Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
Hi Clive, I am afraid I might upset things by saying 'If he has Mindstorm then stay with that'. The first things you need to learn (control flow, data ffow and decision making) are all in it with the added bonus that all the control structures are automatically closed correctly. This last sentence might not make much sense to you but it doesn't need to with Mindstorm, but an understanding will be needed with any text-based language. In addition any 'normal' language will also mean that he needs to learn about variables and to use the correct syntax before he can write anything. Any other language will give a much steeper learning curve with many more traps to fall into. Mindstorm makes a great paddling pool before he attempts the swimming pool of Python etc. Once he has mastered Mindstorm then move onto Python, until then there is no point. Having said all this I must admit that I have had little experience of Mindstorm, but I have been using LabVIEW, of which Mindstorm is a cut down version, professionally for five years. I have also great experience with several 'normal' languages. Has he tried the Mindstorm NXT forums (eg http://messageboards.lego.com/en-US/showforum.aspx?ForumID=1421 ) when he gets stuck? Kevin Giles -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On 15/09/2012 22:00, Peter Washington wrote: On 15 September 2012 20:07, Peter Merchant wrote: On 15/09/12 19:33, Adrian Warman wrote: I think Leo's recommendation is Python. In any event, I would also recommend it. It's platform-agnostic, it's used by big companies (Google, anyone?), it can be run in a simple, interpreter-like way (single line Basic, anyone?), it supports object-oriented programming, there's lots of documentation and examples freely available,... Adrian Excellent reasons Adrian. I always have to ask, what do you want to do with it? If you are wanting to access databases you would use a different language than if you wanted to do machine control. Because the raspberry pi uses Python, I am working with it to control the basic I/O functions, but not yet at doing anything with USB devices. My python references are ' Byte of Python', and 'Dive into Python'. I like interpretive languages like Basic, Forth and Python for learning. I believe that there is an editor from which you can run your python and then drop back to the editor, but I don't know what it is. It might be Notepad++ in a W$ environment. Notepad++ and Kate both display text in different colours depending on their function. Peter M. Peter M. Personally I would have to agre that Python is a good choice for starting learning about software because it encourages good practices and it can actually take you a very long way. I use Scite to edit my Python because it is itself cross platform, it provides syntax colouring and you can compile / interpret your code from the Editor and if there is an error it will highlight the line with the error. I have Notepad++ on the work laptop that I'm writing on now and I've just looked for Compilation / Interpretation tools and I couldn't find any, (but I only looked quite quickly). Good luck to your grandson Clive. And Perl is also platform agnostic. Phil. -- P.Lane CEO Lectrics Ltd Poole Dorset -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On 15/09/2012 22:00, Peter Washington wrote: On 15 September 2012 20:07, Peter Merchant wrote: On 15/09/12 19:33, Adrian Warman wrote: I think Leo's recommendation is Python. In any event, I would also recommend it. It's platform-agnostic, it's used by big companies (Google, anyone?), it can be run in a simple, interpreter-like way (single line Basic, anyone?), it supports object-oriented programming, there's lots of documentation and examples freely available,... Adrian Excellent reasons Adrian. I always have to ask, what do you want to do with it? If you are wanting to access databases you would use a different language than if you wanted to do machine control. Because the raspberry pi uses Python, I am working with it to control the basic I/O functions, but not yet at doing anything with USB devices. My python references are ' Byte of Python', and 'Dive into Python'. I like interpretive languages like Basic, Forth and Python for learning. I believe that there is an editor from which you can run your python and then drop back to the editor, but I don't know what it is. It might be Notepad++ in a W$ environment. Notepad++ and Kate both display text in different colours depending on their function. Peter M. Peter M. Personally I would have to agre that Python is a good choice for starting learning about software because it encourages good practices and it can actually take you a very long way. I use Scite to edit my Python because it is itself cross platform, it provides syntax colouring and you can compile / interpret your code from the Editor and if there is an error it will highlight the line with the error. I have Notepad++ on the work laptop that I'm writing on now and I've just looked for Compilation / Interpretation tools and I couldn't find any, (but I only looked quite quickly). Good luck to your grandson Clive. The reason I say Perl is because I see so many vacanices for LAMP developers, so more of an interesting career than 'merely' programming, leading into some good sys' admin too. more options, more bucks. Phil. -- P.Lane CEO Lectrics Ltd Poole Dorset -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On 15/09/2012 13:22, cawi...@talktalk.net wrote: Hi All My 12 year old grandson has asked 'Which is the best Programming Language to learn?' - over to you all!! Please remember he is 12 years old and has just started senior school here in Switzerland. I've suggested he ought to lean a cross platform language but I don't know which one. (C, C++, Python, Ruby, Jarva?) He has a windows 98 laptop and a MAC at home and I assume a Windows macine at school. At the moment he is learning to touch type (at school) and uses Libre Office and Firefox at home. He is also interested to programme his Lego Mindstorm but does not have anyone to support him and finds it frustrating when stuck. Any suggestions please? -- *Clive Wills* /Powered by Linux & Open Source Software/// -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue Perl, Perl and more Perl...then Python. -- P.Lane CEO Lectrics Ltd Poole Dorset -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On 15 September 2012 20:07, Peter Merchant wrote: > On 15/09/12 19:33, Adrian Warman wrote: >> >> I think Leo's recommendation is Python. >> >> In any event, I would also recommend it. It's platform-agnostic, it's >> used by big companies (Google, anyone?), it can be run in a simple, >> interpreter-like way (single line Basic, anyone?), it supports >> object-oriented programming, there's lots of documentation and >> examples freely available,... >> >> Adrian >> > Excellent reasons Adrian. I always have to ask, what do you want to do with > it? If you are wanting to access databases you would use a different > language than if you wanted to do machine control. Because the raspberry pi > uses Python, I am working with it to control the basic I/O functions, but > not yet at doing anything with USB devices. > > My python references are ' Byte of Python', and 'Dive into Python'. > > I like interpretive languages like Basic, Forth and Python for learning. > > I believe that there is an editor from which you can run your python and > then drop back to the editor, but I don't know what it is. It might be > Notepad++ in a W$ environment. > > Notepad++ and Kate both display text in different colours depending on their > function. > > Peter M. > > Peter M. Personally I would have to agre that Python is a good choice for starting learning about software because it encourages good practices and it can actually take you a very long way. I use Scite to edit my Python because it is itself cross platform, it provides syntax colouring and you can compile / interpret your code from the Editor and if there is an error it will highlight the line with the error. I have Notepad++ on the work laptop that I'm writing on now and I've just looked for Compilation / Interpretation tools and I couldn't find any, (but I only looked quite quickly). Good luck to your grandson Clive. -- Cheers Peter -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On 15/09/12 19:33, Adrian Warman wrote: I think Leo's recommendation is Python. In any event, I would also recommend it. It's platform-agnostic, it's used by big companies (Google, anyone?), it can be run in a simple, interpreter-like way (single line Basic, anyone?), it supports object-oriented programming, there's lots of documentation and examples freely available,... Adrian Excellent reasons Adrian. I always have to ask, what do you want to do with it? If you are wanting to access databases you would use a different language than if you wanted to do machine control. Because the raspberry pi uses Python, I am working with it to control the basic I/O functions, but not yet at doing anything with USB devices. My python references are ' Byte of Python', and 'Dive into Python'. I like interpretive languages like Basic, Forth and Python for learning. I believe that there is an editor from which you can run your python and then drop back to the editor, but I don't know what it is. It might be Notepad++ in a W$ environment. Notepad++ and Kate both display text in different colours depending on their function. Peter M. Peter M. -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
I think Leo's recommendation is Python. In any event, I would also recommend it. It's platform-agnostic, it's used by big companies (Google, anyone?), it can be run in a simple, interpreter-like way (single line Basic, anyone?), it supports object-oriented programming, there's lots of documentation and examples freely available,... Adrian On 15 September 2012 15:01, Andrew Drapper wrote: > *Leo Laporte*, (The Tech Guy) always recommends a programming language that > will not take you very far, but lays VERY good foundations for good habits > of programming that make moving on to more complicated languages easier. > Does anyone know what this is. I keep saying every time he mentions it... > "I must remember that for my children" But you know... > > Andrew Drapper > > > > > On 15 September 2012 13:22, wrote: > >> Hi All >> >> My 12 year old grandson has asked 'Which is the best Programming Language >> to learn?' - over to you all!! >> >> Please remember he is 12 years old and has just started senior school here >> in Switzerland. I've suggested he ought to lean a cross platform language >> but I don't know which one. (C, C++, Python, Ruby, Jarva?) >> He has a windows 98 laptop and a MAC at home and I assume a Windows macine >> at school. >> At the moment he is learning to touch type (at school) and uses Libre >> Office and Firefox at home. He is also interested to programme his Lego >> Mindstorm but does not have anyone to support him and finds it frustrating >> when stuck. >> >> Any suggestions please? >> >> -- >> *Clive Wills* >> >> /Powered by Linux & Open Source Software/// >> >> >> >> -- >> Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 >> Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ >> New thread on mailing list: >> mailto:dor...@mailman.lug.org.**uk >> How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue >> > -- > Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 > Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ > New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk > How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
*Leo Laporte*, (The Tech Guy) always recommends a programming language that will not take you very far, but lays VERY good foundations for good habits of programming that make moving on to more complicated languages easier. Does anyone know what this is. I keep saying every time he mentions it... "I must remember that for my children" But you know... Andrew Drapper On 15 September 2012 13:22, wrote: > Hi All > > My 12 year old grandson has asked 'Which is the best Programming Language > to learn?' - over to you all!! > > Please remember he is 12 years old and has just started senior school here > in Switzerland. I've suggested he ought to lean a cross platform language > but I don't know which one. (C, C++, Python, Ruby, Jarva?) > He has a windows 98 laptop and a MAC at home and I assume a Windows macine > at school. > At the moment he is learning to touch type (at school) and uses Libre > Office and Firefox at home. He is also interested to programme his Lego > Mindstorm but does not have anyone to support him and finds it frustrating > when stuck. > > Any suggestions please? > > -- > *Clive Wills* > > /Powered by Linux & Open Source Software/// > > > > -- > Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 > Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ > New thread on mailing list: > mailto:dor...@mailman.lug.org.**uk > How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue > -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On 15/09/12 14:01, John Carlyle-Clarke wrote: On 15/09/12 13:22, cawi...@talktalk.net wrote: My 12 year old grandson has asked 'Which is the best Programming Language to learn?' - over to you all!! Python is a great starter language as Ralph said, but since it's good to have a few options, I'd suggest that you also look at Scratch [1] and BYOB [2]. I've only tried BYOB, and I can say that while it seems very simple, it smuggles in some solid programming ideas and can reach quite advanced concepts (first class lists and functions, for example). Another thing I've heard described as being a good way to lead people into concepts of programming is "If This Then That", or IFTTT as it's often known [3]. How appealing that is depends on whether he's old enough to have or be allowed accounts on various online services, and if he's interested in them. [1] http://scratch.mit.edu/ [2] http://byob.berkeley.edu/ [3] https://ifttt.com/ All good options. In the interest of having options, I would add Ruby too. http://ruby4kids.com/ruby4kids -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On 15/09/12 13:22, cawi...@talktalk.net wrote: My 12 year old grandson has asked 'Which is the best Programming Language to learn?' - over to you all!! Python is a great starter language as Ralph said, but since it's good to have a few options, I'd suggest that you also look at Scratch [1] and BYOB [2]. I've only tried BYOB, and I can say that while it seems very simple, it smuggles in some solid programming ideas and can reach quite advanced concepts (first class lists and functions, for example). Another thing I've heard described as being a good way to lead people into concepts of programming is "If This Then That", or IFTTT as it's often known [3]. How appealing that is depends on whether he's old enough to have or be allowed accounts on various online services, and if he's interested in them. [1] http://scratch.mit.edu/ [2] http://byob.berkeley.edu/ [3] https://ifttt.com/ -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
Hi Clive, > My 12 year old grandson has asked 'Which is the best Programming > Language to learn?' - over to you all!! > > Please remember he is 12 years old and has just started senior school > here in Switzerland. I'd suggest Python. Perhaps others know of good resources aimed at his experience and age group but a search came up with two free books. http://inventwithpython.com/ There's Python support for Mindstorms too AIUI for when he progresses. Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
