Re: [DX-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S
I would have to respectfully disagree with Norm's comment that years ago intentional QRM was almost unheard of. It may not have been at the level that you seen nowadays, but it's always been there. I can still recall one evening in college (about 30 years ago... *sigh*), when a bunch of us were operating K3CR on 20 phone, when a small pile-up developed (don't ask me why, we weren't a special event, just a college club station, and a pretty active one at the time to boot). 5 minutes or so into the pileup, we got hit with carriers and various rude comments. Then someone else jumped on and informed the jammers that he'd called the local FCC monitoring station... and someone else taunted him back that the FCC wasn't going to do anything... and so on. As I remember, we eventually just gave up and QSY'd. I've had carriers and other QRM wipe either me or my intended QSO out in contests and DX chasing situations going as far back. Again, maybe not as often as you can see nowadays, but it happens. Why is it more prevalent today? For one thing, IMHO, sheer numbers. We have more hams today than we did 30 years ago, and as a result, while the percentage of lids has (hopefully) remained small, the actual number has risen. And when it takes only 1 or 2 ding dongs to create havoc... We also as a society seem to have grown more tolerant over the years of rude and obnoxious behavior. There are many reasons for that, too many to list here. Suffice, when rude behavior is tolerated in other parts of society, it gets reflected on the bands too. And in some situations, the testosterone (or equivalent) takes over. Sometimes, some of those win at any and all costs take no prisoners hams will do anything to make sure that THEY make the contact, and will sometimes prevent YOU from doing so -- so that they can claim I WON and, by default, you lost. It's against the true spirit that amateur radio once had and still aspires too... but it happens all too often. 73, ron wn3vaw From: Norm Gertz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri Apr 21 07:45:47 CDT 2006 To: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'WC7N' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'DX-CHAT' dx-chat@njdxa.org Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S My observations through the years is that the bad apples who generate QRM and engage in outrageous behaviour on the air are also comporting themselves in the same manner in their everyday lives. I disagree with one of the writers who alleged that most of the violators are old timers, extra class etc. Years ago intentional QRM was almost unheard of and operators did not have the luxury of split nor a VFO. You were limited to a handful of crystals. Perhaps newer is not always better in spite of the sophisticated equipment we now have. If you have a poor operator at the helm then you expect low grade performance. 73 Norm K1AA - Original Message - From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WC7N' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'DX-CHAT' dx-chat@njdxa.org Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:56 PM Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S Short of someone's life or limb being in danger, there is no excuse for transmitting on a DX station's frequency. Its hard to look someone in the eyes and firmly say what you're doing is wrong, and here's why. At least your friend had you to tell him; for all too many ops, there's no one. We reap what we sow... 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of WC7N Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 20:11 PM To: DX-CHAT Subject: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S Today I have been setting here in the Ham Shack, reading a book, because I couldn't hear any of the DX but did check frequencies. (Easy to do whey you are retired and an old F...) I was really amazed at the language I was hearing and first put it on the dumbing down of the ham radio license requirements but then remembered recently I was visiting a friend who has been a ham for probably 12-15 years, he was calling a dx station on CW and some body came up on freq and he went critical with the UP UP UP FU FU FU etc. I asked what are you doing. His answer I work hard all day and when I come home and have time to ham I don't have to put up with that s... Well maybe that is the problem now, not the dumbing down of the license but working hard to support a family, taking too much sh.. from the boss and just no patience when you get home. Rod WC7N Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message
Re: [DX-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can still recall one evening in college (about 30 years ago... *sigh*), when a bunch of us were operating K3CR on 20 phone, when a small pile-up developed (don't ask me why, we weren't a special event, just a college club station, and a pretty active one at the time to boot). 5 minutes or so into the pileup, we got hit with carriers and various rude comments. Then someone else jumped on and informed the jammers that he'd called the local FCC monitoring station... and someone else taunted him back that the FCC wasn't going to do anything... and so on. As I remember, we eventually just gave up and QSY'd. I was looking through some of my old logs recently and saw a notation for a DX station in the log (remember when you had to log your transmissions, even if you didn't work the station?). I forget the DX call at the moment but it was something fairly rare back in 1969. My note was Huge pileup + lids. I don't recall it vividly, but evidently it was something similar to what you hear today. 73, Zack W9SZ Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S
Years ago there was no DX Cluster network that announced to the world the instant the rare DX appeared and on what frequency. Also, in the old days, there was no implied guarantee of a QSO, or multiple band-mode QSOs, with each DXpedition. You had to tune, tune tune, be in the right place at the right time and hope propagation was favorable. Sometimes luck played a role, too. Now, if someone doesn't work a DXpedition, they start insulting the operators (or QRMing the operation) for ignoring their part of the world. Maybe we need to involve the cable TV industry in Dxpeditions to provide the technology for on-demand QSOs :.) 73, Barry W2UP On 21 Apr 2006 at 8:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would have to respectfully disagree with Norm's comment that years ago intentional QRM was almost unheard of. It may not have been at the level that you seen nowadays, but it's always been there. I can still recall one evening in college (about 30 years ago... *sigh*), when a bunch of us were operating K3CR on 20 phone, when a small pile-up developed (don't ask me why, we weren't a special event, just a college club station, and a pretty active one at the time to boot). 5 minutes or so into the pileup, we got hit with carriers and various rude comments. Then someone else jumped on and informed the jammers that he'd called the local FCC monitoring station... and someone else taunted him back that the FCC wasn't going to do anything... and so on. As I remember, we eventually just gave up and QSY'd. I've had carriers and other QRM wipe either me or my intended QSO out in contests and DX chasing situations going as far back. Again, maybe not as often as you can see nowadays, but it happens. Why is it more prevalent today? For one thing, IMHO, sheer numbers. We have more hams today than we did 30 years ago, and as a result, while the percentage of lids has (hopefully) remained small, the actual number has risen. And when it takes only 1 or 2 ding dongs to create havoc... We also as a society seem to have grown more tolerant over the years of rude and obnoxious behavior. There are many reasons for that, too many to list here. Suffice, when rude behavior is tolerated in other parts of society, it gets reflected on the bands too. And in some situations, the testosterone (or equivalent) takes over. Sometimes, some of those win at any and all costs take no prisoners hams will do anything to make sure that THEY make the contact, and will sometimes prevent YOU from doing so -- so that they can claim I WON and, by default, you lost. It's against the true spirit that amateur radio once had and still aspires too... but it happens all too often. 73, ron wn3vaw From: Norm Gertz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri Apr 21 07:45:47 CDT 2006 To: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'WC7N' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'DX-CHAT' dx-chat@njdxa.org Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S My observations through the years is that the bad apples who generate QRM and engage in outrageous behaviour on the air are also comporting themselves in the same manner in their everyday lives. I disagree with one of the writers who alleged that most of the violators are old timers, extra class etc. Years ago intentional QRM was almost unheard of and operators did not have the luxury of split nor a VFO. You were limited to a handful of crystals. Perhaps newer is not always better in spite of the sophisticated equipment we now have. If you have a poor operator at the helm then you expect low grade performance. 73 Norm K1AA - Original Message - From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WC7N' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'DX-CHAT' dx-chat@njdxa.org Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:56 PM Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S Short of someone's life or limb being in danger, there is no excuse for transmitting on a DX station's frequency. Its hard to look someone in the eyes and firmly say what you're doing is wrong, and here's why. At least your friend had you to tell him; for all too many ops, there's no one. We reap what we sow... 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of WC7N Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 20:11 PM To: DX-CHAT Subject: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S Today I have been setting here in the Ham Shack, reading a book, because I couldn't hear any of the DX but did check frequencies. (Easy to do whey you are retired and an old F...) I was really amazed at the language I was hearing and first put it on the dumbing down of the ham radio license requirements but then remembered recently I was visiting a friend who has been a ham for probably 12-15 years, he was calling a dx station on CW and some body came up on freq and he went critical with the UP UP UP FU FU FU etc. I asked what are you doing. His answer I work hard all day
Re: [DX-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S
Ron..my recollections of behaviour were of the time periods in the late 30's up until WWII.. After resumption of amateur radio activities following the war intentional QRM seemed to grow in frequency and in intensity. Vulgar language was unheard of in those early days. Poor operators in those days had chirpy signals, raw AC and over modulated. In spite of more primitive techniques the FCC appeared to be very vigilant and not many violators escaped that pink ticket. In self defense, some DX operations ran list operations by the numbers; not loved by one and all but it gave out many new countries to the multitude. Those that lose their cool and cause disruption are akin to those oddballs that exhibit road rage on the highways. I can also recall that now and then a DX station would pull the big switch when frustrated by these characters. Yes, 30 years ago there certainly was such behaviousr For at least 15 years the 14313 three ring circus was in full swing and you could hear almost anything vulgar on there all day long. To his everlasting credit Riley Hollingsworth cleaned up that mess and those perpertrators hopefully are now put to rest for good. God bless Amateur Radio and the good guys. 73 Norm K1AA - Original Message - From: Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'DX-CHAT' dx-chat@njdxa.org Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S Years ago there was no DX Cluster network that announced to the world the instant the rare DX appeared and on what frequency. Also, in the old days, there was no implied guarantee of a QSO, or multiple band-mode QSOs, with each DXpedition. You had to tune, tune tune, be in the right place at the right time and hope propagation was favorable. Sometimes luck played a role, too. Now, if someone doesn't work a DXpedition, they start insulting the operators (or QRMing the operation) for ignoring their part of the world. Maybe we need to involve the cable TV industry in Dxpeditions to provide the technology for on-demand QSOs :.) 73, Barry W2UP On 21 Apr 2006 at 8:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would have to respectfully disagree with Norm's comment that years ago intentional QRM was almost unheard of. It may not have been at the level that you seen nowadays, but it's always been there. I can still recall one evening in college (about 30 years ago... *sigh*), when a bunch of us were operating K3CR on 20 phone, when a small pile-up developed (don't ask me why, we weren't a special event, just a college club station, and a pretty active one at the time to boot). 5 minutes or so into the pileup, we got hit with carriers and various rude comments. Then someone else jumped on and informed the jammers that he'd called the local FCC monitoring station... and someone else taunted him back that the FCC wasn't going to do anything... and so on. As I remember, we eventually just gave up and QSY'd. I've had carriers and other QRM wipe either me or my intended QSO out in contests and DX chasing situations going as far back. Again, maybe not as often as you can see nowadays, but it happens. Why is it more prevalent today? For one thing, IMHO, sheer numbers. We have more hams today than we did 30 years ago, and as a result, while the percentage of lids has (hopefully) remained small, the actual number has risen. And when it takes only 1 or 2 ding dongs to create havoc... We also as a society seem to have grown more tolerant over the years of rude and obnoxious behavior. There are many reasons for that, too many to list here. Suffice, when rude behavior is tolerated in other parts of society, it gets reflected on the bands too. And in some situations, the testosterone (or equivalent) takes over. Sometimes, some of those win at any and all costs take no prisoners hams will do anything to make sure that THEY make the contact, and will sometimes prevent YOU from doing so -- so that they can claim I WON and, by default, you lost. It's against the true spirit that amateur radio once had and still aspires too... but it happens all too often. 73, ron wn3vaw From: Norm Gertz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri Apr 21 07:45:47 CDT 2006 To: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'WC7N' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'DX-CHAT' dx-chat@njdxa.org Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S My observations through the years is that the bad apples who generate QRM and engage in outrageous behaviour on the air are also comporting themselves in the same manner in their everyday lives. I disagree with one of the writers who alleged that most of the violators are old timers, extra class etc. Years ago intentional QRM was almost unheard of and operators did not have the luxury of split nor a VFO. You were limited to a handful of crystals. Perhaps newer is not always better in spite of the sophisticated equipment we now have. If you have a poor operator at the helm then you expect low grade performance. 73 Norm K1AA
RE: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S
Short of someone's life or limb being in danger, there is no excuse for transmitting on a DX station's frequency. Its hard to look someone in the eyes and firmly say what you're doing is wrong, and here's why. At least your friend had you to tell him; for all too many ops, there's no one. We reap what we sow... 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of WC7N Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 20:11 PM To: DX-CHAT Subject: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S Today I have been setting here in the Ham Shack, reading a book, because I couldn't hear any of the DX but did check frequencies. (Easy to do whey you are retired and an old F...) I was really amazed at the language I was hearing and first put it on the dumbing down of the ham radio license requirements but then remembered recently I was visiting a friend who has been a ham for probably 12-15 years, he was calling a dx station on CW and some body came up on freq and he went critical with the UP UP UP FU FU FU etc. I asked what are you doing. His answer I work hard all day and when I come home and have time to ham I don't have to put up with that s... Well maybe that is the problem now, not the dumbing down of the license but working hard to support a family, taking too much sh.. from the boss and just no patience when you get home. Rod WC7N Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S
Well, your friend's only been a ham for 12-15 years, so it could still be dumbing down. After all, he is a product of the V.E. licensing system and never had to take a test in front of an F.C.C. examiner and could just memorize the question pool to get his ticket. Unless, of course, your friend is just a jerk. In that case licensing requirements have nothing to do with his problem. Almost everybody works hard all day and most don't behave as you friend did. The real problem is that we don't have any respect for each other anyone. Part of that problem is the feeling by some people that because someone has been licensed for a certain length of time or upgraded at a certain time, that person has less worth than someone licensed before that point. It could be April 15, 2000 or it could be before 1984, when the V.E. system started. Or it could be a myriad of other points in time where some mythical standard was changed, like when the Dick Dash books became available or when the period of time you had to wait before retaking an exam was shortened. It really doesn't matter, because the real problem is the belief that we don't need to respect someone because of how, what kind or when they took a test. The reason we ought to respect someone should be based on what kind of ham they are, not when they got their ticket. As much as it might bother some people, a lot of hams who were licensed or upgraded after 2000 are pretty good hams, despite the fact that they didn't have to pass a 20 WPM CW test. Some are ignorant, but ignorance can be corrected pretty easily- lack of character and maliciousness are more difficult to deal with. 73, Scott, N9AA WC7N wrote: Today I have been setting here in the Ham Shack, reading a book, because I couldn't hear any of the DX but did check frequencies. (Easy to do whey you are retired and an old F...) I was really amazed at the language I was hearing and first put it on the dumbing down of the ham radio license requirements but then remembered recently I was visiting a friend who has been a ham for probably 12-15 years, he was calling a dx station on CW and some body came up on freq and he went critical with the UP UP UP FU FU FU etc. I asked what are you doing. His answer I work hard all day and when I come home and have time to ham I don't have to put up with that s... Well maybe that is the problem now, not the dumbing down of the license but working hard to support a family, taking too much sh.. from the boss and just no patience when you get home. Rod WC7N Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S
At 20:56 04/20/06, Dave wrote: Short of someone's life or limb being in danger, there is no excuse for transmitting on a DX station's frequency. Its hard to look someone in the eyes and firmly say what you're doing is wrong, and here's why. At least your friend had you to tell him; for all too many ops, there's no one. We reap what we sow... I was just listening to VU4 on 20 SSB as I was reading this thread when this southern-accented brainless wonder just started going apoplectic on the VU4's frequency telling guys off who were tuning up. I swear, I thought the guy was pop an aneurysm or something. The pile was 1about 15 kHz deep and pretty intense. Meanwhile, on 17 SSB and 20 CW two other VU4s were sitting and easy to pop one-call. Sigh. - Peter W2IRT Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S
Title: Message
I should have been more clear: "Short of someone's life or limb being in danger, there
is no excuse for intentionally transmitting on a DX station's
frequency."
Yes, I
have inadvertently missed the split button,despite havingbuilt
softwareto minimize that possibility.
73,
Dave,
AA6YQ
-Original Message-From: N7MAL
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 21:07
PMTo: Dave; 'WC7N'; 'DX-CHAT'Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT]
[dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S
And you're Mr. Perfect never accidentally forgot to push the split
button...
MAL
N7MALBULLHEAD CITY, AZhttp://www.ctaz.com/~suzyq/N7mal.htmhttp://geocities.com/n7mal/Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's
already tomorrow in Australia
- Original Message -
From:
Dave
To: 'WC7N' ; 'DX-CHAT'
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 0:56
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT]
Gentlemen HAM'S
Short of someone's life or limb being in danger, there is no
excuse fortransmitting on a DX station's frequency.Its hard to
look someone in the eyes and firmly say "what you're doing iswrong, and
here's why". At least your friend had you to tell him; for alltoo many
ops, there's no one. We reap what we
sow...
73, Dave,
AA6YQ-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf OfWC7NSent: Thursday,
April 20, 2006 20:11 PMTo: DX-CHATSubject: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT]
Gentlemen HAM'S Today I have been setting here in the Ham Shack,
reading a book, because I couldn't hear any of the DX but did check
frequencies. (Easy to do whey youare retired and an old
F...) I was really amazed at the language I was hearing and first
put it on the dumbing down of the ham radio license requirements but
then remembered recently I was visiting a friend who has been a ham for
probably 12-15 years, he was calling a dx station on CW and some body
came up on freq and he went critical with the UP UP UP FU FU FU
etc. I asked "what are you doing." His answer "I work hard
all day and when I come home and have time to ham I don't have to put up
with that s..."Well maybe that is the problem now, not the dumbing
down of the license but working hard to support a family, taking too
much sh.. from the boss and just no patience when you get
home.Rod WC7NSubscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ,
problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chatTo post
a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.orgThis is the
DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.orgSubscribe/unsubscribe,
feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chatTo post
a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.orgThis is the
DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org-- No
virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free
Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/319 - Release Date:
4/19/2006
Re: [DX-CHAT] [dx-CHAT] Gentlemen HAM'S
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, WC7N wrote: Well maybe that is the problem now, not the dumbing down of the license but working hard to support a family, taking too much sh.. from the boss and just no patience when you get home. Rod WC7N No, I think it's the way the society is going in general. Total absence of Rule of Law, doing it because others are getting away with it. (I wanted to say monkey see monkey do ...) 73, Zack W9SZ Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
