Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On 16 September 2012 00:03, p.lane p.l...@lectrics.co.uk wrote: [snip] The reason I say Perl is because I see so many vacanices for LAMP developers, so more of an interesting career than 'merely' programming, leading into some good sys' admin too. more options, more bucks. Much as I love Perl most of the Ps in LAMP stacks are PHP these days - or have turned into R for Ruby :-) If folk want to give Perl a poke there's the Modern Perl book http://www.onyxneon.com/books/modern_perl/index.html with free CC licenced online versions. Curtis Poe's new Beginning Perl book is also very good (bias warning: I'm friends with Curtis and did a tiny bit of technical reviewing on it) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-Perl-Curtis-Ovid-Poe/dp/1118013840 Cheers, Adrian -- http://quietstars.com adri...@quietstars.com twitter.com/adrianh t. +44 (0)7752 419080 skype adrianjohnhoward del.icio.us/adrianh -- Next meeting: ???, ???day, 2012-11-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
Well... BASIC. It helped me learn the programming principles learning QBASIC. My second language was probably Javascript... -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On Thu, Sep 20 at 10:20, John Horne wrote: As a side issue, it was also interesting to see that every 2012 Computer Science fresher at Cambridge Uni will receive a free Raspberry Pi. (In my day all I got were free punch cards/coding sheets for programming!) What's really depressing is the implication that every student has an HDMI equipped TV to use it with. In my day we had one TV per college. Made you very discriminating about what you watched. Punch card card was very good for making roaches if I remember correctly. -- Bob Dunlop -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
Hi Bob, What's really depressing is the implication that every student has an HDMI equipped TV to use it with. The RasPi does have composite video output too. :-) HDMI TVs seem to start at £67 at Argos for 16 1366 x 768. Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On Sun, 2012-09-16 at 13:28 +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote: Hi Tim, I haven't mentioned Raspberry Pi because I think the processor is way too complex for anyone to cut their teeth on this. Point taken, though I was interested to see the series at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/freshers/raspberrypi/tutorials/os/ which tries to each ARM assembler on the RasPi where the machine code runs on the bare hardware; no OS. As a side issue, it was also interesting to see that every 2012 Computer Science fresher at Cambridge Uni will receive a free Raspberry Pi. (In my day all I got were free punch cards/coding sheets for programming!) John. -- John Horne, Plymouth University, UK Tel: +44 (0)1752 587287Fax: +44 (0)1752 587001 -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
Hi Clive On 15/09/12 13:22, cawi...@talktalk.net wrote: Hi All My 12 year old grandson has asked 'Which is the best Programming Language to learn?' - over to you all!! From personal experience (albeit many years ago now), the higher the level of language, the duller learning it becomes, so my suggestion is assembly language on any of the dirt-cheap 8-bit dev kits/evaluation kits available. If you go for one of the Freescale MC9S08 kits, it comes with an Eclipse-based development environment that runs under Linux. There's loads of others (the MC9S08 is based on the venerable 1970's 6800, with an entirely traditional architecture which is why I'd suggest that). These dev kits pretty much all come with switches, LED's and a buzzer - writing assembler to produce sounds, light LED's etc is great fun. They all come with C compilers too. Once the lad understands the basics, and how simple it all really is, he will be able to learn the basics of C in a few days. I haven't mentioned Raspberry Pi because I think the processor is way too complex for anyone to cut their teeth on this. Cheers Tim -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
Hi Peter, I believe that there is an editor from which you can run your python and then drop back to the editor, but I don't know what it is. I think there's a few. IDLE, that comes with Python and is introduced in http://inventwithpython.com/, provides it and syntax-colouring. Skimming the start of that book I see it introduces variables like foo = 42 as a box with 42 in it and `foo' written on the outside; the traditional BASIC model but not how Python does things. Might cause a little confusion down the line but I suppose it's easy enough to adapt to the truth later on. foo = 42 bar = 42 id(foo), id(bar), id(42) (22914856, 22914856, 22914856) foo = [3, 1, 4, 1, 5] bar = foo bar[2] = 9 foo, ([3, 1, 9, 1, 5],) Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
Hi Tim, I haven't mentioned Raspberry Pi because I think the processor is way too complex for anyone to cut their teeth on this. Point taken, though I was interested to see the series at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/freshers/raspberrypi/tutorials/os/ which tries to each ARM assembler on the RasPi where the machine code runs on the bare hardware; no OS. He's got as far as drawing lines and text on the screen. USB keyboard input has started but it cheats; the USB handling is in C and called from the assembler. Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
Hi Clive, My 12 year old grandson has asked 'Which is the best Programming Language to learn?' - over to you all!! Please remember he is 12 years old and has just started senior school here in Switzerland. I'd suggest Python. Perhaps others know of good resources aimed at his experience and age group but a search came up with two free books. http://inventwithpython.com/ There's Python support for Mindstorms too AIUI for when he progresses. Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
*Leo Laporte*, (The Tech Guy) always recommends a programming language that will not take you very far, but lays VERY good foundations for good habits of programming that make moving on to more complicated languages easier. Does anyone know what this is. I keep saying every time he mentions it... I must remember that for my children But you know... Andrew Drapper On 15 September 2012 13:22, cawi...@talktalk.net wrote: Hi All My 12 year old grandson has asked 'Which is the best Programming Language to learn?' - over to you all!! Please remember he is 12 years old and has just started senior school here in Switzerland. I've suggested he ought to lean a cross platform language but I don't know which one. (C, C++, Python, Ruby, Jarva?) He has a windows 98 laptop and a MAC at home and I assume a Windows macine at school. At the moment he is learning to touch type (at school) and uses Libre Office and Firefox at home. He is also interested to programme his Lego Mindstorm but does not have anyone to support him and finds it frustrating when stuck. Any suggestions please? -- *Clive Wills* /Powered by Linux Open Source Software/// -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dor...@mailman.lug.org.**ukdorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
I think Leo's recommendation is Python. In any event, I would also recommend it. It's platform-agnostic, it's used by big companies (Google, anyone?), it can be run in a simple, interpreter-like way (single line Basic, anyone?), it supports object-oriented programming, there's lots of documentation and examples freely available,... Adrian On 15 September 2012 15:01, Andrew Drapper and...@drapper.com wrote: *Leo Laporte*, (The Tech Guy) always recommends a programming language that will not take you very far, but lays VERY good foundations for good habits of programming that make moving on to more complicated languages easier. Does anyone know what this is. I keep saying every time he mentions it... I must remember that for my children But you know... Andrew Drapper On 15 September 2012 13:22, cawi...@talktalk.net wrote: Hi All My 12 year old grandson has asked 'Which is the best Programming Language to learn?' - over to you all!! Please remember he is 12 years old and has just started senior school here in Switzerland. I've suggested he ought to lean a cross platform language but I don't know which one. (C, C++, Python, Ruby, Jarva?) He has a windows 98 laptop and a MAC at home and I assume a Windows macine at school. At the moment he is learning to touch type (at school) and uses Libre Office and Firefox at home. He is also interested to programme his Lego Mindstorm but does not have anyone to support him and finds it frustrating when stuck. Any suggestions please? -- *Clive Wills* /Powered by Linux Open Source Software/// -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dor...@mailman.lug.org.**ukdorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On 15/09/12 19:33, Adrian Warman wrote: I think Leo's recommendation is Python. In any event, I would also recommend it. It's platform-agnostic, it's used by big companies (Google, anyone?), it can be run in a simple, interpreter-like way (single line Basic, anyone?), it supports object-oriented programming, there's lots of documentation and examples freely available,... Adrian Excellent reasons Adrian. I always have to ask, what do you want to do with it? If you are wanting to access databases you would use a different language than if you wanted to do machine control. Because the raspberry pi uses Python, I am working with it to control the basic I/O functions, but not yet at doing anything with USB devices. My python references are ' Byte of Python', and 'Dive into Python'. I like interpretive languages like Basic, Forth and Python for learning. I believe that there is an editor from which you can run your python and then drop back to the editor, but I don't know what it is. It might be Notepad++ in a W$ environment. Notepad++ and Kate both display text in different colours depending on their function. Peter M. Peter M. -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On 15 September 2012 20:07, Peter Merchant madsmad...@netscape.net wrote: On 15/09/12 19:33, Adrian Warman wrote: I think Leo's recommendation is Python. In any event, I would also recommend it. It's platform-agnostic, it's used by big companies (Google, anyone?), it can be run in a simple, interpreter-like way (single line Basic, anyone?), it supports object-oriented programming, there's lots of documentation and examples freely available,... Adrian Excellent reasons Adrian. I always have to ask, what do you want to do with it? If you are wanting to access databases you would use a different language than if you wanted to do machine control. Because the raspberry pi uses Python, I am working with it to control the basic I/O functions, but not yet at doing anything with USB devices. My python references are ' Byte of Python', and 'Dive into Python'. I like interpretive languages like Basic, Forth and Python for learning. I believe that there is an editor from which you can run your python and then drop back to the editor, but I don't know what it is. It might be Notepad++ in a W$ environment. Notepad++ and Kate both display text in different colours depending on their function. Peter M. Peter M. Personally I would have to agre that Python is a good choice for starting learning about software because it encourages good practices and it can actually take you a very long way. I use Scite to edit my Python because it is itself cross platform, it provides syntax colouring and you can compile / interpret your code from the Editor and if there is an error it will highlight the line with the error. I have Notepad++ on the work laptop that I'm writing on now and I've just looked for Compilation / Interpretation tools and I couldn't find any, (but I only looked quite quickly). Good luck to your grandson Clive. -- Cheers Peter -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On 15/09/2012 13:22, cawi...@talktalk.net wrote: Hi All My 12 year old grandson has asked 'Which is the best Programming Language to learn?' - over to you all!! Please remember he is 12 years old and has just started senior school here in Switzerland. I've suggested he ought to lean a cross platform language but I don't know which one. (C, C++, Python, Ruby, Jarva?) He has a windows 98 laptop and a MAC at home and I assume a Windows macine at school. At the moment he is learning to touch type (at school) and uses Libre Office and Firefox at home. He is also interested to programme his Lego Mindstorm but does not have anyone to support him and finds it frustrating when stuck. Any suggestions please? -- *Clive Wills* /Powered by Linux Open Source Software/// -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue Perl, Perl and more Perl...then Python. -- P.Lane CEO Lectrics Ltd Poole Dorset -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Best starter programming language
On 15/09/2012 22:00, Peter Washington wrote: On 15 September 2012 20:07, Peter Merchantmadsmad...@netscape.net wrote: On 15/09/12 19:33, Adrian Warman wrote: I think Leo's recommendation is Python. In any event, I would also recommend it. It's platform-agnostic, it's used by big companies (Google, anyone?), it can be run in a simple, interpreter-like way (single line Basic, anyone?), it supports object-oriented programming, there's lots of documentation and examples freely available,... Adrian Excellent reasons Adrian. I always have to ask, what do you want to do with it? If you are wanting to access databases you would use a different language than if you wanted to do machine control. Because the raspberry pi uses Python, I am working with it to control the basic I/O functions, but not yet at doing anything with USB devices. My python references are ' Byte of Python', and 'Dive into Python'. I like interpretive languages like Basic, Forth and Python for learning. I believe that there is an editor from which you can run your python and then drop back to the editor, but I don't know what it is. It might be Notepad++ in a W$ environment. Notepad++ and Kate both display text in different colours depending on their function. Peter M. Peter M. Personally I would have to agre that Python is a good choice for starting learning about software because it encourages good practices and it can actually take you a very long way. I use Scite to edit my Python because it is itself cross platform, it provides syntax colouring and you can compile / interpret your code from the Editor and if there is an error it will highlight the line with the error. I have Notepad++ on the work laptop that I'm writing on now and I've just looked for Compilation / Interpretation tools and I couldn't find any, (but I only looked quite quickly). Good luck to your grandson Clive. And Perl is also platform agnostic. Phil. -- P.Lane CEO Lectrics Ltd Poole Dorset -- Next meeting: 2012-10-?? 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
