Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
Hi again, On 9/8/19 20:50, aitor_czr wrote: Hi, On 1/8/19 17:45, fsmithred via Dng wrote: There's not really anything to yank out. Don't have a non-free repo and don't put non-free firmware on the installer isos. They probably also want to use a libre kernel. This is not a difficult task, and gnuinos already does this. You already have a repository available for this task: deb http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged main deb-src http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged main deb http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged -updates main deb-src http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged -updates main deb http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged -security main deb-src http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged -security main being jessie, ascii or beowulf. Just add the gpg key of gnuinos: |$ curl -L https://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos_pk.asc | sudo apt-key add -| |and update the repository.| | | || If devuan ever provides a free/libre repo and release, it will be in addition to the one that provides non-free firmware for the same reasons you state below. This is something that's been discussed at meetings several times, and I think we're all in agreement. On the other hand, the official kernel of debian has been removed from the repository of gnuinos and replaced by linux-libre. If you want to build your own repository, you will need to patch both reprepro and amprolla in order to use them together (in the concrete case of gnuinos, because you can find also your own way). Cheers, Aitor. Textual words: [...] Release four distinct versions of gNewSense, including a distribution that includes a subset of packages for a focused user experience, one that is essentially vanilla Debian with our freedom improvements, a developer edition with the latest and greatest GNU development tools, and a server edition that is based on the work of the Devuan community [...] taken from: http://www.gnewsense.org/next-steps/ Cheers, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
Hi, On 1/8/19 17:45, fsmithred via Dng wrote: There's not really anything to yank out. Don't have a non-free repo and don't put non-free firmware on the installer isos. They probably also want to use a libre kernel. This is not a difficult task, and gnuinos already does this. You already have a repository available for this task: deb http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged main deb-src http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged main deb http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged -updates main deb-src http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged -updates main deb http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged -security main deb-src http://packages.gnuinos.org/merged -security main being jessie, ascii or beowulf. Just add the gpg key of gnuinos: |$ curl -L https://packages.gnuinos.org/gnuinos_pk.asc | sudo apt-key add -| |and update the repository.| | | || If devuan ever provides a free/libre repo and release, it will be in addition to the one that provides non-free firmware for the same reasons you state below. This is something that's been discussed at meetings several times, and I think we're all in agreement. On the other hand, the official kernel of debian has been removed from the repository of gnuinos and replaced by linux-libre. If you want to build your own repository, you will need to patch both reprepro and amprolla in order to use them together (in the concrete case of gnuinos, because you can find also your own way). Cheers, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
El 2/8/19 a les 18:25, Antoine via Dng ha escrit: > someone on the gNewSense list floated the idea of rebasing their distro > on Devuan, rather than having to rip systemd out themselves (from > Debian, their current base). The above post was then transmitted to us > in search of anyone interested in cooperating. +1 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
I'm sorry, this is the source of the original thread: https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnewsense-users And concrete letters: https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/gnewsense-users/2019-07/index.html El 1/8/19 a les 18:26, Steve Litt ha escrit: > On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:29:39 +0200 > Narcis Garcia wrote: > >> Missatge reenviat >> Assumpte: Re: [gNewSense-users] Stepping down >> Data: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:45:32 +0200 >> De: Sam Geeraerts >> A: gnewsense-us...@nongnu.org >> >> On 29/07/19 17:10, Will Hill wrote: >>> It would probably be easier to take non free software out of Devuan >>> than it is to take Systemd out of Debian, so I'll be happy if >>> gNewSense continues the easy way. >> >> Indeed, at least technically. If there's anyone here who knows some >> Devuan people it would be interesting to hear from him/her. > > There's not enough context here to understand, and the attributions > appear screwed up. I have no Devuan posts from Sam Geeraerts nor Will > Hill, so I'm assuming this came in from somewhere else > (gnewsense-us...@nongnue.org maybe?). > > Anyway, if this is a suggestion to yank all nonfree out of Devuan and > call it something else, that's fine with me. As a matter of fact, > Devuan could slowly, selectively and judiciously make the same > substitutions as the child distro. > > But if the suggestion is to yank out nonfree and call it Devuan, for > practical purposes that would make Devuan unbootable for a lot of > people. Malfunctions during boot can have causes depending on tens or > hundreds of factors, many hidden away. It's a bridge too far to > expect someone booting up a distro for the first time to 1) > Know all his hardware, 2) Know exactly what drivers and firmware to > use, 3) Know where to find those drivers and firmware, 4) Know all the > commands to correctly load those drivers and firmware from a thumb > drive, and 5) Have enough spare time to go through all this. > > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > July 2019 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques > of the Successful Technologist > http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
On 5/8/19 10:49, aitor_czr wrote: Hi, On 3/8/19 15:36, pekman wrote: I'm hoping for a prosperous future for the whole team, which will find a solid solution for one of the first FSF certified distros. Just as a curiosity, in the beginning GNU/Trisquel -a full free spanish distribution listed in the FSF website and developed by Rubén Rodriguez- took debian as a basewhile gNewSense was taking ubuntu instead. The current situation is precisely the opposite because while the second one was turning to debian, the first oneturn to ubuntu.And this is not a mere coincidence, but rather a strategy of the FSF in orderto have official distributions based on both debian and ubuntu. Cheers, Aitor. Oops..., i sent the same message twice :) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
Hi, On 3/8/19 15:36, pekman wrote: I'm hoping for a prosperous future for the whole team, which will find a solid solution for one of the first FSF certified distros. Just as a curiosity, in the beginning GNU/Trisquel -a full free spanish distribution listed in the FSF website and developed by Rubén Rodriguez- took debian as a basewhile gNewSense was taking ubuntu instead. The current situation is precisely the opposite because while the second one was turning to debian, the first oneturn to ubuntu.And this is not a mere coincidence, but rather a strategy of the FSF in orderto have official distributions based on both debian and ubuntu. Cheers, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
Hi, On 3/8/19 15:36, pekman wrote: I'm hoping for a prosperous future for the whole team, which will find a solid solution for one of the first FSF certified distros. Just as a curosity,in the beginning GNU/Trisquel -a spanish full free distribution listed in the FSF website and developed by Rubén Rodriguez- took debian as a base, while gNewSense was taking ubuntu instead. The current situation is indeed the opposite, because when gNewSense turn to ubuntuGNU/Trisquel turn to debian. And this is not mere coincidence, but rather a strategy of the FSF in order tohave official distributions based on both debian and ubuntu. Cheers, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
Il giorno sabato 03/08/2019 12:36:10 -0300 pekman ha scritto: > I think GNewSense is welcome. > > Devuan will be a great basis for your development. The work to do is > not complex. I myself was able to remove all Non-Free Software on my > own and install Linux Libre bundled with Jason Self. That sounds very interesting indeed. Could you please give details of these procedures? Regards -- al3xu5 Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and any industrial design restrictions. Public GPG/PGP key block ID: 4096 bit RSA key 69C5977BF94CFE23 Fingerprint: 59C6 9DC7 CD4B CF2F A190 E3DE 69C5 977B F94C FE23 pgpADaSz5jkji.pgp Description: Firma digitale OpenPGP ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
Em Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:29:39 +0200 Narcis Garcia escreveu: > Missatge reenviat > Assumpte: Re: [gNewSense-users] Stepping down > Data: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:45:32 +0200 > De: Sam Geeraerts > A: gnewsense-us...@nongnu.org > > On 29/07/19 17:10, Will Hill wrote: > [...] > > Indeed, at least technically. If there's anyone here who knows some > Devuan people it would be interesting to hear from him/her. > > ___ > gNewSense-users mailing list > gnewsense-us...@nongnu.org > https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnewsense-users > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng I think GNewSense is welcome. Devuan will be a great basis for your development. The work to do is not complex. I myself was able to remove all Non-Free Software on my own and install Linux Libre bundled with Jason Self. Good news, everything works as expected. Currently I collaborate with the Devuan documentation in Portuguese language and in the development of Hyperbola GNU/Linux-Libre. Devua will be a great choice for the future of GNewSense. I'm hoping for a prosperous future for the whole team, which will find a solid solution for one of the first FSF certified distros. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
On Thu, Aug 01, 2019 at 12:26:02PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:29:39 +0200 Narcis Garcia wrote: Missatge reenviat Assumpte: Re: [gNewSense-users] Stepping down Data: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:45:32 +0200 De: Sam Geeraerts A: gnewsense-us...@nongnu.org On 29/07/19 17:10, Will Hill wrote: > It would probably be easier to take non free software out of Devuan > than it is to take Systemd out of Debian, so I'll be happy if > gNewSense continues the easy way. Indeed, at least technically. If there's anyone here who knows some Devuan people it would be interesting to hear from him/her. There's not enough context here to understand, and the attributions appear screwed up. I have no Devuan posts from Sam Geeraerts nor Will Hill, so I'm assuming this came in from somewhere else (gnewsense-us...@nongnue.org maybe?). My immediate impression is that someone on the gNewSense list floated the idea of rebasing their distro on Devuan, rather than having to rip systemd out themselves (from Debian, their current base). The above post was then transmitted to us in search of anyone interested in cooperating. Of course, I could be misinterpreting (it wouldn't be the first time). Any other ideas, anyone? Antoine -- The sooner you make 5000 mistakes, the sooner you can correct them. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
Il giorno giovedì 01/08/2019 12:26:02 -0400 Steve Litt ha scritto: > On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:29:39 +0200 > Narcis Garcia wrote: > > > Missatge reenviat > > Assumpte: Re: [gNewSense-users] Stepping down > > Data: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:45:32 +0200 > > De: Sam Geeraerts > > A: gnewsense-us...@nongnu.org > > > > On 29/07/19 17:10, Will Hill wrote: > > > It would probably be easier to take non free software out of Devuan > > > than it is to take Systemd out of Debian, so I'll be happy if > > > gNewSense continues the easy way. > > > > Indeed, at least technically. If there's anyone here who knows some > > Devuan people it would be interesting to hear from him/her. > > There's not enough context here to understand, [...] Hi I was a gnewsense user (and a contributor to the website documentation also) in the past. [0] [0] http://www.gnewsense.org/Main/HomePage gnewsense was one of the first distributions listed among the "Free GNU/Linux distributions" which follow the FSF's "Free System Distribution Guidelines (GNU FSDG)". This means they include, and propose, exclusively free software, rejecting nonfree applications, nonfree programming platforms, nonfree drivers, nonfree firmware “blobs”, nonfree games, and any other nonfree software, as well as nonfree manuals or documentation. [1] [1] https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html The last gnewsense release was 4.0 of May 2016, derived from Debian (platforms: i386, amd64, Lemote Yeelong) but with a Linux-libre kernel and only with libre packages (using a "Builder" script to remove nonfree software). [2] [2] https://savannah.nongnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=8535 About ten days ago (Jul 23), Sam Geeraerts announced the gnewsense-dev mailing list that it has decided to step down as the maintainer of gNewSense. [3] [3] https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/gnewsense-dev/2019-07/msg0.html Therefore, I think I understand that the actual "gnewsense context" is: - find a new manteiner, and contributors - restart development to produce a new updated version - decide which distribution to base on for the future The quoted message above come from the gnewsense-users mailing list [4], where there is some discussion about which base distribution gnewsense should adopt in the future. [4] https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/gnewsense-users/2019-07/msg00011.html It seems to me the discussion is just about technicals details they need to know to decide how to move on. > Anyway, if this is a suggestion to yank all nonfree out of Devuan and > call it something else, that's fine with me. As a matter of fact, > Devuan could slowly, selectively and judiciously make the same > substitutions as the child distro. +1 -- al3xu5 Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and any industrial design restrictions. Public GPG/PGP key block ID: 4096 bit RSA key 69C5977BF94CFE23 Fingerprint: 59C6 9DC7 CD4B CF2F A190 E3DE 69C5 977B F94C FE23 pgp1FSKkJuPkz.pgp Description: Firma digitale OpenPGP ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
On 8/1/19 12:26 PM, Steve Litt wrote: Anyway, if this is a suggestion to yank all nonfree out of Devuan and call it something else, that's fine with me. As a matter of fact, Devuan could slowly, selectively and judiciously make the same substitutions as the child distro. There's not really anything to yank out. Don't have a non-free repo and don't put non-free firmware on the installer isos. They probably also want to use a libre kernel. This is not a difficult task, and gnuinos already does this. If devuan ever provides a free/libre repo and release, it will be in addition to the one that provides non-free firmware for the same reasons you state below. This is something that's been discussed at meetings several times, and I think we're all in agreement. But if the suggestion is to yank out nonfree and call it Devuan, for practical purposes that would make Devuan unbootable for a lot of people. Malfunctions during boot can have causes depending on tens or hundreds of factors, many hidden away. It's a bridge too far to expect someone booting up a distro for the first time to 1) Know all his hardware, 2) Know exactly what drivers and firmware to use, 3) Know where to find those drivers and firmware, 4) Know all the commands to correctly load those drivers and firmware from a thumb drive, and 5) Have enough spare time to go through all this. Anyone who thinks otherwise should search the list archives for 'broadcom'. fsmithred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Future of gNewSense: Debian or Devuan?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:29:39 +0200 Narcis Garcia wrote: > Missatge reenviat > Assumpte: Re: [gNewSense-users] Stepping down > Data: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:45:32 +0200 > De: Sam Geeraerts > A: gnewsense-us...@nongnu.org > > On 29/07/19 17:10, Will Hill wrote: > > It would probably be easier to take non free software out of Devuan > > than it is to take Systemd out of Debian, so I'll be happy if > > gNewSense continues the easy way. > > Indeed, at least technically. If there's anyone here who knows some > Devuan people it would be interesting to hear from him/her. There's not enough context here to understand, and the attributions appear screwed up. I have no Devuan posts from Sam Geeraerts nor Will Hill, so I'm assuming this came in from somewhere else (gnewsense-us...@nongnue.org maybe?). Anyway, if this is a suggestion to yank all nonfree out of Devuan and call it something else, that's fine with me. As a matter of fact, Devuan could slowly, selectively and judiciously make the same substitutions as the child distro. But if the suggestion is to yank out nonfree and call it Devuan, for practical purposes that would make Devuan unbootable for a lot of people. Malfunctions during boot can have causes depending on tens or hundreds of factors, many hidden away. It's a bridge too far to expect someone booting up a distro for the first time to 1) Know all his hardware, 2) Know exactly what drivers and firmware to use, 3) Know where to find those drivers and firmware, 4) Know all the commands to correctly load those drivers and firmware from a thumb drive, and 5) Have enough spare time to go through all this. SteveT Steve Litt July 2019 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
