Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
Hi Charles, I have two (1+1TB RADI-1)=1TB network drives and two (2+2TB RAID-1)=2TB network drives (the set comprises main and backups), and one (1+1TB RAID-1)=1TB 4-way switch transferrable external USB workdrive (no data lives on PCs). BTW, if that's with a hardware RAID controller then it's worth considering what happens if the controller fails, especially when it's aged a bit. Getting a replacement that picks up with the drives where the old one left used to be tricky, perhaps it's easier now? Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
Thanks Ralph, I bought pairs of Lacie and Freecom external dual-drives with RAID controllers built in. I asked Lacie what happens if the RAID controller packs up - could I transfer both disks to my other controller and they said 'NO, send it to us'. I asked if one of the HDDs could be inserted as an added drive in my PC, and they said 'NO, RAID information lives on disk'. I pointed out that the drives were RAID 1, mirrored, so no stripes or anything like that, and they still said 'NO, send it to us'. Either Lacie were not being cooperative (which I think was the case) or they are not bog-standard drives with the same information written to both, which RAID 1 (mirrored) implies. For data safety, I bought an extra HDD for each set, the principle being that ONE side of each set is periodically alternated with the spare. This does two things: the work done by each of the alternate set is only half when compared to the unchanged drive, so when the longest-worked (unchanged) drive fails, the other two, having only done half the work each, will survive the rebuild-new-drive process. Rebuilding is the hardest work a drive will do, and the surviving drive is normall expected to do it at the expected end of its own life! The alternating HDDs will also benefit from having most of the information already on them. RAID does not deliver the data safety it promises, and may be no safer than a single drive. Saving to one HDD then saving to another HDD while employing the one alternating regime would be better than RAID, but is just not practical. Saving to two HDD at the same time, with alternating, would be better - but can it be done? Charles Quoting Ralph Corderoy ra...@inputplus.co.uk: Hi Charles, I have two (1+1TB RADI-1)=1TB network drives and two (2+2TB RAID-1)=2TB network drives (the set comprises main and backups), and one (1+1TB RAID-1)=1TB 4-way switch transferrable external USB workdrive (no data lives on PCs). BTW, if that's with a hardware RAID controller then it's worth considering what happens if the controller fails, especially when it's aged a bit. Getting a replacement that picks up with the drives where the old one left used to be tricky, perhaps it's easier now? Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
On 22/06/13 00:06, c...@pampru.org wrote: I pointed out that the drives were RAID 1, mirrored, so no stripes or anything like that, and they still said 'NO, send it to us'. Give us all your data!!! RAID disks/partitions have a header, which in Linux RAID I believe includes the UUID of the disk and the UUID of every other disk in the RAID, ie. each disk contains the entire configuration of the array. I wouldn't be surprised if their NAS box runs Linux and uses Linux RAID, as that would be cheaper than implementing their own, but it might not. Anyway, unless they are trying to make life hard for everyone by storing the data in a non-linear manner you could simply ignore the RAID header. The 'mount' command can be passed an offset, so you can find the real start of the filesystem on the drive (and there's probably many ways to do that) and pass that offset to mount. -- Andrew. -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:15:15 +0100, c...@pampru.org said: Any ideas or comments are always most welcome! You may change your mind about that when you've read my comments... You seem to be neither Windows nor Linux right now. 20 FAT32 partitions per drive *for safety*? Four machines dual booting? Two versions of Windows and at least one Linux? Best way to learn a language: move to where it's spoken natively. Learn to think in the other language, not translate everything [anecdote below]. My suggestion to you is to pick either Windows or Linux, and stick with that. If you want to, you can do everything in Linux. People have lots of reasons why they still need Windows, but they mostly boil down to they still want Windows. If you want Windows, use it; if you want to use Linux, use that. Anecdote: my wife is Swedish, and has only ever spoken to our daughter in Swedish. So, from when she could speak, daughter has been bilingual. Until she was about four, she couldn't translate from one language to the other. I'd ask her what Mummy had said; she's look at me as if I were stupid and tell me it was SWEDISH so I wouldn't understand. From about four, she realised she could re-state the same intelligence in a different way. I think that's fascinating (but irrelevant to your post, Charles, sorry). -- You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you. -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
On 20/06/13 07:27, Keith Edmunds wrote: My suggestion to you is to pick either Windows or Linux, and stick with that. If you want to, you can do everything in Linux. Hi Keith, Fist up I'll confess that I have only dropped in on this thread at this point. However, that said I'm not sure I agree with your statement. For instance, if you are a gamer you will struggle to run most of the the big titles on your Linux-only machine. Granted most other applications can be run in a virtual environment or Wine, but there are some that have limitations in that regard and no fully-functional Linux equivalent. Also, I can see a situation where someone who uses Linux at home would want to retain a familiarity with Windows for professional reasons and/or for study outside of work. Going back to your bi-lingual anecdote, there are very few ideas that cannot be expressed or conceived in only one language, but nevertheless it can be useful to speak two or more languages, and even fun, too. Finally, we are talking about Samba here, and isn't the raison d'être of Samba is to facilitate communication between Windows and Linux/Unix machines? Surely such an important and long-running project confirms that everything can be done in Linux? Sean -- music, film, comics, books, rants and drivel: www.funkygibbins.me.uk -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
On 20/06/13 08:18, Sean Gibbins wrote: On 20/06/13 07:27, Keith Edmunds wrote: My suggestion to you is to pick either Windows or Linux, and stick with that. If you want to, you can do everything in Linux. Hi Keith, Fist up I'll confess that I have only dropped in on this thread at this point. However, that said I'm not sure I agree with your statement. For instance, if you are a gamer you will struggle to run most of the the big titles on your Linux-only machine. Granted most other applications can be run in a virtual environment or Wine, but there are some that have limitations in that regard and no fully-functional Linux equivalent. Also, I can see a situation where someone who uses Linux at home would want to retain a familiarity with Windows for professional reasons and/or for study outside of work. Going back to your bi-lingual anecdote, there are very few ideas that cannot be expressed or conceived in only one language, but nevertheless it can be useful to speak two or more languages, and even fun, too. Finally, we are talking about Samba here, and isn't the raison d'être of Samba is to facilitate communication between Windows and Linux/Unix machines? Surely such an important and long-running project confirms that everything can be done in Linux? Sean I'm with Sean on this. 'My' computer is dual boot kubuntu and XP, because I cannot get my scanner to work under linux. I use Samba to share files with my wife's XP computer where there is a 'shared' directory. I do not need samba on her XP box as we just stick files in that shared directory. One of my next tasks is to make the ancient parallel connected laserjet on my linux box available to her computer as the printer there is a lot more expensive to run. At the moment on the XP box I print to pdf and stick it in the shared directory to print off from linux. So like many people I do need to be literate in more than one OS. I have not succeeded like Terry in getting my wife on to linux. She thinks that is something for geeks still. Peter -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
Hi Charles On 19/06/13 16:15, c...@pampru.org wrote: I have four PCs, most will be dual-boot so that I am able to run XP-Pro and Office 2003-Pro (a decade with no problems and do all I want) and Win-7 with Office 2007 Pro (very difficult to use) with Office 2003 Pro to fall back on en 2007 hits my exasperation limit (very short fuse!). You may want to try Virtualbox. Choose your base system (either Windows or Linux), put Virtualbox on it, then install the other operating system within that. It's very straightforward (much less hairy than dual boot/partitioning hassles) and very convenient - you can have both OSes running together and copy/paste between them. All will have Linux, probably Ubuntu LTS and LibreOffice, as this is what I hope to migrate all my university and institute work on to (not good enough yet to compete with XP/2003 yet but slowly getting there!), but I will still need MS for legacy/MS-only devices and for outside contacts. If you plan to migrate to Linux, I suggest you install Linux as the base system. You can them install Virtualbox and Windows as a guest OS. As already mentioned, Samba can be used for a mixed (or purely Linux) network. Cheers Tim All network devices will be fixed IP working through unmanaged 1GB switches, and each PC has a hardware switch to uncouple it from the Switch/hubs and connect to the BT internet home-Hub (so that network is always isolated from internet). As only programs live on PCs, taking a drive-image means that a restore cleans the PC after internet use. One PC may be dedicated to internet use. XP-Pro and Office 2003-Pro (xls/doc/ppt/jpg/txt) remains the rock for most of my work! I have spent 25 years collecting data and I can't afford tany more years of the disruption that I have suffered, nor to be continuously dealing with IT problems as is the case right now. I am nearly 74 years old, and I want to finish my project! Following a double-upgrader, 12.04LTS is up and running well, but a problem with Samba4 was flagged during the upgrade and I sent the report. Replies contain several links which I will try and follow when I have some time to spare. It may look like a mad hatter's tea party, but the system should overcome my worries when it works, but I may need professional help somewhere. Any ideas or comments are always most welcome! Charles Quoting Ralph Corderoy ra...@inputplus.co.uk: Hi Charles, Turns out I was on 11.04 so I have upgraded to 11.10 and am now in process of upgrading again to 12.04LTS - will probably stop there as that seems to be the latest stable LTS. Yes, it is. I will also be re-formatting network and USB drives to EXT4 and installing Samba on Windows machines so that they can also use the drives - does this make sense? No, not really. :-) I've not used Samba, not having a need, but others on the list have so hopefully they'll pipe up. If you're intending to plug those USB drives into Windows machines then they need to be formatted with a filesystem Windows understands; and ext4 isn't by default. If all the drives are connected to Linux machines and Windows only sees them over the network, then ext4 is fine. To use the network to access the drives, I'd expect Samba to be on the Linux machines so they can serve up the drives' content and Windows would use its native software to access them over the network. Samba could also be used for Linux-to-Linux access over the network AIUI; bits of Samba running on both machines. What is it you'd like to achieve? Access to what storage and where? Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
Thanks Tim, and to all others who have sent comments they have all helped, but I do need Windows AND Linux. I need Windows because it is used by business. As I am a 73 year old pensioner augmenting my meagre pension by doing occasional work, I can't afford to upgrade Pro versions of Windows software at Microsoft's ever-shortening upgrade intervals. Also, the changes between MS-Office versions are so great that it takes too long to get back up to speed again, hence XP and Office 2003 as my reliable Windows OS/Office. Win-7/Office 2007, which I was just getting familiar with after the Vista 64 disaster, has already been made obsolete by Office 2010 and Win-8! I run Pampru, a small institute, on a shoe-string budget so this runs Ubuntu Linux/LibreOffice. Not as easy to use as XP/2003, but getting better and (almost) free. Tim, your idea greatly appeals to me as it seems to solve all problems and reduce complexity too. But please:- Has Virtualbox been around long enough to be proven reliable? Can all drives be formatted EXT4? Would I be able to read and write to non-EXT4 USB memory from any running OS? Can I load two Virtual boxes on a machine, one for XP and one for later version MS OS that I need to become familiar with? If all are YES, I would run all PCs on LinuxLTS with Virtualbox(s) and format all drives to EXT4. Sounds like IT Heaven but what, if any, are the downsides? Best regards to all, Charles Quoting Tim Allen t...@ls83.eclipse.co.uk: Hi Charles On 19/06/13 16:15, c...@pampru.org wrote: I have four PCs, most will be dual-boot so that I am able to run XP-Pro and Office 2003-Pro (a decade with no problems and do all I want) and Win-7 with Office 2007 Pro (very difficult to use) with Office 2003 Pro to fall back on en 2007 hits my exasperation limit (very short fuse!). You may want to try Virtualbox. Choose your base system (either Windows or Linux), put Virtualbox on it, then install the other operating system within that. It's very straightforward (much less hairy than dual boot/partitioning hassles) and very convenient - you can have both OSes running together and copy/paste between them. All will have Linux, probably Ubuntu LTS and LibreOffice, as this is what I hope to migrate all my university and institute work on to (not good enough yet to compete with XP/2003 yet but slowly getting there!), but I will still need MS for legacy/MS-only devices and for outside contacts. If you plan to migrate to Linux, I suggest you install Linux as the base system. You can them install Virtualbox and Windows as a guest OS. As already mentioned, Samba can be used for a mixed (or purely Linux) network. Cheers Tim All network devices will be fixed IP working through unmanaged 1GB switches, and each PC has a hardware switch to uncouple it from the Switch/hubs and connect to the BT internet home-Hub (so that network is always isolated from internet). As only programs live on PCs, taking a drive-image means that a restore cleans the PC after internet use. One PC may be dedicated to internet use. XP-Pro and Office 2003-Pro (xls/doc/ppt/jpg/txt) remains the rock for most of my work! I have spent 25 years collecting data and I can't afford tany more years of the disruption that I have suffered, nor to be continuously dealing with IT problems as is the case right now. I am nearly 74 years old, and I want to finish my project! Following a double-upgrader, 12.04LTS is up and running well, but a problem with Samba4 was flagged during the upgrade and I sent the report. Replies contain several links which I will try and follow when I have some time to spare. It may look like a mad hatter's tea party, but the system should overcome my worries when it works, but I may need professional help somewhere. Any ideas or comments are always most welcome! Charles Quoting Ralph Corderoy ra...@inputplus.co.uk: Hi Charles, Turns out I was on 11.04 so I have upgraded to 11.10 and am now in process of upgrading again to 12.04LTS - will probably stop there as that seems to be the latest stable LTS. Yes, it is. I will also be re-formatting network and USB drives to EXT4 and installing Samba on Windows machines so that they can also use the drives - does this make sense? No, not really. :-) I've not used Samba, not having a need, but others on the list have so hopefully they'll pipe up. If you're intending to plug those USB drives into Windows machines then they need to be formatted with a filesystem Windows understands; and ext4 isn't by default. If all the drives are connected to Linux machines and Windows only sees them over the network, then ext4 is fine. To use the network to access the drives, I'd expect Samba to be on the Linux machines so they can serve up the drives' content and Windows would use its native software to access them over the network. Samba could also be used for Linux-to-Linux access over the network AIUI; bits
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
On 19/06/2013 14:15, Ralph Corderoy wrote: Hi Charles, Turns out I was on 11.04 so I have upgraded to 11.10 and am now in process of upgrading again to 12.04LTS - will probably stop there as that seems to be the latest stable LTS. Yes, it is. I will also be re-formatting network and USB drives to EXT4 and installing Samba on Windows machines so that they can also use the drives - does this make sense? No, not really. :-) I've not used Samba, not having a need, but others on the list have so hopefully they'll pipe up. If you're intending to plug those USB drives into Windows machines then they need to be formatted with a filesystem Windows understands; and ext4 isn't by default. If all the drives are connected to Linux machines and Windows only sees them over the network, then ext4 is fine. To use the network to access the drives, I'd expect Samba to be on the Linux machines so they can serve up the drives' content and Windows would use its native software to access them over the network. Samba could also be used for Linux-to-Linux access over the network AIUI; bits of Samba running on both machines. What is it you'd like to achieve? Access to what storage and where? Cheers, Ralph. Samba is an excellent tool, controllable from the Linux side and simple to set up and manage. I recommend it. -- P.Lane CEO Lectrics Ltd Poole Dorset -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
On 20/06/2013 14:22, c...@pampru.org wrote: Thanks Tim, and to all others who have sent comments they have all helped, but I do need Windows AND Linux. I need Windows because it is used by business. As I am a 73 year old pensioner augmenting my meagre pension by doing occasional work, I can't afford to upgrade Pro versions of Windows software at Microsoft's ever-shortening upgrade intervals. Also, the changes between MS-Office versions are so great that it takes too long to get back up to speed again, hence XP and Office 2003 as my reliable Windows OS/Office. Win-7/Office 2007, which I was just getting familiar with after the Vista 64 disaster, has already been made obsolete by Office 2010 and Win-8! I run Pampru, a small institute, on a shoe-string budget so this runs Ubuntu Linux/LibreOffice. Not as easy to use as XP/2003, but getting better and (almost) free. Tim, your idea greatly appeals to me as it seems to solve all problems and reduce complexity too. But please:- Has Virtualbox been around long enough to be proven reliable? Can all drives be formatted EXT4? Would I be able to read and write to non-EXT4 USB memory from any running OS? Can I load two Virtual boxes on a machine, one for XP and one for later version MS OS that I need to become familiar with? If all are YES, I would run all PCs on LinuxLTS with Virtualbox(s) and format all drives to EXT4. Sounds like IT Heaven but what, if any, are the downsides? Best regards to all, Charles Quoting Tim Allen t...@ls83.eclipse.co.uk: Hi Charles On 19/06/13 16:15, c...@pampru.org wrote: I have four PCs, most will be dual-boot so that I am able to run XP-Pro and Office 2003-Pro (a decade with no problems and do all I want) and Win-7 with Office 2007 Pro (very difficult to use) with Office 2003 Pro to fall back on en 2007 hits my exasperation limit (very short fuse!). You may want to try Virtualbox. Choose your base system (either Windows or Linux), put Virtualbox on it, then install the other operating system within that. It's very straightforward (much less hairy than dual boot/partitioning hassles) and very convenient - you can have both OSes running together and copy/paste between them. All will have Linux, probably Ubuntu LTS and LibreOffice, as this is what I hope to migrate all my university and institute work on to (not good enough yet to compete with XP/2003 yet but slowly getting there!), but I will still need MS for legacy/MS-only devices and for outside contacts. If you plan to migrate to Linux, I suggest you install Linux as the base system. You can them install Virtualbox and Windows as a guest OS. As already mentioned, Samba can be used for a mixed (or purely Linux) network. Cheers Tim All network devices will be fixed IP working through unmanaged 1GB switches, and each PC has a hardware switch to uncouple it from the Switch/hubs and connect to the BT internet home-Hub (so that network is always isolated from internet). As only programs live on PCs, taking a drive-image means that a restore cleans the PC after internet use. One PC may be dedicated to internet use. XP-Pro and Office 2003-Pro (xls/doc/ppt/jpg/txt) remains the rock for most of my work! I have spent 25 years collecting data and I can't afford tany more years of the disruption that I have suffered, nor to be continuously dealing with IT problems as is the case right now. I am nearly 74 years old, and I want to finish my project! Following a double-upgrader, 12.04LTS is up and running well, but a problem with Samba4 was flagged during the upgrade and I sent the report. Replies contain several links which I will try and follow when I have some time to spare. It may look like a mad hatter's tea party, but the system should overcome my worries when it works, but I may need professional help somewhere. Any ideas or comments are always most welcome! Charles Quoting Ralph Corderoy ra...@inputplus.co.uk: Hi Charles, Turns out I was on 11.04 so I have upgraded to 11.10 and am now in process of upgrading again to 12.04LTS - will probably stop there as that seems to be the latest stable LTS. Yes, it is. I will also be re-formatting network and USB drives to EXT4 and installing Samba on Windows machines so that they can also use the drives - does this make sense? No, not really. :-) I've not used Samba, not having a need, but others on the list have so hopefully they'll pipe up. If you're intending to plug those USB drives into Windows machines then they need to be formatted with a filesystem Windows understands; and ext4 isn't by default. If all the drives are connected to Linux machines and Windows only sees them over the network, then ext4 is fine. To use the network to access the drives, I'd expect Samba to be on the Linux machines so they can serve up the drives' content and Windows would use its native software to access them over the network. Samba could also be used for
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
Hi Charles On 20/06/13 14:22, c...@pampru.org wrote: Thanks Tim, and to all others who have sent comments they have all helped, but I do need Windows AND Linux. I need Windows because it is used by business. As I am a 73 year old pensioner augmenting my meagre pension by doing occasional work, I can't afford to upgrade Pro versions of Windows software at Microsoft's ever-shortening upgrade intervals. Also, the changes between MS-Office versions are so great that it takes too long to get back up to speed again, hence XP and Office 2003 as my reliable Windows OS/Office. Win-7/Office 2007, which I was just getting familiar with after the Vista 64 disaster, has already been made obsolete by Office 2010 and Win-8! I run Pampru, a small institute, on a shoe-string budget so this runs Ubuntu Linux/LibreOffice. Not as easy to use as XP/2003, but getting better and (almost) free. Tim, your idea greatly appeals to me as it seems to solve all problems and reduce complexity too. But please:- Has Virtualbox been around long enough to be proven reliable? Yes. On version 4 now. Maintained by Oracle. Widely used. Can all drives be formatted EXT4? Yes. Would I be able to read and write to non-EXT4 USB memory from any running OS? Yes. Can I load two Virtual boxes on a machine, one for XP and one for later version MS OS that I need to become familiar with? Yes. If all are YES, I would run all PCs on LinuxLTS with Virtualbox(s) and format all drives to EXT4. I advise you grab the latest Virtualbox off https://www.virtualbox.org. They have deb packages. Sounds like IT Heaven but what, if any, are the downsides? You need enough RAM to run both OS'es together, and enough CPU power. Given that most recent machines come with both that shouldn't be an issue. I'm using it on a 12 yr old machine Terry kindly gave me (4GB, couple of vintage Xeons). Hardware (eg USB peripherals) are passed through to the guest OS via Virtualbox drivers. I've had no problems with this with things like USB memory sticks, but with more obscure stuff (like microprocessor programming pods) have run into problems. Booting the guest OS can be quite slow - I've found this more noticeable with Linux guests than Windows guests. There are a few more upsides - notably being able to take snapshots of your virtual machines (for instance before installing a new piece of software). This allows you to easily roll back. Also, once you've loaded your guest OS onto one machine, you can then copy it to other machines without the whole reinstall palaver (licenses permitting of course). I've run W2k, XP and Vista as virtual machines with no problems. Cheers Tim -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
On 20/06/2013 15:01, Tim Allen wrote: You need enough RAM to run both OS'es together, and enough CPU power. Given that most recent machines come with both that shouldn't be an issue. I'm using it on a 12 yr old machine Terry kindly gave me (4GB, couple of vintage Xeons). Hardware (eg USB peripherals) are passed through to the guest OS via Virtualbox drivers. I've had no problems with this with things like USB memory sticks, but with more obscure stuff (like microprocessor programming pods) have run into problems. Booting the guest OS can be quite slow - I've found this more noticeable with Linux guests than Windows guests. Just as an aside (alternative to Virtualbox), if you have the virtualisation extensions on your hardware then you could use the xen/qemu visualization. Personally my laptop books into Ubuntu and then starts up a Windows 7 virtual running in an lvm partition under the xen hypervisor. This means it gets access to the tin (graphics card, usb bus etc.) and runs significantly faster than virtualbox. Regards, Simon -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
On 20/06/2013 16:08, Simon P Smith wrote: Personally my laptop books into Ubuntu and then starts up a Windows 7 virtual running in an lvm partition under the xen hypervisor. This means it gets access to the tin (graphics card, usb bus etc.) and runs significantly faster than virtualbox. Email in haste - repent at leisure. I actually meany KVM not XEN ;-) -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
FWIW, my setup is as follows: I have a dual-boot machine, running Windows 7 and Ubuntu 12.10. The Grub loader lets me switch between the two. About 10 years back, installing dual-boot Windows/Linux could be very problematic. I nuked one OS or the other during installation more times than I care to admit :) With more recent Linux distros though, it has become far more stable. Ubuntu does a nice job. I install Windows first, then Ubuntu. During Ubuntu installation, I can repartition my hard disk and setup ext3/ext4 or whatever. It also installs Grub perfectly for the dual-boot setup. In terms of network access: I share my NTFS partitions in Windows, so they can be seen by all machines on the LAN. I store my shared data there. I'm sure I could expose my ext3 partitions to the network via export/Samba etc, but using my Windows partitions for shared data has been relatively easy to setup, and has worked well for years now. Just my tuppence worth. Andrew. From: Simon P Smith simon.sm...@askitsdone.co.uk To: Dorset Linux User Group dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk Sent: Thursday, 20 June 2013, 16:08 Subject: Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives. On 20/06/2013 15:01, Tim Allen wrote: You need enough RAM to run both OS'es together, and enough CPU power. Given that most recent machines come with both that shouldn't be an issue. I'm using it on a 12 yr old machine Terry kindly gave me (4GB, couple of vintage Xeons). Hardware (eg USB peripherals) are passed through to the guest OS via Virtualbox drivers. I've had no problems with this with things like USB memory sticks, but with more obscure stuff (like microprocessor programming pods) have run into problems. Booting the guest OS can be quite slow - I've found this more noticeable with Linux guests than Windows guests. Just as an aside (alternative to Virtualbox), if you have the virtualisation extensions on your hardware then you could use the xen/qemu visualization. Personally my laptop books into Ubuntu and then starts up a Windows 7 virtual running in an lvm partition under the xen hypervisor. This means it gets access to the tin (graphics card, usb bus etc.) and runs significantly faster than virtualbox. Regards, Simon -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
On 20/06/13 18:05, andrew_bone...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: FWIW, my setup is as follows: I have a dual-boot machine, running Windows 7 and Ubuntu 12.10. The Grub loader lets me switch between the two. About 10 years back, installing dual-boot Windows/Linux could be very problematic. I nuked one OS or the other during installation more times than I care to admit :) With more recent Linux distros though, it has become far more stable. Ubuntu does a nice job. I install Windows first, then Ubuntu. During Ubuntu installation, I can repartition my hard disk and setup ext3/ext4 or whatever. It also installs Grub perfectly for the dual-boot setup. In terms of network access: I share my NTFS partitions in Windows, so they can be seen by all machines on the LAN. I store my shared data there. I'm sure I could expose my ext3 partitions to the network via export/Samba etc, but using my Windows partitions for shared data has been relatively easy to setup, and has worked well for years now. Just my tuppence worth. Andrew. Me too-ish. Dual boot XP and Kubuntu, defaults to kubuntu as first item on grub 2 menu. Data drive is fat32 for access by both, but linux 'home' drive is ext4. I have just set up printing on this kubuntu machine from my wife's XP box using the instructions here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=806699 (not sure of the grammar in this statement!) This is so that we(she) can print things that don't require the expensive colour printer on the cheapy HP laserjet 5M parallel printer on my linux computer. Cheers. Peter M. -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
Thanks again Tim, all my machines are fairly up to date so I'll give it a try. Charles Quoting Tim Allen t...@ls83.eclipse.co.uk: Hi Charles Tim, your idea greatly appeals to me as it seems to solve all problems and reduce complexity too. But please:- Has Virtualbox been around long enough to be proven reliable? Yes. On version 4 now. Maintained by Oracle. Widely used. Can all drives be formatted EXT4? Yes. Would I be able to read and write to non-EXT4 USB memory from any running OS? Yes. Can I load two Virtual boxes on a machine, one for XP and one for later version MS OS that I need to become familiar with? Yes. If all are YES, I would run all PCs on LinuxLTS with Virtualbox(s) and format all drives to EXT4. I advise you grab the latest Virtualbox off https://www.virtualbox.org. They have deb packages. Sounds like IT Heaven but what, if any, are the downsides? You need enough RAM to run both OS'es together, and enough CPU power. Given that most recent machines come with both that shouldn't be an issue. I'm using it on a 12 yr old machine Terry kindly gave me (4GB, couple of vintage Xeons). Hardware (eg USB peripherals) are passed through to the guest OS via Virtualbox drivers. I've had no problems with this with things like USB memory sticks, but with more obscure stuff (like microprocessor programming pods) have run into problems. Booting the guest OS can be quite slow - I've found this more noticeable with Linux guests than Windows guests. There are a few more upsides - notably being able to take snapshots of your virtual machines (for instance before installing a new piece of software). This allows you to easily roll back. Also, once you've loaded your guest OS onto one machine, you can then copy it to other machines without the whole reinstall palaver (licenses permitting of course). I've run W2k, XP and Vista as virtual machines with no problems. Cheers Tim -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
[Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
Hi Charles, Turns out I was on 11.04 so I have upgraded to 11.10 and am now in process of upgrading again to 12.04LTS - will probably stop there as that seems to be the latest stable LTS. Yes, it is. I will also be re-formatting network and USB drives to EXT4 and installing Samba on Windows machines so that they can also use the drives - does this make sense? No, not really. :-) I've not used Samba, not having a need, but others on the list have so hopefully they'll pipe up. If you're intending to plug those USB drives into Windows machines then they need to be formatted with a filesystem Windows understands; and ext4 isn't by default. If all the drives are connected to Linux machines and Windows only sees them over the network, then ext4 is fine. To use the network to access the drives, I'd expect Samba to be on the Linux machines so they can serve up the drives' content and Windows would use its native software to access them over the network. Samba could also be used for Linux-to-Linux access over the network AIUI; bits of Samba running on both machines. What is it you'd like to achieve? Access to what storage and where? Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
Re: [Dorset] Samba and Windows Access to Drives.
Thanks Ralph, I can see the problem with USB, so may have dedicated Windows and EXT4 USB drives. Not sure how this works on dual-boot machines though. After numerous problems with NTFS and Vista and lots of lost, blocked-access, and scrambled files despite top-rated antivirus, I want a safe storage system and EXT4 looks best presently available format (although btfs may be better eventually!). For safety, most of my recovered data is stored on lots of FAT32 32GB partitions (20 per drive) but that is a nightmare to work with! I have two (1+1TB RADI-1)=1TB network drives and two (2+2TB RAID-1)=2TB network drives (the set comprises main and backups), and one (1+1TB RAID-1)=1TB 4-way switch transferrable external USB workdrive (no data lives on PCs). I have lots of single drives which I bought in panic when my data started vanishing, but they will all be withdrawn from system use when data on them has been recovered and merged. --- I have four PCs, most will be dual-boot so that I am able to run XP-Pro and Office 2003-Pro (a decade with no problems and do all I want) and Win-7 with Office 2007 Pro (very difficult to use) with Office 2003 Pro to fall back on en 2007 hits my exasperation limit (very short fuse!). All will have Linux, probably Ubuntu LTS and LibreOffice, as this is what I hope to migrate all my university and institute work on to (not good enough yet to compete with XP/2003 yet but slowly getting there!), but I will still need MS for legacy/MS-only devices and for outside contacts. All network devices will be fixed IP working through unmanaged 1GB switches, and each PC has a hardware switch to uncouple it from the Switch/hubs and connect to the BT internet home-Hub (so that network is always isolated from internet). As only programs live on PCs, taking a drive-image means that a restore cleans the PC after internet use. One PC may be dedicated to internet use. XP-Pro and Office 2003-Pro (xls/doc/ppt/jpg/txt) remains the rock for most of my work! I have spent 25 years collecting data and I can't afford tany more years of the disruption that I have suffered, nor to be continuously dealing with IT problems as is the case right now. I am nearly 74 years old, and I want to finish my project! Following a double-upgrader, 12.04LTS is up and running well, but a problem with Samba4 was flagged during the upgrade and I sent the report. Replies contain several links which I will try and follow when I have some time to spare. It may look like a mad hatter's tea party, but the system should overcome my worries when it works, but I may need professional help somewhere. Any ideas or comments are always most welcome! Charles Quoting Ralph Corderoy ra...@inputplus.co.uk: Hi Charles, Turns out I was on 11.04 so I have upgraded to 11.10 and am now in process of upgrading again to 12.04LTS - will probably stop there as that seems to be the latest stable LTS. Yes, it is. I will also be re-formatting network and USB drives to EXT4 and installing Samba on Windows machines so that they can also use the drives - does this make sense? No, not really. :-) I've not used Samba, not having a need, but others on the list have so hopefully they'll pipe up. If you're intending to plug those USB drives into Windows machines then they need to be formatted with a filesystem Windows understands; and ext4 isn't by default. If all the drives are connected to Linux machines and Windows only sees them over the network, then ext4 is fine. To use the network to access the drives, I'd expect Samba to be on the Linux machines so they can serve up the drives' content and Windows would use its native software to access them over the network. Samba could also be used for Linux-to-Linux access over the network AIUI; bits of Samba running on both machines. What is it you'd like to achieve? Access to what storage and where? Cheers, Ralph. -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue -- Next meeting: Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2013-07-02 20:00 Meets, Mailing list, IRC, LinkedIn, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread on mailing list: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk How to Report Bugs Effectively: http://goo.gl/4Xue
