Re: [Dorset] The World Turns!
Interesting, and probably a good thing too. However, it is worth noting that they are still using sister companies to file patents against Linux and open-source projects the last time I looked - to keep their record clean - but they might have stopped :) On 11/10/18 12:07, Terry Coles wrote: > I have to say that I'm totally gob-smacked at this news: > > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/10/microsoft_open_invention_network/ > > I remember all of the controversy about 10-15 years ago when Microsoft > (amongst others) were busy patenting everything remotely related to software > (the double click and the NOT operator for example). US companies were busy > suing each other for $Billions, just so they could stop the competition using > ideas that were generally 'bleeding obvious'. > > So now Microsoft has come across to the light side and given most of its > 'inventions' to the Open Invention Network > > When I read the headline I actually said 'Wow' - out loud. :-) > -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
[Dorset] The World Turns!
I have to say that I'm totally gob-smacked at this news: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/10/microsoft_open_invention_network/ I remember all of the controversy about 10-15 years ago when Microsoft (amongst others) were busy patenting everything remotely related to software (the double click and the NOT operator for example). US companies were busy suing each other for $Billions, just so they could stop the competition using ideas that were generally 'bleeding obvious'. So now Microsoft has come across to the light side and given most of its 'inventions' to the Open Invention Network When I read the headline I actually said 'Wow' - out loud. :-) -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] In-line Replies in Thunderbird
On Thursday, 11 October 2018 10:45:39 BST Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Even though you've reverted to KMail, can't you leave Thunderbird > installed to dabble with, without it being an annoyance because it's > your only MUA? Meanwhile, consider > https://discourse.mozilla.org/c/thunderbird as a place to ask a > question, e.g. folder subscribing, from those used to answering > Thunderbird questions. I haven't uninstalled it. I've just not launched it. > I wonder if you should be sending text/plain emails if you want precise > control over layout, rather than text/html that, depending on what bits > of HTML they decide to use, and how a recipient's MUA renders them, > takes presentation out of your hands. The kind of precise control I want is to hit return once and get a single line feed and to be able to interpret the Quote Marks. I don't use text/html; I've always preferred to use plain text for email, ever since HTML in emails became a very effective attack vector about 20 odd years ago. I notice that all the text in my messages is MIMEd these days, which is slightly annoying because if I save the message to a separate file, I can't conveniently read it without a 'helper'. Thunderbird seemed to do the same thing, so I assume it's the default behaviour these days. I'm not sure why since MIME doubles the size of the message on average; it was fine for attachments, but it shouldn't be needed for the message body. -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] The Thunderbird Experiment is Over
Hi Peter, > Terry thinks it is something with my configuration, but I haven't > changed anything from my Thunderbird or Aol default configs. He's probably referring to the DMARC workaround in Mailman. https://www.mail-archive.com/dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk/msg08326.html https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] In-line Replies in Thunderbird
Hi Terry, > That's a lot of faffing around, which might have to be repeated if I > have to re-install the package. I can't recall the last time I had to reinstall a package on Arch, Debian, or Ubuntu. It feels like a `turn it off and on again'. But if you do have to, then keep a ~/hints/thunderbird that's just a text file recording things you've worked out but won't remember in six months. I've a whole bunch of ~/hints/* for obscure corners. Even though you've reverted to KMail, can't you leave Thunderbird installed to dabble with, without it being an annoyance because it's your only MUA? Meanwhile, consider https://discourse.mozilla.org/c/thunderbird as a place to ask a question, e.g. folder subscribing, from those used to answering Thunderbird questions. I wonder if you should be sending text/plain emails if you want precise control over layout, rather than text/html that, depending on what bits of HTML they decide to use, and how a recipient's MUA renders them, takes presentation out of your hands. Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
Re: [Dorset] The Thunderbird Experiment is Over
On 11/10/18 08:11, Terry Coles wrote: (KMail also has a 'Reply to Mailing List' button, but it's buried in a drop- down. The default behaviour however is to reply to the List if the message came from a List, unless the Sender has configured the 'Reply-To' field to himself or sent the message to me and only CCd the List. In that case, KMail helpfully only displays the message once. This is why I keep getting it wrong ;-( ) If I understand things correctly, there are only very few of us that cause you problems, namely me and Tim. Some months ago I moved my email to the Lug from Netscape.net (Aol) to TalkTalk, which is also Aol I think. Terry thinks it is something with my configuration, but I haven't changed anything from my Thunderbird or Aol default configs. I have just changed my Aol settings to NOT send messages in HTML format. Cheers, Peter -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
[Dorset] The Thunderbird Experiment is Over
I appreciate that I didn't persevere for long, but I've decided to go back to using KMail. Having spent a large part of yesterday messing around with various issues, I decided to cut my losses. At least I know what the problems associated with KMail are, and can work round them, but I never solved the problem associated with folder subscriptions in Thunderbird. Here is a summary of what I found (good and bad) about Thunderbird: Displaying Server Hierarchy: There are at least two sub-folders on my IMAP mail server which Thunderbird refuses to display. I suspect that if I moved those two sub-folders to the higher level, I would be able to see them, but I don't see why I should have to re-organise my server to suit a client. Doing that would make the folder 'tree' in the LH pane more like a twig and would lengthen it, making finding the folder I want much more tedious. To put this into context. I have ten folders in the Archive folder of one of my Mailboxes (in other words; Inbox/ Archive/Foldername (x10)). Most of those folders have two to many sub-folders and some of those have two to many sub-sub-folders. If I removed a layer of these sub-sub-folders, my main level of folders under Archive would probably have to double in number. Managing Responses to Messages: I won't re-iterate everything that I said in the long thread that I started on this. In essence, I prefer the text of the message to be displayed essentially as it is and not 'formatted' and modified to pretty it up according to the developers fancy. In KMail I can choose what character to use for quoted text. Reply-To Addresses: This was one of the reasons that I tried Thunderbird; to minimise the number of times I accidentally replied to the Sender instead of the List. In some ways, Thunderbird is better, because when the message is from a Mailing List it provides a 'Reply to Mailing List' button as well as the stand Reply one. However, the default behaviour is to Reply to the Sender and not to the List. (KMail also has a 'Reply to Mailing List' button, but it's buried in a drop- down. The default behaviour however is to reply to the List if the message came from a List, unless the Sender has configured the 'Reply-To' field to himself or sent the message to me and only CCd the List. In that case, KMail helpfully only displays the message once. This is why I keep getting it wrong ;-( ) General Formatting: Thunderbird looks very nice, but this is at the expense of providing the user with sufficient formatting options to get the message looking the way I want it to be. For example, I often use double-line spacing to emphasise or de- emphasise points, but Thunderbird formats original message this way anyway, so I can't really close-up some text in a new paragraph to attach it to the previous one (such as I have done with the Headings in this Message. I strongly believe that a mail client should make things easier for the user to use it as he likes, not enforce a particular way that the developer likes. So now I'm back with KMail, I'm just going to have to try to keep my wits about me when I reply to List messages. It only happens with the List and only when the Sender has done something unusual, as mentioned above. The trouble is that you guys see it all the time ;-( -- Terry Coles -- Next meeting at *new* venue: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2018-11-06 20:00 Check if you're replying to the list or the author Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
