Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid
Gliding in general really is a mess with brake fluid types. Schemp hirth and grob gliders all use DOT 4 AUTO, Schliecher all use AVIATION FLUID. StOCk standard dimona h36 use DOT 4. I am uncertain re hk36 but would be listed in manual. I encourage owners, to clearly label at filler cam the brake fluid being used. I have been reliability told by now, two LAMEs you can use DEXTRON AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID if aviation fluid is not available. I do know ALL TOYOTA cars use DOT 3 and should not have DOT 4 the now much more common automotive brake fluid. A friend I know converted his glider trailers to aviation fluid as will not take in water and always, work when you go to use the trailer. When I order brake parts from Tost I must be very careful to get correct seals. Susanne Dupont who runs Tost is, well aware of the issues, and flys, a motorglider. My 2c woryh Ian McPhee 0428847642 Box 657 Byron Bay NSW 2481 On Tue, 5 Jan. 2021, 17:08 Rob Thompson, wrote: > Yep, fuel cap is from a BMW 2002. > > Master Cylinder is a Cleveland 10-5 > > https://aircraftpartsandsalvage.com/aircraft-parts/airframe/general-airframe/landing-gear/wheels-and-brakes/cleveland-brake-master-cylinder-10-5-2/ > > Make sure you replace the park brake shaft seals at the same time as the > cylinder seals. > > Highly likely that you could modify the mounts to accommodate a > motorcycle master cylinder at a tenth of the price! > > regards > Rob > > Rob Thompson > 0429 493 828 > > > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 2:22 PM Michael Stockhill wrote: > >> It has been too long to be definitive but I recall researching this years >> back. Nearly poditive that I determined the Cleveland O rings are >> compstible with DOT 3. And I can be corrected, but I recall that the master >> cylinder is motorcycle. BMW, like the gas cap and battery. >> >> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 6:39 PM Ian Williams wrote: >> >>> Gidday Kurt, >>> I may be able to shed some light there. >>> Not sure if yr H36 is ex Thai but military tend to ignore any >>> manufacturers type certificate, Plus the normal brake fluid they use is >>> the aircraft stuff. >>> So dot4 is of course automotive. >>> It does sound as if U will need to replace all the seals. As Rob said >>> the brakes themselves are Cleveland replacement seals should be easy to >>> get. Not sure about the master cyl tho >>> >>> Best regards >>> Ian Williams >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> > On 5/01/2021, at 2:17 PM, Kurt Redinbaugh >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question. >>> > I am a bit confused though... >>> > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued >>> airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and >>> that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it >>> when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen. >>> Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The >>> airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is >>> completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT >>> fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have >>> ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed >>> seal in the caliper. >>> > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an >>> explanation for this seeming contradiction? >>> > As always thanks for your support >>> > Kurt >>> >>> >>> - >>> You are subscribed to the Dimona Owners Group mailing list. >>> This list is archived in public. http://waikeriegliding.com/dog/ >>> To unsubscribe, send email to: dog-unsubscr...@lists.riverland.net.au >>> >>>
Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid
Yep, fuel cap is from a BMW 2002. Master Cylinder is a Cleveland 10-5 https://aircraftpartsandsalvage.com/aircraft-parts/airframe/general-airframe/landing-gear/wheels-and-brakes/cleveland-brake-master-cylinder-10-5-2/ Make sure you replace the park brake shaft seals at the same time as the cylinder seals. Highly likely that you could modify the mounts to accommodate a motorcycle master cylinder at a tenth of the price! regards Rob Rob Thompson 0429 493 828 On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 2:22 PM Michael Stockhill wrote: > It has been too long to be definitive but I recall researching this years > back. Nearly poditive that I determined the Cleveland O rings are > compstible with DOT 3. And I can be corrected, but I recall that the master > cylinder is motorcycle. BMW, like the gas cap and battery. > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 6:39 PM Ian Williams wrote: > >> Gidday Kurt, >> I may be able to shed some light there. >> Not sure if yr H36 is ex Thai but military tend to ignore any >> manufacturers type certificate, Plus the normal brake fluid they use is >> the aircraft stuff. >> So dot4 is of course automotive. >> It does sound as if U will need to replace all the seals. As Rob said >> the brakes themselves are Cleveland replacement seals should be easy to >> get. Not sure about the master cyl tho >> >> Best regards >> Ian Williams >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On 5/01/2021, at 2:17 PM, Kurt Redinbaugh >> wrote: >> > >> > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question. >> > I am a bit confused though... >> > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued >> airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and >> that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it >> when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen. >> Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The >> airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is >> completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT >> fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have >> ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed >> seal in the caliper. >> > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an >> explanation for this seeming contradiction? >> > As always thanks for your support >> > Kurt >> >> >> - >> You are subscribed to the Dimona Owners Group mailing list. >> This list is archived in public. http://waikeriegliding.com/dog/ >> To unsubscribe, send email to: dog-unsubscr...@lists.riverland.net.au >> >>
Re: [DOG mailing list] Fwd: Fuel Drain
hi kurt. during my annual inspection with the wings off i have made a beam with light grade RHS steel or patio tube as we call it here. i have drilled two holes in the center to line up with the main wing pins (ie the ones that you put that red safety pin through behind pilots' backrest not the ones the the wings are suspended from when derigged). i tie the tail down because the c of g at that point means that it will stand on its nose easily. i then slide the rhs through the main spar carry through, slide the pins into place and insert the safety pin and lift and support from the ends (if needed)that way you can remove the entire main gear if needed(???) but just to reiterate- DO NOT LIFT WITH OUT TYING THE TAIL DOWN AND DO NOT LIFT ON THE CARRY THROUGH. LIFT ONLY ON THE MAIN PINS. the carry though is only 2 or three layers of glass thick. lifting from there will rapidly cause an inverted recurve to your smile and darken your overall view of the world. bushing of the holes in the rhs is a nice touch so as not to burr the main pins. but as rob says if the wings are on the job is a bit easier. cheers ric From: dog@lists.riverland.net.au on behalf of Kurt Redinbaugh Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 1:18 AM To: dog@lists.riverland.net.au Subject: [DOG mailing list] Fwd: Fuel Drain As a follow-up I finally was able to remove the fuel drain. It is marked Curtis 1550. I have ordered two from SKY GEEK at about $17 each. Now in the meantime I am trying to figure out the process for jacking up and removing the wheel and brake assembly so I can resolve a leaking caliper. Kurt -- Forwarded message - From: Kurt Redinbaugh mailto:redinbau...@gmail.com>> Date: Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 6:50 PM Subject: Fuel Drain To: mailto:dog@lists.riverland.net.au>> The fuel drain on the underside of #3660 is weeping. Does anyone have experience with replacing the drain valve as regards either manufacturers part number or the specification of thread size for a replacement? Are there any surprises when I go to remove the existing valve and install the new one? Many thanks Kurt
Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid
It has been too long to be definitive but I recall researching this years back. Nearly poditive that I determined the Cleveland O rings are compstible with DOT 3. And I can be corrected, but I recall that the master cylinder is motorcycle. BMW, like the gas cap and battery. On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 6:39 PM Ian Williams wrote: > Gidday Kurt, > I may be able to shed some light there. > Not sure if yr H36 is ex Thai but military tend to ignore any > manufacturers type certificate, Plus the normal brake fluid they use is > the aircraft stuff. > So dot4 is of course automotive. > It does sound as if U will need to replace all the seals. As Rob said > the brakes themselves are Cleveland replacement seals should be easy to > get. Not sure about the master cyl tho > > Best regards > Ian Williams > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 5/01/2021, at 2:17 PM, Kurt Redinbaugh wrote: > > > > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question. > > I am a bit confused though... > > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued > airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and > that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it > when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen. > Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The > airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is > completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT > fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have > ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed > seal in the caliper. > > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an > explanation for this seeming contradiction? > > As always thanks for your support > > Kurt > > > - > You are subscribed to the Dimona Owners Group mailing list. > This list is archived in public. http://waikeriegliding.com/dog/ > To unsubscribe, send email to: dog-unsubscr...@lists.riverland.net.au > >
Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid
Gidday Kurt, I may be able to shed some light there. Not sure if yr H36 is ex Thai but military tend to ignore any manufacturers type certificate, Plus the normal brake fluid they use is the aircraft stuff. So dot4 is of course automotive. It does sound as if U will need to replace all the seals. As Rob said the brakes themselves are Cleveland replacement seals should be easy to get. Not sure about the master cyl tho Best regards Ian Williams Sent from my iPhone > On 5/01/2021, at 2:17 PM, Kurt Redinbaugh wrote: > > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question. > I am a bit confused though... > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued airworthiness" > it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and that MIL-5606 is > NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it when I put S/N 3660 > back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen. Last week I had a leak > that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The airplane is tied down on the > ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is completely covered. The weather has > been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT fluid I used was fresh and stored in > a factory sealed container. I have ordered O ring number 101-02300 from > Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed seal in the caliper. > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an > explanation for this seeming contradiction? > As always thanks for your support > Kurt - You are subscribed to the Dimona Owners Group mailing list. This list is archived in public. http://waikeriegliding.com/dog/ To unsubscribe, send email to: dog-unsubscr...@lists.riverland.net.au
Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid
In the ex Thai Air Force Dimonas we have always used petroleum based hydraulic fluid and we buy the seals from a local aircraft mechanic. The Thais may have changed the fluids and seals so as to be standard with their other aircraft. Or, more likely they put the wrong fluid in and created a big mess. I think (but *NOT s*ure) that Michael is correct that the standard aircraft Cleveland seals can cope with DOT 3 as well as hydraulic fluid. Once the wrong fluid has been added the system would need a big flush and all seals replaced. regards Rob Rob Thompson 0429 493 828 On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 12:18 PM Kurt Redinbaugh wrote: > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question. > I am a bit confused though... > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued > airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and > that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it > when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen. > Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The > airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is > completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT > fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have > ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed > seal in the caliper. > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an > explanation for this seeming contradiction? > As always thanks for your support > Kurt >
Re: [DOG mailing list] Brake fluid
Rob probably has greater experience on this. For what it is worth: The Cleveland O rings are compatible with DOT3 in my experience. Seems like I change them out every 8 years or so, with no leaks. I have been led to believe that the seals/O rings in the master cylinder are not compatible with 5606. I defer to the service recommendations. On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 5:18 PM Kurt Redinbaugh wrote: > Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question. > I am a bit confused though... > On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued > airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and > that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it > when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen. > Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The > airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is > completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT > fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have > ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed > seal in the caliper. > I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an > explanation for this seeming contradiction? > As always thanks for your support > Kurt >
[DOG mailing list] Brake fluid
Thank You Rob for your prompt response on my brake caliper question. I am a bit confused though... On pp44 of the HOFFMANN AIRCRAFT "instructions for continued airworthiness" it emphatically states that DOT 3 brake fluid is used and that MIL-5606 is NOT to be used. My brake reservoir had a red tint to it when I put S/N 3660 back into service after 12 years as a hangar queen. Last week I had a leak that drained the reservoir full of DOT 3. The airplane is tied down on the ramp at the Reno-Stead airfield and is completely covered. The weather has been freeze-thaw cycles lately. The DOT fluid I used was fresh and stored in a factory sealed container. I have ordered O ring number 101-02300 from Aircraft Spruce to replace the failed seal in the caliper. I have seen in the DOG that MIL-5606 fluid is to be used. Is there an explanation for this seeming contradiction? As always thanks for your support Kurt
Re: [DOG mailing list] Backup electronic ignition on Limbach 2000 / Dimona
If you buy the Great Plains cylinder heads, they will machine them to the right cylinder size but you will have to adjust the size of the combustion chamber to get the correct compression ratio. *Please Note: I have not used these Great Plains heads and in most countries you will have to get "Experimental" registration approval to legally use them. * regards Rob Rob Thompson 0429 493 828 On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 7:11 AM Jarek Steliga wrote: > Rob, > > Thank you. > > Regards > Jarek > > > > On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 22:46, Rob Thompson wrote: > >> Hi Jarek, >> The rules and regulations are supposed to stop people doing stupid things >> but they also stop people doing sensible things. >> >> Great Plains Aircraft sell dual ignition heads >> http://www.greatplainsas.com/sccylheads.html >> >> If you buy these you can always put your Limbach heads back on if you >> want to turn it back into a "certified" motor. >> >> >> regards >> Rob >> >> Rob Thompson >> 0429 493 828 >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 7:18 AM Jarek Steliga >> wrote: >> >>> Rob, >>> >>> Question is, is it better to have a certified Limbach engine (which has >>> not been modernized for 50 years), or to introduce a second ignition system >>> and be 99% sure that in a critical situation it will save your life. >>> It is strange that such an engine was certified at the time. >>> There is no problem with drilling, as you can see. There are already >>> plants that do it on request, but only in the US. >>> It is strange that Peter Limbach himself or his successors have not >>> introduced this system to their product so far. >>> >>> Generally, SLICK has a mandatory service of 250h / 2 years, but mine >>> was about 40h / 2 years old and the rotor had to be replaced, the engine >>> had already been working badly, so having a secondary ignition system you >>> can feel more confident by 99%. >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> Jarek >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 18:11, Jarek Steliga >>> wrote: >>> Thank you. Looks like none of these has ever been tried by members of this mailing list. Regards Jarek On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 04:19, Michael Stockhill wrote: > Thanks, Rob, > > I knew that once. Sod old age. > > M > > On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, 5:27 PM Rob Thompson > wrote: > >> Limbach requires a 250 hour magneto inspection on >> single ignition motors. >> >> https://limflug.de/en/support/downloads.php?type=technicalBulletins=905.700.020.305.pdf=download >> >> regards >> Rob >> >> Rob Thompson >> 0429 493 828 >> (Please note that my new email address is amessageto...@gmail.com) >> >> >> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 12:05 PM Michael Stockhill >> wrote: >> >>> While most mags have a 500 hour inspection interval, with the >>> Limbach mag being direct drive, and firing with wasted spark, I believe >>> it >>> has some interesting environmental issues. It turns much faster than >>> other >>> applications and fires more frequently. After seeing my last mag at 250 >>> hours, internally it looked more like a 500 hour mag to me. Hence, I >>> have >>> decided on that inspection/overhaul interval. Having only one is a good >>> incentive. >>> >>> Does anyone else have any observations or thoughts on this? >>> >>> Michael Stockhill >>> Polson, MT >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, 4:31 PM Rob Thompson >>> wrote: >>> There are a number of secondary ignition systems designed for Aero VW motors. See http://www.greatplainsas.com/scsecign.html The electronics are easy and cheap. The difficult bit is that you have to drill the bottom spark plug holes precisely so that you can get a wrench between the pushrod tubes. If you go ahead, get your engineering company to practice on an old set of heads. This modification will turn your Limbach L2000 into an uncertified motor unless you can get a suitable engineering approval. regards Rob Rob Thompson 0429 493 828 On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 11:36 PM Jarek Steliga < jarekstel...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello and all the best in 2021! > > Dimona with the Limbach L2000 engine does not have a second > ignition system, because the manufacturer of these engines for unknown > reasons did not introduce such a safety system into production. > Do you believe a modification now is possible? Or maybe some of > you have already made such a modification with a Limbach L2000 engine > equipped with one SLICK 4330 type magneto in your bird. > In the US it is a popular solution and even all companies offer > ready-made kits for such modification, which is
Re: [DOG mailing list] Backup electronic ignition on Limbach 2000 / Dimona
Rob, Thank you. Regards Jarek On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 22:46, Rob Thompson wrote: > Hi Jarek, > The rules and regulations are supposed to stop people doing stupid things > but they also stop people doing sensible things. > > Great Plains Aircraft sell dual ignition heads > http://www.greatplainsas.com/sccylheads.html > > If you buy these you can always put your Limbach heads back on if you want > to turn it back into a "certified" motor. > > > regards > Rob > > Rob Thompson > 0429 493 828 > > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 7:18 AM Jarek Steliga > wrote: > >> Rob, >> >> Question is, is it better to have a certified Limbach engine (which has >> not been modernized for 50 years), or to introduce a second ignition system >> and be 99% sure that in a critical situation it will save your life. >> It is strange that such an engine was certified at the time. >> There is no problem with drilling, as you can see. There are already >> plants that do it on request, but only in the US. >> It is strange that Peter Limbach himself or his successors have not >> introduced this system to their product so far. >> >> Generally, SLICK has a mandatory service of 250h / 2 years, but mine was >> about 40h / 2 years old and the rotor had to be replaced, the engine had >> already been working badly, so having a secondary ignition system you can >> feel more confident by 99%. >> >> >> Regards >> Jarek >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 18:11, Jarek Steliga >> wrote: >> >>> Thank you. Looks like none of these has ever been tried by members of >>> this mailing list. >>> >>> Regards >>> Jarek >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 04:19, Michael Stockhill wrote: >>> Thanks, Rob, I knew that once. Sod old age. M On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, 5:27 PM Rob Thompson wrote: > Limbach requires a 250 hour magneto inspection on > single ignition motors. > > https://limflug.de/en/support/downloads.php?type=technicalBulletins=905.700.020.305.pdf=download > > regards > Rob > > Rob Thompson > 0429 493 828 > (Please note that my new email address is amessageto...@gmail.com) > > > On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 12:05 PM Michael Stockhill > wrote: > >> While most mags have a 500 hour inspection interval, with the Limbach >> mag being direct drive, and firing with wasted spark, I believe it has >> some >> interesting environmental issues. It turns much faster than other >> applications and fires more frequently. After seeing my last mag at 250 >> hours, internally it looked more like a 500 hour mag to me. Hence, I >> have >> decided on that inspection/overhaul interval. Having only one is a good >> incentive. >> >> Does anyone else have any observations or thoughts on this? >> >> Michael Stockhill >> Polson, MT >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, 4:31 PM Rob Thompson >> wrote: >> >>> There are a number of secondary ignition systems designed for Aero >>> VW motors. See http://www.greatplainsas.com/scsecign.html >>> The electronics are easy and cheap. >>> The difficult bit is that you have to drill the bottom spark plug >>> holes precisely so that you can get a wrench between the pushrod tubes. >>> If >>> you go ahead, get your engineering company to practice on an old set of >>> heads. >>> This modification will turn your Limbach L2000 into an uncertified >>> motor unless you can get a suitable engineering approval. >>> regards >>> Rob >>> >>> Rob Thompson >>> 0429 493 828 >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 11:36 PM Jarek Steliga < >>> jarekstel...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hello and all the best in 2021! Dimona with the Limbach L2000 engine does not have a second ignition system, because the manufacturer of these engines for unknown reasons did not introduce such a safety system into production. Do you believe a modification now is possible? Or maybe some of you have already made such a modification with a Limbach L2000 engine equipped with one SLICK 4330 type magneto in your bird. In the US it is a popular solution and even all companies offer ready-made kits for such modification, which is definitely additional safety during the flight. https://www.kitplanes.com/electronic-ignitions-2/ Best regards Jarek
