Re: [DNG] systemd files
ack ^_^ d Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On March 7, 2018 9:53 PM, wrote: > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > > On March 7, 2018 8:23 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > > > > > On 2018-03-07 14:12, ghostlands wrote: > > > > > > > > P.S.: I guess we should consider including the last two paragraphs > > > > > > > > > > above on www.devuan.org > > > > > > > > YES. This would be very helpful to people transitioning to Devuan from > > > > > > > > Debian in the name of escaping systemd. > > > > > > > > The number of lines I got from $ locate systemd was over 400, and a > > > > > > > > previous question I asked on this list about libsystemd0 simply went > > > > > > > > unanswered. I think it's crucial to create and post some boilerplate > > > > > > > > on the site about how the divorce from Debian is maintained when so > > > > > > > > many packages still come from Debian. > > > > > > > > gl > > > > > > Already done several days ago. > > > > > > https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1925 > > > > > > But really, a search on this list's archives or the forum or the > > > > > > botbot > > > > > > logs for #devuan would have answered your question. > > > > > > golinux > > > > On 2018-03-07 15:24, ghostlands wrote: > > > > When I was exploring the idea of using Devuan, I did search with > > > > engines, realizing the Devuan team probably wasn't going to rebuild > > > > every package from Debian. I had no luck arriving at any answer as > > > > plain or as clear as the one from this thread. > > > > The main suggestion is that it would be friendlier to include the > > > > blurb in an About page, or better yet, a Faq page. I see it as a > > > > crucial question. Information buried it in a forum or mailing list (or > > > > worst of all, an IRC log) isn't really making it accessible for those > > > > curious about transition. > > > > gl > > Yes, you are correct that KatolaZ provided an excellent answer. But as > > I stated before . . . this is a support question/answer not a > > pre-install one. So the forum or wiki would be the most appropriate > > place for it. If/when a FAQ page is written, it could be included there > > too > > golinux > > Dng mailing list > > Dng@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd files
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On March 7, 2018 8:23 PM, wrote: On 2018-03-07 14:12, ghostlands wrote: > > P.S.: I guess we should consider including the last two paragraphs > > > > above on www.devuan.org > > YES. This would be very helpful to people transitioning to Devuan from > > Debian in the name of escaping systemd. > > The number of lines I got from $ locate systemd was over 400, and a > > previous question I asked on this list about libsystemd0 simply went > > unanswered. I think it's crucial to create and post some boilerplate > > on the site about how the divorce from Debian is maintained when so > > many packages still come from Debian. > > gl Already done several days ago. https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1925 But really, a search on this list's archives or the forum or the botbot logs for #devuan would have answered your question. golinux On 2018-03-07 15:24, ghostlands wrote: When I was exploring the idea of using Devuan, I did search with engines, realizing the Devuan team probably wasn't going to rebuild every package from Debian. I had no luck arriving at any answer as plain or as clear as the one from this thread. The main suggestion is that it would be friendlier to include the blurb in an About page, or better yet, a Faq page. I see it as a crucial question. Information buried it in a forum or mailing list (or worst of all, an IRC log) isn't really making it accessible for those curious about transition. gl Yes, you are correct that KatolaZ provided an excellent answer. But as I stated before . . . this is a support question/answer not a pre-install one. So the forum or wiki would be the most appropriate place for it. If/when a FAQ page is written, it could be included there too golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd files
I searched my mailbox and found no mention of it either. I could have sworn I included a question about libsystemd0 in one of the threads here. Maybe it was in a discarded draft or something? Idk. gl ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On March 7, 2018 8:49 PM, KatolaZ wrote: > On Wed, Mar 07, 2018 at 03:12:35PM -0500, ghostlands wrote: > > > > P.S.: I guess we should consider including the last two paragraphs > > > > > > above on www.devuan.org > > > > YES. This would be very helpful to people transitioning to Devuan from > > Debian in the name of escaping systemd. > > > > The number of lines I got from $ locate systemd was over 400, and a > > previous question I asked on this list about libsystemd0 simply went > > unanswered. I think it's crucial to create and post some boilerplate on the > > site about how the divorce from Debian is maintained when so many packages > > still come from Debian. > > Hi, > > I could not find any mention of libsystemd0 or systemd-related files > > in any of the emails sent from ghostla...@protonmail.ch. Unless you > > are referring to emails you have sent from another email address, or > > to another mailing list? > > HND > > KatolaZ > > > > > \[ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab \] > > \[ "+. katolaz \[at\] freaknet.org \-\-\- katolaz \[at\] yahoo.it \] > > \[ @) http://kalos.mine.nu \-\-\- Devuan GNU + Linux User \] > > \[ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia \-\- GPG: 0B5F062F \] > > \[ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ \] > > Dng mailing list > > Dng@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd files
When I was exploring the idea of using Devuan, I did search with engines, realizing the Devuan team probably wasn't going to rebuild every package from Debian. I had no luck arriving at any answer as plain or as clear as the one from this thread. The main suggestion is that it would be friendlier to include the blurb in an About page, or better yet, a Faq page. I see it as a crucial question. Information buried it in a forum or mailing list (or worst of all, an IRC log) isn't really making it accessible for those curious about transition. gl Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On March 7, 2018 8:23 PM, wrote: > On 2018-03-07 14:12, ghostlands wrote: > > > > P.S.: I guess we should consider including the last two paragraphs > > > > > > above on www.devuan.org > > > > YES. This would be very helpful to people transitioning to Devuan from > > > > Debian in the name of escaping systemd. > > > > The number of lines I got from $ locate systemd was over 400, and a > > > > previous question I asked on this list about libsystemd0 simply went > > > > unanswered. I think it's crucial to create and post some boilerplate > > > > on the site about how the divorce from Debian is maintained when so > > > > many packages still come from Debian. > > > > gl > > Already done several days ago. > > https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1925 > > But really, a search on this list's archives or the forum or the botbot > > logs for #devuan would have answered your question. > > golinux > > Dng mailing list > > Dng@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd files
On Wed, Mar 07, 2018 at 03:12:35PM -0500, ghostlands wrote: > > P.S.: I guess we should consider including the last two paragraphs > > > > above on www.devuan.org > > YES. This would be very helpful to people transitioning to Devuan from Debian > in the name of escaping systemd. > > The number of lines I got from $ locate systemd was over 400, and a previous > question I asked on this list about libsystemd0 simply went unanswered. I > think it's crucial to create and post some boilerplate on the site about how > the divorce from Debian is maintained when so many packages still come from > Debian. > Hi, I could not find any mention of libsystemd0 or systemd-related files in any of the emails sent from ghostla...@protonmail.ch. Unless you are referring to emails you have sent from another email address, or to another mailing list? HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd files
On 2018-03-07 14:12, ghostlands wrote: P.S.: I guess we should consider including the last two paragraphs above on www.devuan.org YES. This would be very helpful to people transitioning to Devuan from Debian in the name of escaping systemd. The number of lines I got from $ locate systemd was over 400, and a previous question I asked on this list about libsystemd0 simply went unanswered. I think it's crucial to create and post some boilerplate on the site about how the divorce from Debian is maintained when so many packages still come from Debian. gl Already done several days ago. https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1925 But really, a search on this list's archives or the forum or the botbot logs for #devuan would have answered your question. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd files
> P.S.: I guess we should consider including the last two paragraphs > > above on www.devuan.org YES. This would be very helpful to people transitioning to Devuan from Debian in the name of escaping systemd. The number of lines I got from $ locate systemd was over 400, and a previous question I asked on this list about libsystemd0 simply went unanswered. I think it's crucial to create and post some boilerplate on the site about how the divorce from Debian is maintained when so many packages still come from Debian. gl Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On March 2, 2018 10:26 AM, KatolaZ wrote: > On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 10:04:23AM +, leloft wrote: > > > Hi devs, > > > > I am sorry to be troubling you with what may be a waste of your > > > > valuable time, but I have a couple of questions for the list. Following > > > > on from the clamav-daemon problematic uninstallation, posted here > > > > https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20180221.210210.37932ca6.en.html > > > > I have seen the following code in > > > > both /etc/logrotate.d/clamav-daemon.dpkg-old > > > > and /etc/logrotate.d/clamav-freshclam. > > > > /var/log/clamav/freshclam.log { > > > > rotate 12 > > > > weekly > > > > compress > > > > delaycompress > > > > missingok > > > > create 640 clamav adm > > > > postrotate > > > > if \[ -d /run/systemd/system \]; then > > > > systemctl -q is-active clamav-freshclam && systemctl kill > > > > --signal=SIGHUP clamav-freshclam || true else > > > > /etc/init.d/clamav-freshclam reload-log > /dev/null || true > > > > fi > > > > endscript > > > > } > > > > But this code is not in any of the 16 other logrotate files in this > > > > folder. I do not fully understand it, and so my first > > > > question is are there any suggestions why it is there and why isn't it > > > > necessary in the other files? I ask because I have uncovered an alarming > > > > number of systemd files throughout the computer on which I installed the > > > > clamav-daemon, and am concerned that there has been a bit of > > > > liberty-taking by pro-systemd 'agendaware'. > > Hi, > > It's probably just that the upstream package maintainer has made the > > assumption that Debian should only run systemd, and nothing else > > ever. You might call it pro-systemd 'agendaware', if you like. It just > > seems to have become a shared habit of many (but not all) > > maintainers. That's why we are here, after all... > > > I issued $locate systemd > > > > and got 200 lines of output, including > > > > /etc/systemd/system/* (23 files) > > > > /lib/systemd/system/* (60 files) > > > > /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd.so.0 (and 0.17.0) > > > > /usr/lib/systemd (25 files) > > > > /usr/bin/deb-systemd-helper ((and deb-systemd-invoke) > > > > /var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/* (68 files) > > > > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd):amd64* (5 files) > > > > This seems a lot to me. Please could you confirm that an ascii > > > > installation should contain 200 systemd files as part of a normal > > > > ascii installation. Sorry to trouble you if these are trivial > > > > questions, but they feel far from that. > > > > Many thanks > > > > leloft > > Most of those "alarming" files are just systemd units files, put there > > by daemons/packages/utilities who "also" support systemd in a way or > > another. So they are not alarming but just totally harmless if you > > don't have a running systemd as PID 1, since only systemd understands > > and can run them. It would be totally useless (and utterly > > stupid IMHO) to fork, rebuild, and maintain a few more hundred > > packages only because they happen to provide a systemd unit file for > > those systems where systemd is used. > > libsystemd0 is used by some daemons to verify if systemd is running or > > not. If it's not, libsystemd is totally harmless. > > HND > > KatolaZ > > P.S.: I guess we should consider including the last two paragraphs > > above on www.devuan.org, or put it in the mailing list signature... > > > - > > \[ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab \] > > \[ "+. katolaz \[at\] freaknet.or
Re: [DNG] systemd files
On Fri, 2 Mar 2018 10:26:39 + KatolaZ wrote: > On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 10:04:23AM +, leloft wrote: > > Hi devs, > > I am sorry to be troubling you with what may be a waste of your > > valuable time, but I have a couple of questions for the list. > > Following on from the clamav-daemon problematic uninstallation, > > posted here > > https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20180221.210210.37932ca6.en.html > > I have seen the following code in > > both /etc/logrotate.d/clamav-daemon.dpkg-old > > and /etc/logrotate.d/clamav-freshclam. > > > > /var/log/clamav/freshclam.log { > > rotate 12 > > weekly > > compress > > delaycompress > > missingok > > create 640 clamav adm > > postrotate > > if [ -d /run/systemd/system ]; then > > systemctl -q is-active clamav-freshclam && systemctl kill > > --signal=SIGHUP clamav-freshclam || true else > > /etc/init.d/clamav-freshclam reload-log > /dev/null || true > > fi > > endscript > > } > > > > But this code is not in any of the 16 other logrotate files in this > > folder. I do not fully understand it, and so my first > > question is are there any suggestions why it is there and why isn't > > it necessary in the other files? I ask because I have uncovered an > > alarming number of systemd files throughout the computer on which I > > installed the clamav-daemon, and am concerned that there has been a > > bit of liberty-taking by pro-systemd 'agendaware'. > > Hi, > > It's probably just that the upstream package maintainer has made the > assumption that Debian should only run systemd, and nothing else > ever. You might call it pro-systemd 'agendaware', if you like. "Agendaware" is the best neologism I've heard in the past 2 years. It tells it like it is. SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd files
On 2018-03-02 04:55, Antony Stone wrote: On Friday 02 March 2018 at 11:26:39, KatolaZ wrote: Most of those "alarming" files are just systemd units files, put there by daemons/packages/utilities who "also" support systemd in a way or another. So they are not alarming but just *totally* *harmless* if you don't have a running systemd as PID 1, since only systemd understands and can run them. It would be *totally* *useless* (and utterly *stupid* IMHO) to fork, rebuild, and maintain a few more hundred packages only because they happen to provide a systemd unit file for those systems where systemd is used. libsystemd0 is used by some daemons to verify if systemd is running or not. If it's not, libsystemd is *totally* *harmless*. HND KatolaZ P.S.: I guess we should consider including the last two paragraphs above on www.devuan.org, or put it in the mailing list signature... Good idea, I think (on the website, anyway; we don't want something that long on every list posting). Antony. I'm not so sure that the website is an appropriate place for that information. Why? Questions about the presence libsystemd0 would only arise after Devuan is installed so it is more of a support question. A version of of those paras could certainly be on the forum. And including that info in the release notes might also be a good idea. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd files
On Friday 02 March 2018 at 11:26:39, KatolaZ wrote: > Most of those "alarming" files are just systemd units files, put there > by daemons/packages/utilities who "also" support systemd in a way or > another. So they are not alarming but just *totally* *harmless* if you > don't have a running systemd as PID 1, since only systemd understands > and can run them. It would be *totally* *useless* (and utterly > *stupid* IMHO) to fork, rebuild, and maintain a few more hundred > packages only because they happen to provide a systemd unit file for > those systems where systemd is used. > > libsystemd0 is used by some daemons to verify if systemd is running or > not. If it's not, libsystemd is *totally* *harmless*. > > HND > > KatolaZ > > P.S.: I guess we should consider including the last two paragraphs > above on www.devuan.org, or put it in the mailing list signature... Good idea, I think (on the website, anyway; we don't want something that long on every list posting). Antony. -- When you find yourself arguing with an idiot, you should first of all make sure that the other person isn't doing the same thing. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd files
Le 02/03/2018 à 11:04, leloft a écrit : /var/log/clamav/freshclam.log { rotate 12 weekly compress delaycompress missingok create 640 clamav adm postrotate if [ -d /run/systemd/system ]; then systemctl -q is-active clamav-freshclam && systemctl kill --signal=SIGHUP clamav-freshclam || true else /etc/init.d/clamav-freshclam reload-log > /dev/null || true fi endscript } The section starting at "postrotate" and ending at "endscript" is a script to execute after the "rotation" of the log files. It seems the intention is to send the SIGHUP signal to clamav-freshclam. Clearly, clamav-freshclean needs to be told to re-open its log file when it has been brutally closed by logrotate. When the classical RC scripts are installed, the initscript is invoked, rather than directly sending the signal, but, no doubt, it will send the signal. Since you haven't systemd installed, you can leave the script as is. If you feel nervous about your script checking for a non-existing file whose name contains the word "systemd", you can remove the conditional logic and keep unconditionnally. /etc/init.d/clamav-freshclam reload-log > /dev/null || true Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd files
On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 10:26:39AM +, KatolaZ wrote: [cut] > > create 640 clamav adm > > postrotate > > if [ -d /run/systemd/system ]; then > > systemctl -q is-active clamav-freshclam && systemctl kill > > --signal=SIGHUP clamav-freshclam || true else > > /etc/init.d/clamav-freshclam reload-log > /dev/null || true > > fi > > endscript > > } > > > > But this code is not in any of the 16 other logrotate files in this > > folder. I do not fully understand it, and so my first > > question is are there any suggestions why it is there and why isn't it > > necessary in the other files? I ask because I have uncovered an alarming > > number of systemd files throughout the computer on which I installed the > > clamav-daemon, and am concerned that there has been a bit of > > liberty-taking by pro-systemd 'agendaware'. > > Hi, > > It's probably just that the upstream package maintainer has made the > assumption that Debian should only run systemd, and nothing else > ever. You might call it pro-systemd 'agendaware', if you like. It just > seems to have become a shared habit of many (but not all) > maintainers. That's why we are here, after all... Sorry, I must correct my statement above: the script leloft posted is correct, and works if either systemd or something else is used as PID 1. This is evident from the if-else block, which restarts the clamav service usinf either systemd or the corresponding sysvinit script. This is luckily a case in which the maintainer has not been assimilated, yet :) Please accept my apologies KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd files
On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 10:04:23AM +, leloft wrote: > Hi devs, > I am sorry to be troubling you with what may be a waste of your > valuable time, but I have a couple of questions for the list. Following > on from the clamav-daemon problematic uninstallation, posted here > https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20180221.210210.37932ca6.en.html > I have seen the following code in > both /etc/logrotate.d/clamav-daemon.dpkg-old > and /etc/logrotate.d/clamav-freshclam. > > /var/log/clamav/freshclam.log { > rotate 12 > weekly > compress > delaycompress > missingok > create 640 clamav adm > postrotate > if [ -d /run/systemd/system ]; then > systemctl -q is-active clamav-freshclam && systemctl kill > --signal=SIGHUP clamav-freshclam || true else > /etc/init.d/clamav-freshclam reload-log > /dev/null || true > fi > endscript > } > > But this code is not in any of the 16 other logrotate files in this > folder. I do not fully understand it, and so my first > question is are there any suggestions why it is there and why isn't it > necessary in the other files? I ask because I have uncovered an alarming > number of systemd files throughout the computer on which I installed the > clamav-daemon, and am concerned that there has been a bit of > liberty-taking by pro-systemd 'agendaware'. Hi, It's probably just that the upstream package maintainer has made the assumption that Debian should only run systemd, and nothing else ever. You might call it pro-systemd 'agendaware', if you like. It just seems to have become a shared habit of many (but not all) maintainers. That's why we are here, after all... > > I issued $locate systemd > and got 200 lines of output, including > /etc/systemd/system/* (23 files) > /lib/systemd/system/* (60 files) > /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd.so.0 (and 0.17.0) > /usr/lib/systemd (25 files) > /usr/bin/deb-systemd-helper ((and deb-systemd-invoke) > /var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/* (68 files) > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd):amd64* (5 files) > > This seems a lot to me. Please could you confirm that an ascii > installation should contain 200 systemd files as part of a normal > ascii installation. Sorry to trouble you if these are trivial > questions, but they feel far from that. > Many thanks > leloft Most of those "alarming" files are just systemd units files, put there by daemons/packages/utilities who "also" support systemd in a way or another. So they are not alarming but just *totally* *harmless* if you don't have a running systemd as PID 1, since only systemd understands and can run them. It would be *totally* *useless* (and utterly *stupid* IMHO) to fork, rebuild, and maintain a few more hundred packages only because they happen to provide a systemd unit file for those systems where systemd is used. libsystemd0 is used by some daemons to verify if systemd is running or not. If it's not, libsystemd is *totally* *harmless*. HND KatolaZ P.S.: I guess we should consider including the last two paragraphs above on www.devuan.org, or put it in the mailing list signature... -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng