen applications!

Do you have any suggestions on a replacement for xfce4-appfinder that can 
search through .desktop files as well as $PATH? The nice thing about 
xfce4-appfinder is the two separate interfaces for searching .desktop (alt+F3) 
and $PATH (alt+F2).
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Steve Litt]

Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng said on Mon, 20 Dec 2021 18:49:59 +0900



>
>ACK.  I really wish the xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin dependency were
>downgraded to a Recommends:.  Note to self, submit a bugreport!
>
># Don't mind if someone else beats me to it.  If so, submit to Debian
># BTS cuz this ain't no Devuan bug.
>
>While I agree that marking all dependencies of xfce4 is a PITA, the
>list is not all that long.  Even if it were
>
> sudo apt-mark manual \
>   $(dpkg-query -W -f '${Depends}\n' xfce4
>| sed 's/([^)]*)//g; s/,//g')
>
>should do the trick.
>
>  Warning: Check the output of the command in $() before feeding it to
>apt-mark.  If there's any `|` in there, DON'T feed it to apt-mark.
>
>After that you can, in theory,
>
>  apt purge xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
>
>without losing your xfce4 dependencies.
>
>URK!  Dogfooding this, I am told that another 150+ are going to be
>purged, most likely because of task-desktop and task-xfce-desktop being
>automatically installed.
>
>Hmm, doesn't look as easy as I first thought.

About the only positive thing I can say about xfce is it's better than
Gnome, KDE and the now defunct Unity. Except compared to those, it's
not particularly lightweight, and my experience is it's been quirky on
Linux (but not OpenBSD) for the past decade, at least. There are so
many great WMDEs (Window Manager/Desktop Environment) that it's a shame
to use xfce.

I use Openbox and have no problems, ever. When I take it on the road
and want a complete setup with panel, I use LXDE, which is a panel and
various programs to run with Openbox. If LXDE isn't available, LXQt is
almost as good. I have info on how to set it up at:

http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/quickhacks.htm#startxlxqt

Other outstanding WMDEs include fvwm, IceWM, Windowmaker, jwm, i9, and
a host of others. From my perspective, there's absolutely no reason to
use xfce.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng]

Hi Didier,

Didier Kryn writes:

> Le 18/12/2021 à 14:55, Antony Stone a écrit:
>> On Saturday 18 December 2021 at 14:43:30, Didier Kryn wrote:
>>
>>> Aptitude why libpulse0 only lists xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin, but it
>>> misses a lot, including indirectly xfce4.
>> Yes, this is in my opinion one of the shortcomings of "aptitude why" - it 
>> only
>> goes "one level up", whereas I would like it to follow each dependency until
>> it finds something that was installed manually, or is a system-essential
>> component.
>>
>> So, you did "aptitude why libpulse0" and it said "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin".
>>
>> However, was that:
>>  "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Depends libpulse0" or
>>  "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Recommends libpulse0" or
>>  "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Suggests libpulse0" ?
>  depends. This is obvious. the plugin needs at least to determine if
> PA is installed. libpulse0 plays the same role as libsystemd0. And
> package xfce4 is probably a virtual package which has no content but
> only dependencies, one of them being xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin. The
> problem is when you remove xfce4, all the useful stuff of xfce4 which
> were installed automatically become "removable" and you need to turn
> them one by one to "manually installed" to secure them.

ACK.  I really wish the xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin dependency were
downgraded to a Recommends:.  Note to self, submit a bugreport!

# Don't mind if someone else beats me to it.  If so, submit to Debian
# BTS cuz this ain't no Devuan bug.

While I agree that marking all dependencies of xfce4 is a PITA, the list
is not all that long.  Even if it were

 sudo apt-mark manual \
   $(dpkg-query -W -f '${Depends}\n' xfce4
| sed 's/([^)]*)//g; s/,//g')

should do the trick.

  Warning: Check the output of the command in $() before feeding it to
apt-mark.  If there's any `|` in there, DON'T feed it to apt-mark.

After that you can, in theory,

  apt purge xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin

without losing your xfce4 dependencies.

URK!  Dogfooding this, I am told that another 150+ are going to be
purged, most likely because of task-desktop and task-xfce-desktop being
automatically installed.

Hmm, doesn't look as easy as I first thought.

Oh well, perhaps this helped.  If not, too bad.
--
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng]

Hi Didier,

Didier Kryn writes:

> Le 18/12/2021 à 15:22, Florian Zieboll via Dng a écrit:
>> On December 18, 2021 2:43:30 PM GMT+01:00, Didier Kryn  wrote:
>>
>>> apt-get remove --purge libpulse0 wants to remove the following (which
>>> includes gimp):
>>>
>>> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>>>  atril* audacious* audacious-plugins* blueman* ffmpeg* font-manager*
>>> geeqie*
>>>  gimp* gstreamer1.0-libav* gstreamer1.0-plugins-good* libasound2-plugins*
>>>  libatrilview3* libavdevice58* libavfilter7* libffmpegthumbnailer4v5*
>>>  libfluidsynth2* libgegl-0.4-0* libgimp2.0* libopenscenegraph161*
>>>  libpocketsphinx3* libpulse-mainloop-glib0* libpulse0* libqt5multimedia5*
>>>  libsdl-image1.2* libsdl1.2debian* libsdl2-2.0-0* libsphinxbase3*
>>>  libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37* libyelp0* metacity* metacity-themes* pavucontrol*
>>>  qemu-system-gui* scribus* surf* vlc* vlc-plugin-base* xfce4*
>>>  xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin* yelp* zenity*
>>> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 41 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
>>
>> Hallo Didier,
>>
>> do you perhaps have something like an auto-'autoclean' policy defined in 
>> your apt configuration?
>>
>> Libre Grüsse,
>> Florian
>>
> (sda5)root@apcnb98:/etc/apt/apt.conf.d# grep auto- *
> 01autoremove-kernels:// DO NOT EDIT! File autogenerated by
> /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal

Wrong grep pattern :-/
Try

  apt-config dump | grep -i APT::AutoRemove::

For one of my machines that gives

  $ apt-config dump | grep -i APT::AutoRemove::
  APT::AutoRemove::RecommendsImportant "true";
  APT::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant "true";

meaning that automatically installed packages that have only a Suggests:
or Recommends: dependency left, i.e. no Depends: or Pre-Depends:, will
be removed.  Looks like you have something similar in which cause you
should probably run

  apt-mark manual 

with a list of  you definitely want to keep.

Hope this helps,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13  F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Marc Shapiro via Dng]

On 12/17/21 14:29, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 17/12/2021 à 20:32, Marc Shapiro via Dng a écrit :

On 12/16/21 04:44, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 16/12/2021 à 07:08, Marc Shapiro via Dng a écrit :

I don't think I'm up for compiling firefox from source.  And it would
have to be recompiled every time mozilla releases a new version.


  Why do you need to track the very last version from Mozilla? The
package provided in Devuan Chimaera just works with Alsa out of the box.

Not here.  I just uninstalled pulseaudio, again, and ran Firefox ESR
(78.15.0esr 64-bit) and got complete silence.  Xine, however, was
working this time.

     Firefox isn't my daily browser but I have it installed. I'm running
the same version of Firefox as you, on the same arch and the same distro
and it plays sound without pulseaudio. There must be something wrong in
your config.

Certainly possible, but I don't know what.

Have you Alsa installed?

Yes

And QuasMixer?


No


Is it the version of Firefox provided by the Devuan package or did you compile 
it yourself?

from Devuan


     -- Didier


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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Didier Kryn]

Le 18/12/2021 à 15:22, Florian Zieboll via Dng a écrit :
> On December 18, 2021 2:43:30 PM GMT+01:00, Didier Kryn  wrote:
>
>> apt-get remove --purge libpulse0 wants to remove the following (which
>> includes gimp):
>>
>> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>>   atril* audacious* audacious-plugins* blueman* ffmpeg* font-manager*
>> geeqie*
>>   gimp* gstreamer1.0-libav* gstreamer1.0-plugins-good* libasound2-plugins*
>>   libatrilview3* libavdevice58* libavfilter7* libffmpegthumbnailer4v5*
>>   libfluidsynth2* libgegl-0.4-0* libgimp2.0* libopenscenegraph161*
>>   libpocketsphinx3* libpulse-mainloop-glib0* libpulse0* libqt5multimedia5*
>>   libsdl-image1.2* libsdl1.2debian* libsdl2-2.0-0* libsphinxbase3*
>>   libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37* libyelp0* metacity* metacity-themes* pavucontrol*
>>   qemu-system-gui* scribus* surf* vlc* vlc-plugin-base* xfce4*
>>   xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin* yelp* zenity*
>> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 41 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
>
> Hallo Didier,
>
> do you perhaps have something like an auto-'autoclean' policy defined in your 
> apt configuration?
>
> Libre Grüsse,
> Florian
>
(sda5)root@apcnb98:/etc/apt/apt.conf.d# grep auto- *
01autoremove-kernels:// DO NOT EDIT! File autogenerated by
/etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal




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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Antony Stone]

On Saturday 18 December 2021 at 16:32:48, Didier Kryn wrote:

> Le 18/12/2021 à 14:55, Antony Stone a écrit :
> > 
> > So, you did "aptitude why libpulse0" and it said
> > "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin".
> > 
> > However, was that:
> > "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Depends libpulse0" or
> > "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Recommends libpulse0" or
> > "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Suggests libpulse0" ?
> 
> depends.

Thanks.

> This is obvious.

It wasn't to me.

> the plugin needs at least to determine if PA is installed. libpulse0
> plays the same role as libsystemd0...

Okay, but I wanted a clear answer to the question.  I never feel comfortable 
making assumptions about partial information when I'm dealing with someone 
else's system :)

> > Do you get the same list of packages from "aptitude purge libpulse0"?
> 
> Here it is: to preserve the dependent packages, aptitude recommends
> to not do the requested action!

> (sda5)root@apcnb98:~# aptitude purge libpulse0
> The following packages will be REMOVED: 
>   libasyncns0{u} libpulse0{p}

> The following packages have unmet dependencies:

...snip...

> The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
> 
>  Keep the following packages at their current version:
> 1) libasyncns0 [0.8-6+b2 (now, stable)]  
> 2) libpulse0 [14.2-2 (now, stable)]
> 
> Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]

Here, again, I would "follow the path" and reply "N" to find out what the next 
possible resolution of the situation might be.  Somewhere down the list you 
might find what you're looking for.


However, I think Florian's suggestion is a far better avenue to pursue to 
start with.


Antony.

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the telephone before the toilet.

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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Didier Kryn]

Le 18/12/2021 à 14:55, Antony Stone a écrit :
> On Saturday 18 December 2021 at 14:43:30, Didier Kryn wrote:
>
>> Aptitude why libpulse0 only lists xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin, but it
>> misses a lot, including indirectly xfce4.
> Yes, this is in my opinion one of the shortcomings of "aptitude why" - it 
> only 
> goes "one level up", whereas I would like it to follow each dependency until 
> it finds something that was installed manually, or is a system-essential 
> component.
>
> So, you did "aptitude why libpulse0" and it said "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin".
>
> However, was that:
>   "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Depends libpulse0" or
>   "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Recommends libpulse0" or
>   "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Suggests libpulse0" ?
    depends. This is obvious. the plugin needs at least to determine if
PA is installed. libpulse0 plays the same role as libsystemd0. And
package xfce4 is probably a virtual package which has no content but
only dependencies, one of them being xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin. The
problem is when you remove xfce4, all the useful stuff of xfce4 which
were installed automatically become "removable" and you need to turn
them one by one to "manually installed" to secure them.
>
> The next step is to do "aptitude why xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin" and keep 
> following things until you discover which package that you installed 
> manually, 
> or which essential system component, ultimately means you ended up with 
> libpulse0.
>
>> apt-get remove --purge libpulse0 wants to remove the following (which
>> includes gimp):
>>
>> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>>   atril* audacious* audacious-plugins* blueman* ffmpeg* font-manager*
>> geeqie*
>>   gimp* gstreamer1.0-libav* gstreamer1.0-plugins-good* libasound2-plugins*
>>   libatrilview3* libavdevice58* libavfilter7* libffmpegthumbnailer4v5*
>>   libfluidsynth2* libgegl-0.4-0* libgimp2.0* libopenscenegraph161*
>>   libpocketsphinx3* libpulse-mainloop-glib0* libpulse0* libqt5multimedia5*
>>   libsdl-image1.2* libsdl1.2debian* libsdl2-2.0-0* libsphinxbase3*
>>   libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37* libyelp0* metacity* metacity-themes* pavucontrol*
>>   qemu-system-gui* scribus* surf* vlc* vlc-plugin-base* xfce4*
>>   xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin* yelp* zenity*
>> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 41 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
> Do you get the same list of packages from "aptitude purge libpulse0"?
    Here it is: to preserve the dependent packages, aptitude recommends
to not do the requested action! It seems to stay in the middle of the
dependency tree because it misses some ultimately dependant packages.

(sda5)root@apcnb98:~# aptitude purge libpulse0
The following packages will be REMOVED: 
  libasyncns0{u} libpulse0{p}
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 1,039 kB will be freed.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 libsphinxbase3 : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.1) but it is not going to
be installed
 libfluidsynth2 : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.1) but it is not going to
be installed
 audacious-plugins : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.1) but it is not going
to be installed
 libavdevice58 : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.1) but it is not going to
be installed
 libasound2-plugins : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.1-1~) but it is not
going to be installed
 pavucontrol : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 4.0) but it is not going to be
installed
 libpulse-mainloop-glib0 : Depends: libpulse0 (= 14.2-2) but it is not
going to be installed
 libqt5multimedia5 : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.1) but it is not going
to be installed
 gstreamer1.0-plugins-good : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 2.0) but it is not
going to be installed
 libsdl2-2.0-0 : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.1) but it is not going to
be installed
 libsdl1.2debian : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.1) but it is not going to
be installed
 xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.1) but it is not
going to be installed
 qemu-system-gui : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.1) but it is not going to
be installed
 vlc-plugin-base : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 1.0) but it is not going to be
installed
The following actions will resolve these dependencies:

 Keep the following packages at their current version:
1) libasyncns0 [0.8-6+b2 (now, stable)]  
2) libpulse0 [14.2-2 (now, stable)]




Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]


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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Florian Zieboll via Dng]

On December 18, 2021 2:43:30 PM GMT+01:00, Didier Kryn  wrote:

> apt-get remove --purge libpulse0 wants to remove the following (which
> includes gimp):
> 
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>   atril* audacious* audacious-plugins* blueman* ffmpeg* font-manager*
> geeqie*
>   gimp* gstreamer1.0-libav* gstreamer1.0-plugins-good* libasound2-plugins*
>   libatrilview3* libavdevice58* libavfilter7* libffmpegthumbnailer4v5*
>   libfluidsynth2* libgegl-0.4-0* libgimp2.0* libopenscenegraph161*
>   libpocketsphinx3* libpulse-mainloop-glib0* libpulse0* libqt5multimedia5*
>   libsdl-image1.2* libsdl1.2debian* libsdl2-2.0-0* libsphinxbase3*
>   libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37* libyelp0* metacity* metacity-themes* pavucontrol*
>   qemu-system-gui* scribus* surf* vlc* vlc-plugin-base* xfce4*
>   xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin* yelp* zenity*
> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 41 to remove and 0 not upgraded.


Hallo Didier,

do you perhaps have something like an auto-'autoclean' policy defined in your 
apt configuration?

Libre Grüsse,
Florian

-- 

[message sent otg]

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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Antony Stone]

On Saturday 18 December 2021 at 14:43:30, Didier Kryn wrote:

> Aptitude why libpulse0 only lists xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin, but it
> misses a lot, including indirectly xfce4.

Yes, this is in my opinion one of the shortcomings of "aptitude why" - it only 
goes "one level up", whereas I would like it to follow each dependency until 
it finds something that was installed manually, or is a system-essential 
component.

So, you did "aptitude why libpulse0" and it said "xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin".

However, was that:
"xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Depends libpulse0" or
"xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Recommends libpulse0" or
"xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin Suggests libpulse0" ?

The next step is to do "aptitude why xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin" and keep 
following things until you discover which package that you installed manually, 
or which essential system component, ultimately means you ended up with 
libpulse0.

> apt-get remove --purge libpulse0 wants to remove the following (which
> includes gimp):
> 
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>   atril* audacious* audacious-plugins* blueman* ffmpeg* font-manager*
> geeqie*
>   gimp* gstreamer1.0-libav* gstreamer1.0-plugins-good* libasound2-plugins*
>   libatrilview3* libavdevice58* libavfilter7* libffmpegthumbnailer4v5*
>   libfluidsynth2* libgegl-0.4-0* libgimp2.0* libopenscenegraph161*
>   libpocketsphinx3* libpulse-mainloop-glib0* libpulse0* libqt5multimedia5*
>   libsdl-image1.2* libsdl1.2debian* libsdl2-2.0-0* libsphinxbase3*
>   libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37* libyelp0* metacity* metacity-themes* pavucontrol*
>   qemu-system-gui* scribus* surf* vlc* vlc-plugin-base* xfce4*
>   xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin* yelp* zenity*
> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 41 to remove and 0 not upgraded.

Do you get the same list of packages from "aptitude purge libpulse0"?


Antony.

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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Didier Kryn]

Le 18/12/2021 à 12:25, Antony Stone a écrit :
>> Please can you post the output of "aptitude show gimp" from the machine
>> where you have seen this?
> Another useful output to see would be "aptitude why XXX" where XXX is any of 
> the PA libraries you say you have found which gimp etc. depends on.
>
> "why" will tell you which other packages either depend on, or recommend, the 
> one you've asked about, and is a useful way to find out how (or indeed why) 
> something got installed on your machine.
>
    Aptitude why libpulse0 only lists xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin, but it
misses a lot, including indirectly xfce4.

apt-get remove --purge libpulse0 wants to remove the following (which
includes gimp):

The following packages will be REMOVED:
  atril* audacious* audacious-plugins* blueman* ffmpeg* font-manager*
geeqie*
  gimp* gstreamer1.0-libav* gstreamer1.0-plugins-good* libasound2-plugins*
  libatrilview3* libavdevice58* libavfilter7* libffmpegthumbnailer4v5*
  libfluidsynth2* libgegl-0.4-0* libgimp2.0* libopenscenegraph161*
  libpocketsphinx3* libpulse-mainloop-glib0* libpulse0* libqt5multimedia5*
  libsdl-image1.2* libsdl1.2debian* libsdl2-2.0-0* libsphinxbase3*
  libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37* libyelp0* metacity* metacity-themes* pavucontrol*
  qemu-system-gui* scribus* surf* vlc* vlc-plugin-base* xfce4*
  xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin* yelp* zenity*
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 41 to remove and 0 not upgraded.

--     Didier


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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Antony Stone]

On Saturday 18 December 2021 at 11:22:10, Antony Stone wrote:

> On Saturday 18 December 2021 at 11:14:59, Didier Kryn wrote:
> > I noticed, looking for packages the name of which include just the
> > 
> > string "pulse", that a few PA libraries are still installed and cannot
> > be removed because a lot of packages have a dependency on them, such as
> > xfce4, atril and even gimp!
> 
> Please can you post the output of "aptitude show gimp" from the machine
> where you have seen this?

Another useful output to see would be "aptitude why XXX" where XXX is any of 
the PA libraries you say you have found which gimp etc. depends on.

"why" will tell you which other packages either depend on, or recommend, the 
one you've asked about, and is a useful way to find out how (or indeed why) 
something got installed on your machine.

> I cannot find any dependency between the two, although there is a
> "suggested" for libasound2 on gimp.  I haven't yet found a link between
> libasound2 and pulseaudio, but even if there were, a suggestion is very
> different from a dependency.
> 
> 
> Antony.

-- 
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Antony Stone]

On Saturday 18 December 2021 at 11:14:59, Didier Kryn wrote:

> I noticed, looking for packages the name of which include just the
> string "pulse", that a few PA libraries are still installed and cannot
> be removed because a lot of packages have a dependency on them, such as
> xfce4, atril and even gimp!

Please can you post the output of "aptitude show gimp" from the machine where 
you have seen this?

I cannot find any dependency between the two, although there is a "suggested" 
for libasound2 on gimp.  I haven't yet found a link between libasound2 and 
pulseaudio, but even if there were, a suggestion is very different from a 
dependency.


Antony.

-- 
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meaning Christmas tree decorations, and is not a quote from Linus Torvalds.

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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Didier Kryn]

Le 17/12/2021 à 23:29, Didier Kryn a écrit :
> Le 17/12/2021 à 20:32, Marc Shapiro via Dng a écrit :
>> On 12/16/21 04:44, Didier Kryn wrote:
>>> Le 16/12/2021 à 07:08, Marc Shapiro via Dng a écrit :
 I don't think I'm up for compiling firefox from source.  And it would
 have to be recompiled every time mozilla releases a new version.

>>>  Why do you need to track the very last version from Mozilla? The
>>> package provided in Devuan Chimaera just works with Alsa out of the box.
>> Not here.  I just uninstalled pulseaudio, again, and ran Firefox ESR
>> (78.15.0esr 64-bit) and got complete silence.  Xine, however, was
>> working this time.
>     Firefox isn't my daily browser but I have it installed. I'm running
> the same version of Firefox as you, on the same arch and the same distro
> and it plays sound without pulseaudio. There must be something wrong in
> your config. Have you Alsa installed? And QuasMixer? Is it the version
> of Firefox provided by the Devuan package or did you compile it yourself?

    I noticed, looking for packages the name of which include just the
string "pulse", that a few PA libraries are still installed and cannot
be removed because a lot of packages have a dependency on them, such as
xfce4, atril and even gimp! This is the same kind of cancer as Systemd
in what we can easily recognize the touch of the author.

--     Didier


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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Didier Kryn]

Le 17/12/2021 à 20:32, Marc Shapiro via Dng a écrit :
>
> On 12/16/21 04:44, Didier Kryn wrote:
>> Le 16/12/2021 à 07:08, Marc Shapiro via Dng a écrit :
>>> I don't think I'm up for compiling firefox from source.  And it would
>>> have to be recompiled every time mozilla releases a new version.
>>>
>>  Why do you need to track the very last version from Mozilla? The
>> package provided in Devuan Chimaera just works with Alsa out of the box.
>
> Not here.  I just uninstalled pulseaudio, again, and ran Firefox ESR
> (78.15.0esr 64-bit) and got complete silence.  Xine, however, was
> working this time.

    Firefox isn't my daily browser but I have it installed. I'm running
the same version of Firefox as you, on the same arch and the same distro
and it plays sound without pulseaudio. There must be something wrong in
your config. Have you Alsa installed? And QuasMixer? Is it the version
of Firefox provided by the Devuan package or did you compile it yourself?

    -- Didier


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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Didier Kryn]

Le 17/12/2021 à 20:37, Marc Shapiro via Dng a écrit :
> On 12/16/21 09:59, Steve Litt wrote:
>> Gregory Nowak via Dng said on Wed, 15 Dec 2021 19:32:11 -0700
>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 03:34:09PM -0800, Marc Shapiro via Dng wrote:
>>> You need to use /usr/bin/apulse as a wrapper around every
>>> application you want to use it.
>
> Something got clipped wrong.  It was Gregory who said that, not me.
>
> Marc 

    Nevertheless it's true. It's the way apulse is supposed to work.

    -- Didier


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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Marc Shapiro via Dng]

On 12/16/21 09:59, Steve Litt wrote:

Gregory Nowak via Dng said on Wed, 15 Dec 2021 19:32:11 -0700


On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 03:34:09PM -0800, Marc Shapiro via Dng wrote:
You need to use /usr/bin/apulse as a wrapper around every
application you want to use it.


Something got clipped wrong.  It was Gregory who said that, not me.

Marc

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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Marc Shapiro via Dng]

On 12/16/21 04:44, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 16/12/2021 à 07:08, Marc Shapiro via Dng a écrit :

I don't think I'm up for compiling firefox from source.  And it would
have to be recompiled every time mozilla releases a new version.


     Why do you need to track the very last version from Mozilla? The
package provided in Devuan Chimaera just works with Alsa out of the box.


Not here.  I just uninstalled pulseaudio, again, and ran Firefox ESR 
(78.15.0esr 64-bit) and got complete silence.  Xine, however, was 
working this time.


Marc

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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Steve Litt]

Gregory Nowak via Dng said on Wed, 15 Dec 2021 19:32:11 -0700

> On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 03:34:09PM -0800, Marc Shapiro via Dng wrote:
> You need to use /usr/bin/apulse as a wrapper around every
> application you want to use it.

The preceding didn't work for me either.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[aitor]

Hi,

On 16/12/21 9:33, d...@d404.nl wrote:


Is it still working with pulseaudio after being compiled with
   --enable-alsa? If yes we could add a Devuanized firefox to the
   build process.


Yes, i tried removing alsa and reinstalling pulseaudio, and it still works.

Cheers,

Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[aitor]

Hi,

On 16/12/21 7:08, Marc Shapiro via Dng wrote:

I don't think I'm up for compiling firefox from source.


Packaging for i386 requires cross-compilation under 64 bits because it 
takes a lot of ram:


http://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos/pool/main/i/icecat/ 



All my native attempts failed, even with PAE extension. It requires also 
a lot of swap.



And it would have to be recompiled every time mozilla releases a new 
version.


It would have to be recompiled at every new release of devuan. But, as Didier 
has pointed out, packages pulled from
debian mirrors work with alsa out of the box. I don't know about the 
precompiled tarballs downloaded from mozilla's
website.

Cheers,

Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Didier Kryn]

Le 16/12/2021 à 07:08, Marc Shapiro via Dng a écrit :
>
> I don't think I'm up for compiling firefox from source.  And it would
> have to be recompiled every time mozilla releases a new version.
>
    Why do you need to track the very last version from Mozilla? The
package provided in Devuan Chimaera just works with Alsa out of the box.

--     Didier


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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[d...@d404.nl]

On 16-12-2021 01:58, aitor wrote:


Hi Steve,

On 16/12/21 1:09, Steve Litt wrote:

I'm not so sure. We're hearing anecdotes of people running Firefox with
only ALSA. Perhaps there's some secret magic incantation that we don't
yet know about.


FF needs to be compiled passing the flag:

ac_add_options --enable-alsa

I removed pulseaudio, apulse and libpulse0, and the sound is working 
for me.


Cheers,

Aitor.

Is it still working with pulseaudio after being compiled with 
--enable-alsa? If yes we could add a Devuanized firefox to the build 
process.


Grtz

Nick

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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Marc Shapiro via Dng]

On 12/15/21 16:58, aitor wrote:


Hi Steve,

On 16/12/21 1:09, Steve Litt wrote:

I'm not so sure. We're hearing anecdotes of people running Firefox with
only ALSA. Perhaps there's some secret magic incantation that we don't
yet know about.


FF needs to be compiled passing the flag:

ac_add_options --enable-alsa

I removed pulseaudio, apulse and libpulse0, and the sound is working 
for me.


Cheers,

Aitor.

I don't think I'm up for compiling firefox from source.  And it would 
have to be recompiled every time mozilla releases a new version.


Marc
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Marc Shapiro via Dng]

On 12/15/21 18:32, Gregory Nowak via Dng wrote:

On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 03:34:09PM -0800, Marc Shapiro via Dng wrote:

Installed apulse.  Still no sound in firefox, or xine.

Simply installing apulse doesn't mean applications will start using
it. You need to use /usr/bin/apulse as a wrapper around every
application you want to use it. Sounds tedious, but once you either
write a shell script, or modify a desktop shortcut to call the
application in question (I.E. /usr/bin/apulse your_application_binary), you can 
run the application as usual from
then on.

Greg


I understand that.  I started firefox with:

    apulse /path/to/firefox


Marc

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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Gregory Nowak via Dng]

On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 03:34:09PM -0800, Marc Shapiro via Dng wrote:
> Installed apulse.  Still no sound in firefox, or xine.

Simply installing apulse doesn't mean applications will start using
it. You need to use /usr/bin/apulse as a wrapper around every
application you want to use it. Sounds tedious, but once you either
write a shell script, or modify a desktop shortcut to call the
application in question (I.E. /usr/bin/apulse your_application_binary), you can 
run the application as usual from
then on.

Greg


-- 
web site: http://www.gregn.net
gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.

--
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[aitor]

Hi Steve,

On 16/12/21 1:09, Steve Litt wrote:

I'm not so sure. We're hearing anecdotes of people running Firefox with
only ALSA. Perhaps there's some secret magic incantation that we don't
yet know about.


FF needs to be compiled passing the flag:

ac_add_options --enable-alsa

I removed pulseaudio, apulse and libpulse0, and the sound is working for me.

Cheers,

Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Steve Litt]

Marc Shapiro via Dng said on Wed, 15 Dec 2021 15:34:09 -0800

>On 12/14/21 17:00, Steve Litt wrote:
>> Marc Shapiro via Dng said on Tue, 14 Dec 2021 14:09:31 -0800
>>  

[snip]
  
>> Have you power cycled yet?  

>Thanks for reminding me!
>
>Powered down and rebooted.  No sound in Firefox, or xine.
>
>Installed apulse.  Still no sound in firefox, or xine.
>
>Re-installed pulseaudio.  Sound is back.
>
>Uninstalled pulseaudio.  Reinstalled pipewire.  No sound.
>
>Uninstalled pipewire.  Reinstalled pulseaudio.  Sound is back.

None of this surprises me. My experience with Pulseaudio tells me that
Pulseaudio is highly state dependent, and therefore acts in accordance
with historical events. Imagine having to blink your car requiring two
headlight blinks, then two key turns, then a shift to reverse and a
shift back to park, in order to start. That's what I've found
Pulseaudio to be.

>Looks like I'm stuck with pulsaudio.

I'm not so sure. We're hearing anecdotes of people running Firefox with
only ALSA. Perhaps there's some secret magic incantation that we don't
yet know about.

Also, please read https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1209469 .


>BTW: As expected, play and aplay work just fine with neither
>pulseaudio or pipewire installed.

Yep. play, aplay, record, arecord, speaker-test and that whole crew are
ALSA tools.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Marc Shapiro via Dng]

On 12/14/21 17:00, Steve Litt wrote:

Marc Shapiro via Dng said on Tue, 14 Dec 2021 14:09:31 -0800


On 12/14/21 06:00, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 14/12/2021 à 13:37, ael via Dng a écrit :

Firefox works fine on my systems for playing audio without
pulseaudio or apulse. So, I suggest verifying firefox works for
you without apulse first.

Interesting. I only use firefox occasionally, but some versions at
least need apulse.

     On Chimaera: Mozilla Firefox 78.15.0esr - sound workswith Alsa
only.

I just purged ale pipewire configs and removed and purged pulseaudio.
Firefox 95.0 (downloaded from Mozilla) is providing sound with no
issues, so far).

Have you power cycled yet?


Thanks for reminding me!

Powered down and rebooted.  No sound in Firefox, or xine.

Installed apulse.  Still no sound in firefox, or xine.

Re-installed pulseaudio.  Sound is back.

Uninstalled pulseaudio.  Reinstalled pipewire.  No sound.

Uninstalled pipewire.  Reinstalled pulseaudio.  Sound is back.


Looks like I'm stuck with pulsaudio.

BTW: As expected, play and aplay work just fine with neither pulseaudio 
or pipewire installed.



Marc


SteveT

Steve Litt
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologisthttp://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques

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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Steve Litt]

Marc Shapiro via Dng said on Tue, 14 Dec 2021 14:09:31 -0800

>On 12/14/21 06:00, Didier Kryn wrote:
>> Le 14/12/2021 à 13:37, ael via Dng a écrit :  
 Firefox works fine on my systems for playing audio without
 pulseaudio or apulse. So, I suggest verifying firefox works for
 you without apulse first.  
>>> Interesting. I only use firefox occasionally, but some versions at
>>> least need apulse.  
>>
>>     On Chimaera: Mozilla Firefox 78.15.0esr - sound workswith Alsa
>> only.  
>
>I just purged ale pipewire configs and removed and purged pulseaudio.  
>Firefox 95.0 (downloaded from Mozilla) is providing sound with no 
>issues, so far).

Have you power cycled yet?

SteveT

Steve Litt 
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Marc Shapiro via Dng]

On 12/14/21 06:00, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 14/12/2021 à 13:37, ael via Dng a écrit :

Firefox works fine on my systems for playing audio without pulseaudio
or apulse. So, I suggest verifying firefox works for you without
apulse first.

Interesting. I only use firefox occasionally, but some versions at least
need apulse.


    On Chimaera: Mozilla Firefox 78.15.0esr - sound workswith Alsa only.


I just purged ale pipewire configs and removed and purged pulseaudio.  
Firefox 95.0 (downloaded from Mozilla) is providing sound with no 
issues, so far).



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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Didier Kryn]

Le 14/12/2021 à 13:37, ael via Dng a écrit :

Firefox works fine on my systems for playing audio without pulseaudio
or apulse. So, I suggest verifying firefox works for you without
apulse first.

Interesting. I only use firefox occasionally, but some versions at least
need apulse.


    On Chimaera: Mozilla Firefox 78.15.0esr - sound workswith Alsa only.

--     Didier





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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[ael via Dng]

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 08:05:15PM -0700, Gregory Nowak via Dng wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 06:57:02PM -0800, Marc Shapiro via Dng wrote:
> > Next, I may take out pulseaudio and verify
> > that firefox works on my system with apulse.  Then I can be rid of both of
> > them.
> 
> Firefox works fine on my systems for playing audio without pulseaudio
> or apulse. So, I suggest verifying firefox works for you without
> apulse first.

Interesting. I only use firefox occasionally, but some versions at least 
need apulse.

I have just checked with version 95.0, and it needs apulse here.

ael

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