Fri, 22 May 2020 21:41:17 -0400 - Steve Litt :
> > Trace out, please, the mechanism for how
> > specifically that worked, according to you.
>
> 1. Redhat complexifies Linux.
>
> 2. People have trouble adminning the new Linux and finding folks
>capable of adminning the new Linux.
>
> 3.
On Fri, 22 May 2020 01:42:46 -0700
Rick Moen via Dng wrote:
> C'mon, Didier. Explain please how adoption of systemd in RHEL and
> CentOS either gave RHAT a superior competitive market position
> relative to other market-relevant Linux distro companies
It didn't have to. Redhat didn't give a
Le 22/05/2020 à 10:42, Rick Moen via Dng a écrit :
C'mon, Didier. Explain please how adoption of systemd in RHEL and
CentOS either gave RHAT a superior competitive market position relative
This is a domain in which I haven't any expertise, by chance it was
not my point. First, let's not
Hi,
Rick Moen via Dng writes:
> Quoting Joel Roth via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org):
>
>> While it may be tiresome to some, I think it can be valuable
>> to occasionally revisit the reasons for Devuan's existence.
>
> Distinguo:
>
> The reasons for Devuan's existence involve avoiding getting dragged
Fri, 22 May 2020 01:42:46 -0700 - Rick Moen :
> C'mon, Didier. Explain please how adoption of systemd in RHEL and
> CentOS either gave RHAT a superior competitive market position relative
> to other market-relevant Linux distro companies or improved RHAT's
> financial strength. Trace out,
Anno domini 2020 Fri, 22 May 01:42:46 -0700
Rick Moen via Dng scripsit:
> Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
>
> > Well, *they* claimed their model was to make money out of
> > complexity, as Steve reported. It's not a suputation, it's an
> > official statement. Therefore no idea of a
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
> Well, *they* claimed their model was to make money out of
> complexity, as Steve reported. It's not a suputation, it's an
> official statement. Therefore no idea of a conspiracy from Steve.
I note without special objection that you aren't addressing
Quoting Joel Roth via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org):
> While it may be tiresome to some, I think it can be valuable
> to occasionally revisit the reasons for Devuan's existence.
Distinguo:
The reasons for Devuan's existence involve avoiding getting dragged
along by Debian Project's poor
Le 22/05/2020 à 10:11, Didier Kryn a écrit :
I assume they do what they claimed, and actually Systemd is well
in line with it. Then I try to imagine what can result from that,
because the result of human actions is not always what they expected.
Already they have been bought by Oracle -
Le 21/05/2020 à 22:24, Rick Moen via Dng a écrit :
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
When a company takes action to increase its share of the market and/or
its cash flow, we normally do not call that a conspiration. It is
legitimate to write about it and discuss the actions it takes.
And,
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 12:43:06AM +0100, g4sra via Dng wrote:
> Why are we (DNG mailing list) going over this same old same old again ?
I was probably the firestarter in this case.
While it may be tiresome to some, I think it can be valuable
to occasionally revisit the reasons for Devuan's
Quoting g4sra via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org):
> Um, is this what you were referring to ?
> https://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/ibm-closes-landmark-acquisition-red-hat-34-billion-defines-open-hybrid-cloud-future
Oh, _do_ go on, sir.
Sadly, I'm guessing you actually have no plan to flesh
On 21/05/2020 21:24, Rick Moen via Dng wrote:
> Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
>
>> When a company takes action to increase its share of the market and/or
>> its cash flow, we normally do not call that a conspiration. It is
>> legitimate to write about it and discuss the actions it takes.
>
On 2020-05-20 18:45, Steve Litt wrote:
> It really is just that simple. There's no need to add anything to
> accommodate badly behaved init system authors.
I wanted to add:
5. reaping orphan processes when they die
but I had the good sense to read the wikipedia article "Orphan process"
first,
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
> When a company takes action to increase its share of the market and/or
> its cash flow, we normally do not call that a conspiration. It is
> legitimate to write about it and discuss the actions it takes.
And, in the matter at hand, RHAT's underwriting of
Quoting dal (d...@chalmers.se):
> would you please cease using negatively charged buzzwords, like
> "conspiracy theories"
It's not necessarily derogation to use that and similar phrases: It's
description. To quote Richard Hostadter's ground-breaking 1964 article:
Nothing really prevents a
Le 21/05/2020 à 11:39, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp a écrit :
When you take a look at "government media" in EU and Austria in particular you will find
that there's a bashing of people not conforming with mainstream media. Narrative goes "you do
not love your goverment, you think there's a hidden agenda,
If LP doesn't see the obvious benefit of making systemd optional, I
can't see that he'd go to the trouble of creating a plug-and-play setup
to allow alternatives to systemd to get in on the act. (Would a dictator
suggest the tryout of other political systems, to see how they stacked
up against
Anno domini 2020 Thu, 21 May 11:30:31 +0200
Didier Kryn scripsit:
> Le 21/05/2020 à 02:05, Steve Litt a écrit :
> > Rick Moen via Dng wrote:
> >
> >> conspiracy hypothesis.
> > Conspiracies happen. Not every event is brought forth by a single
> > person. I remember a time when scads of us Linux
Le 21/05/2020 à 02:05, Steve Litt a écrit :
Rick Moen via Dng wrote:
conspiracy hypothesis.
Conspiracies happen. Not every event is brought forth by a single
person. I remember a time when scads of us Linux enthusiasts conspired
to depose Microsoft. "Conspiracy theory" is not an insult,
Rick,
would you please cease using negatively charged buzzwords,
like "conspiracy theories"
while your counterpart is talking about existing legitimate (good or bad but
legitimate)
business interests and motivations which are _not_ hidden at all.
Also, in my humble opinion, the following is a
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> > Steve's is a classic non-testable paranoid
>
> It would be testable if we could put on the witness stand under oath
> somebody who attended the meetings that decided to push systemd.
I mean, of course, testable in the real world.
Meanwhile,
On Tue, 19 May 2020 12:03:20 -0700
Rick Moen via Dng wrote:
> > Presumably Steve Litt's point is that Red Hat has to make the
> > internals complex so that there's complexity to shield the costomer
> > from.
>
> Steve's is a classic non-testable paranoid
It would be testable if we could
On Tue, 19 May 2020 07:32:24 -0400
Hendrik Boom wrote:
> Presumably Steve Litt's point is that Red Hat has to make the
> internals complex so that there's complexity to shield the costomer
> from.
That's one of my two points. The other point is a complexified Linux
makes their education and
On Tue, 19 May 2020 10:29:02 +0100
Peter Duffy wrote:
> Apologies for following up on my own post - just an afterthought.
>
> When I originally encountered systemd, the word was that it was so
> pervasive that it couldn't be removed (obviously, now we know
> different ;) )
>
> Given the
On Mon, 18 May 2020 21:39:11 -0400
Steve Litt wrote:
> I eschew Occam's Razor in favor of Litt's Razor, which can be
> paraphrased "Follow the money."
See also the maxim of Cassius:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cui_bono
"to whom is it a benefit?"
Quoting Hendrik Boom (hend...@topoi.pooq.com):
> Specifically, it says:
>
> "Do you think the Red Hat model would apply equally well to other
> areas of software? "
>
> "Red Hat's model works because of the complexity of the technology we
> work with. An operating platform has a lot of moving
> I am. I eschew Occam's Razor in favor of Litt's Razor, which can be
> paraphrased "Follow the money."
>
> As one piece of evidence I present the words of a Redhat exec long
> before systemd existed:
>
> http://asay.blogspot.com/2006/10/interview-with-red-hat-cto-brian.html
>
> Search the word
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 09:39:11PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Mon, 18 May 2020 08:57:39 -0700
> Ian Zimmerman wrote:
>
> > On 2020-05-18 16:42, Didier Kryn wrote:
> >
> > > In particular by porting Window$ on top of Systemd-Gnu-Linux, just
> > > like MacOS lives on top of FreeBSD and makes
Apologies for following up on my own post - just an afterthought.
When I originally encountered systemd, the word was that it was so
pervasive that it couldn't be removed (obviously, now we know
different ;) )
Given the alleged non-optionality of systemd, I started to wonder about
some kind of
Mon, 18 May 2020 08:57:39 -0700 - Ian Zimmerman :
> On 2020-05-18 16:42, Didier Kryn wrote:
>
> > In particular by porting Window$ on top of Systemd-Gnu-Linux, just
> > like MacOS lives on top of FreeBSD and makes big profit.
>
> How would that work from the legal POV? Linux is still GPL,
On Mon, 18 May 2020 08:57:39 -0700
Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> On 2020-05-18 16:42, Didier Kryn wrote:
>
> > In particular by porting Window$ on top of Systemd-Gnu-Linux, just
> > like MacOS lives on top of FreeBSD and makes big profit.
>
> How would that work from the legal POV? Linux is still
On 2020-05-18 16:42, Didier Kryn wrote:
> In particular by porting Window$ on top of Systemd-Gnu-Linux, just
> like MacOS lives on top of FreeBSD and makes big profit.
How would that work from the legal POV? Linux is still GPL, pretty much
for this very reason.
I do believe that systemd was
Le 18/05/2020 à 13:04, Peter Duffy a écrit :
Thanks for the heads up on that - fascinating article.
One of the things which always baffles me about systemd was that right
from the word go, there was something which would have nipped in the bud
all the controversy, pain, recriminations, etc.
Thanks for the heads up on that - fascinating article.
One of the things which always baffles me about systemd was that right
from the word go, there was something which would have nipped in the bud
all the controversy, pain, recriminations, etc. etc. Make systemd
optional (so that, for example,
On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:09:46PM -0700, spiralofhope wrote:
> On Sat, 16 May 2020 03:06:37 +1000
> wirelessduck--- via Dng wrote:
>
> > > On 15 May 2020, at 22:51, Emiliano Marini via Dng
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't know who contact but the site http://without-systemd.org
> > >
Great, thanks!
On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 2:06 PM wirelessduck--- via Dng
wrote:
>
>
> On 15 May 2020, at 22:51, Emiliano Marini via Dng
> wrote:
>
>
> I don't know who contact but the site http://without-systemd.org isn't
> working (it throws database error):
>
>
> It looks to have been
I believe that, we are being targeted by some..
even in the IRC, whitout expanding more on that..
Citando spiralofhope :
On Sat, 16 May 2020 03:06:37 +1000
wirelessduck--- via Dng wrote:
On 15 May 2020, at 22:51, Emiliano Marini via Dng
wrote:
I don't know who contact but the site
On Sat, 16 May 2020 03:06:37 +1000
wirelessduck--- via Dng wrote:
> > On 15 May 2020, at 22:51, Emiliano Marini via Dng
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > I don't know who contact but the site http://without-systemd.org
> > isn't working (it throws database error):
>
> It looks to have been resurrected
> On 15 May 2020, at 22:51, Emiliano Marini via Dng wrote:
>
>
> I don't know who contact but the site http://without-systemd.org isn't
> working (it throws database error):
It looks to have been resurrected by someone else at
https://without-systemd.frama.wiki/ but I can’t verify for
I don't know who contact but the site http://without-systemd.org isn't
working (it throws database error):
*Warning*:
include(/usr/share/mediawiki-extensions/base/ExtensionFunctions.php):
failed to open stream: No such file or directory in
*/etc/mediawiki-extensions/extensions.php* on line *4*
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