RE: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up
The fairest way to do things is the way it is currently being done. LoTW is voluntary and it should always be such. Many reasons. There will always be people who paper log. There will always be DXpeditions that paper log. There will always be DXers who do not own a computer and/or do not have access to the internet. Paper QSLs therefore should always be available. I can say with strict confidence after handling 3Y0X (and associated calls), and the recent VU7 operations, that paper QSLing produces a rather large funding source for the mega expensive DXpeditions. Actually, much larger than I had originally thought. This will never be recovered if LoTW is utilized soon after a DXpedition is over. Never. Trust me on this. If DXpeditions were forced to utilize LoTW, it would definitely negatively affect the funding. And as such, it could very well make it more difficult to do DXpeditions, especially to the rarer hard to reach entities. As for some sort of PayPal donation account tied to LoTW in order to fund DXpeditions, that would of course be in contradiction to DXCC rules that state that nobody can ever require payment for a QSL card. And it would not be fair at all. Most DXpeditions pride themselves in offering QSLs to ALL who work them and request a QSL card; even those who send a minimum SASE or SAE/GS or SAE/IRC get a QSL card. And yes, even via the QSL bureaus (in due time), and eventually via LoTW if they so desire. If the ARRL was to mandate DXpeditions utilizing LoTW, then they would also have to mandate use of the QSL bureau system! Hey! What is fair is fair? Right? (Not gonna happen. You know that!) Actually, I like the relatively new concept that a special souvenir QSL is available to those who donate to the DXpedition. That is a novel approach for funding. Nobody loses. Having been on many DXpeditions myself, I am humbled by those who make serious contributions with their QSL card request. Please, let's not take more away from the personal touch that a QSL card brings to our hobby and to the pursuit of the DXCC (and other) awards. Postage rates go up. Everything goes up! Have you seen the cost of buying coax lately? This same argument is as old as the US postal system. How do I feel about LoTW? I think it is a superb place for all who have access to it in the not so rare countries to be able to confirm QSO's in order to bypass bureau expenses. I also have no problem with DXpeditions uploading their logs a year or two afterwards, but only if they choose to do so. But beyond that, it should NEVER be used in order to avoid having to deal with paper QSLs. I say that is unfair to those who do not (or cannot) use LoTW. QSLs cards are great fun! I love 'em! We gotta keep 'em! See ya' in the Pileups! 73! Bob Schenck, N2OO GO SJDXA! www.sjdxa.org Old Barney ARC! www.obarc.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Notarius W3WN Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:03 PM To: DX Chat Reflector; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up Pete, If the ARRL or DXCC desk were to mandate LotW posting for DXCC approval, you would hear even more screaming from a certain small but vocal element of the DX community. And frankly, mandating it would probably backfire on the League. I just can't see them doing it. The continual increase in postage is going to put even more pressure, though, for electronic or other non-postal confirmations. Which in many ways is sad... there's nothing like the actual feel of a QSL card... and I for one get a small kick out of the 1932 W3WN card I have sitting in the shack right now, it conveys a sense of history that a computer entry or .jpg file online never will. We're just going to have to figure out an alternative funding method for DXpeditions. One thought would be this... if I work your DXpedition, one of thousands of W3's... why not permit me to confirm electronically via your web site, and not only request your return QSL the same way, but cover the postage and a donation cost on-line via a PayPal or similar service? There are some pitfalls in this, of course -- the biggest one of which is determining what the minimum charge would be to cover postage and handling, closely followed by the need to make any amount above and beyond that purely and totally voluntary. So it's a thought, but it needs work. We can do better. We should. We will; we'll have to. 73, ron w3wn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter Dougherty Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DX-NEWS] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up At 02:33 PM 04/26/2007, John Warren wrote: Lou KE1F wrote; Is time to be modern and replace paper QSLs for QSO confirmation? Nope. I like browsing through my old-fashioned QSLs, and I'm quite willing to pay for that privilege. LOTW is fine as an option,
Re[2]: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up
Hello 'DX, BSN How do I feel about LoTW? BSN it should NEVER be used in order to avoid having to deal with BSN paper QSLs. It's not about avoiding to deal with paper QSLs, it's about encouraging (even mandating) people to use LoTW! BSN I say that is unfair to those who do not (or cannot) use LoTW. BSN QSLs cards are great fun! I love 'em! We gotta keep 'em! What about me, paper stuff is PAIN, not fun. I need a _confirmation_, not a _card_. -- 73...Art RX9TX http://rx9tx.qrz.ru Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up
At 08:33 AM 4/27/2007, Bob Schenck, N2OO wrote: The fairest way to do things is the way it is currently being done. LoTW is voluntary and it should always be such. AMEN!!! How I choose to handle my confirmations is no one else's business. I use LOTW, and like it, but for anyone to mandate it's use is pure BS. Gents, this is a HOBBY! The last time I checked, hobbies were for our enjoyment and participation, as much or little as we as individuals choose. Sheeeh! Ok, I'm off of my soap box(for now anyway). 73, Mike, W5UC age treachery will overcome youth skill http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/ Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
[DX-CHAT] LoTW versus paper, etc.
At 09:33 AM 04/27/2007, Bob Schenck, N2OO wrote: The fairest way to do things is the way it is currently being done. LoTW is voluntary and it should always be such. Many reasons. There will always be people who paper log. There will always be DXpeditions that paper log. There will always be DXers who do not own a computer and/or do not have access to the internet. Paper QSLs therefore should always be available. 1% agree, Bob. I love 'em under certain circumstances. I will ultimately put together an album containing the nicese QSL I get from each entity, and every all-time new one gets a card request (and donation, now that I'm down to DXpedition-only needed, hi hi), and I look forward to each one with bated breath. I can say with strict confidence after handling 3Y0X (and associated calls), and the recent VU7 operations, that paper QSLing produces a rather large funding source for the mega expensive DXpeditions. Actually, much larger than I had originally thought. Which is why I suggested the wait be a year to 18 months. It would absolutely be foolish to cut off your primary source of funding by mandating a quick upload to Logbook. But conversely, there are those who aren't into paper at all and need a couple of band-fills for DXCC challenge points, or need RTTY for a mode-award. Logbook works perfectly for guys like that. I just got 5 Q's confirmed for Vatican City on LoTW the other day. Had I known they were going to upload, I wouldn't have sent my paper QSL request for the 2 new bands and one new mode, because at this point, how many more identical-looking HV0A cards do I need? This will never be recovered if LoTW is utilized soon after a DXpedition is over. Never. Trust me on this. If DXpeditions were forced to utilize LoTW, it would definitely negatively affect the funding. And as such, it could very well make it more difficult to do DXpeditions, especially to the rarer hard to reach entities. If they were forced to upload IMMEDIATELY upon their return, I completely concur. Hence, a statement on the Website that all logs will be uploaded to Logbook of the World between one year and 18 months after the completion of the DXpedition. We're about a year or so out from Peter 1 now; how many direct QSL requests with donations are you receiving, on average, per week now? As for some sort of PayPal donation account tied to LoTW in order to fund DXpeditions, that would of course be in contradiction to DXCC rules that state that nobody can ever require payment for a QSL card. And it would not be fair at all. Yeah, I'd concur about having it tied to receiving confirmation. That would stink like a herring in August. Having prominent PayPal donation links all over the site, though, there's nothing wrong with that, IMHO. Just NOT on the QSL page! Please, let's not take more away from the personal touch that a QSL card brings to our hobby and to the pursuit of the DXCC (and other) awards. But at the same time, not everyone wants a card if they're chasing paper. As I posted last night, if I never see another card from certain parts of the world it will be far too soon. I have a lot of entities on 8 bands and three modes already; all I'm missing is 12m (I never had a WARC antenna during the last cycle). I really don't care about paper cards, just give me a hit on LoTW for those and that's all I ask. Next Swains operation, for example. I need 'em on 10 and 12 only. I also have no problem with DXpeditions uploading their logs a year or two afterwards, but only if they choose to do so. The problem with it being voluntary is that LoTW stays in its infancy and never matures. If you give people a reason or incentive to upload a log they will. We're, what, 3 years into the LoTW program right now? My LoTW hits are at an all-time record high of 16.7%. And only that high because most of my hits come from contests. I know that you (Bob) and many others love paper cards and relish what they mean both individually and collectively to the hobby and its past; but there's a growing number of techno-savvy users who just don't want the hassle (or the expense) of going the paper route, and having a viable alternative to paper QSLing for the major operations I think should be a requirement at some point down the line. Cheers, Peter, W2IRT Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW versus paper, etc.
On top of everything that has been said, there is no mention of the overhead that any DXpedition faces if immediately uploading logs to LoTW and that is busted calls. The upkeep to unsnarl this would be immense. I for one don't want that hassle so I NEVER upload logs for at least a year if then. If there is a busted call in a log and one is forced to use LoTW, which is quite awkward to use in my opinion, one corrects it in their DXpedition log and then uploads that one Q to LoTW. It doesn't replace the busted call, only resides alongside the busted call. This seems quite awkward to me. That's my 2 cents worth on top of every else's input. It is just that this perhaps had not been throught of when suggesting a DXpedition be forced to use LoTW. Before someone jumps on me with both feet, I know, there are not supposed to be busted calls in a log. Well let me point out one that always catches me. How about OK2BW and OK2BWK. That is a tough one as it could go either way. A busted call is a fact of life for a DXpedition, guaranteed! I do agree with the two previous posters general comments. Do not do away with paper QSLs! 73, Charlie.. Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: Re[2]: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up
Hello ART, Yes, You are right! But you need to pay it even more than an old QSL! In my opinion LoTW is another BULLS USE EQSL.CC ! Free ! BUT ARRL (BULLS...) DOES NOT COUNT IT !? DSW, Goran, 4N4AE/T98G Banja Luka - Original Message - From: Art RX9TX To: 'DX Chat Reflector' Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 4:08 PM Subject: Re[2]: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up Hello 'DX, BSN How do I feel about LoTW? BSN it should NEVER be used in order to avoid having to deal with BSN paper QSLs. It's not about avoiding to deal with paper QSLs, it's about encouraging (even mandating) people to use LoTW! BSN I say that is unfair to those who do not (or cannot) use LoTW. BSN QSLs cards are great fun! I love 'em! We gotta keep 'em! What about me, paper stuff is PAIN, not fun. I need a _confirmation_, not a _card_. -- 73...Art RX9TX http://rx9tx.qrz.ru Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org __ NOD32 (20070426) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up
RIGHT ! CHEERS! Goran, 4N4AE/T98G Banja Luka SE Europe - Original Message - From: Mike(W5UC) Kathy(K5MWH) To: 'DX Chat Reflector' Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up At 08:33 AM 4/27/2007, Bob Schenck, N2OO wrote: The fairest way to do things is the way it is currently being done. LoTW is voluntary and it should always be such. AMEN!!! How I choose to handle my confirmations is no one else's business. I use LOTW, and like it, but for anyone to mandate it's use is pure BS. Gents, this is a HOBBY! The last time I checked, hobbies were for our enjoyment and participation, as much or little as we as individuals choose. Sheeeh! Ok, I'm off of my soap box(for now anyway). 73, Mike, W5UC age treachery will overcome youth skill http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/ Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org __ NOD32 (20070426) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
[DX-CHAT] Paper vs LoTW
I only need 2 more countries and you can bet your bippie that I want the paper! However for the other awards (5BDXCC 5BWAS) with the increasing costs involved I specifically look for LoTW members on the cluster (I can do this with Logic 8) so I do not have to exchange paper. Last year at Dayton I was told by an RSGB/IOTA guy that the RSGB was in discussion with the ARRL to use LoTW for IOTA. This to me would be very worthwhile. Jack Hartley K4WSB / VP2MSB ARRL - QCWA - OOTC DXCC Honor Roll Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
[DX-CHAT] Automatic Antenna Tuners
Hello all. As I have one automatic antenna tuner for random wire (like the Icom AH-4 or Yaesu FC-40), I installed it along with an old aluminium vertical element, with about 5.5m (18ft) of length, to make a multiband vertical antenna. I did some searches on the internet about the same topic and came with some results. Comments say that this vertical antenna approach is not very different in terms of efficiency comparatively to a multiband vertical antenna from a commercial manufacturer. Being the only practical solution I have for my location, and as I'm in the process of testing and experimenting with it for further analysis, I would like to read some comments about this configuration from other users. Best regards, -- Sérgio Matias, CT2HMN Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up
Ah, but the DX manager wouldn't neccesarily have to. It is now possible to automate even the printing of the QSL cards, so that a DX Manager wouldn't have to sit there with thousands upon thousands of labels to process (just see the card I sent you for your C6A op as a perfect example). At the same time that one would order his QSL card(s), the op could also designate his desired mailing address, and that envelope too could be automatically printed -- and even automatically have the correct postage electronically affixed. So what would be left, the envelope stuffing? Betcha even that could be automated -- just find someone with access to a Pitney Bowes Documatch that could stuff cards into enveloes... There are a few DX stations already doing this, and the new Global QSL system is a variation on the theme (and it's run by hams who are commercial printers, from what I've gathered, so they have access to the right equipment) The catch, as you've correctly pointed out Pete, is that it opens the door to the potential of someone buying a QSL card without a valid contact. Or someone requiring a donation above and beyond reasonable return postage costs. But those are human, not technical problems. Figure out away around them, it could work. Maybe. Like I said before, it's a thought, but it needs refinement. 73 -Original Message- From: Peter Dougherty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; DX Chat Reflector; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up clip One thought would be this... if I work your DXpedition, one of thousands of W3's... why not permit me to confirm electronically via your web site, and not only request your return QSL the same way, but cover the postage and a donation cost on-line via a PayPal or similar service? There are some pitfalls in this, of course -- the biggest one of which is determining what the minimum charge would be to cover postage and handling, closely followed by the need to make any amount above and beyond that purely and totally voluntary. So it's a thought, but it needs work. Yeah, you could quickly devolve into a charging for QSL quagmire. Besides, can you imagine being a DX QSL manager having to look up 40,000 addresses, format them for your labels, print and stick 40,000 address labels before even stuffing the cards? No, I think for QSL direct, the old tried-and-true method is just fine, as is the buro. But if you just want a confirmation for an award, screw it...LoTW is the best way to go. Cheers, Peter, W2IRT Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
