Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 at 02:48:31 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > >>> 'It cannot work if what you need to do is feeding the HD controller some >>> proprietary firmware that cannot legally be embedded in the GPL driver.' >>> >>>

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > > 'It cannot work if what you need to do is feeding the HD controller some > > proprietary firmware that cannot legally be embedded in the GPL driver.' > > > > Has nothing whatsover to do with distribution. Obviously. > > It obviously

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting Antony Stone (antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it): > Not at all - I have that as a standard sig on all my list postings. If you > had something similar I would have replied to you differently. It's OK with me either way. I was just amused by the contrast between you going _out of your

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Wednesday 05 July 2017 at 10:57:07, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Antony Stone: > > Would you two please take your personal flame war offlist, and argue with > > each other in private? > > I've twice asked the other gentleman to please go away and argue with > someone else. I hope that helps.

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Oh, by the way, Anthony, I notice you had: > From: Antony Stone > To: dng@lists.dyne.org, Rick Moen , > Alessandro Selli but also: >Please reply to

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting Antony Stone (antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it): > Would you two please take your personal flame war offlist, and argue with > each > other in private? I've twice asked the other gentleman to please go away and argue with someone else. I hope that helps. As to the rest, the record

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Wednesday 05 July 2017 at 10:49:30, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > > I twice quoted the thread proving what I reported was just what was > > been > > > > discussed. > > 'It cannot work if what you need to do is feeding the HD controller some >

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > I twice quoted the thread proving what I reported was just what was been > discussed. 'It cannot work if what you need to do is feeding the HD controller some proprietary firmware that cannot legally be embedded in the GPL driver.' Has

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 at 01:16:46 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > >> It was and it stayed centered there, no matter how much you insist in >> stating the opposite. I already provided proof of it. > > Your actual wording, which I

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > It was and it stayed centered there, no matter how much you insist in > stating the opposite. I already provided proof of it. Your actual wording, which I quoted, says otherwise. Have a great day.

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 at 23:55:30 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > > > It is relevant in proving you cannot do that and *lawfully* distribute > > the module, which is what I have kept saying. > > Indeed, you do keep trying to

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > It is relevant in proving you cannot do that and *lawfully* distribute the > module, which is what I have kept saying. Indeed, you do keep trying to change the topic to distribution. But I already pointed that out. ;-> > I am not

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On 05/07/2017 at 01:52, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > > [b43 firmware BLOB] > >> It goes there *after* is was extracted out of the proprietary driver. > > I'm of course aware of that -- but that's irrelevant to what I was > saying, which is that it

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Le 04/07/2017 à 13:08, Alessandro Selli a écrit : Right, which brings up the issue that you cannot produce a distibution without an initramfs because, among the other problems, some of the drivers it comes with, some of which are needed to mount the root filesystem, do need a proprietary

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): [b43 firmware BLOB] > It goes there *after* is was extracted out of the proprietary driver. I'm of course aware of that -- but that's irrelevant to what I was saying, which is that it fails to qualify as an example of compiling a firmware

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

t;> code, > > Which, as noted, is you changing the subject: At the point where I > pointed out your mistake, you were talking about compiling firmware into > GPL drivers, not distribution. Here is, again, the full evolution of the current discussion: Author: Gary Olzeke Date: 2017-06-

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 at 14:41:28 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > >> On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 at 13:06:41 -0700 >> Rick Moen wrote: >> >> > Your upthread hypothetical didn't mention Devuan at all. >> >> Of

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 at 13:06:41 -0700 > Rick Moen wrote: > > > Your upthread hypothetical didn't mention Devuan at all. > > Of course it did. What you said, verbatim and without any qualifications, was 'It cannot work

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 at 14:12:09 +0200 Alessandro Selli wrote: [...] > They are advanced, mostly SAS and FC controllers, maybe some iSCSI > device too. Mostly Enterprise hardware, not consumer-PC. I did a quick search, all (or at least most) devices on the first

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 at 12:44:34 +0100 KatolaZ wrote: > On Tue, Jul 04, 2017 at 01:08:24PM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > [cut] > >> >> Right, which brings up the issue that you cannot produce a distibution >> without an initramfs because, among the other problems,

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Di, Jul 04, 2017 at 12:44:34 +0100, KatolaZ wrote: Uh? Which are those proprietary drivers needed to mount the root filesystem? AFAICT, Linux-libre is able to mount almost any filesystem, from almost any existing storage device, without requiring any proprietary binary blob at all. There

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Tue, Jul 04, 2017 at 01:08:24PM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: [cut] > > Right, which brings up the issue that you cannot produce a distibution > without an initramfs because, among the other problems, some of the drivers > it comes with, some of which are needed to mount the root

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 at 11:41:05 +0100 KatolaZ wrote: > On Tue, Jul 04, 2017 at 12:18:19PM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > [cut] > > > > didn't involve a right > > > reserved under copyright in the first place, > > > > Let me remind you GPL is a licence, and that it

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Tue, Jul 04, 2017 at 12:18:19PM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: [cut] > > didn't involve a right > > reserved under copyright in the first place, > > Let me remind you GPL is a licence, and that it prohibits linking > proprietary code with free code in the same binary file. > Sorry, but

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 02:00:22 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message <20170703020022.7ede7fb3@ayu>: > On Mon, 3 Jul at 2017 01:03:13 +0200 > Arnt Karlsen wrote: > > > On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 00:42:52 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message > > <20170703004252.748a9c7f@ayu>: > > > >> Il

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 at 17:51:48 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > >> It cannot work if what you need to do is feeding the HD controller some >> proprietary firmware that cannot legally be embedded in the GPL driver. > > ITYM that

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com): > It cannot work if what you need to do is feeding the HD controller some > proprietary firmware that cannot legally be embedded in the GPL driver. ITYM that the resulting derivative work cannot be lawfully redistributed. But compiling the

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 at 01:03:13 +0200 Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 00:42:52 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message > <20170703004252.748a9c7f@ayu>: > >> Il giorno Wed, 28 Jun 2017 19:38:11 +0200 >> Didier Kryn ha scritto: >> >>> Le 28/06/2017 à 15:40,

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Mon, 3 Jul at 2017 01:03:13 +0200 Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 00:42:52 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message > <20170703004252.748a9c7f@ayu>: > >> Il giorno Wed, 28 Jun 2017 19:38:11 +0200 >> Didier Kryn ha scritto: >> >>> Le 28/06/2017 à 15:40,

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 00:42:52 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message <20170703004252.748a9c7f@ayu>: > Il giorno Wed, 28 Jun 2017 19:38:11 +0200 > Didier Kryn ha scritto: > > > Le 28/06/2017 à 15:40, Stephan Seitz a écrit : > > > And today you should always encrypt your discs. > > >

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Il giorno Wed, 28 Jun 2017 19:38:11 +0200 Didier Kryn ha scritto: > Le 28/06/2017 à 15:40, Stephan Seitz a écrit : > > And today you should always encrypt your discs. > > I don't see any reason to encrypt /usr. You might like to encrypt > /etc because it contains user

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 at 08:09:21 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Stephan Seitz (stse+dev...@fsing.rootsland.net): > > > That the kernel can’t find the root filesystem if it is encrypted? > > And the kernel lacks the capability to ask you for the password. > > If you're

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 at 22:57:16 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting John Morris (jmor...@beau.org): > >> Nope, that negates one of the principle reasons to use an initramfs in >> the first place. You assume the stock kernel can see the drive where >> you intend to put this new

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Le 29/06/2017 à 01:08, Harald Arnesen a écrit : Didier Kryn [2017-06-28 19:38]: I don't see any reason to encrypt /usr. You might like to encrypt /etc because it contains user names and (already encrypted) passwords. But definitely there is no reason to encrypt everything. But if you

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Rick Moen [2017-06-28 20:33]: > Temporary files in /tmp are sometimes a little sensitive and sometimes > greatly so. (It's usually a tmpfs on my systems.) Operational paranoia > suggests keeping it at least cleaned up frequently, if you're going to > bother to have /home as a dmcrypt

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Didier Kryn [2017-06-28 19:38]: > I don't see any reason to encrypt /usr. You might like to encrypt > /etc because it contains user names and (already encrypted) passwords. > But definitely there is no reason to encrypt everything. But if you encrypt anything at all, isn't it easier to

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Le 28/06/2017 à 20:33, Rick Moen a écrit : Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr): I don't see any reason to encrypt /usr. You might like to encrypt /etc because it contains user names and (already encrypted) passwords. But definitely there is no reason to encrypt everything. /home would be

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr): > I don't see any reason to encrypt /usr. You might like to > encrypt /etc because it contains user names and (already encrypted) > passwords. But definitely there is no reason to encrypt everything. /home would be where I keep anything that's sensitive.

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Le 28/06/2017 à 15:40, Stephan Seitz a écrit : And today you should always encrypt your discs. I don't see any reason to encrypt /usr. You might like to encrypt /etc because it contains user names and (already encrypted) passwords. But definitely there is no reason to encrypt everything.

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting Stephan Seitz (stse+dev...@fsing.rootsland.net): > That the kernel can’t find the root filesystem if it is encrypted? > And the kernel lacks the capability to ask you for the password. If you're correct that a kernal cannot find an encrypted rootfs, then by the same token it cannot find

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Mi, Jun 28, 2017 at 06:55:37 -0700, Rick Moen wrote: Yes, and this will not work with new-school methods like disc encryption because something needs to ask you for the password. What exactly about LUKS is incompatible with use of a kernel compiled to include all key drivers including those

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting Stephan Seitz (stse+dev...@fsing.rootsland.net): > On Di, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:57:16 -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > >Step 1. Compile a kernel that includes inline all key drivers including > >those needed to find the root filesystem. > >Step 2. Profit! > >That's the old-school method.

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Di, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:57:16 -0700, Rick Moen wrote: Step 1. Compile a kernel that includes inline all key drivers including those needed to find the root filesystem. Step 2. Profit! That's the old-school method. Yes, and this will not work with new-school methods like disc

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting k...@aspodata.se (k...@aspodata.se): > And that works when the root filesystem is on a device with fixed major/ > minor number, e.g. /dev/sda2 /dev/hda1, and even /dev/md1 for md > devices with the old (0.90) format superblock if they are auto-assebled. > It doesn't work for devices with

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

k...@aspodata.se writes: > And that works when the root filesystem is on a device with fixed > major/ minor number [...] It doesn't work for devices with dynamic > device numbers. That used to be true, but it's improved quite a bit in recent years. Since 2.6.37 (2011), the kernel lets you

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Rick Moen: > Quoting John Morris (jmor...@beau.org): > > > Nope, that negates one of the principle reasons to use an initramfs in > > the first place. You assume the stock kernel can see the drive where > > you intend to put this new partition; one of the big drivers of initrd > > in the first

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Le 28/06/2017 à 07:47, John Morris a écrit : On Sat, 2017-06-24 at 11:08 +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: Anyway I think there's a simple method to live without the initramfs. Everything which is done from initramfs could be done the same way from a disk partition, which might make it easier to

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting John Morris (jmor...@beau.org): > Nope, that negates one of the principle reasons to use an initramfs in > the first place. You assume the stock kernel can see the drive where > you intend to put this new partition; one of the big drivers of initrd > in the first place was exotic

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Sat, 2017-06-24 at 11:08 +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: > Anyway I think there's a simple method to live without the > initramfs. Everything which is done from initramfs could be done the > same way from a disk partition, which might make it easier to debug: > have a /os directory

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Sat, 2017-06-24 at 11:04 -0500, Don Wright wrote: > Just teleport into the datacenter on the other side of the planet, or the > office building where your after-hours key card doesn't work because all > cards were cancelled following the alleged burglary last week*, or do some > other

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Le 24/06/2017 à 03:08, Steve Litt a écrit : Think initramfs systems are cheap and easy? Making a working one manually is tough: I've done it. And even using tools like dracut and initramfs-tools is difficult and error prone. Never used any tool for that. I crafted some initramfs and did it

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:55:57 -0500 John Morris wrote: > On Fri, 2017-06-23 at 16:41 +0200, Antony Stone wrote: > > > https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge/ > > if you want to start feeling annoyed as well as surprised. > > Dunno, that one

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting John Morris (jmor...@beau.org): > Dunno, that one actually makes a lot of sense. At minimum, it's definitely not something to get religious over, so nobody should be hyperventilating over it. > The original reason no longer applies, we should all agree on that > point, right? Sure.

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Fri, 2017-06-23 at 16:41 +0200, Antony Stone wrote: > https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge/ if > you want to start feeling annoyed as well as surprised. Dunno, that one actually makes a lot of sense. Applying the logic of Chesterton's Fence here seems

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Quoting k...@aspodata.se (k...@aspodata.se): > I usually don't use initrd/initramfs so I don't like that merge. > Also I want to have the ability to unmounting /usr if I would whish. > > If it is to make all binaries to be accessible as /usr/bin/whatever, > one could make links from /usr/bin/ to

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Didier: > Le 23/06/2017 à 16:41, Antony Stone a écrit : > > On Friday 23 June 2017 at 16:06:52, Jaromil wrote: > >> On Thu, 22 Jun 2017, Hendrik Boom wrote: > >>> Could that be a side effect of debian/systemd's fusion of /usr with /? > >> ?!?!?! did they ?!?!?! > >> how is this madness done, via

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

Le 23/06/2017 à 16:41, Antony Stone a écrit : On Friday 23 June 2017 at 16:06:52, Jaromil wrote: On Thu, 22 Jun 2017, Hendrik Boom wrote: Could that be a side effect of debian/systemd's fusion of /usr with /? ?!?!?! did they ?!?!?! how is this madness done, via mount -o bind

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Friday 23 June 2017 at 16:06:52, Jaromil wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jun 2017, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > > Could that be a side effect of debian/systemd's fusion of /usr with /? > > ?!?!?! did they ?!?!?! > > how is this madness done, via mount -o bind https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge >

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues, dng 33/49/#2,#3

bash/nano all seems to be working fine now didn't make any changes - afaik these are my $PATHs:(all stock install) olzeke51@devASCII:~/Desktop$ echo $PATH /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games root@devASCII:~# echo $PATH

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Thu, 22 Jun 2017, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 05:02:54PM -0400, Gary Olzeke wrote: > > bash couldn't find 'nano' (I wanted to copy the 'sandbox' message) > > bash was looking in /usr/bin/nano - it was at /bin/nano [per 'which' > > command] > > Could that be a side effect

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On 06/22/2017 08:44 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 05:02:54PM -0400, Gary Olzeke wrote: >> bash couldn't find 'nano' (I wanted to copy the 'sandbox' message) >> bash was looking in /usr/bin/nano - it was at /bin/nano [per 'which' >> command] > > Could that be a side effect

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 05:02:54PM -0400, Gary Olzeke wrote: > bash couldn't find 'nano' (I wanted to copy the 'sandbox' message) > bash was looking in /usr/bin/nano - it was at /bin/nano [per 'which' > command] Could that be a side effect of debian/systemd's fusion of /usr with /? --

Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

dear Gary On Thu, 22 Jun 2017, Gary Olzeke wrote: >recently did an ASCII upgrade from the CD install Jessie 1.0-0 64 bit >(see my ASCII-install_notes on [1]dev1galaxy.org forum) hearing from multi/media issues just makes me think dyne:bolic will be totally fine with good old jack1 and

[DNG] some ASCII issues

recently did an ASCII upgrade from the CD install Jessie 1.0-0 64 bit (see my ASCII-install_notes on dev1galaxy.org forum) ' these were some issues - I will start trying to debug them/investigate and create bug reports BUT I wanted to give a heads up!! I didn't have these with the Jessie final